From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Wed Sep 18 14:26:52 1996 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:26:37 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #139 tariqas-digest Friday, 13 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 139 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fred Rice Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:42:31 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: 63 Earth Years Assalamu alaikum, On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Saint Download wrote: > Did not Mohammed himself ressurected? What are the hadiths on that. As far as I know, Muhammad (s.a.w.) was not resurrected.... maybe you are thinking about the "ascension" or the "night journey" ? Wassalam, Fariduddien ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:54:08 +0100 Subject: Loveing thyself what you see in someone else is often how you see yourself How you think of someone else is how you think of yourself The real task, the morning after, is to look in the mirror And still love thyself. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:33:28 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: Love thy Neighbor AsSalamu'alaikum w.w. The Hadis /Sunnah are absolutely important as guidance because the Quran is like the Constitution of Islam and the Hadis / Sunnah the supplementary .The Quran commands us to pray and the example of the Prophet in how to carry out the prayers is essential as guidance.Such sunnah of the Prophet which was acted out in every generation of Muslims from the time of the Prophet and further recorded is itself unassailable. The Prophet said " There will be narrators," he is reported to have said , " reporting Hadis from me, so judge by the Quran ; if a report agrees with the Quran , accept it, otherwise reject it. "My sayings do not abrogate the word of Allah, but the word of Allah can abrogate my saying " (Mishkat al Masabih) "I am no more than a human being,when I order you anything respecting religion receive it and when I order anything about the affairs of the world , I am no more than a man" (Mishkat Masabih) A report was not accepted under any of the following circumsances 1.If it was opposed to recognised historical facts. 2.If the reporter was Shi'a and the hadith was of the nature of an accusation against the Companions of the Holy Prophet or if the reporter was a Khariji and the hadith was of the nature of an accusation against a member of the Prophet's famlly.If however such a report was corroborated by independent testimony ,it was accepted. 3.If it was of such a nature that to know it and act upon it was incumbent upon all and it was reported by a single man. 4.If the time and the circumstances of its narration contained evidence of its forgery 5 If it was against reason or against the plain teachings of Islam 6 If it mentioned an incident which had it happened would have been known to and reported by large numbers , while as a matter of fact that incident was not reported by any one except the particular reporter 7 If it contained threatenings of heavy punishment for ordinary sins or promises of mighty reward for slight good deeds. 8 If it contained threatenings of heavy punishment for ordinary sins or promises of mighty reward for slight good deeds. 9 If it spoke of the reward of prophets and messengers to the doer of good. 10 If the narrator confessed that he fabricated the report. ( Shah Abdul Azis in Ujala Nafi'a) Alfred Guillaume points out "Inquiries were made as to the character of the narrators, whether they were morally and religiously satisfactory, whether they were tainted with heretical doctrines, whether they had a reputation for truthfulness and had the ability to transmit what they had themselves heard.Finally it was necessary that they should be competent witnesses whose testimony would be accepted in a court of civil law" At 19:59 9/12/96 +0800, you wrote: >Dearest Michael Moore,Salamu 'alaikum w.w > >Inspiration comes in a few forms >1)Firstly we have the Immutable Quran >2)Then we have the Sayings of the Prophet which are not the revelation of >Allah brought down to the Prophet s.a.w.This is part of the Sunnah recorded >in Hadis .Sunnah also includes a fi'l an action or practice of his or a >taqrir -his silent approval of the action of practice of another. >3)Then in between the Quran and the Hadis are words called Hadis Qudsi for >example" My earth and my heavens do not contain me but what contains me is >the heart of a believer" >Hadis Qudsi is the Message of Allah but in the words of the Prophet whereas >the Quran is the Message of Allah and in words chosen by Allah s.w.t. >Whereas every single part of the Quran to the very last dot is perfectly >authenntic and Allah in the Quran promises that He will protect the Quran >which is the testimony of history itself ,Hadis has different levels of >authenticity from those which are mutawatir which are of the highest >authenticity and to the daif which are weak hadis but which are not >necessarily false. >Ilal Liqq.I'll be back Insha'Allah. > >At 23:58 9/11/96 +0800, you wrote: >>Assalamu 'alaikum w.w. >>Some twenty years ago or more I used to spend a lot of time at the local >>library reading books written mostly by Christian missionaries against >>Islam.Although I could not instinctively accept the terrible slanders >>against the Prophet,I had to spend years to resolve the issues.And in the >>process I had to really do deep research on my own on the Life of the >>Prophet and in the process failed my LLB examinations which were far far >>less interesting.Some of the misunderstandings are still cropping up and >>although I have dealth with them before , the detailed answers have to be >>researched again and again for the benefit of others. >>To understand the Life of the Prophet in detail I would recommend the >>reading of Shibli Numani's Seeratun Nabi which has been translated by Fazlur >>Rahman and by the Pakistan Historical Society.Shibli Numani was not only the >>Shamsul Ulama or the Sun among the Religious Scholars he was also a >>historian.In it are also enumerated principles of verification of Hadis. >>Please note that apart from the Quran there is not one book which does not >>contain inaccuracies and one has to use reason , logic , history and the >>criterion of the Quran as the yardstick when going through the huge corpus >>of hadis literature.Ayesha said that "his morals are the Quran" but even >>here scholarship is needed. >>Sometimes even a companion would misunderstand what the Prophet said.Abu >>Huraira r.a >>said that the Prophet s.a.w. said that three things may be affected by bad >>luck: a woman, a house and a horse.Yet Ayesha quoted the very opposite: The >>Prophet said that the Jews are alienated from spiritual grace for believing >>that bad luck can be with 3 things : a woman, a house and a horse.She said >>that Abu Huraira came into the house when the Prophet had already some some >>words and he missed the first part of the saying. >>Sometimes it can really be very trickly as illustrated by my understanding >>of "It is more difficult for a rich man to enter heaven than a camel to >>enter into the eye of a needle" Michael Moore gave another reason for >>believing in the correctness of the tradition which view I have also heard >>before. >>In every area of religion there is gross misunderstanding and this should be >>understand because all the forces of evil are arrayed ( or is it arraigned) >>against any Prophet. >>"Punishment for Apostasy in Islam " is a classic of a research work on gross >>misunderstanding of the Prophet's decision.It was written by a former Chief >>Justice of Pakistan S.A.Rahman.Hammudah Abdalati's Family Structure of Islam >>removes other types of misunderstanding . >>I have to go now although I have to continue sometime later..... >>At 10:31 9/10/96 -0700, you wrote: >>>Zainuddin Ismail wrote: >>>-snip- >>>> The hadis quoted by Moore is extracted from a book of unedited hadis.This is >>>> the danger .Always revert to the unassailable , incontrovertible Quran when >>>> doubts cross your mind. >>> >>>Does not the Quran say that every word from the Prophet's lips are >>>Quran? >>>If so, then we need to know what he said. >>> >>>> I have more to say on this subject. Brother Moore, look into your heart and >>>> question why you brought up this clearly false hadis >>> >>>Why are you questioning my motives? Perhaps we both need to do some >>>looking. >>> >>> Since I took shahada less than a year ago, >>>I am still very much learning. I am not a scholar by any means. I only >>>wish to know the external arguments used against ISLAM and how to >>>respond >>>to them. There are those who will question me and I want to know the >>>best way to respond. I don't believe that "Look into your heart" is >>>sufficient to combat the enemies of Islam. If "look into your heart" >>>was good enough, then the Prophet would have just said "look into your >>>heart, you don't need a Quran and hadiths". >>> >>> >>>> which no Muslim scholar >>>> worth his salt qould accept.Remember we are dealing with someone whom many >>>> believe to be the Beloved of God. >>> >>>Yes, and those same people see nothing wrong with the Prophet's actions >>>as >>>described in these false hadiths. The fact that he is the Beloved of >>>Allah >>>should be all the more reason why I would want to defend him against >>>these false hadiths. >>> >>>> I pray with all other believers here, that Allah our Lord, >>>> Cherisher,Nourisher and Sustainer will put solace into your wounded >>heart.Salam. >>>> >>>Thank you, I will take all the prayers I can get. >>> >>>YOU are seeing a wounded heart, so I will pray for you too. >>> >>>Salaams >>>-- >>>Michael J. Moore >>> >> >> > > ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:18:32 -0700 Subject: Biographical stuff Hello, First, Thanks Zainuddin for talking about ways to tell if hadiths are acceptable. I hope someday to find my way to the same vision of the Prophet(saws) that you have. But for now it is back to basics for me. I am still working on my salaat. My study is from the 'KITABUS-SALAAT' Published by the Young Men's Muslim Association. I believe that this is the Hanafi School. It is very complicated and consists of about 90 pages. Right now I am in the process of memorizing dua-e qunoot which is required for the witr prayer of isha. Once memorized, I will have enough suras and duas to make valid salaat for the whole day. But even after that, I feel that I must memorize at least a few more suras just to add variety because it is Makrooh (reprehensible) to fix ones salaat. There are so many interesting little rules for example: It is Waajib to recite both Surah Fatiha plus a Surah or some verses of the Quaran in every raka't of Witr, Sunnat and Nafl Salaat. Salaams, - -- Michael J. Moore ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 02:07:34 -0700 Subject: TARIQAS Shath Dear friends on the path to Love, A book I'm reading "Words of ecstasy in sufism" by Carl W Ernest. Things that we said or posted to this list sometimes I think was misunderstood by others. This reminds me of the sayings by sufi masters of the past, like Hallaj, whose sayings and statements create controversies and even killings, because the listeners do not really LISTEN to other, but only listen to what they wanted to listen. A brother or a sister in list might said something very BEAUTIFUL, but because of the failure to understand the "ecstasy" when the words were said, those words were construed as INFIDEL as what happened to Hallaj and others. salam maarof ps Thanks for the loving personal post. ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 02:21:05 -0700 Subject: TARIQAS Muhammad in Dream Fred Rice wrote: > > Assalamu alaikum, > > On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Saint Download wrote: > > > Did not Mohammed himself ressurected? What are the hadiths on that. > > As far as I know, Muhammad (s.a.w.) was not resurrected.... maybe you are > thinking about the "ascension" or the "night journey" ? > > Wassalam, > > Fariduddien There's another different issue here about Muhammad (saw) (in one's dream). The Prophet said (recorded in hadith) that whoever dreams of meeting him (Muhammad), then that dream is true. Now, can that meeting in dream considered "hadith", i.e sayings and deeds of the Prophet. If this the case, then "hadith" as we know it is not limited but keep on compiling, because there are people meeting the Prophet (saw) in dream even in present day. maarof ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 02:53:46 -0700 Subject: HALLAJ devotion in prayer Ibn Fatik came to visit Hallaj, who was reciting the Quran at full length. When Hallaj has finished, he returned to Ibn Fatik, laughing and said, "Don't you see that I pray to try to please Him? But he who thinks that he has pleased Him has put a price on His pleasure". Then Hallaj laughed again, and recited these verses: When a youth's ardent love reaches perfection, and ecstasy makes him to forego union, Then he attests in truth what love attests to him -- the prayer of lovers is just infidelity note: Absorption in ritual prayer is attachment to intermediaries that obscure the realities of spirit; Hallaj here blames himself for placing too much importance on the EFFECT OF PRAYER, as the youth in the poem in the thought of his own love -- all deviation from the Beloved is infidelity. - --from Words of Esctasy in Sufism (C W Ernest) ------------------------------ From: Craig Johannsen Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:55:03 -0700 Subject: Re: TARIQAS Muhammad in Dream Hi Maarof, You wrote: > .... there are people meeting the > Prophet (saw) in dream even in present day. It would be interesting to hear what their experience was, if you know anyone personally who has had such a dream or if they have written about it. Wa salaam, Craig ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:13:36 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: TARIQAS Muhammad in Dream Salamu 'alaikum w.w. Prophethood (Nabuwwah) has come to an end and what remains (after Muhammad )is mubashirah (true visions) which amounts to one-fortieth of prophecy.According to Ibn Arabi, if one sees Muhammad in a dream and he is as described in the hadis then it is true that one has seen him.However what he says cannot be accepted as hadis.Hadis ended when Prophet Muhammad died.At the most it is a personal message for one.Salam again.Please read the famous book on Dreams by Ibn Seerin .It is available in large Islamic bookshops.Dreams are mentioned five times in the Quran.As personal guidance they are significant.But there are strict rules.The book is very helpful . At 02:21 9/13/96 -0700, you wrote: >Fred Rice wrote: >> >> Assalamu alaikum, >> >> On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Saint Download wrote: >> >> > Did not Mohammed himself ressurected? What are the hadiths on that. >> >> As far as I know, Muhammad (s.a.w.) was not resurrected.... maybe you are >> thinking about the "ascension" or the "night journey" ? >> >> Wassalam, >> >> Fariduddien > >There's another different issue here about Muhammad (saw) (in one's >dream). The Prophet said (recorded in hadith) that whoever dreams of >meeting him (Muhammad), then that dream is true. > >Now, can that meeting in dream considered "hadith", i.e sayings and deeds >of the Prophet. If this the case, then "hadith" as we know it is not >limited but keep on compiling, because there are people meeting the >Prophet (saw) in dream even in present day. > > >maarof > ------------------------------ From: Imaan Shivani Joshi Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:12:50 +0800 (SST) Subject: Re: TARIQAS Muhammad in Dream > > Hi Maarof, > > You wrote: > > .... there are people meeting the > > Prophet (saw) in dream even in present day. > > It would be interesting to hear what their experience was, > if you know anyone personally who has had such a dream > or if they have written about it. > as salaamu 'alaikum It is reported that the prophet Muhammad, [saw] said that if one of us should dream of him, it would be a good sign etc, because even though satan can imitate others, he can't imitate the prophet[saw]; the problem arises however, because we do not know what he looks like; sure, from some vague descriptions, we know that he was of medium height, that he had a beard, that he was handsome..but these are generally changing perceptions; what may be handsome then may not be so now...so I for one, would take this with a pinch of salt we do not know what he looks like, and hence...and there are many sufi stories, whereby even sufis, were deceived by satsn posturing as Allah[swt][ bright light etc]...so how can we be sure? It is my honest opinion that perhaps that was meant for those pple who had actually lives at the time when they were able to see him. wasalaam. ------------------------------ From: yemimt@singnet.com.sg (Cresent Clinic & Surgery -Dr. M. Tahir) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:54:37 +0800 (SST) Subject: Re: Love thy Neighbor Assalamu 'alaikum w.w. Like Zainuddin, I also had read a lot of books against Islam written by Christians including Orientalists. I realised with sadness that there is a massive propaganda against Islam and against the Prophet, much more so than against the other major religions like Hinduism or Budhism. It seems to me such a great pity, given that there is so much in common between the two religions. In fact Muslims believe that there is no distinction between the religions preached by the various prophets from time to time, since they were all sent by Allah. Whatever way one wants to interpret the word Parakletos in the new testament, the fact remains that the last Prophet, is responsible for the fact that 1.4 billion people on this earth, as Muslims, are glorifying the name of Jesus. Like Jesus,the Prophet came to confirm and reiterate the teachings of the prophets before him. Muslims are sometimes potrayed as backward and barbaric with regard to punishment for crimes,eg the gruesome punishments in the Hudud laws, for theft or adultary for instance. In the New Testamet, Jesus in a similar vein, states in his Sermon on the Mount, that if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; if your eye ... pluck it out; better this than that your whole body be cast into the fire. Before Zainudin jumps on me, let me hasten to add that I believe that the threat of punishments in the Hudud laws are meant more as (or solely as) a deterrant than anything else. The burden of proof on the part of the accusers are so much more than in English law. For adultery, if I am not mistaken, four adult and trustworthy witnessess are required to actually witness the act before a person can be accused of adultery, a practically impossible condition. Similarly Jesus Christ was, I believe,just emphasizing the gravity of the offences of stealing and fornication etc, rather than expecting his followers to literally cut off their hands or pluck out their eyes. My initial bitterness towards all the criticism against Islam is being mellowed considerably, Alhamdulillah, after reading all the diferent views expressed in Tariqas. I realise that each one of us sincerely wishes to know God, and "the ways to God are as many as the breaths of mankind" M Tahir Zainuddin Ismail wrote >Some twenty years ago or more I used to spend a lot of time at the local >library reading books written mostly by Christian missionaries against >Islam.Although I could not instinctively accept the terrible slanders >against the Prophet,I had to spend years to resolve the issues. >In every area of religion there is gross misunderstanding and this should be >understand because all the forces of evil are arrayed ( or is it arraigned) >against any Prophet. ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:49:00 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: TARIQAS Muhammad in Dream Assalamu alaikum, On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, maarof wrote: > There's another different issue here about Muhammad (saw) (in one's > dream). The Prophet said (recorded in hadith) that whoever dreams of > meeting him (Muhammad), then that dream is true. > > Now, can that meeting in dream considered "hadith", i.e sayings and deeds > of the Prophet. If this the case, then "hadith" as we know it is not > limited but keep on compiling, because there are people meeting the > Prophet (saw) in dream even in present day. I know about the hadith you are referring to, that if you see the Prophet (s.a.w.) in a dream, then that is true - Shaytan cannot take his image. However, I think such a dream would be different from hadith, because hadiths are in general teachings for everyone, while if you see a dream with the Prophet (s.), it probably pertains only to you. I once met an Australian woman who was in her 60s or so. She had had a recurring dream over about 10 years where she kept seeing Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.). Eventually, she became a Muslim herself. Wassalam, Fariduddien ------------------------------ From: Saint Download Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:46:44 -0800 Subject: Re: TARIQAS Muhammad in Dream Yes I did shortly after joining the Nimatullahi Sufi Order. Baraq was in the dream to. What does it mean dreaming of Him? James ------------------------------ From: Asim Jalis Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 23:04:38 CDT Subject: Desire What is the cure for sexual desire? Asim ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:33:15 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: TARIQAS Muhammad in Dream On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Saint Download wrote: > Yes I did shortly after joining the Nimatullahi Sufi Order. Baraq was in > the dream to. > > What does it mean dreaming of Him? Assalamu alaikum, James, In general, regarding your dreams, it is best to consult your Shaykh.... to my understanding, if someone gives you a wrong interpretation of your dream, it can cause more harm than good, so it is best, to my understanding, to tell your dreams only to those who know how to understand and interpret them for you. Wassalam, Fariduddien ------------------------------ From: Dr Syed Rashid Ali Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:09:23 +0400 Subject: Re: TARIQAS Muhammad in Dream Fred Rice wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Saint Download wrote: > > > Yes I did shortly after joining the Nimatullahi Sufi Order. Baraq was in > > the dream to. > > > > What does it mean dreaming of Him? > > Assalamu alaikum, James, > > In general, regarding your dreams, it is best to consult your Shaykh.... > to my understanding, if someone gives you a wrong interpretation of > your dream, it can cause more harm than good, so it is best, to my > understanding, to tell your dreams only to those who know how to > understand and interpret them for you. > > Wassalam, > > Fariduddien Dear Br/Sisters Assalamo alaikum There are certain priciples to be followed regarding dreams. 1) It should be mentioned to someone knowledgable, a well wisher and truthful person, preferably one's Shaikh, as Br Farid has pointed out. According to a Hadith of Holy prophet SAAW, the interpretation of dream is suspended untill someone gives an intrepetation; then whatever the interpretation has been given, usually the events take that course. Hence the need for a knowledgable person and a well wisher. 2) When you are relating it for the first time, it should be after the sunrise and before the sunset. 3) If you wake up due to a bad dream, according to the Hadith, turn your side recite La hawla wala quoowata illa billah al-'ali ul 'azeem, spit three times over your left shoulder, DO NOT RELATE IT TO ANYONE and the Holy Prophet SAAW reassured us that no harm will come from it InshaAllah. I hope this will help. Wassalam Rashid - -- **************************************************************************** "YOU CAN'T BE FAITHFUL UNLESS YOU LOVE ME MORE THAN YOUR FATHER, YOUR SON & ALL MANKIND."(Sahih Bukhari) *************************************************************************** AHMADIYYA/QADIANI MOVEMENT IN ISLAM ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A MOVEMENT OF REFORM OR A PIOUS FRAUD IN THE NAME OF ISLAM? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Find out the facts. Visit our Anti Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam and Khatme Nabuwwat Home Pages at: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.nl-marketing.com/netlink/rashid/anti_ahmadiyya.html http://www.nl-marketing.com/netlink/KhatmeNabuwwat/ **************************************************************************** For further querries and literature in various languages, please write to us: email: rasyed@emirates.net.ae Dr Syed Rashid Ali Dr Ahmad Oudeh P O Box 11560 President, AAMI for Europe and America Dibba AlFujairah P O Box 1056 United Arab Emirates Ronninge 14421 T No (9719) 444022 Sweden Fx No(9719) 442846 (Ex-President of Ahmadiyya Movement in Sweden) ######################################################## BEWARE OF THE EVIL OF AHMADIYYA MOVEMENT AGAINST ISLAM ######################################################## THERE ARE 12 MILLION QADIANIS/AHMADIS ALL OVER THE WORLD. 99% CONVERTS FROM ISLAM! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ In recent times: 50,000 Muslims in Mali 24,000 Muslims in Ivory Coast 100% Muslims in Burkina Faso and Angola 100,000 Bosnian Refugees 45,000 Albanian Muslims Unspecified No. in Russian Muslim Republics and many more.... HAVE LOST THEIR FAITH TO THE QADIANI ONSLAUGHT ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ PRIME REASON FOR CONVERSION: ============================ IGNORANCE ABOUT THE EVIL DESIGNS OF AHMADIYYA MOVEMENT AGAINST ISLAM AND NOT IGNORANCE FROM ISLAM! #################################################################### SAVE YOUR FELLOW BROTHERS'/SISTERS' FAITH MAKE THEM AWARE OF THIS PIOUS FRAUD IN THE NAME OF ISLAM YOU OWE IT TO THEM Jazakallaho Khairan. ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #139 *****************************