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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 93
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Re: Why Avon changed
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #92
Re: [B7L] Dream writers/Change of career
Re: [B7L] Re: Why Avon changed
[B7L] top ten requests
Re: [B7L] top ten requests
Re: [B7L] top ten requests
[B7L] About Paul Darrow
Re: [B7L] Why Avon changed
[B7L] A site of possible interest
Re: [B7L] Dream writers/directors/guest stars for B7
Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids
Re: [B7L] top ten requests
Re: [B7L] On Matters PD
[B7L] Redemption
Re: [B7L] Redemption
[B7L] where is everybody ?
Evil Characters (was Re: [B7L] A site of possible interest)
Re: [B7L] Dream writers/directors/guest stars for B7
Evil Characters (was Re: [B7L] A site of possible interest)
Re: [B7L] top ten requests
Re: [B7L] top ten requests
Re: [B7L] Dream writers/directors/guest stars for B7
RE: [B7L] Why Avon changed
Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:58:57 GMT0BST
From: "VJC" <csm80316@port.ac.uk>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Why Avon changed
Message-ID: <37248AC1D8D@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk>
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> (Reminds me of INT Avon, loyally chaste to the memory of one-and-only
> Anna. While EST Servalan (to quote the filk) "... had Catholic tastes, a
> Star Captain or two; Once a Space Admiral with most of his crew... There
> was Travis, Carnell, Jarvik who all - Succumbed to my charms; We had
> quite a ball.")
>
I've always believed this concept. To paraphrase the DWAS Tardis 35
years in telefantasy, Avon unlike other SF heroes didn't have
numerous love interests ('cept possibly Orac! Oh, and Servalan) this
is why I personally find it ridiculous that so many fan writers
characterise him as being into S+M.
Other than the kissing in spite, the only reference to this would
come in the much later (and fanfic influenced) T7FC by Barry Letts,
and the less said about that the better.
Vick.
'Idealism is a wonderful thing, all you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use.'
Kerr Avon. (B7 ep 52 'Blake')
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:29:31 -0000
From: "lorraine ellard" <lorrainej22@atherstone24.swinternet.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #92
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Date: 08 March 1999 08:13
Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #92
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 01:30:27 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dream writers/Change of career
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Pherber@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/5/99 2:02:03 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> csm80316@port.ac.uk writes:
>
> > I've often thought thet Paul would likewise make a great replacement
> > for McGoohan in the Prisoner. (Isn't Mel Gibson up for the film
> > version? Rotten choice!!) Paul has the right accent (no accent!) the
> > right age (no seriously, to be credible, the part suits an older man)
> > and the right attitude. What does anybody think?
>
> OOhhh! What a good idea! Mel Gibson is *all* wrong for that part - Paul
> would be *perfect*! It's really too bad that the Hollywood mentality will
> insist on a major name in the film version. So who do you fancy for No. 2?
> Jackie? Or Gareth? (Or maybe both?)
Oh please, not Jackie. She's a marvelous actress, but I just can't imagine her
and Paul on screen together without some -how shall I say- erotic? undertones,
which *really* don't belong in The Prisoner. Gareth would be nice. Or Stephen
Greif. Maybe Patrick Stewart? Oh, let's go for broke -- Derek Jacobi!
Having said that, and admitting that Hollywood ruins all the best stuff, let's
not count Mel Gibson out completely. Sometimes he is really surprisingly good.
It's not his fault that he was cursed with good looks.
Mistral -- anyone for a spider?
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:04:38 -0000
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Why Avon changed
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Pat said -
>One would expect the Extraverts to blather on at length and the
>Introverts to toss a pithy remark and run. (Much like Blake does,
>delivering long, rabble-rousing litanies to all. Much as Avon does,
>flinging at Blake a few words that speak volumes, and then exiting to
>hide.)
>
>But no. Quite the opposite.
I think it's because introverted list members are more interested in their
own private ideas, and so they are more interested in expressing those ideas
in their complete complexity. Extrovert posters are more interested in the
effect their posts have on others, so they want to keep them short to get a
response.
Hmmm. I think immature extroverts tend to witter on at great length (yes, I
know I do it from time to time :-) until they learn that it shuts other
people up, so it's counter-productive. In this respect is Blake immature?
Does he really talk a whole lot more than Avon?
Alison (still virused)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:59:37 -0000
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] top ten requests
Message-ID: <003b01be694c$ac06a460$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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Somebody on another SF list tells me that the BBC has a top ten of most
requested repeats, and B7 is number 3.
This is completely disgraceful! If we were a serious fandom it would be
number 1.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:42:22 +0200
From: "422ami" <422ami@nt52.parliament.bg>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] top ten requests
Message-Id: <199903081040.LAA00727@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
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Alison Page wrote:
> Somebody on another SF list tells me that the BBC has a top ten of most
> requested repeats, and B7 is number 3.
And which one suppose to be the _most_ requested!?!
The Bulgarian Hellen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 02:47:19 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] top ten requests
Message-ID: <36E3AAB6.4FCE0AAC@ptinet.net>
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Alison Page wrote:
> Somebody on another SF list tells me that the BBC has a top ten of most
> requested repeats, and B7 is number 3.
>
> This is completely disgraceful! If we were a serious fandom it would be
> number 1.
Depends. A) What were #1 and #2? and B) Some of us are Americans- why
should they listen to us?
Then again, if B7 is really #3, why don't they air it? I think it must be
easier for us here in the states -- if we really want to see it aired, we
just have to raise the money for our local PBS station to rent and
broadcast it -- about $30,000 US for my local PBS to run all four series, 1
ep per week for a year. I don't suppose the BBC would let the British fans
raise part of the cost? A big undertaking, I know, but it might be
worthwhile to get some new fans to help keep the fandom growing and vital
(new blood y'know - does that make us mutoids?)
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:35:20 GMT0BST
From: "VJC" <csm80316@port.ac.uk>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] About Paul Darrow
Message-ID: <374E44B664D@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk>
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> Put more plainly, this is a question I would love to ask PD if ever
> I got to meet him: How much of Avon is PD and how much of PD is
> Avon?
I got to ask him this when I was writing for a fanzine, via a mail
interview. Unfortunatly, as he was about to appear in the first run of
Guards! Guards! he couldn't answer personally, although I got a series
of very nice letters from his wife, Janet Lees Price. Having been
married to him (at the time) for 33 years, probably closer to 35 now,
she thought herself more than qualified to answer my questions. In her
words, Paul is nothing like Avon. He is not cynical in the least and
likes to think the best of people. She confirmed that Avon will always
be a favorite role of Paul's, but since the death of close friend and
B7 creator Terry Nation, he sees it as the end of an era.
> Can anyone share any impressions you have of Paul the man based on
> any experiences you may have had with him as a fan....meetings at
> cons, or hearing interviews, reading anything he's written, or just
> pure and honest speculation?
He isn't an INTP!!
My impressions of Paul are based on long-term interest and one
meeting. I tend to see him as a much more sensitive person than Avon.
This was confirmed in meeting (for personal reasons I will not go
into) I have witnessed him close to tears, which is a side of him few
would credit him with having.
While researching for a documentary a couple of years ago, I spoke to
an associate producer who had worked with him previously who described
him as a 'tyrant'.
I recently spoke to Michael 'Mr Bronson' Sheard, Section Leader Klegg
in Powerplay, who considers Paul to have 'let himself go', an opinion
which I'm inclined to agree with. He smokes continually, and almost
seems nervous. He has also gained quite a bit of weight, but is losing
it now.
I was apprehensive about meeting Paul, based on what I'd heard about
him, as I had a portfolio of B7 artworks including a less than
flattering Avon characature. I did, after being personally introduced,
end up showing it to Paul and he was quite impressed and not at all
offended. I found him to be very polite and softly spoken, not as
bombastic as I had imagined and very, very genuine. Of course, he
still has Avon's voice and stance, but his pattern of speech is quite
different. He spent most of the evening slipping into Clint Eastwood
mode to make people laugh. He doesn't seen the type to step out of
line, and I didn't even witness him kiss, or make any other form of
contact with fans. He however, does not seem to avoid eye contact.
> I've just been getting into the B7 audio tapes: Have listened to
> Sheelagh Well's tape of Paul with Jaqui called "Elements." My
> impression of him is as a very articulate, very intelligent person
> who takes himself and his work as an actor quite seriously. I also
> see a fascination with some bits of American Culture -- John Wayne
> and Westerns (not to mention Elvis!) which I as an American don't
> find particularly interesting or complex intellectually.
I haven't heard this tape, but I have read the 'Paul Darrow writes..'
sections in the old Marvel B7 magazines. He seems to be quite proud of
his knowledge of film, which as a former film student I find rather
amusing. However, some of his assumptions and misinterpretations of B7
made me gasp in horror, as did his apparent chauvanism. According to a
DWB interview he belongs to the old John Wayne school where men are
men and women are women! More worrying is the suggestion that the only
B7 woman he really approved of was Meegat! And he liked Power!!! If
you read The Eye, you'll find this POV hasn't changed.
> Still, I was struck by both his penchant as a pretty humorous
> storyteller and by the calm authority he seems to exude in the tapes
> themselves. I mean, he just starts speaking quietly amid several
> other people's conversations in that wonderful voice grown even
> richer with age, and people shut up in mid-sentence and give him the
> floor. (I especially noticed this in relation to Gareth Thomas, who
> seemed hardly on the "Elements" tape to get a word in edgewise at
> various points.)
He has got a lovely voice, and I really wish I could exude that type
of authority. That dosen't really mean that what he says is
always correct, but his sense of humour strikes me as rather perverse
and a bit sick at times, so I wouldn't put him past purposefully
winding people up.
> So much for my impression. Still, my question points to this: The
> subtlety in which PD captures the pain and alienation, the emotional
> withdrawing, the well-perfected mask of coldness belied of course by
> the most intense ability to feel, to love others unconditionally and
> to the point of utter self- sacrifice.....how did PD manage to
> project all that without projecting aspects of himself as well?
>
> What do you all think?
>
> And while we're at it, what's the scoop on his book "Avon: A
> Terrible Aspect"?
I have no interest in reading it, as I do not think that Paul ever
really understood Avon. (at that time) I know how odd that sounds,
but playing the character and being able to stand back and study the
character are completly different things. Paul's other novel Queen:
The Eye is so bad, I sent it to a friend for a birthday present. He
still hasn't read it!!
Vick
'Idealism is a wonderful thing, all you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use.'
Kerr Avon. (B7 ep 52 'Blake')
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:53:54 GMT0BST
From: "VJC" <csm80316@port.ac.uk>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Avon changed
Message-ID: <377340D6D6C@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk>
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> Many studies of both humans and chimps show how one's place in the
> pecking order affects their testosterone levels. The big old silverback
> gorilla gets all the gal gorillas and lords it over the band. Until he
> is deposed by a young hotshot, that is. Then his agression levels
> plunge. The new king of the hill enjoys a great rise in testosterone
> levels.
>
I don't really agree with this, although I can tell where you're
coming from. It's all a bit too Freudian / Darwinian for my
Jungianisms.
Avon was to quote Blake, a civilised man, and I don't personally
believe that he enjoyed the command experience enough for your theory
to work. True, he became rather more aggressive as the series
progressed, but as a poor leader, this was all the power that he had.
The only *person* who Avon could relate to was Orac, the only other
Rational, and the only remaining intuative.
As an introvert and a loner, Avon had a problem giving orders in a
way that people would feel obliged to carry them out, rather than
commanded too, this points to his lack of self-confidence. He was not
a captain, but he was the best forward planner of the crew, hence he
assumed this role. The others found it hard to understand Avon, and
he found it hard to communicate with them, so this is where the
others got the (often true) impression that he left them in the dark.
So lord over them, in a way, he did. But he didn't enjoy it.
They became nothing but necessary components in the running of the
ship. Avon was never one to claim knowledge of things he didn't
understand or couldn't do, so he was thankful to be able to trust
their competance even though he didn't regard them as friends.
Avon had known for a long time to hone himself for dissapointment and
never to get too attached to anyone or thing.
On the plus side, I suppose he never felt the 'loneliness of
command'. Personally, I hate being in command of a group, though
manipulating select individuals has certain merits! I mentioned
before in the MBTI posts the inclination (this observation comes from
personal experience) of the INTx to use people as nothing more than
conduits for information, or to carry out the INTx's complex theory,
which otherwise would never be put into practice. Interestingly, PD's
interview on T7FC shows that Avon only treated the others as
commodities, e.g. someone to fly the ship - INTP's (from personal
experience) are not good drivers - thinking tends to get in the way
of awareness of surroundings!! Sensates do the donkey work, Rationals
do the thinking.
> Likewise, the losers - including former top dogs who wind up
> oppressed by guards, police, supervisors, etc. - become meek and
> compliant.
Again, not true. Avon *was* a loser, and it didn't make him meek and
compliant. Very often, the oppressed person makes a conscious effort
to change. An associate of mine, another INTP, finds me to be in
comparison with himself, confident, assertive and sometimes rather
aggressive. It's a front I make a constant effort of upholding though
I don't really feel it. Break though my armour, I'd have a breakdown.
I also do not believe that Avon had any sexual privileges with other
members of the crew, although a lot of fan-fic suggests this.
I just don't think he was interested after Anna. Servalan was his
mindmate, they were locked in cosmic chess but above all she was
taboo to him. In love or war, I can see nothing to suggest that he
was a very physical person. His killing style is proof enough, he
favoured the gun. Avon though stereotyped as a 'leather clad killer'
was never as brutal a killer as Blake, or as good an assassin as
Soolin. True, towards the end there were power games, but these were
nothing that came to him naturally. One has to suppose that he copied
the expected behavior or that what seemed appropriate to him.
Avon had been destroyed by his situation and the scars were beginning
to leak through to the outside. As these became visible, Avon became
more and more distraught and finally cracked.
I hope this gives you another angle to think about, which doesn't
have to reduce humans to the level of animals.
Vick
'Idealism is a wonderful thing, all you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use.'
Kerr Avon. (B7 ep 52 'Blake')
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:01:11 +0100
From: Murray Smith <mjsmith@tcd.ie>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] A site of possible interest
Message-Id: <l03110701b30985a98fa2@[134.226.96.44]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To all fanfiction writers out there, I came on a very interesting
web site: //www.eviloverlord.com/ The person in charge, Peter Anspach,
began asking questions as to why evil characters who try to take over the
world or the universe keep failing, and complied a list of 100 suggestions
as to what a potential evil overlord should or should not do. Here are a
few examples:
6. I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them.
94. When arresting prisoners, my guards will not allow them to stop and
grab a
useless trinket of purely sentimental value.
He asked readers to send in their suggestions; and his list now has 225 in
total, including his own. While the suggestions are somewhat
tongue-in-cheek, they do show how many evil characters have been reduced to
caricatures; and fanfic writers who want to write about such characters
would gain a lot from reading the suggestions, as well as plenty of laughs.
Murray
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 07:16:45 PST
From: "Stephen Date" <stephendate@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dream writers/directors/guest stars for B7
Message-ID: <19990308151659.4874.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Joanne wrote:
>
>Joe Aherne? Yes, please - while all the others would be interesting
>choices, Aherne did such a marvellous job of Ultraviolet (well, that's
>my opinion, anyway <smile> I enjoyed it, and I'm furious that I managed
>to miss the first episode when it was shown in Australia late last
year)
>that it would be very interesting to see what he could do with
something
>like B7.
I think he'd do a superb job, myself. I thought the interaction between
the main characters in Ultraviolet was very B7. As was the moral
ambiguity. I also liked the way that the vampires were scientific and
interacted with modern day society instead of living in mock gothic
splendour. An Aherne B7 would go for "realism" rather than camp space
opera. Of course England have more chance of winning the World Cup than
the BBC have of commissioning any decent sci-fi. (On the subject of what
TV programs people ask the Beeb to repeat I can only assume from the
evidence of my TV set that no's #1 and #2 on the list were Space 1999
and Battlestar Galactica).
>>>Guest star? Why Sylvester McCoy of course.
>>Morgan Freeman, Andreas Katsulas, Peter Jurasik, Claudia Christian,
>>Patrick McGoohan, Tom Baker, The four main characters from
>>Ultraviolet, Edward Woodward, Andre Morell, Julian Glover, Dame >Diana
>Rigg.
>
>Sound like pretty good choices. Would you care to suggest possible
parts
>for them to play? (I'd try, but I'm off home for the weekend in a
minute
>or two.)
>
To be honest I'd had them down as guest appearances so you'd have to
wait for the panel of writers to get their scripts in ! But if you were
to cast new people as the regulars - Claudia Christian as Jenna,
Susannah Harker would make a good Soolin, I can see Jack Davenport as
Tarrant, the chap who played Piers in Ultraviolet as Avon - oh and I
have this insane idea of Morgan Freeman as Blake and Diana Rigg as
Servalan.
Katsulas and Jurasik as Bercol and Rontane ?
Stephen.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:32:15
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids
Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990308093215.09470742@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:31 PM 3/7/99 +0000, Julia Jones wrote:
>Do you want to hear about the incarnation of Travis or don't you?
[Snivelling] I meant no disrespect, Supreme Commander Julia.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:57:36
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] top ten requests
Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990308095736.09471a0a@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mistral said:
>(new blood y'know - does that make us mutoids?)
Metaphorical mutoids. Spiritual mutoids. Embrace the mutoid within. Kiss
me, I'm a mutoid. Mutoid rights now!
YTV must have run out of cash halfway through season 3, because that's when
they stopped showing it, and I don't know if they ever started again. It
was jarring in any case constantly segueing from B7 to Pizza-Pop and
Clearasil ads...owing to the fact that the episodes I seem to watch most
were all recorded off YTV as opposed to PBS, I now have this permanent
Pavlovian association in my mind between B7 and -- some kind of deodorant,
I can't even come up with the name after fast forwarding through several
dozen of their ads many dozens of times -- but I do know it's "...strong
enough for a man -- but made for women like Nicole."
Does BBC show ads?
--Penny "Mutoid Pride" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:18:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] On Matters PD
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0308101804-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Sun 07 Mar, Sestina2@aol.com wrote:
>
> A query to the members from both lists from a relative newbie. What are your
> various impressions of the Paul Darrow, not so much as an actor but as
> himself, in real life? I confess an extreme fascination for the character of
> Avon, which leads me to wonder what is it about Paul as the person
> interpreting Avon -- along with some good scriptwriting -- that yields such a
> complex characterization?
>
> Put more plainly, this is a question I would love to ask PD if ever I got to
> meet him: How much of Avon is PD and how much of PD is Avon?
Well, let's put it this way - Mary Ridge (plug here for Sheelagh's 'Solstice'
tape) used to call Paul 'Blint'. That's a cross between Burt Lancaster and
Clint Eastwood. As Gareth also added, the Humphry Bogart impersonations crept
in too.
Paul loved the movie greats and tossed in bits whenever he could. No wonder he
enjoys 'Guards Guards' so much. The Clint Eastwood take-off is in the original
book!
So, a bit of Avon definitely came from there. Go and watch 'Casablanca' if in
doubt.
Paul himself always comes across to me as polite and courteous. Which is pretty
good of him since he knows I'm a dyed in the wool Gareth fan and a slash writer
to boot. (He doesn't like slash fiction)
I don't drool over Paul, but I always think of him as a gentleman.
> So much for my impression. Still, my question points to this: The subtlety in
> which PD captures the pain and alienation, the emotional withdrawing, the
> well-perfected mask of coldness belied of course by the most intense ability
> to feel, to love others unconditionally and to the point of utter self-
> sacrifice.....how did PD manage to project all that without projecting aspects
> of himself as well?
Funnily enough, I think a lot of this was due to Chris Boucher. Look at your
favourite scripts where Avon displays these qualities at their best. Then see
who wrote them. Most of Avon's best dialogue was Chris's.
> And while we're at it, what's the scoop on his book "Avon: A Terrible Aspect"?
> Can anyone tell me in a nutshell what his theory of Avon's background is (I
> haven't been able to locate even a used copy of the book in the US) and why B7
> fans seem, almost universally, I gather, to hate it? (Sorry if this rehashing
> an old debate/discussion on both lists.)
I opened a random page. 'The kissed savagely. He took her there and then, on
the dank floor of the hanger, amidst the blood and debris of the fight.'
It isn't all that bad, but a lot of it is. The frustrating thing is that there
are bits that are well written, but they are drowned in bad science, too much
gratituous sex (and I'm speaking as a writer of gratituous sex), a weak plot and
a lack of continuity with the aired series. I think it would have been a lot
better if he'd worked with a good editor.
I got this copy from a friend from another friend who was selling some books and
magazines - I've no urge to keep it. Have you tried the Advanced Book Exchange?
It's a wonderful second-hand bookshop on the web that was reccomended here
recntly. I've found several of my wants there.
Actually, while I'm here, does anybody want a copy of the Blake's 7 annuals for
79, 80, 81 (4 pounds plus postage - excellent condition), Hardback Blake's 7 by
Trevor Hoyle and Terry Nation (cover in very good condition with a great picture
of Liberator - slight age spots on the paper - 8 pounds plus postage), paperback
'Project Avalon' by Trevor Hoyle (4 pounds plus postage - good condition apart
from a number written on the plastic cover protector), first edition of the
programme guide (5 pounds. The condition is poor, but it's autographed by Jan
Chappell, Michael Keating, Paul Darrow, Sally Knyvette and Peter Tuddenham.)
There's also the two Blake's 7 jigsaws and a full set of Marvel monthly
magazines, but someone has already expressed a possible interest in those, so I
won't list them here until she's decided if she wants them. (Actually, I think
I'm going to buy the Liberator jigsaw myself)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:05:56 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Redemption
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0308130556-9eeRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Does anyone have a good photo of Servalan and Londo Mollari together?
I feel this marriage needs recording for posterity and I'd love a picture that I
could scan for the web page.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: 08 Mar 1999 20:11:20 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Redemption
Message-ID: <us4snviyp3.fsf@sara.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Does anyone have a good photo of Servalan and Londo Mollari
> together? I feel this marriage needs recording for posterity
If you ask me, it's more of the sort of marriage that should be buried
in an unmarked grave with a stake through its heart.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
Hello? Brain? What do we want for breakfast?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:49:25 -0000
From: "Fiona Scarlett" <fiona@scarlett.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Space City" <space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] where is everybody ?
Message-ID: <002101be69a5$2f2dbec0$4d17883e@acer>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE69A5.26EDEDC0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE69A5.26EDEDC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello!!
Just a quick post to say that I have fought my way out from under the =
email mound and am now ready for new email!
Due to a technical glitch with my domain server, I have not had any =
Lysator or Space City email that was sent after the 2nd March until now. =
So if you sent me something and haven't had a response you'll know why. =
Other than that, I am now all caught up with email so you may see some =
sense coming out of me now. Or those of you who know me well may =
consider that sense never comes from my brain, and so will settle down =
to enjoy normal service from the realm of the dippy!
lots of love
Fifitrix
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE69A5.26EDEDC0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Just a quick post to say that I have =
fought my=20
way out from under the email mound and am now ready for new =
email!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Due to a technical glitch with my domain server, I =
have not=20
had any Lysator or Space City email that was sent after the 2nd March =
until now.=20
So if you sent me something and haven't had a response you'll know =
why. =20
Other than that, I am now all caught up with email so you may see some =
sense=20
coming out of me now. Or those of you who know me well may =
consider that=20
sense never comes from my brain, and so will settle down to enjoy normal =
service=20
from the realm of the dippy!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>lots of love</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Fifitrix</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE69A5.26EDEDC0--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:29:22 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Evil Characters (was Re: [B7L] A site of possible interest)
Message-ID: <19990309082922.D1683@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 03:01:11PM +0100, Murray Smith wrote:
> tongue-in-cheek, they do show how many evil characters have been reduced to
> caricatures; and fanfic writers who want to write about such characters
> would gain a lot from reading the suggestions, as well as plenty of laughs.
The thing that gets me about the portrayal of "baddies" on TV, in
books (particularly standard generic fantasy) is that they're usually
portrayed as evil-because-they're-evil. Because. Full stop. What
nonsense! With a very few exceptions, no evil person thinks of
themself as evil. They have real motivations, even if it's mostly
selfishness, they rationalize their evil as necessity (or whatever).
Take Hitler, the oft-paraded example of Ultimate Evil in our society.
Everything he did, as far as he was concerned, was for the good of
society, for the good of Germany. Evil people always have motives.
(Heck, remember classic detectives - means, *motive* and opportunity)
So why do these fiction writers *forget* that? Oh, he's evil because
he's an evil overlord. Oh, they're evil creatures because they are
the Spawn of Darkness and they exude Evil like a bad smell. Humph!
Rule 1: All characters have motives.
Rule 2: The greater the potential for good, the greater the potential
for evil. All vices are corrupt virtues.
Thank goodness Servalan was a well-written baddie! Or thank Chris
Boucher. Or Terry Nation. Or Jacqueline Pierce. Probably all of the
above.
Kathryn A.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 14:19:10 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dream writers/directors/guest stars for B7
Message-ID: <19990308221911.19580.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Stephen wrote:
>Of course England have more chance of winning the World Cup >than the
BBC have of commissioning any decent sci-fi.
<grin> Well, the Windies found themselves scoring rather poorly
recently, a rather uncharacteristic thing for them, so maybe other
British sporting and broadcasting organisations can do something equally
uncharacteristic. (Yes, it is still very unlikely.)
>To be honest I'd had them down as guest appearances so you'd >have to
wait for the panel of writers to get their scripts in ! But if you >were
to cast new people as the regulars - Claudia Christian as Jenna,
>Susannah Harker would make a good Soolin,
Yes, she can do cold and purposeful very well. Must've been a shock to
those who had seen her only as the sweet elder sister Jane in Pride and
Prejudice.
>I can see Jack Davenport as Tarrant,
Somebody should ask Carol if she's seen This Life. This would be the
best way to measure it - does Jack Davenport have the same or similar
effect on the Tarrant Nostra as Stephen Pacey does. Stephen, given the
"glowing" report Carol has given, might still make a pretty good Tarrant
on-screen. Not that that was the idea you were pursuing.
>the chap who played Piers in Ultraviolet as Avon
Philip Quast? That's an interesting idea. (No, I mean it.) Again, the
same degree of cold, purposefulness and all of the doubts as well. Avon
has Anna's betrayal, Piers has one of the leeches making him confront
the reasons for his vocation. Yes, it might work well, if you could get
past the sex symbol aspect of the character - Quast isn't as obviously
attractive as Darrow. <grin> Some of us would be more interested in that
than others!
> - oh and I have this insane idea of Morgan Freeman as Blake
Insane? Not so much. The few things I've seen him in in the past suggest
he might make a less passionate Blake, but that's probably a silly thing
to suggest about such an actor - ie suggesting that his personal
chameleon circuit is faulty.
>and Diana Rigg as Servalan.
Not now. You'd need that time machine, so you could grab her just after
she left The Avengers. A character that makes her looks so much a part
of her armoury would need someone who looks younger, I'm afraid. Feel
free to disagree, as I may be missing something here.
>Katsulas and Jurasik as Bercol and Rontane ?
<chuckle> A terrific double act. I could see that.
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:26:23 -0700 (MST)
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Evil Characters (was Re: [B7L] A site of possible interest)
Message-Id: <199903082226.PAA16595@pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Kathryn said:
>Thank goodness Servalan was a well-written baddie! Or thank Chris
>Boucher. Or Terry Nation. Or Jacqueline Pierce. Probably all of the
>above.
"Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie..." I think the other three all
contributed, though... I'm sure you will all be absolutely astounded to
learn that the Evil Overlord List has long been one of my favourite literary
works, and I trust that someday it will serve me well, an invaluable
companion piece to 'The Art Of War' and without all those annoying
translation difficulties.
Servalan has obviously taken Rule #29 to heart:
"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into
confusion."
However, she might have given a bit more heed to the latter part of Rule
#33:
"I won't require high-ranking female members of my organization to
wear a stainless-steel bustier. Morale is better with a more casual dress-
code. Similarly, outfits made entirely from black leather will be reserved
for formal occasions."
--Penny "Chain-mail, 24/7" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:58:06 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] top ten requests
Message-ID: <97VbIBAOvC52EwsJ@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <3.0.6.16.19990308095736.09471a0a@mail.geocities.com>, Penny
Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com> writes
>Does BBC show ads?
In theory, no.
In practice - it seems to use a vast amount of time in between
programmes wittering on about what good value for money the licence fee
is. And if you want to watch repeats of anything decent, you have to
subscribe to cable or satellite to get their repeat channels (UK Gold,
etc). This is a system where you pay a monthly subscription, and then
have ads liberally scattered through the programme as well, with more ad
breaks per hour than seen on the terrestrial commercial channels.
Snipping here and there when necessary to create more time to show ads
in.
Guess where the BBC repeats Dr Who and B7?
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 14:55:50 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] top ten requests
Message-ID: <19990308225552.27548.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
>From: mistral@ptinet.net
>Depends. A) What were #1 and #2? and B) Some of us are >Americans- why
should they listen to us?
C) Some of us are British and Australian, and they're not likely to
listen to us either, unfortunately.
>Then again, if B7 is really #3, why don't they air it?
The answer appears to be that they can't be bothered. The ABC, some
years ago, when asked if they'd ever screen it again, gave an answer
that translated as "buy the videos". Seems to be that the programme is
more lucrative when not shown on free-to-air stations. I'm about to find
myself in Penny's situation, when another favourite programme,
previously on ABC, starts screening on one of the Australian commercial
channels. Hopefully I won't find myself beginning to associate Good News
Week with some product or the other.
>I think it must be easier for us here in the states -- if we really
want to >see it aired, we just have to raise the money for our local PBS
station >to rent and broadcast it -- about $30,000 US for my local PBS
to run >all four series, 1 ep per week for a year. I don't suppose the
BBC >would let the British fans raise part of the cost? A big
undertaking, I >know,
I'm surprised I haven't heard a cry of horror from the Britons on the
list at this suggestion. The British taxpayer, like the Australian
taxpayer where the ABC/SBS* is concerned, funds the BBC. While I'm sure
that noble broadcaster would be happy for extra funding, no one would
care much for the means. Who wants to pay twice for something they
should only have to pay for once? I gather that PBS stations are not
statutory authorities, as the BBC and the ABC/SBS are, more or less
(possibly less, in the case of the BBC), so the US government does not
have the same responsibility for them that the British and Australian
governments do for their relevant broadcasters. The point of all this
waffle is that Australia and, presumably, Britain do not have the same
tradition of and dependence upon community television broadcasting that
seems to be the case in the US.
* The Special Broadcasting Service, which might be termed the ethnic
version of the ABC, accepts advertising for commercial products between
programmes. Unless someone beats some sense into the present Australian
government, the ABC might be forced, in the near future, to do the same
and there'd be many (myself included) who would hate to see that happen.
>but it might be worthwhile to get some new fans to help keep the
>fandom growing and vital
From the little I know about B7 fandom (and oh! how little that is), the
Americans were doing quite well even before it was shown there. There is
nothing to suggest this sort of situation can't continue everywhere B7
was shown, so long as there are those of us who, well, "keep the faith",
as it were.
>(new blood y'know - does that make us mutoids?)
<grin>
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:08:28 EST
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dream writers/directors/guest stars for B7
Message-ID: <71b7c7d3.36e4586c@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Joanne wrote:
> Somebody should ask Carol if she's seen This Life.
I've not seen it.
> This would be the
> best way to measure it - does Jack Davenport have the same or similar
> effect on the Tarrant Nostra as Stephen Pacey does.
Considering the Pacey wallop, I think it's safe to say sight unseen that
Davenport wouldn't measure up. Pacey's entire package is so very much Tarrant
for me that I've never been able to seriously consider anyone else in the
part.
> Stephen, given the
> "glowing" report Carol has given, might still make a pretty good Tarrant
> on-screen. Not that that was the idea you were pursuing.
He'd definitely still make a great Tarrant. But don't get me started thinking
about *that* again. It can distract me for days. Come to think of it, what
better way to spend my time. <g>
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:33:18 +1000
From: Taina Nieminen <tenzil@bigpond.com>
To: "'B7'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Why Avon changed
Message-ID: <01BE6A29.032C2260@TENZIL>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Vick wrote:
<<I hope this gives you another angle to think about, which doesn't
have to reduce humans to the level of animals.>>
As a charter (and as far as I know the only member) of the homo gorilla and
chimpanzee league, humans weren't compared to animals. They were compared
to chimapanzees and gorillas who are people too. They just happen to be hairy
people who don't have language. I've seen video footage of an old silverback
destroying a person-made trap in a beautiful example of problem-solving.
Gorillas and chimpanzees from everything I have read about them and seen
on video footage shows that they are thinking, conscious and sentient beings
and by my definition that makes them people. (And of course biologically and
hormonally, they are just as much animals as homo sapiens are.)
In my ever-so-humble opinion, of course.
Taina
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 20:07:18 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis/Mutoids
Message-ID: <36E49066.80B@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Penny Dreadful wrote:
>
> Hellen the Bulgarian said:
>
> >> This relationship is even more dramatic/sorrowful than those between
> >>Avon and Anna...
>
> Yikes! You are a brave soul indeed to dare make such an assertion.
> Fortunately (or was it incredibly clever strategic foresight on your part?) the
> loyal defenders of Avon and Anna are all presumably on their deathbeds with
> the Creeping Conflu (reading these reports all I could think was 'Good thing it
> wasn't a "Survivors" convention')...
>
> One-Ell Helen (Hey, with a name like Avona, shouldn't you be loyally
> defending Avon?) added:
And I do. When he's insulted. Frankly, I think it's not so bad to think
he isn't the winner of the AllTime Most Screwed Up SF Love Story Award.
--Avona
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #93
*************************************