From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #77
X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume99/77
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 77
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Constructive Criticism (was re: Fannishness)
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
[B7L] Rx B7
Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Re: Roche limit
RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
[B7L] Re: Julius Caesar
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
[B7L] Re: Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
[B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Re: Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
RE: [B7L] Charged with attempted filking...
[B7L]Gareth on TV
[B7L] Maniacal Surrender (was: Myers-Briggs)
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
[B7L]Why Servalan was so disagreeable
[B7L] game stats and J. Caesar
Re: [B7L] Re Myers Briggs
Re: Mary Sues (was Re: [B7L] Fannishness)
[B7L] A filk for Vila
Re: [B7L] Run for the hills...
Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
[B7L] Just one question...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:31:44 +0000
From: Russ Massey <russ@wriding.demon.co.uk>
To: mistral@ptinet.net
Cc: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats
Message-ID: <VdnBWDAQvr02EwSE@wriding.demon.co.uk>
In message <36D29FF6.7FF19AD2@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net
writes
>
>Russ Massey wrote:
>
>> The only major characters who use their allure as a weapon in B7 are
>> Servalan and Tarrant (a little), I would say. I don't see Avon as
>> pretending to seduce women to get what he wants.
>
>Hmmm, Russ. Depends on how you define seduce. Did you see Aftermath?
>Power?
I don't really recall Avon using his masculine wiles to any great effect
in Power. Are you claiming that his testosterone fuelled sneers at
Pella's expense were a charismatic seduction scene :)
>***Sarcophagus***?
Mmm. Surely Sarcophagus was Avon's strong will being applied to
resist the Alien's Sex Appeal. Yes, she found him desirable, but that's
passive reaction to his charms - I don't see him doing anything to
encourage her.
> Avon's whole twisted relationship with Servalan? He
>certainly was aware of his masculinity as a *weapon* in series' C and D--
I'm willing to accept that to some extent, but a few examples to argue
over would be nice.
>and I can offer you several plausible explanations for the apparent change,
>none of which have to do with Paul Darrow being allowed more artistic
>license. (Which I won't bore you with unless you really want them.)
It's about the first interesting Avon thread in a long time :)
Fire away!
> Oh, and
>actually the change started very slowly in series A, and only *accelerated*
>after Blake left.
>
Where do you pinpoint the first appearance of lounge-lizard Avon?
>As for Tarrant-- he's 'young; brave; handsome;' but Servalan seduced him,
>not the other way around, so I don't see it.
Well he's very chivalric but at the same time I would say is attitude to
the female crew-members is only just short of active flirtation. It's
been a while since I watched any vids, so I can't give any concrete
proof at the moment unfortunately.
> In fact, he sort of seems to
>become softer and more innocent as the show progresses.
>
It's the Space Command brutalisation regime gradually wearing off.
>Actually, Jenna did this allure thing, far more than Tarrant (Breakdown,
>Bounty, The Keeper).
>
Indeed, how could I have missed that. (Breakdown? - when was that?)
In fact I did give Jenna the Sex Appeal skill in the first lot of stats
which you missed. I wonder how 'The Keeper' would have turned out
with Cally captured by the Goths in place of Jenna?
> Sexy is as sexy does. Tarrant appeals if
>you like innocence; but pirates are (*very* generally statistically
>speaking) more appealing to women than choirboys.
>
>Which is interesting, because Jenna is more self-aware than Cally, and yet
>Cally gets more attention than Jenna in fanfic.
Is that true? I hadn't really noticed any disparity between the two.
--
Russ Massey
Sirius Games, 161 Montague Street, Worthing,
West Sussex BN11 3BZ
(01903 217334)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:09:15 PST
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <19990223160915.4251.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
>So am I the *only* INFJ around here? Anyone else 'The Counsellor'?
>How depressing - I get to be naff 3rd season Cally rather than
>kick-ass 1st season Cally.
Never mind, Una. I'm sure you'll be able to get a good line flogging
environmentally friendly garlic oatmeal cakes. It ain't so bad being a
drippy hippy. <phlmmph...>
Then again, Myers Briggs is based on four either-or dichotomies, and if
there's anything that's misled more people than anything else, I'll be
monkey-f***ed if it's not either-or dichotomies. Just my opinion.
Anyway, good to see you back on the list, Una. Save a few whales for me
at Redemption, would you?
Cheers,
-- Rob
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:18:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.990223171811.6511H-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Lisa said:
>I liked this bit, from the ENTJ description on the typelogic.com site:
>TRADEMARK: -- "I'm really sorry you have to die." (I realize this is an
>overstatement. However, most Fs and other gentle souls usually chuckle
>knowingly at this description.)
And indeed I did.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:35:57 +0000
From: Russ Massey <russ@wriding.demon.co.uk>
To: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
Cc: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Constructive Criticism (was re: Fannishness)
Message-ID: <INwGiGANzr02EwQz@wriding.demon.co.uk>
In message <02b701be5f28$9e5d5580$341fac3e@default>, Neil
Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>>Hmm... Meaning *what* exactly. Nope. I must be too stupid to work
>>out if I'm being insulted there :)
>
>You're being a tad paranoid. If I'm going to insult you, I'll do it after
>Redemption, not before.
>
Can't make it this year I'm afraid - no spare cash.
>>>Mind you, nobody's yet managed to tell me how to construct a manageable
>>>plot. That's how most of my fanfic ends up unfinished.
>>>
>>If anyone enlightens you then put them in touch with me next. One
>>word of advice - know where you're intending to end up. The
>>beginning and middle can take care of themselves as long as have some
>>end point to steer them towards. More often than not my stories that
>>are unfinished are the ones that I wrote with no clear idea of the
>>climax.
>
>I always know where I want to end up, it's the getting there that's the
>problem. Most of my plots seem to founder on information flow - who knows
>what, to what degree, and how do they come to know it. Since many of the
>main actors in my plots are not individuals but organisations -
>corporations, intelligence agencies, military bodies or government
>departments - lurking in the background, I presume them to act sensibly on
>the basis of whatever information they have, so What They Know is crucial.
>For them not to act sensibly requires extensive subplotting and too many
>loose ends. One story (remember 'Katanga'?) had me trying to reconcile the
>conflicting motivations of Federation Central Security, Space Command, the
>Auron secret service, a planetary liberation front and the repressive
>government it was trying to overthrow. A fairly typical brew with me.
>
That's the same problem behind my trouble with the next instalment
of the DeLancey/Alecta saga. I've got some killer scenes worked out,
but I just can't get any plausible motivation for the necessary actions
taken by three different factions - especially the master villain. It all
comes out to be a bit too Asimov's Foundation for my liking.
--
Russ Massey
Sirius Games, 161 Montague Street, Worthing,
West Sussex BN11 3BZ
(01903 217334)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:55:04 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D2DD68.668A@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pherber@aol.com wrote:
> (Snip) Re: Avon
> On the I/E scale, I agree he's an I, but more toward the center of the scale
> than might be immediately apparent. I have always thought that one of the
> reasons he *didn't* leave was that he found the intellectual & emotional
> challenge of being with the others more appealing than being alone or with
> more placid companions. He seems to enjoy the verbal sparring with Blake and
> Vila, especially.
NOT near the center by any means. I'm a 9/10 Introvert myself, but I
don't want to be utterly alone in the universe. My idea of social bliss
is a small handful of people who I actually like meeting about once a
week, a husband who tends to let me do things my own way, a cat, and the
Internet. And what do you know, I've got bliss> <g> My brother, who is
even more Introverted than I am, and therefore must be a 10, needs a
little non-internet companionship, and is happy to have a girlfriend.
Humans are social animals. Even hermits are glad to have some form of
contact. Avon, as a strong I, does not make friends easily. And E, or
borderline E, might have found it easier to leave, knowing they could
be happy with any people they fell in with. I's hold on to friendships--
they are difficult things to find and maintain as it is.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:00:38 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D2DEB6.1186@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
>
> Kiersten Boughen wrote:
>
> > INTP's are also renown for never actually producing much with the knowledge
> > they have aquiured. Keirsey and Bates describe them as architects who need
> > others around them to actually turn their plans into a reality. (I can't
> > give the exact quote as my copy of 'Please Understand Me' is sitting on a
> > dock waiting to go to Auckland.) Avon does actually create something out of
> > what he learned from the Sopron, more INTJ than P. However, taking into
> > consideration his attitude towards the Sopron for the rest of the episode,
> > which is very P, that puts him very border line P/J. OTOH we never see or
> > hear of the Sopron again so that would tip the balance over to P. <snip>.
>
> Yes, Yes! Which reminds me of something I forgot to say: We do see Avon indulge
> in J-ish goal-oriented or productive behaviour from time to time (i.e. the use
> of the Sopron, 'Rumors', 'Terminal', etc.); but in [almost] every case those are
> short-term behaviours, and would fall into the INTP's obsessive phase, when the
> idea is all-consuming. INTPs are, in fact, able to complete projects that can be
> resolved within very short time periods, while the initial thrill of engagement
> is still on.
>
I'm going to say "j" on the Sopron thing. He made a special trip to pick
up that rock, when no one else knew what he wanted it for. Clearly, it
wasn't ssome fascinating thing that he stumbled across, but something he
had a general plan in mind for. So he went out, got it, studied it, used
it-- what he did with it after, who knows? Used it to boost power output
by reflecting the Liberator's power source? Sold it to a high bidder?
Who knows? Maybe he just thought it would keep Cally's pet moondisk
company.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:22:56 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <199902231621.KAA06679@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
>Actually, for an INTP, I'm not very creative (of course, I think actually
INTJs
>are supposed to have the edge there).
Not really; creativity is tied mostly closely to the N trait, so it's more
a matter of how N you are. INTPs and INTJs both exhibit creativity, though
in somewhat different styles.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:21:07 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <199902231621.KAA06675@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Kathryn Andersen wrote:
>Here's another question which puzzles me - is Cally INFJ or INFP?
>She's definitely INF, but again we have this J/P thing.
The problem with Cally was that she was portrayed so inconsistently. In her
original incarnation, I would place her as INFJ. However, as time went one
she sort of mutated into an INFP. I guess you can take your choice as to
which was the more intrinsic Cally.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:19:56 -0800
From: "Ann Basart" <abasart@dnai.com>
To: "Blake's7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Rx B7
Message-Id: <199902231721.JAA12015@mercury.dnai.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Two people on the list have recently mentioned the antidepressant effect of
watching B7:
Mistral wrote: “Watching Blakes 7 is how I self-medicate against severe,
chronic depression. . .”
Someone else (sorry, I’ve lost the posting) wrote that an antidote to
depression was watching two eps of B7 and having coffee.
I agree, and perhaps others of you do, too. My question to those of you who
share this experience is, Why is this the case?
Ann
abasart@dnai.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:41:04
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs
Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990223114104.2ae7e8fa@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Neil wrote:
>...apparently I'm an INTP for all that's worth. So I'm a wierdo
>loser haunted by an impending sense of failure, am I?
It has been pointed out to me that considering INTPs are alleged to be such
a rarity the Internet certainly seems to be acrawl with them. Us. Whatever.
And I certainly must say "we" seem to be rather overrepresented among the
people on this list who've 'fessed up to their M-B Classifications.
Particularly considering it certainly does seem to be the Booby Prize of
the bunch. So I have to wonder if the test is at least in part measuring
whether or not you're the kind of person who would voluntarily take such a
test...
And I don't think Avon's an INTP, either. I'm voting with the "J"-team.
--Penny "Bad Hair Life" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:59:43
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: "B7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990223115943.09e76030@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Alison said:
>I am also gripped by Lisa's insight in calling Travis ISTJ. I had
>never thought of it and I think it's great. Interesting (like Data) the
>metaphor of a simulation of biological life, in one case benign and in the
>other malign.
"Your plastic pal who's fun to be with!" Well, we know Mr. Data was fun for
Yar to be with, anyhow...uh-oh, shut up Penny or they'll begin to suspect
that all protestations to the contrary you actually *are* a Trekkie...
--Penny "Live Long And Prosper" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:19:39 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Roche limit
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0223171939-bc8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Tue 23 Feb, Iain Coleman wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Judith Proctor wrote:
>
> > Iain,
> >
> > Fancy a flip chart (or possibly an OHP depending on the room) and a time slot to
> > talk about Roche's limit and any other good scientific conundrums in B7? (We
> > couldn't get the images onto the web unless someone had a handy digital camera
> > though)
> >
> > I don't know if many people would come (simply because it would be on the
> > noticeboard and not in the programme book) but if there's interest, it would
> > seem to be worth doing.
>
> I'm game. I don't want to give a lecture or anything - for various
> reasons, not least that I don't have time to prepare. However, I think a
> workshop format could be fun. I could lead off the discussion on science
> in B7, and the group as a whole could come up with whatever explanations,
> rationalisations or barely plausible retcons present themselves.
Sounds like fun. Working on that basis, do you want to do it in a programme
room or in the social space outside the main hall? (Near the second bar when
it's open in the afternoons...)
Tell you what, take a look at the programme when you arrive and pick the spot
you'd like to have. You'll be able to see whan individual rooms/the Mountbatten
foyer are free. Tell me/Steve and we'll fix it (I'll be on the radio net if you
can't find me, so registration will be able to get me).
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:07:51 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB49@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
I wrote:
> >Or are there any ISTJ characters on B7?
>
and Lisa answered:
> Travis.
>
> There, that made you feel better, didn't it?
>
Actually, last night I was thinking that the mutoids might be ISTJ's. But
now that it's become known that I'm a dangerous megalomaniac (hi, Penny ;-)
), I might as well enjoy it.
So, Penny, what was that message to pope Bill all about? Us megalomaniacs
don't take kindly to having our religious leaders giving in to the
opposition. You know what happened when Travis felt betrayed by Servalan!
Or is this a secret plot, where you send Offler to Bill with those
plowshares in its grinning jaws? Here ya go, Bill, just an innocent little
present, please don't take note of the bearer (or its teeth).
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:13:44 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar
Message-ID: <199902231414_MC2-6B94-D57F@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Alison wrote:
>In other word's I'd like to see Harriet's platonic version of Julius
Caesar.
Nothing Platonic about it. Strictly Epicurean.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:11:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Susan.Moore@uni.edu
To: BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-id: <01J831I97GJ68X08OM@uni.edu>
Okay, I admit it. When I took the MBTI test, the results said "INTP". I think
we've been undercounted as part of the master plan for taking over the world.
Susan M.
"Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky?"
"I think so, Brain, but how are we going to get tube socks on a Great Dane?"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:13:46 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <199902231414_MC2-6B94-D581@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Calle replied to Mistral:
>> What I *really* want to know is, how does
>>this relate to the panda in the frig?
>
>Sshh! Don't mention him!
It's quite safe, I looked in the fridge and he was invisible.
In a completely different part of the Myers Briggs wood, Mistral wrote:
>But there's this image that flashes into my mind of Soolin
>saying 'But Avon, you lie so well', and Avon looking dismayed.
He lies appallingly. See the end of Gambit.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:25:11 -0500
From: "Kimberly D. Ashford" <thesseli@msn.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <0c13b3426191729CPIMSSMTPU09@email.msn.com>
>>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Alison Page wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> [*] For instance a
>>> discussion thread was 'how do you recognise ENTJ types'. I thought of
>>> Servalan, and said 'dress in an intimidating manner, often have severe
>>> haircuts, use their physical appearance consciously to get their own
>way',
>>> which was apparently a good answer.
>>
>>Oh my God, my brother is Servalan. I feel all queasy.
>>
>>Iain
>>
>
>
>Oh no, I guess that means that I am too! But I'm _not_ cutting my hair.
:)
>
>
>Kim
>thesseli@msn.com
>-----
>Visit the Starbucket website at
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/5508/stories.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:25:57 -0500
From: "Kimberly D. Ashford" <thesseli@msn.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <0ed122227191729CPIMSSMTPU02@email.msn.com>
>>>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Alison Page wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> [*] For instance a
>>>> discussion thread was 'how do you recognise ENTJ types'. I thought of
>>>> Servalan, and said 'dress in an intimidating manner, often have severe
>>>> haircuts, use their physical appearance consciously to get their own
>>way',
>>>> which was apparently a good answer.
>>>
>>>Oh my God, my brother is Servalan. I feel all queasy.
>>>
>>>Iain
>>>
>>
>>
>>Oh no, I guess that means that I am too! But I'm _not_ cutting my hair.
>:)
>>
>>
>>Kim
>>thesseli@msn.com
>>-----
>>Visit the Starbucket website at
>>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/5508/stories.html
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:27:45 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D30F41.F862EA8F@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> In a completely different part of the Myers Briggs wood, Mistral wrote:
>
> >But there's this image that flashes into my mind of Soolin
> >saying 'But Avon, you lie so well', and Avon looking dismayed.
>
> He lies appallingly. See the end of Gambit.
I think I have been the victim of a sound bite (or its e-list equivalent).
The next sentence of my post starts: "Actually, I don't think he
does--..." :-)
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
I just hope they're iambic and not trochaic!--M
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:28:42 EST
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <b013384f.36d30f7a@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 2/22/99 10:18:15 PM Mountain Standard Time,
mistral@ptinet.net writes:
<< FWIW, Avona, I've been wondering for your last few posts if you weren't
another P trying
to pass as a J. The planning can be a learned compensatory behaviour; I'm a
nearly
compulsive listmaker (although I almost never cross everything off before
making a new
list). >>
Amen! I've discovered over time that planning can be as obsessive a task any
anything else. In my case, what makes me a P instead of a J is that, while I
plan stuff to death, the actual execution of the plan is liable to be
questionable at best. My psyche just can't seem to grasp deadlines and
timetables -- my sense of time is very closely related to how much fun I'm
having.
Nina
"The reason I never get anything done is that there's always something else I
have to do first."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:28:47 EST
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <a72e7505.36d30f7f@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 2/23/99 9:26:35 AM Mountain Standard Time, avona@jps.net
writes:
<< Maybe he just thought it would keep Cally's pet moondisk
company. >>
Well, that's probably where it wound up after he'd figured it out and got
bored with it.
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:28:44 EST
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats
Message-ID: <e5639887.36d30f7c@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 2/23/99 5:34:20 AM Mountain Standard Time,
mistral@ptinet.net writes:
<< Russ Massey wrote:
>> The only major characters who use their allure as a weapon in B7 are
>> Servalan and Tarrant (a little), I would say. I don't see Avon as
>> pretending to seduce women to get what he wants.
> Hmmm, Russ. Depends on how you define seduce. Did you see Aftermath? Power?
>***Sarcophagus***? Avon's whole twisted relationship with Servalan? He
> certainly was aware of his masculinity as a *weapon* in series' C and D--
> and I can offer you several plausible explanations for the apparent change,
> none of which have to do with Paul Darrow being allowed more artistic
> license. (Which I won't bore you with unless you really want them.) Oh, and
> actually the change started very slowly in series A, and only *accelerated*
> after Blake left. >>
That's a subject that could NEVER be boring!! Give!
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:30:56 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <19990224073056.48514@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Tue, Feb 23, 1999 at 01:11:08PM -0600, Susan.Moore@uni.edu wrote:
> Okay, I admit it. When I took the MBTI test, the results said "INTP".
> I think we've been undercounted as part of the master plan for taking
> over the world.
I'm beginning to suspect that the INTx's are the only ones on this
List *taking* the Myers-Briggs tests! Everyone else thinks the thread
is boring, and isn't bothering.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:54:22 GMT0BST
From: "VJC" <csm80316@port.ac.uk>
To: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <23D1EBA44D2@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
>
> > The most perennial MBTI controversy is whether Avon is INTJ or INTP. I plump
> > fair and square for INTJ, on the basis that INTP types are far too mild
> > mannered.
Like I said before. THEY ARE NOT!!!
INTJs on the other hand are just as aloof as the INTPs, the only
difference being the inrtoversion of their feeling function. It is
unlikely therefore to be demontrated outwardly for good or bad in
the same way that an INTP might erupt dramatically. You may even get
the impression that an INTJ has no feelings whatsoever.
Not even anger.>
> Whether or not Avon is rude enough to be INTJ, he *must* be a J rather
> than a P, because he's such a *planning* person. He doesn't have to
> be a strong J, but he's definitely a J.
>
But were his *plans* really any good? Like any INTP, Avon kept his
options open and had the power to improvise. To an INTP, people
(socially speaking) are not so much company, even less so friends,
but simply conduits for the passage of information.
Vick
Why does my ENFJ associate's father not trust me with an airgun?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:39:27 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D3200E.8F38453E@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pherber@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/22/99 10:18:15 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> mistral@ptinet.net writes:
>
> << FWIW, Avona, I've been wondering for your last few posts if you weren't
> another P trying
> to pass as a J. The planning can be a learned compensatory behaviour; I'm a
> nearly
> compulsive listmaker (although I almost never cross everything off before
> making a new list). >>
>
> Amen! I've discovered over time that planning can be as obsessive a task any
> anything else. In my case, what makes me a P instead of a J is that, while I
> plan stuff to death, the actual execution of the plan is liable to be
> questionable at best. My psyche just can't seem to grasp deadlines and
> timetables -- my sense of time is very closely related to how much fun I'm
> having.
>
> Nina
> "The reason I never get anything done is that there's always something else I
> have to do first."
:D Nina! Everything you just said is so P. Some kinds of planning can be
viewed as system-designing, which is a major skill of INTP, according to
Keirsey's second book. That makes it almost a form of play for us, quite
different from following the plan, which, depending on what the plan actually is,
might be considered work.
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:37:04 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Charged with attempted filking...
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB4A@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Joanne asked:
> Jacqueline, are you really that bad at singing?
>
Well, so far the requests for me to stop singing (or to "stop that bloody
yammering", as some have put it), outnumber the requests to start by a
landslide. There might be a clue in that. :-)
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:26:49 -0000
From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L]Gareth on TV
Message-ID: <004e01be5f7b$9bbfb180$396845c2@orac>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have just seen Gareth Thomas in the new advert for
Warburton's bread. It's a kind of sweet father and son thing
but unfortunately they don't use his voice for the voice over.
I guess he doesn't sound Lancastrian enough.
Still - nice ad. Seen it yet Judith? Or hang on, maybe you
don't get Warburton's bread in Dorset...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:23:07 -0700 (MST)
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Maniacal Surrender (was: Myers-Briggs)
Message-Id: <199902232223.PAA14055@pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jacqueline said:
>Actually, last night I was thinking that the mutoids might be ISTJ's. But
>now that it's become known that I'm a dangerous megalomaniac...
No -- Servalan may be a megalomaniac, but Travis is just a maniac. So
you identify with mutoids? Hmm. Do you dream of electric sheep?
..Does Travis? (And can we work it into the Flat Robin somehow?)
>Or is this a secret plot, where you send Offler to Bill with those
>plowshares in its grinning jaws? Here ya go, Bill, just an innocent little
>present, please don't take note of the bearer (or its teeth).
Just to be on the safe side, I'd be sure and conceal Offler in a wooden
Liberator.
Anyone who wants to take up the FINALACT torch should feel free -- hint
hint Jacqueline you scary singer you -- but *seriously* I got the
impression the War Of The Traves was getting on their nerves along with
my giddiness in general, so I decided to surrender unequivocally and
henceforth direct all my wit 'n' wisdom over here, you lucky people you,
until such time as I can find something Meaningful to say about Blake,
Avon, and a quart of Mazola (I'd say a bucket of shmaltz, but I'm a
*vegetarian* sociopath). Or until Calle pays me to go away.
--Penny "PG-13" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:33:29 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D32CB9.D6287F32@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
First I, then Avona said (re Avon P/J and his pet rock):
> > Yes, Yes! Which reminds me of something I forgot to say: We do see Avon indulge
> > in J-ish goal-oriented or productive behaviour from time to time (i.e. the use
> > of the Sopron, 'Rumors', 'Terminal', etc.); but in [almost] every case those are
> > short-term behaviours, and would fall into the INTP's obsessive phase, when the
> > idea is all-consuming. INTPs are, in fact, able to complete projects that can be
> > resolved within very short time periods, while the initial thrill of engagement
> > is still on.
> >
> I'm going to say "j" on the Sopron thing. He made a special trip to pick
> up that rock, when no one else knew what he wanted it for. Clearly, it
> wasn't ssome fascinating thing that he stumbled across, but something he
> had a general plan in mind for. So he went out, got it, studied it, used
> it-- what he did with it after, who knows? Used it to boost power output
> by reflecting the Liberator's power source? Sold it to a high bidder?
> Who knows? Maybe he just thought it would keep Cally's pet moondisk
> company.
Well Avona, I can agree that he thought it was useful, but 1) I'm not sure that he
knew what he was going to do with it; he didn't have a specific plan for whatever
minerals they were after on the asteroid they were headed for at the beginning of
Sarcophagus; and 2) if he found out about it from some outside source, that knew
enough about the Sopron to make him want to go after it, surely its properties and
uses would be known, and he wouldn't have had to analyze it so thoroughly, and quite
probably Servalan (or her computers) would have known that it was on the planet
Liberator was orbiting, and not been fooled by it. Perhaps the scanners just detected
something unusual on a nearby planet, and Avon said, let's go look, like he did at
Ultraworld-- very P-ish. Even if he made a special trip for it, if it was curiosity
and not a specific use in mind, that's still not J behaviour, that's P. (IMHO, or
IMnotsoHO, depending on your point of view, of course.)
<gasp> having just realized how dangerous disagreeing with Avona could be!
8-P
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:34:41 -0000
From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L]Why Servalan was so disagreeable
Message-ID: <005001be5f7c$b482b180$396845c2@orac>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have just developed this theory as to why Servalan grew so tetchy.
Listen to the scenes in her office in Space Command HQ. Can you
here that distinctive background noise? I first noticed it in
Star One and, although I haven't yet checked all my videos, it
seems to be there in all the series two episodes.
There is a sort of a hum - some people may call it a whine,
It is not steady, at least not to my ears, but kind of oscillating.
When I first heard it I thought it was bad weather outside
and turned down the volume to listen, then I realised it was
actually Space Command.
Is it the engine noise? The air conditioning? Any other ideas?
All I know is that when you have noticed it it is really irritating,
like a flourescent light that won't stop flickering or a colleague
who won't stop chewing their pen top.
If she had to listen to that all day every day no wonder she
got a bit short tempered and hankered after career advancement
to get her away from that damn noise....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:33:28 EST
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] game stats and J. Caesar
Message-ID: <657de471.36d31098@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Russ wrote:
> Well he's very chivalric but at the same time I would say is attitude to
> the female crew-members is only just short of active flirtation.
Not that I saw. He had the look of a deer caught in headlights when Dayna
suggested they perform the human bonding ceremony. I think he pretty much
viewed all of his shipmates as just shipmates. Maybe it was a carryover from
his military training.
I hate to lower Tarrant's stats even further (especially since you judged him
way too low in both strength and intelligence <pout>), but Avon was far more
aware of his sexuality than Tarrant was. Which is fine by me. A minority of
us find choirboys to be much more appealing than rogue pirates. I think a
very telling sequence that shows the difference between Avon and Tarrant is
how they "interact" with the bond bombshell in "Gold." Avon gives her a look
that has Alpha-male-in-heat written all over it. Tarrant interacts in the
manner of that choirboy mentioned above. Even beyond the fact that he was
faking drugged bliss.
Harriet wrote:
> Funnily enough, I started trying to cast it while cooking dinner, and did
> eventually decide to give Michael the part of Anthony, partly because I
> thought it would be a nice change for him to get a rather glamorous role.
> Even though I happen to hate Antony. I was originally pencilling in Steven
> Pacey for MA, but then decided to shift him to Octavius, as the young
> interloper... thanks, Carol, for confirming that choice too.
The synchronicity that sometimes occurs in fandom can be mind boggling. Great
idea to cast some of the women in male roles, Harriet. I don't remember
seeing her cast yet, but I think Jackie would make a wonderful Julius Caesar.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:46:08 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D32FB0.9DF3DE76@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
VJC wrote:
> > From: "Jonathan" <jonathan@meanwhile.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> > "INTPs are relatively easy-going and amenable to most anything until their principles are violated, about which they may become outspoken and inflexible. They prefer to return, however, to a reserved>
> > - this is Avon ? Vick look at the fmous intp list there and show me *one* person who reminds you of Avon. ( Einstein ? Jung ? )Whereas :
>
> Avon was a stressed man in a position he should never have been in.
> Put another INTP in his situation, and expect the same result.
More than that, he was in exactly the situation the typelogic comment describes. His principles were being violated *constantly*, first by Blake, then by Tarrant, and even occasionally by Cally. If he
hadn't been trapped into fighting a rebellion, he'd have had better things to do with his time and a more even temper. (And IMHO, more Einstein than Hannibal Lecter).
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:07:39 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Mary Sues (was Re: [B7L] Fannishness)
Message-ID: <19990223230740.8169.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Neil wrote:
>I wrote one story (Hunter, in Star Two) which had no less than _four_
>'original, plot-significant (female) characters' and at least as many
>original plot-significant male ones. I don't think anyone mistook that
>for a Mary-Sue.
I'm having a hard time remembering anything vaguely Mary-Sueish about
those characters <grin> Anyway, how often, can someone tell me, are
Mary-Sues substance abusers? But I did wonder how many times you'd seen
"Alien", although strange and dangerous entity taking over a spaceship
must've been extremely familiar territory to many SF fans by the time
that film was made.
>Avoid new characters altogether? No No NO. [snip] For Gruds's >sake,
there's a whole great galaxy beyond the hull of the Liberator, >but too
many fan writers don't want to know about it - deliberately. >They
actively resist acknowledging its existence, or speculating on >what it
might be like, let alone how it works. [snip again]
Out of the three Judith Seaman stories Pat Fenech lent me last year, the
one I enjoyed most was "One of the lesser hawks". While the idea of
traders operating just this side of the law must be as old as smuggling
and tax avoidance themselves, the story does explore what some people do
to get by in the Federation's grip. So, to an extent, I agree with you,
Neil, as under normal circumstances I'd run a mile (and I run very badly
<grin>) from stories described as "wallows". However, there are times
when I see Carol's point of view very clearly as well, and would be
happy to read something where the colour of the carpet, let alone the
colour of the politics, is of lesser importance.
I may be entirely misunderstanding you, Neil, but you aren't attempting
to suggest that there's something wrong with stories that stick purely
to the main characters? Or merely that you see far too many stories that
do this and long for a bit more variety? It would be interesting to hear
what is actually the case.
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:19:38 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] A filk for Vila
Message-ID: <19990223231938.3121.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Hopefully, I've got this out of my system now. But if there's a next
time, remind me to pick something that most people know...
Drink Now, Grieve Later (Vila No 2)
(tune: Buy Now Pay Later (Charlie No 2) by The Whitlams)
Vila you're not my Vila anymore
You've had far too much
You're playing the fool with the rest of the crew looking on
If I could get inside your head, I would talk it through with you
How you're not the only one who's feeling her loss
If you don't believe me, I don't believe in you
If you don't believe me, I don't believe in you
Soma makes you better, does it?
Drinking feels like Heaven, does it?
You bicker and you drink accordingly.
You can't remember now
You can't remember now
You can't remember now
You'll try and you'll fail
It haunts you like a little stray
And feeds upon your heart's desires
And scares you while you're still asleep
You drink now and grieve later
But there's no problem, you keep saying, 'cause you still can stand up
But the watch is long and you're falling asleep by the screen
Avon's going crazy 'round you and I'm not far behind
Do you care about yourself anymore?
If you don't believe me etc.
You drink now and grieve later
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:01:09 EST
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Run for the hills...
Message-ID: <6213880f.36d33335@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
This is great, Joanne. Bring on the next one.
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:49:45 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs
Message-ID: <36D33E98.1DE932BE@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 23, 1999 at 01:11:08PM -0600, Susan.Moore@uni.edu wrote:
> > Okay, I admit it. When I took the MBTI test, the results said "INTP".
> > I think we've been undercounted as part of the master plan for taking
> > over the world.
>
> I'm beginning to suspect that the INTx's are the only ones on this
> List *taking* the Myers-Briggs tests! Everyone else thinks the thread
> is boring, and isn't bothering.
Possibly because everybody expects it to be that old Avon P/J thread? I did
pick up on that, because it's the only one I feel really comfortable with
addressing, having studied that particular issue with regard to myself. But
I am willing to discuss any and all other types and characters. Perhaps if
the headers said what types were being discussed, it might generate some
interest. Hmm? :)
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:19:28 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Just one question...
Message-ID: <19990224001928.12646.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
...how do these numbers you get work?
For example, I've just taken both forms of the sorter at Keirsey's site
again. These are the results:
INFP INFP
I 10/10 I+10 N+14 F+12 P+6
P 7/10
NT=34 NF=38 SJ=33 SP=36
I think if I and others knew what was going on there, there might be
more comprehension of whether or not Avon or any other character was
strongly this or that or the other.
Short of reading the book, of course, which I can't do right now.
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #77
*************************************