From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #77 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/77 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 77 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Constructive Criticism (was re: Fannishness) Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] Rx B7 Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Re: Roche limit RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] Re: Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Re: Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs RE: [B7L] Charged with attempted filking... [B7L]Gareth on TV [B7L] Maniacal Surrender (was: Myers-Briggs) Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L]Why Servalan was so disagreeable [B7L] game stats and J. Caesar Re: [B7L] Re Myers Briggs Re: Mary Sues (was Re: [B7L] Fannishness) [B7L] A filk for Vila Re: [B7L] Run for the hills... Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] Just one question... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:31:44 +0000 From: Russ Massey To: mistral@ptinet.net Cc: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats Message-ID: In message <36D29FF6.7FF19AD2@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net writes > >Russ Massey wrote: > >> The only major characters who use their allure as a weapon in B7 are >> Servalan and Tarrant (a little), I would say. I don't see Avon as >> pretending to seduce women to get what he wants. > >Hmmm, Russ. Depends on how you define seduce. Did you see Aftermath? >Power? I don't really recall Avon using his masculine wiles to any great effect in Power. Are you claiming that his testosterone fuelled sneers at Pella's expense were a charismatic seduction scene :) >***Sarcophagus***? Mmm. Surely Sarcophagus was Avon's strong will being applied to resist the Alien's Sex Appeal. Yes, she found him desirable, but that's passive reaction to his charms - I don't see him doing anything to encourage her. > Avon's whole twisted relationship with Servalan? He >certainly was aware of his masculinity as a *weapon* in series' C and D-- I'm willing to accept that to some extent, but a few examples to argue over would be nice. >and I can offer you several plausible explanations for the apparent change, >none of which have to do with Paul Darrow being allowed more artistic >license. (Which I won't bore you with unless you really want them.) It's about the first interesting Avon thread in a long time :) Fire away! > Oh, and >actually the change started very slowly in series A, and only *accelerated* >after Blake left. > Where do you pinpoint the first appearance of lounge-lizard Avon? >As for Tarrant-- he's 'young; brave; handsome;' but Servalan seduced him, >not the other way around, so I don't see it. Well he's very chivalric but at the same time I would say is attitude to the female crew-members is only just short of active flirtation. It's been a while since I watched any vids, so I can't give any concrete proof at the moment unfortunately. > In fact, he sort of seems to >become softer and more innocent as the show progresses. > It's the Space Command brutalisation regime gradually wearing off. >Actually, Jenna did this allure thing, far more than Tarrant (Breakdown, >Bounty, The Keeper). > Indeed, how could I have missed that. (Breakdown? - when was that?) In fact I did give Jenna the Sex Appeal skill in the first lot of stats which you missed. I wonder how 'The Keeper' would have turned out with Cally captured by the Goths in place of Jenna? > Sexy is as sexy does. Tarrant appeals if >you like innocence; but pirates are (*very* generally statistically >speaking) more appealing to women than choirboys. > >Which is interesting, because Jenna is more self-aware than Cally, and yet >Cally gets more attention than Jenna in fanfic. Is that true? I hadn't really noticed any disparity between the two. -- Russ Massey Sirius Games, 161 Montague Street, Worthing, West Sussex BN11 3BZ (01903 217334) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:09:15 PST From: "Rob Clother" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <19990223160915.4251.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain >So am I the *only* INFJ around here? Anyone else 'The Counsellor'? >How depressing - I get to be naff 3rd season Cally rather than >kick-ass 1st season Cally. Never mind, Una. I'm sure you'll be able to get a good line flogging environmentally friendly garlic oatmeal cakes. It ain't so bad being a drippy hippy. Then again, Myers Briggs is based on four either-or dichotomies, and if there's anything that's misled more people than anything else, I'll be monkey-f***ed if it's not either-or dichotomies. Just my opinion. Anyway, good to see you back on the list, Una. Save a few whales for me at Redemption, would you? Cheers, -- Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:18:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Una McCormack To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Lisa said: >I liked this bit, from the ENTJ description on the typelogic.com site: >TRADEMARK: -- "I'm really sorry you have to die." (I realize this is an >overstatement. However, most Fs and other gentle souls usually chuckle >knowingly at this description.) And indeed I did. Una ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:35:57 +0000 From: Russ Massey To: Neil Faulkner Cc: lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Constructive Criticism (was re: Fannishness) Message-ID: In message <02b701be5f28$9e5d5580$341fac3e@default>, Neil Faulkner writes >>Hmm... Meaning *what* exactly. Nope. I must be too stupid to work >>out if I'm being insulted there :) > >You're being a tad paranoid. If I'm going to insult you, I'll do it after >Redemption, not before. > Can't make it this year I'm afraid - no spare cash. >>>Mind you, nobody's yet managed to tell me how to construct a manageable >>>plot. That's how most of my fanfic ends up unfinished. >>> >>If anyone enlightens you then put them in touch with me next. One >>word of advice - know where you're intending to end up. The >>beginning and middle can take care of themselves as long as have some >>end point to steer them towards. More often than not my stories that >>are unfinished are the ones that I wrote with no clear idea of the >>climax. > >I always know where I want to end up, it's the getting there that's the >problem. Most of my plots seem to founder on information flow - who knows >what, to what degree, and how do they come to know it. Since many of the >main actors in my plots are not individuals but organisations - >corporations, intelligence agencies, military bodies or government >departments - lurking in the background, I presume them to act sensibly on >the basis of whatever information they have, so What They Know is crucial. >For them not to act sensibly requires extensive subplotting and too many >loose ends. One story (remember 'Katanga'?) had me trying to reconcile the >conflicting motivations of Federation Central Security, Space Command, the >Auron secret service, a planetary liberation front and the repressive >government it was trying to overthrow. A fairly typical brew with me. > That's the same problem behind my trouble with the next instalment of the DeLancey/Alecta saga. I've got some killer scenes worked out, but I just can't get any plausible motivation for the necessary actions taken by three different factions - especially the master villain. It all comes out to be a bit too Asimov's Foundation for my liking. -- Russ Massey Sirius Games, 161 Montague Street, Worthing, West Sussex BN11 3BZ (01903 217334) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:55:04 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D2DD68.668A@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pherber@aol.com wrote: > (Snip) Re: Avon > On the I/E scale, I agree he's an I, but more toward the center of the scale > than might be immediately apparent. I have always thought that one of the > reasons he *didn't* leave was that he found the intellectual & emotional > challenge of being with the others more appealing than being alone or with > more placid companions. He seems to enjoy the verbal sparring with Blake and > Vila, especially. NOT near the center by any means. I'm a 9/10 Introvert myself, but I don't want to be utterly alone in the universe. My idea of social bliss is a small handful of people who I actually like meeting about once a week, a husband who tends to let me do things my own way, a cat, and the Internet. And what do you know, I've got bliss> My brother, who is even more Introverted than I am, and therefore must be a 10, needs a little non-internet companionship, and is happy to have a girlfriend. Humans are social animals. Even hermits are glad to have some form of contact. Avon, as a strong I, does not make friends easily. And E, or borderline E, might have found it easier to leave, knowing they could be happy with any people they fell in with. I's hold on to friendships-- they are difficult things to find and maintain as it is. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:00:38 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D2DEB6.1186@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mistral@ptinet.net wrote: > > Kiersten Boughen wrote: > > > INTP's are also renown for never actually producing much with the knowledge > > they have aquiured. Keirsey and Bates describe them as architects who need > > others around them to actually turn their plans into a reality. (I can't > > give the exact quote as my copy of 'Please Understand Me' is sitting on a > > dock waiting to go to Auckland.) Avon does actually create something out of > > what he learned from the Sopron, more INTJ than P. However, taking into > > consideration his attitude towards the Sopron for the rest of the episode, > > which is very P, that puts him very border line P/J. OTOH we never see or > > hear of the Sopron again so that would tip the balance over to P. . > > Yes, Yes! Which reminds me of something I forgot to say: We do see Avon indulge > in J-ish goal-oriented or productive behaviour from time to time (i.e. the use > of the Sopron, 'Rumors', 'Terminal', etc.); but in [almost] every case those are > short-term behaviours, and would fall into the INTP's obsessive phase, when the > idea is all-consuming. INTPs are, in fact, able to complete projects that can be > resolved within very short time periods, while the initial thrill of engagement > is still on. > I'm going to say "j" on the Sopron thing. He made a special trip to pick up that rock, when no one else knew what he wanted it for. Clearly, it wasn't ssome fascinating thing that he stumbled across, but something he had a general plan in mind for. So he went out, got it, studied it, used it-- what he did with it after, who knows? Used it to boost power output by reflecting the Liberator's power source? Sold it to a high bidder? Who knows? Maybe he just thought it would keep Cally's pet moondisk company. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:22:56 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: <199902231621.KAA06679@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" mistral@ptinet.net wrote: >Actually, for an INTP, I'm not very creative (of course, I think actually INTJs >are supposed to have the edge there). Not really; creativity is tied mostly closely to the N trait, so it's more a matter of how N you are. INTPs and INTJs both exhibit creativity, though in somewhat different styles. - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:21:07 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: <199902231621.KAA06675@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kathryn Andersen wrote: >Here's another question which puzzles me - is Cally INFJ or INFP? >She's definitely INF, but again we have this J/P thing. The problem with Cally was that she was portrayed so inconsistently. In her original incarnation, I would place her as INFJ. However, as time went one she sort of mutated into an INFP. I guess you can take your choice as to which was the more intrinsic Cally. - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:19:56 -0800 From: "Ann Basart" To: "Blake's7" Subject: [B7L] Rx B7 Message-Id: <199902231721.JAA12015@mercury.dnai.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Two people on the list have recently mentioned the antidepressant effect of watching B7: Mistral wrote: “Watching Blakes 7 is how I self-medicate against severe, chronic depression. . .” Someone else (sorry, I’ve lost the posting) wrote that an antidote to depression was watching two eps of B7 and having coffee. I agree, and perhaps others of you do, too. My question to those of you who share this experience is, Why is this the case? Ann abasart@dnai.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:41:04 From: Penny Dreadful To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990223114104.2ae7e8fa@mail.geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Neil wrote: >...apparently I'm an INTP for all that's worth. So I'm a wierdo >loser haunted by an impending sense of failure, am I? It has been pointed out to me that considering INTPs are alleged to be such a rarity the Internet certainly seems to be acrawl with them. Us. Whatever. And I certainly must say "we" seem to be rather overrepresented among the people on this list who've 'fessed up to their M-B Classifications. Particularly considering it certainly does seem to be the Booby Prize of the bunch. So I have to wonder if the test is at least in part measuring whether or not you're the kind of person who would voluntarily take such a test... And I don't think Avon's an INTP, either. I'm voting with the "J"-team. --Penny "Bad Hair Life" Dreadful ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:59:43 From: Penny Dreadful To: "B7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990223115943.09e76030@mail.geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alison said: >I am also gripped by Lisa's insight in calling Travis ISTJ. I had >never thought of it and I think it's great. Interesting (like Data) the >metaphor of a simulation of biological life, in one case benign and in the >other malign. "Your plastic pal who's fun to be with!" Well, we know Mr. Data was fun for Yar to be with, anyhow...uh-oh, shut up Penny or they'll begin to suspect that all protestations to the contrary you actually *are* a Trekkie... --Penny "Live Long And Prosper" Dreadful ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:19:39 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Roche limit Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 23 Feb, Iain Coleman wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Judith Proctor wrote: > > > Iain, > > > > Fancy a flip chart (or possibly an OHP depending on the room) and a time slot to > > talk about Roche's limit and any other good scientific conundrums in B7? (We > > couldn't get the images onto the web unless someone had a handy digital camera > > though) > > > > I don't know if many people would come (simply because it would be on the > > noticeboard and not in the programme book) but if there's interest, it would > > seem to be worth doing. > > I'm game. I don't want to give a lecture or anything - for various > reasons, not least that I don't have time to prepare. However, I think a > workshop format could be fun. I could lead off the discussion on science > in B7, and the group as a whole could come up with whatever explanations, > rationalisations or barely plausible retcons present themselves. Sounds like fun. Working on that basis, do you want to do it in a programme room or in the social space outside the main hall? (Near the second bar when it's open in the afternoons...) Tell you what, take a look at the programme when you arrive and pick the spot you'd like to have. You'll be able to see whan individual rooms/the Mountbatten foyer are free. Tell me/Steve and we'll fix it (I'll be on the radio net if you can't find me, so registration will be able to get me). Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:07:51 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB49@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain I wrote: > >Or are there any ISTJ characters on B7? > and Lisa answered: > Travis. > > There, that made you feel better, didn't it? > Actually, last night I was thinking that the mutoids might be ISTJ's. But now that it's become known that I'm a dangerous megalomaniac (hi, Penny ;-) ), I might as well enjoy it. So, Penny, what was that message to pope Bill all about? Us megalomaniacs don't take kindly to having our religious leaders giving in to the opposition. You know what happened when Travis felt betrayed by Servalan! Or is this a secret plot, where you send Offler to Bill with those plowshares in its grinning jaws? Here ya go, Bill, just an innocent little present, please don't take note of the bearer (or its teeth). Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:13:44 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar Message-ID: <199902231414_MC2-6B94-D57F@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alison wrote: >In other word's I'd like to see Harriet's platonic version of Julius Caesar. Nothing Platonic about it. Strictly Epicurean. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:11:08 -0600 (CST) From: Susan.Moore@uni.edu To: BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-id: <01J831I97GJ68X08OM@uni.edu> Okay, I admit it. When I took the MBTI test, the results said "INTP". I think we've been undercounted as part of the master plan for taking over the world. Susan M. "Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky?" "I think so, Brain, but how are we going to get tube socks on a Great Dane?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:13:46 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Myers Briggs Message-ID: <199902231414_MC2-6B94-D581@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Calle replied to Mistral: >> What I *really* want to know is, how does >>this relate to the panda in the frig? > >Sshh! Don't mention him! It's quite safe, I looked in the fridge and he was invisible. In a completely different part of the Myers Briggs wood, Mistral wrote: >But there's this image that flashes into my mind of Soolin >saying 'But Avon, you lie so well', and Avon looking dismayed. He lies appallingly. See the end of Gambit. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:25:11 -0500 From: "Kimberly D. Ashford" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <0c13b3426191729CPIMSSMTPU09@email.msn.com> >>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Alison Page wrote: >> >>> >>> [*] For instance a >>> discussion thread was 'how do you recognise ENTJ types'. I thought of >>> Servalan, and said 'dress in an intimidating manner, often have severe >>> haircuts, use their physical appearance consciously to get their own >way', >>> which was apparently a good answer. >> >>Oh my God, my brother is Servalan. I feel all queasy. >> >>Iain >> > > >Oh no, I guess that means that I am too! But I'm _not_ cutting my hair. :) > > >Kim >thesseli@msn.com >----- >Visit the Starbucket website at >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/5508/stories.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:25:57 -0500 From: "Kimberly D. Ashford" To: Subject: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <0ed122227191729CPIMSSMTPU02@email.msn.com> >>>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Alison Page wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> [*] For instance a >>>> discussion thread was 'how do you recognise ENTJ types'. I thought of >>>> Servalan, and said 'dress in an intimidating manner, often have severe >>>> haircuts, use their physical appearance consciously to get their own >>way', >>>> which was apparently a good answer. >>> >>>Oh my God, my brother is Servalan. I feel all queasy. >>> >>>Iain >>> >> >> >>Oh no, I guess that means that I am too! But I'm _not_ cutting my hair. >:) >> >> >>Kim >>thesseli@msn.com >>----- >>Visit the Starbucket website at >>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/5508/stories.html > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:27:45 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D30F41.F862EA8F@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In a completely different part of the Myers Briggs wood, Mistral wrote: > > >But there's this image that flashes into my mind of Soolin > >saying 'But Avon, you lie so well', and Avon looking dismayed. > > He lies appallingly. See the end of Gambit. I think I have been the victim of a sound bite (or its e-list equivalent). The next sentence of my post starts: "Actually, I don't think he does--..." :-) Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila I just hope they're iambic and not trochaic!--M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:28:42 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/22/99 10:18:15 PM Mountain Standard Time, mistral@ptinet.net writes: << FWIW, Avona, I've been wondering for your last few posts if you weren't another P trying to pass as a J. The planning can be a learned compensatory behaviour; I'm a nearly compulsive listmaker (although I almost never cross everything off before making a new list). >> Amen! I've discovered over time that planning can be as obsessive a task any anything else. In my case, what makes me a P instead of a J is that, while I plan stuff to death, the actual execution of the plan is liable to be questionable at best. My psyche just can't seem to grasp deadlines and timetables -- my sense of time is very closely related to how much fun I'm having. Nina "The reason I never get anything done is that there's always something else I have to do first." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:28:47 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/23/99 9:26:35 AM Mountain Standard Time, avona@jps.net writes: << Maybe he just thought it would keep Cally's pet moondisk company. >> Well, that's probably where it wound up after he'd figured it out and got bored with it. Nina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:28:44 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/23/99 5:34:20 AM Mountain Standard Time, mistral@ptinet.net writes: << Russ Massey wrote: >> The only major characters who use their allure as a weapon in B7 are >> Servalan and Tarrant (a little), I would say. I don't see Avon as >> pretending to seduce women to get what he wants. > Hmmm, Russ. Depends on how you define seduce. Did you see Aftermath? Power? >***Sarcophagus***? Avon's whole twisted relationship with Servalan? He > certainly was aware of his masculinity as a *weapon* in series' C and D-- > and I can offer you several plausible explanations for the apparent change, > none of which have to do with Paul Darrow being allowed more artistic > license. (Which I won't bore you with unless you really want them.) Oh, and > actually the change started very slowly in series A, and only *accelerated* > after Blake left. >> That's a subject that could NEVER be boring!! Give! Nina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:30:56 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <19990224073056.48514@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Feb 23, 1999 at 01:11:08PM -0600, Susan.Moore@uni.edu wrote: > Okay, I admit it. When I took the MBTI test, the results said "INTP". > I think we've been undercounted as part of the master plan for taking > over the world. I'm beginning to suspect that the INTx's are the only ones on this List *taking* the Myers-Briggs tests! Everyone else thinks the thread is boring, and isn't bothering. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:54:22 GMT0BST From: "VJC" To: Kathryn Andersen Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <23D1EBA44D2@OU20.nwservers.iso.port.ac.uk> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > > > The most perennial MBTI controversy is whether Avon is INTJ or INTP. I plump > > fair and square for INTJ, on the basis that INTP types are far too mild > > mannered. Like I said before. THEY ARE NOT!!! INTJs on the other hand are just as aloof as the INTPs, the only difference being the inrtoversion of their feeling function. It is unlikely therefore to be demontrated outwardly for good or bad in the same way that an INTP might erupt dramatically. You may even get the impression that an INTJ has no feelings whatsoever. Not even anger.> > Whether or not Avon is rude enough to be INTJ, he *must* be a J rather > than a P, because he's such a *planning* person. He doesn't have to > be a strong J, but he's definitely a J. > But were his *plans* really any good? Like any INTP, Avon kept his options open and had the power to improvise. To an INTP, people (socially speaking) are not so much company, even less so friends, but simply conduits for the passage of information. Vick Why does my ENFJ associate's father not trust me with an airgun? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:39:27 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D3200E.8F38453E@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pherber@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/22/99 10:18:15 PM Mountain Standard Time, > mistral@ptinet.net writes: > > << FWIW, Avona, I've been wondering for your last few posts if you weren't > another P trying > to pass as a J. The planning can be a learned compensatory behaviour; I'm a > nearly > compulsive listmaker (although I almost never cross everything off before > making a new list). >> > > Amen! I've discovered over time that planning can be as obsessive a task any > anything else. In my case, what makes me a P instead of a J is that, while I > plan stuff to death, the actual execution of the plan is liable to be > questionable at best. My psyche just can't seem to grasp deadlines and > timetables -- my sense of time is very closely related to how much fun I'm > having. > > Nina > "The reason I never get anything done is that there's always something else I > have to do first." :D Nina! Everything you just said is so P. Some kinds of planning can be viewed as system-designing, which is a major skill of INTP, according to Keirsey's second book. That makes it almost a form of play for us, quite different from following the plan, which, depending on what the plan actually is, might be considered work. Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:37:04 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Charged with attempted filking... Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB4A@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Joanne asked: > Jacqueline, are you really that bad at singing? > Well, so far the requests for me to stop singing (or to "stop that bloody yammering", as some have put it), outnumber the requests to start by a landslide. There might be a clue in that. :-) Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:26:49 -0000 From: "Julie Horner" To: Subject: [B7L]Gareth on TV Message-ID: <004e01be5f7b$9bbfb180$396845c2@orac> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just seen Gareth Thomas in the new advert for Warburton's bread. It's a kind of sweet father and son thing but unfortunately they don't use his voice for the voice over. I guess he doesn't sound Lancastrian enough. Still - nice ad. Seen it yet Judith? Or hang on, maybe you don't get Warburton's bread in Dorset... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:23:07 -0700 (MST) From: Penny Dreadful To: Subject: [B7L] Maniacal Surrender (was: Myers-Briggs) Message-Id: <199902232223.PAA14055@pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline said: >Actually, last night I was thinking that the mutoids might be ISTJ's. But >now that it's become known that I'm a dangerous megalomaniac... No -- Servalan may be a megalomaniac, but Travis is just a maniac. So you identify with mutoids? Hmm. Do you dream of electric sheep? ..Does Travis? (And can we work it into the Flat Robin somehow?) >Or is this a secret plot, where you send Offler to Bill with those >plowshares in its grinning jaws? Here ya go, Bill, just an innocent little >present, please don't take note of the bearer (or its teeth). Just to be on the safe side, I'd be sure and conceal Offler in a wooden Liberator. Anyone who wants to take up the FINALACT torch should feel free -- hint hint Jacqueline you scary singer you -- but *seriously* I got the impression the War Of The Traves was getting on their nerves along with my giddiness in general, so I decided to surrender unequivocally and henceforth direct all my wit 'n' wisdom over here, you lucky people you, until such time as I can find something Meaningful to say about Blake, Avon, and a quart of Mazola (I'd say a bucket of shmaltz, but I'm a *vegetarian* sociopath). Or until Calle pays me to go away. --Penny "PG-13" Dreadful ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:33:29 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D32CB9.D6287F32@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First I, then Avona said (re Avon P/J and his pet rock): > > Yes, Yes! Which reminds me of something I forgot to say: We do see Avon indulge > > in J-ish goal-oriented or productive behaviour from time to time (i.e. the use > > of the Sopron, 'Rumors', 'Terminal', etc.); but in [almost] every case those are > > short-term behaviours, and would fall into the INTP's obsessive phase, when the > > idea is all-consuming. INTPs are, in fact, able to complete projects that can be > > resolved within very short time periods, while the initial thrill of engagement > > is still on. > > > I'm going to say "j" on the Sopron thing. He made a special trip to pick > up that rock, when no one else knew what he wanted it for. Clearly, it > wasn't ssome fascinating thing that he stumbled across, but something he > had a general plan in mind for. So he went out, got it, studied it, used > it-- what he did with it after, who knows? Used it to boost power output > by reflecting the Liberator's power source? Sold it to a high bidder? > Who knows? Maybe he just thought it would keep Cally's pet moondisk > company. Well Avona, I can agree that he thought it was useful, but 1) I'm not sure that he knew what he was going to do with it; he didn't have a specific plan for whatever minerals they were after on the asteroid they were headed for at the beginning of Sarcophagus; and 2) if he found out about it from some outside source, that knew enough about the Sopron to make him want to go after it, surely its properties and uses would be known, and he wouldn't have had to analyze it so thoroughly, and quite probably Servalan (or her computers) would have known that it was on the planet Liberator was orbiting, and not been fooled by it. Perhaps the scanners just detected something unusual on a nearby planet, and Avon said, let's go look, like he did at Ultraworld-- very P-ish. Even if he made a special trip for it, if it was curiosity and not a specific use in mind, that's still not J behaviour, that's P. (IMHO, or IMnotsoHO, depending on your point of view, of course.) having just realized how dangerous disagreeing with Avona could be! 8-P Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:34:41 -0000 From: "Julie Horner" To: Subject: [B7L]Why Servalan was so disagreeable Message-ID: <005001be5f7c$b482b180$396845c2@orac> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just developed this theory as to why Servalan grew so tetchy. Listen to the scenes in her office in Space Command HQ. Can you here that distinctive background noise? I first noticed it in Star One and, although I haven't yet checked all my videos, it seems to be there in all the series two episodes. There is a sort of a hum - some people may call it a whine, It is not steady, at least not to my ears, but kind of oscillating. When I first heard it I thought it was bad weather outside and turned down the volume to listen, then I realised it was actually Space Command. Is it the engine noise? The air conditioning? Any other ideas? All I know is that when you have noticed it it is really irritating, like a flourescent light that won't stop flickering or a colleague who won't stop chewing their pen top. If she had to listen to that all day every day no wonder she got a bit short tempered and hankered after career advancement to get her away from that damn noise.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:33:28 EST From: Mac4781@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] game stats and J. Caesar Message-ID: <657de471.36d31098@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Russ wrote: > Well he's very chivalric but at the same time I would say is attitude to > the female crew-members is only just short of active flirtation. Not that I saw. He had the look of a deer caught in headlights when Dayna suggested they perform the human bonding ceremony. I think he pretty much viewed all of his shipmates as just shipmates. Maybe it was a carryover from his military training. I hate to lower Tarrant's stats even further (especially since you judged him way too low in both strength and intelligence ), but Avon was far more aware of his sexuality than Tarrant was. Which is fine by me. A minority of us find choirboys to be much more appealing than rogue pirates. I think a very telling sequence that shows the difference between Avon and Tarrant is how they "interact" with the bond bombshell in "Gold." Avon gives her a look that has Alpha-male-in-heat written all over it. Tarrant interacts in the manner of that choirboy mentioned above. Even beyond the fact that he was faking drugged bliss. Harriet wrote: > Funnily enough, I started trying to cast it while cooking dinner, and did > eventually decide to give Michael the part of Anthony, partly because I > thought it would be a nice change for him to get a rather glamorous role. > Even though I happen to hate Antony. I was originally pencilling in Steven > Pacey for MA, but then decided to shift him to Octavius, as the young > interloper... thanks, Carol, for confirming that choice too. The synchronicity that sometimes occurs in fandom can be mind boggling. Great idea to cast some of the women in male roles, Harriet. I don't remember seeing her cast yet, but I think Jackie would make a wonderful Julius Caesar. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:46:08 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Re Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D32FB0.9DF3DE76@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VJC wrote: > > From: "Jonathan" > > > "INTPs are relatively easy-going and amenable to most anything until their principles are violated, about which they may become outspoken and inflexible. They prefer to return, however, to a reserved> > > - this is Avon ? Vick look at the fmous intp list there and show me *one* person who reminds you of Avon. ( Einstein ? Jung ? )Whereas : > > Avon was a stressed man in a position he should never have been in. > Put another INTP in his situation, and expect the same result. More than that, he was in exactly the situation the typelogic comment describes. His principles were being violated *constantly*, first by Blake, then by Tarrant, and even occasionally by Cally. If he hadn't been trapped into fighting a rebellion, he'd have had better things to do with his time and a more even temper. (And IMHO, more Einstein than Hannibal Lecter). Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:07:39 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Mary Sues (was Re: [B7L] Fannishness) Message-ID: <19990223230740.8169.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Neil wrote: >I wrote one story (Hunter, in Star Two) which had no less than _four_ >'original, plot-significant (female) characters' and at least as many >original plot-significant male ones. I don't think anyone mistook that >for a Mary-Sue. I'm having a hard time remembering anything vaguely Mary-Sueish about those characters Anyway, how often, can someone tell me, are Mary-Sues substance abusers? But I did wonder how many times you'd seen "Alien", although strange and dangerous entity taking over a spaceship must've been extremely familiar territory to many SF fans by the time that film was made. >Avoid new characters altogether? No No NO. [snip] For Gruds's >sake, there's a whole great galaxy beyond the hull of the Liberator, >but too many fan writers don't want to know about it - deliberately. >They actively resist acknowledging its existence, or speculating on >what it might be like, let alone how it works. [snip again] Out of the three Judith Seaman stories Pat Fenech lent me last year, the one I enjoyed most was "One of the lesser hawks". While the idea of traders operating just this side of the law must be as old as smuggling and tax avoidance themselves, the story does explore what some people do to get by in the Federation's grip. So, to an extent, I agree with you, Neil, as under normal circumstances I'd run a mile (and I run very badly ) from stories described as "wallows". However, there are times when I see Carol's point of view very clearly as well, and would be happy to read something where the colour of the carpet, let alone the colour of the politics, is of lesser importance. I may be entirely misunderstanding you, Neil, but you aren't attempting to suggest that there's something wrong with stories that stick purely to the main characters? Or merely that you see far too many stories that do this and long for a bit more variety? It would be interesting to hear what is actually the case. Regards Joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:19:38 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] A filk for Vila Message-ID: <19990223231938.3121.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Hopefully, I've got this out of my system now. But if there's a next time, remind me to pick something that most people know... Drink Now, Grieve Later (Vila No 2) (tune: Buy Now Pay Later (Charlie No 2) by The Whitlams) Vila you're not my Vila anymore You've had far too much You're playing the fool with the rest of the crew looking on If I could get inside your head, I would talk it through with you How you're not the only one who's feeling her loss If you don't believe me, I don't believe in you If you don't believe me, I don't believe in you Soma makes you better, does it? Drinking feels like Heaven, does it? You bicker and you drink accordingly. You can't remember now You can't remember now You can't remember now You'll try and you'll fail It haunts you like a little stray And feeds upon your heart's desires And scares you while you're still asleep You drink now and grieve later But there's no problem, you keep saying, 'cause you still can stand up But the watch is long and you're falling asleep by the screen Avon's going crazy 'round you and I'm not far behind Do you care about yourself anymore? If you don't believe me etc. You drink now and grieve later Regards Joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:01:09 EST From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Run for the hills... Message-ID: <6213880f.36d33335@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is great, Joanne. Bring on the next one. Tiger M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:49:45 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D33E98.1DE932BE@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathryn Andersen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 23, 1999 at 01:11:08PM -0600, Susan.Moore@uni.edu wrote: > > Okay, I admit it. When I took the MBTI test, the results said "INTP". > > I think we've been undercounted as part of the master plan for taking > > over the world. > > I'm beginning to suspect that the INTx's are the only ones on this > List *taking* the Myers-Briggs tests! Everyone else thinks the thread > is boring, and isn't bothering. Possibly because everybody expects it to be that old Avon P/J thread? I did pick up on that, because it's the only one I feel really comfortable with addressing, having studied that particular issue with regard to myself. But I am willing to discuss any and all other types and characters. Perhaps if the headers said what types were being discussed, it might generate some interest. Hmm? :) Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:19:28 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Just one question... Message-ID: <19990224001928.12646.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain ...how do these numbers you get work? For example, I've just taken both forms of the sorter at Keirsey's site again. These are the results: INFP INFP I 10/10 I+10 N+14 F+12 P+6 P 7/10 NT=34 NF=38 SJ=33 SP=36 I think if I and others knew what was going on there, there might be more comprehension of whether or not Avon or any other character was strongly this or that or the other. Short of reading the book, of course, which I can't do right now. Regards Joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #77 *************************************