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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 56
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] clones and Auron
Re: [B7L] hodge podge
Re: [B7L] hodge podge - Avon's manners, so to speak
Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] hodge podge - Avon's manners, so to speak
Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation
[B7L] economy?
Re: [B7L] economy?
Re: [B7L] economy?
Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation
Re: [B7L] economy?
Re[B7L] economy
Re: [B7L] clones and Auron
Re: [B7L] Blake
Re: [B7L] Blake
Re: [B7L] economy?
Re: [B7L] clones and Auron
[B7L]
RE: [B7L] economy?
[B7L] Flat Robin Misc. (was: economy?)
Re: [B7L] economy?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:48:12 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] clones and Auron
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0208084812-313Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Sun 07 Feb, AChevron@aol.com wrote:
> It would seem the accelerated development is a nessacary part of the
> process, for whatever reason. I rather shudder to think what this does
> mentally and emotionally to the clones. An alleviating factor would be the
> psionic enhancement, which could serve as a surrogate for the maternal
> presence, so to speak.
I'm with Neil in that I think the acelerated development is an option rather
than a necessity. Presumably an artificial gestation system doesn't have to
expend a large proportion of its energy on keeping the mother alive.
However, as you say, there must be drawbacks. My gut feeling is that
accelerated development would lead to a shoeter lifespan. I'm basing this
mostly on gut feeling, though there is research to show that mice kept on the
edge of starvation live significantly longer. If I equate accelerated growth
with the reverse, then a short lifespan could be indicated.
This could explain why Cally apparantly had a childhood as the Auronar wanted
functional adults, wheras the Clonemasters had to produce something quickly for
Servalan. (The best fan story that touches on this theme is Suzan Lovett's
'Doppleganger' in 'The Road to Hell')
I don't see cloning as causing psionic ehancement. Blake and his two clones
showed no sign of any pisionic ability. I think the Aurons made a genetic
alteration to the eggs that they cloned. It could even be the reason why they
adopted cloning. If the genetic alteration was a difficult one, it would make
better sense to clone when they were successful that to keep on trying with new
eggs. Telepathy was not widespread in the original Auron population.
In fact, at the moment, I'm envisioning Auron as a bit like Nazi Germany, with a
strong eugenics programme and lots of other things implied by that. It even
explains Auron's isolationist stance - other races are inferior and we don't
want to be contaminated by them. Perhaps one of the reasons why Cally left was
because she couldn't swallow that attitude.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:16:04 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] hodge podge
Message-ID: <Cn8HBEA06hv2EwLP@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <19990207213852.1167.qmail@hotmail.com>, Joanne MacQueen
<j_macqueen@hotmail.com> writes
>But an adult, Julia, an adult. Weren't you irritated at all by someone
>practically getting away with murder, who just happened to be a grownup?
>(Well, <grin> less juvenile anyway!)
A grownup *geek*.
I had *no* trouble identifying with Avon...
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:43:18 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] hodge podge - Avon's manners, so to speak
Message-ID: <19990208214319.17082.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Ah, but by confessing to trolling I was actually disguising the fact
that >I wasn't really trolling at all. And I wasn't, really.
That's fine, Neil. All I meant was that if I hear anything going <grin>
trip trap over rickety bridges, I'll know in future. If I'm listening
properly, of course, or there's nothing wrong with my ears that day.
Better still, hearing Vila complaining about having to cross the bridge
in the first place <smile> That'd certainly be a striking warning!
Regards
Joanne
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:29:32 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] hodge podge - Avon's manners, so to speak
Message-ID: <nrzdsEAM0yv2Ew$c@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <36BE2952.561D@jps.net>, Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
writes
>Gan, I think, was used to bad manners from superior grades when they
>were actually around, and didn't necessarily take offense because that's
>just the way things usually were.
And Avon was pretty egalitarian in his rudeness...
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:05:12 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation
Message-ID: <19990209080512.15353@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sun, Feb 07, 1999 at 06:42:39PM +0100, Judith Proctor wrote:
> On Sun 07 Feb, Helen Krummenacker wrote:
> > Has anyone ever worked with a story where Avon _was_ political himself
> > at one time? The Federation thought he was or they wouldn't have
> > assigned Bartolomew to 'run' him. Further, he must have been doing
> > something to attract their attention _before_ 'Bartolomw' was assigned,
> > since B. was Anna, and Avon's motive was supposedly to take her with him
> > into the realm of the 'too rich to touch'.
>
> There have been several takes on this. There's a slash plot (sometimes done as
> gen too) that comes up now and then which is one of my favourites. Avon and
> Blake were lovers or close friends pre-series and when Blake's memory was
> altered, Avon's was too. Because Avon didn't have the trauma of seeing his
> friends shot all over again, he didn't recover his memory when Blake did.
> Depending on the story, Blake does/does not recover his memory of Avon until
> something happens to trigger it.
Well, in Ana Dorfstad's "Pattern of Infinity" trilogy (I think that's
where it is) there is a hint that Avon's embezzling scheme *was*
political, because if he actually *brought down* the Federation
Banking System (as opposed to just stealing a lot of money), then
there would be chaos in the Federation, far more than just blowing up
a few installations.
> > Why was he afraid of being 'touched' by the Federation? Obviously, he
> > was aware of its attitude toward people who upset the status quo in any
> > way, and believed that he might be seen as a threat.
>
> Another theory is that in a time of political crisis, any serious crime would be
> seen as possibly political. eg. Avon wanted large sums of money - they might
> have been afraid that he wanted to supply terrorist groups with it.
See above.
> Judith's brand new theory is that Anna told them he was political so that she
> could stay assigned to his case for longer. If it had been just embezzlement,
> they'd have pulled him in as soon as he was detected. If he was political,
> they'd leave him watched in case he contacted other people.
Well, I've also come across a story where Anna was really a double
agent, and she set up Avon, and told her bosses he was political, in
order to provide a distraction while other rebels carried out another
plan (to rescue some rebel leader, I think). The rebel plan failed,
but in the meantime, Avon had fallen in love with Anna (and Anna with
him), and decided to go ahead with the embezzeling scheme anyway.
Which of course was doomed to failure.
> > Could it be his reluctance to follow Blake may have had its roots in
> > direct experience-- an interest in rebellion/ political dissent that had
> > previously been disappointed? It would be very interesting if Avon had
> > been attracted to Blake's original Freedom Party (was that the right
> > name?) until Blake publically recanted its efforts.
One that I've come across (an Avon's childhood series which the
author, unfortunately, only wrote a few stories of, but she told me
the plot for the others, and then never wrote them) said that Avon was
the son of a famous rebel, and it took over the life of his family.
Their father was so busy rebelling, never had any time for them, they
were always on the run, changing their names (Avon is not his real
name), always poor, and he was brought up never to trust anyone,
because they couldn't afford for their youngest son to unwittingly
betray them.
I think that all fits together rather well. His lack of trust, his
obsession with money, his contempt for idealists...
(People who are brought up rich are not obsessed with money. They
take it for granted. Therefore Avon was poor. Alpha, but poor.)
> > Obviously, Avon has always been the sort to try to keep the risks
> > minimal by hiding his sympathies, but isn't their a saying about a cynic
> > being an idealist with experience?
Ah, yes.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 20:19:18 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] economy?
Message-ID: <36BFA936.2DED@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tigerm1019@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 99-02-08 02:19:41 EST, Judith wrote:
>
> << Another theory is that in a time of political crisis, any serious crime
> would be
> seen as possibly political. eg. Avon wanted large sums of money - they might
> have been afraid that he wanted to supply terrorist groups with it.>>
>
> Even if his embezzlement wasn't politically motivated, I think it was on a
> grand enough scale to have potetially caused quite a bit of disruption in the
> federation banking system.
That's another thing. 5 million was 'so rich no one could touch us', and
yet a '10 credit touch' is a very cheap prostitute. What would it take
to be untouchably rich in our society? More than 5 million, in America.
50 million would be the absolute minimum. When would make a 10 credit
floozy be charging the equivalent of 100 dollars minimum. Seems easy
virtue makes good money in the Federation.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 20:33:13 PST
From: "Penny Dreadful" <pdreadful@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] economy?
Message-ID: <19990209043314.11201.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Avona said:
>That's another thing. 5 million was 'so rich no one could touch us',
and
>yet a '10 credit touch' is a very cheap prostitute. What would it take
>to be untouchably rich in our society? More than 5 million, in America.
>50 million would be the absolute minimum. When would make a 10 credit
>floozy be charging the equivalent of 100 dollars minimum. Seems easy
>virtue makes good money in the Federation.
Maybe "ten-credit touch" hung on as an insult, even when it was no
longer an accurate economic assessment, because it was a catchy phrase
-- the way the punchline to the World's Oldest Joke was still "Five
dollars, Father, same as in Town" last time I heard it; the way the
2-dollar bill remained anathema to Albertans till the day of its demise
because that's what (presumably cheap) whores used to go for several
generations ago. So perhaps since the phrase became entrenched the
Credit has actually *increased* in its buying power -- maybe it has been
revaluated like the Peso or the Deutchmark (I'm on shaky ground here in
the land of Socioeconomics), so now a Cheap Little Space Tramp (tm) can
be yours for, say, one credit, but "one-credit touch" just trip as
nicely off the tongue. "Half-Credit whore" could catch on in
time...assuming they really *are* all somehow still speaking
20th-century English. Hmm. Next!
P.S. People, don't force *me* by dint of your apathy to contribute to
the Flat Robin just to keep it alive. It'd be uglier than you could ever
possibly imagine, but I swear to you I am not above dropping Travis and
his Mutoid Harem into a nearby quarry if it comes to that. And Servalan
mais oui -- wearing something absolutely *fabulous*...
--Penny "The Wrath Of Corn" Dreadful
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:25:30 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] economy?
Message-ID: <19990209202530.08266@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 08:19:18PM -0700, Helen Krummenacker wrote:
> Tigerm1019@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 99-02-08 02:19:41 EST, Judith wrote:
> >
> > << Another theory is that in a time of political crisis, any serious crime
> > would be seen as possibly political. eg. Avon wanted large sums of
> > money - they might have been afraid that he wanted to supply terrorist
> > groups with it.>>
> >
> > Even if his embezzlement wasn't politically motivated, I think it
> > was on a grand enough scale to have potetially caused quite a bit
> > of disruption in the federation banking system.
>
> That's another thing. 5 million was 'so rich no one could touch us', and
> yet a '10 credit touch' is a very cheap prostitute. What would it take
> to be untouchably rich in our society? More than 5 million, in America.
> 50 million would be the absolute minimum. When would make a 10 credit
> floozy be charging the equivalent of 100 dollars minimum. Seems easy
> virtue makes good money in the Federation.
On the other hand, I remember someone pointed out to me that there
was, in fact, an inconsistancy in the amount that Avon was supposed to
have stolen. Vila says, in Spacefall, that it was 5 million.
However, the Ultra say, in Ultraworld, that it was *500* million.
One of them is obviously wrong, but you could argue either way as to
which one it was.
A) It was really 5 million.
Vila, being closer to the source, had his rumours correct. The Ultra
were just cruising aliens, how on earth would they know what the right
amount was? It got exaggerated in the retelling, somebody dropped a
couple of decimal points.
B) It was really 500 million.
Vila, after all, was only hearing rumours. The Federation, terrified
at what nearly happened, tried to hush it up and make the crime less
impressive than it was. (After all, they didn't want to give anybody
ideas...) The Ultra, on the other hand, could have gotten their
information first-hand. All they had to do was suck the brain of some
unfortunate passing Federation official who knew the truth, and they
would have the real facts, instead of Vila's rumours.
If it *was* 500 million, then that certainly would be untouchable
wealth -- unless it was such a huge amount that it wasn't actually
untouchable wealth, it was the ruin of the Federation economy; in
which case, the scheme would be insane, since Federation currency
would be suddenly worthless. *Unless*, of course, (a) ruin of the
Federation was the aim, rather than wealth, or (b) Avon had had a
scheme to convert the Federation currency into something more tangible
that would be worth a lot even in a collapsed economy.
Consider this puzzle also: Vila declared that Avon was the second-best
programmer in the Federation, and that the best was "the guy who
caught him". However, we find out later that Bartolemew had been put
onto Avon early on, because they thought Avon was political. And yet
Avon declared that one of his motivations for the scam was his love
for Anna, being "so rich that no-one could touch us". So what
happened first? Did he meet Anna first, or did he not? Was he caught
by a programmer at all, or was it Bartolemew who betrayed him?
Maybe Vila was simply *assuming* that Avon was caught by a programmer
because it was a computer crime.
Why *did* they think that Avon was political?
Kathryn A.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 20:30:36 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation
Message-ID: <36BFABDC.6797@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Kathryn Andersen wrote:
>
> Well, I've also come across a story where Anna was really a double
> agent, and she set up Avon, and told her bosses he was political, in
> order to provide a distraction while other rebels carried out another
> plan (to rescue some rebel leader, I think). The rebel plan failed,
> but in the meantime, Avon had fallen in love with Anna (and Anna with
> him), and decided to go ahead with the embezzeling scheme anyway.
> Which of course was doomed to failure.
That one sounds quite plausible, considering she managed to lead rebels
against the President and take the palace.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:54:12 EST
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] economy?
Message-ID: <d1daa84a.36c021e4@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 99-02-08 22:42:46 EST, you write:
<< hat's another thing. 5 million was 'so rich no one could touch us', and
yet a '10 credit touch' is a very cheap prostitute. >>
I've always thought that the amount involved was higher. In one episode, the
amount Avon was embezzling was mentioned at 500 million; an amount that would
certainly shake up the financial community considerably more than the 5
million attributed. I can see the Federation only admitting publically to the
lesser amount to avoid panic(especially if rumors got out of a major attempt).
Perhaps part of the deal for Avon suffering "merely" exile.....
Another aspect I've not seen addressed is the inflation factor. I've always
wondered about the amount of money the robbery in Gold brought the crew. The
amount just seems too excessive. But if post-war inflation had devalued the
credit, a shipment of gold once worth a few million might easily reach
billions. D. Rose
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:17:03 -0000
From: "Julie Horner" <julie.horner@lincolnsoftware.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re[B7L] economy
Message-ID: <01be5426$1a4bd3a0$170201c0@pc23.Fishnet>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Kathryn said:
>Consider this puzzle also: Vila declared that Avon was the
second-best
>programmer in the Federation, and that the best was "the
guy who
>caught him". However, we find out later that Bartolemew had
been put
>onto Avon early on, because they thought Avon was
political. And yet
>Avon declared that one of his motivations for the scam was
his love
>for Anna, being "so rich that no-one could touch us". So
what
>happened first? Did he meet Anna first, or did he not?
I can't help wondering about the Tynus connection.
We know he was involved in a scam with Avon, but was it the
big one for which he got caught or some previous scam which
he had apparently got away with?
Perhaps he (and Tynus) had been embezzling for some time
which was why
Bartolomew was on to him. He then fell for Anna and planned
the
scam to end all scams which was when he got caught.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:20:57 EST
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] clones and Auron
Message-ID: <72f942cd.36c02829@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
See if I can clarify some of my earlier statements. Neil disagrees with me
about the cloning process. I believe in my original statement, I indicated the
technology did exist prior to the Clone Masters, even if the Federation was
not around at the time. My suspicion though, is that whoever controlled the
Empire at that time created the Clone Masters to control the technology. The
fact that the knowledge had spread out made it impossible to eliminate the
techniques, but I see the Clone Master solution as 1) a way of limitting the
amount of cloning done, and 2) a precaution against other races or cultures
using cloning as a weapon; part of the Clone Masters' job was to defend Earth
against biological attack.
As Neil pointed out, no doubt the Federation could duplicate the technology,
but that there was a legal/cultural bias against it. Rather like the ST
universe with the backlash against the Eugenics War. I think at the point
where B7 takes up the story of that universe, the balance of power is being
rocked by the forces tearing at the Federation; the rise of the military in
the power struggle, the tensions pulling at the Outer Worlds to revolt. Thus
we see the Federation has developed biological weaponry; the fungus on
Destiny? The Auron Plague. If my theory is correct, Servalan struck at the
Clone Masters because they would have intervened in her plans with Auron.
As for the accelerated growth, the main reason I think this a nessacary
part of the process is that all of the instances we see cloning involve
accelerated growth. It may be it's just simpler to push out the clones
quickly, rather than tying up the resources for the normal 9 months.
The Aurons are also the only instance we see that the clones are only
developed to the infant stage. Perhaps the cloning process itself has no bad
side effects emotionally/psycologically, but the development into adulthood
does. The Clonemasters have had centuries to overcome this, or work around the
problems.
As for the psi factor involved, I still suspect that the process sharpens
it. This would be one of the hidden powers of the Clone Masters, making them a
much more potent guardian of the technology. It could also explain how they
could educate a Blake clone so quickly and thouroghly.
As for the Aurons, I think they did indeed start off as a relatively
"normal" human culture, albiet one where a larger percentage of the population
is carrying the "psi" gene. Over a period of centuries, they bred for the
talent, slowly increasing the size of the practicing telepaths. Then, as
Judith suggests, with the new cloning techniques they were able to stengthen
the talent.
My main arguement for the process itself sharpening the telepath ability is
Servalan. The Aurons had no reason to induce the telepathic changes in the
fetuses, and yet we see both the infants and Servalan displaying the talent.
Anyways, out of time, so I hope this clarifies my positon slightly. D. Rose
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:37:12 +0100
From: Murray Smith <mjsmith@tcd.ie>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake
Message-Id: <l03110702b2e5c3e5286b@[134.226.96.44]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
It was very interesting for me to read the posts regarding Blake
and the
question as to whether the child molesting charges had an effect on his
lack of allies. I asked why there was no mention in fan fiction of Blake
suffering, both on board the London and after, the fate of many convicted
child abusers or paedophiles who were exposed to publicity. The reason for
this question is because I am studying law and, as a part of our course, my
class had to visit a prison.
One of my fellow students asked the prison officer guiding us
around if prisoners were segregated on the basis of their crimes, and was
told no, except for one group: sex offenders, who were sent to a different
prison, as they were 'unpopular', to say the least, with the other
criminals.
The answers to my question were interesting and included the
following:
1. The charges didn't stick: The problem is that mud tends to stick, and
even if most people believed Blake, I'm sure that enough people believed in
the charges to given him and the others a hard time, both on the London and
after.
2. The surpressants: Like Judith Proctor, I'm 'not totally convinced', as
even if this stopped the other prisoners attacking Blake, they certainly
wouldn't have listened to any of his escape plans. Also, this doesn't
explain why there were no demonstrations of hostility to him and his crew
_after_ they left the London.
3. There are stories were Blake meets one or more of the children he was
supposed to have abused: This, as Judith pointed out, was not what I was
asking about. It appears that there is only one fanfic story concerning
'adults who regard him with suspicion and rapidly shuffle their children
out of sight'.
4. The 'rose-coloured glasses' explanation that Blake radiated an
impression of trustworthiness or goodness, taking up the issues of the
rights of the prisoners, thus earning their respect and belief in his
innocence: This is romantic and not only unconvincing, but indeed quite the
opposite. It is my understanding that the average child molester is not a
monster in appearance or behaviour, but quite the opposite, a person who
seems very trustworthy, so as to be able to do the molesting. The
Federation were very clever, as they used Blake's charisma to their
advantage in this regard.
The only explanation as to the lack of fanfiction in this area is probably,
to quote Judith: 'I can't imagine that many people would want to write
about one of their favourite characters having to go through that kind of
treatment'. The problem is that B7 is supposed to be a realistic science
fiction series; so it quite reasonable that Blake would suffer violence
from people who believed in his conviction.
Murray Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 06:30:35 PST
From: "Stephen Date" <stephendate@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake
Message-ID: <19990209143041.3746.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Judith wrote:
>
>Throughout the entire first season, Blake makes no attempt to gain
allies. He
>would apear to have no political ambitions at all....Allies and
political footwork would have seemed an obvious move for him.
I agree, it is a bit of a glaring omission. However Blake's
opportunities in this respect were limited. Space Command were the
hardliners in the Government, which meant that disaffected military
types were thin on the ground and there is no obviously anti-Federation
major power in the galaxy to back him. Where Blake does try to make
contact with the resistance the bad guys frequently get there first
(Time Squad, Project Avalon). However he must have made some contacts as
Avalon knows how to get hold of him.
>Usually I attribute it to bad script-writing
Surely not. You'll be telling us that the special effects were dodgy
next !
>but today it struck me that the original child-molesting charge
>against him could be a good enough reason on its own. ...Alta Morag
>knew what she was doing when she picked that crime to frame him with.
The child molestation is only mentioned once after the trial. Raiker
briefly raises the subject in Space Fall. By Seek-Locate-Destroy Blake's
name has become a "Rallying Cry for malcontents of all persuasions".
This implies that no-one took it seriously and such trumped up charges
were common. Avon takes it for granted in Pressure Point and Star One
that Blake will be the natural head of the Revolution after Control/
Star One is blown up. I don't think that would have been the case if
people seriously thought he was a child molester.
>Although Blake makes the occasional move to gain allies second >season,
such as in Horizon, he never tries politics until Voice From >the Past.
It is only when offered the chance to have the charges >against him
proved to be false that he becomes willing to join in a >political
attempt to defeat the Federation.
I think Blake avoided politics because his experiences with the Freedom
Party had taught him that the Federation was unreformable. The evidence
here seems to bear him out. Those who thought that it was tended to end
badly. Varon thought Blake's trial was an isolated scandal instead of
part of the system of government. Ven Glynd and Le Grand thought that a
speech at the Governors conference would do the trick - look what
happened to them.
Blake only allies himself with Ven Glynd and Le Grand when under the
influence of the little black box. Blake didn't want to reform the
Federation he wanted to destroy it. Personally I think he was right,
although I can understand Cally's reservations in Star One.
Stephen Date.
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:08:48 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] economy?
Message-ID: <004101be5447$5b6e0260$ea1aac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
One of those many plot ideas I never really managed to develop was a fuller
explanation of Avon's fraud which seeks to reconcile Spacefall and
Ultraworld. Avon was working for a third party and his five million was a
measly one percent cut of the full sum. Once he found out his role as fall
guy he set out to backstab his employers, who then put Central Security on
his tail.
If we take the ten-credit touch reference as a working baseline (though I
like Penny's catchphrase idea), then a credit is worth roughly two quid.
Would the loss of 500 million creds destabilise the Federation? Get real -
would the disappearance of a round billion from the Treasury's coffers wreck
the British economy? It would cause ripples and bring Gordon Brown under
fire from all quarters (except the Sun, of course), but the UK as a whole
would remain very much intact.
AChevron mentioned the inflation factor - I agree. In fact I thought I
commented to this effect in the Sevencyclopaedia but I can't find it under
the obvious entries (Credit, Money) so maybe I didn't.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:50:29 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] clones and Auron
Message-ID: <004001be5447$5abe8880$ea1aac3e@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>In fact, at the moment, I'm envisioning Auron as a bit like Nazi Germany,
with a
>strong eugenics programme and lots of other things implied by that. It
even
>explains Auron's isolationist stance - other races are inferior and we
don't
>want to be contaminated by them. Perhaps one of the reasons why Cally left
was
>because she couldn't swallow that attitude.
Judith, I don't in the slightest object to you or anyone else nicking my
ideas, but I do reserve the right to feel a bit miffed if you try to claim
them as your own. Especially when the story they appeared in has been in
print for a couple of years or so, and you were the one who commented
extensively on the first draft.
Now I'm _really_ looking forward to Redemption...
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:40:38 -0000
From: Sue Cowley-WW <sue.cowley@bbc.co.uk>
To: "'B7'" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L]
Message-Id: <A333E716FD05D211BC1B00805FD64F0C0200BF9E@WWLNX03>
unsub
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end
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:16:15 +0100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] economy?
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB03@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
Content-Type: text/plain
Penny threatened:
> P.S. People, don't force *me* by dint of your apathy to contribute to
> the Flat Robin just to keep it alive. It'd be uglier than you could ever
> possibly imagine, but I swear to you I am not above dropping Travis and
> his Mutoid Harem into a nearby quarry if it comes to that. And Servalan
> mais oui -- wearing something absolutely *fabulous*...
>
Woops, I've been out of e-mail range for the past two days, and am now dead
tired because of the course I've been taking during those two days. But I
will send in another chapter this week, honest! If possible the one Penny
channeled about, where Avon explains his presence on the outskirts of
Ankh-Morpork.
Jacqueline
Ps.: Penny, you were right, I had forgotten the name of the Mended Drum, and
left it out because of that. <sigh> Can't get away with anything on this
list.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:21:58 PST
From: "Penny Dreadful" <pdreadful@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Flat Robin Misc. (was: economy?)
Message-ID: <19990209182158.6862.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Jacqueline said:
>But I will send in another chapter this week, honest!
>If possible the one Penny channeled about, where Avon
>explains his presence on the outskirts of Ankh-Morpork.
Yay! Threats really *do* work! Although Arkaroo seems to have been
intrigued by my T & S concept so perhaps it will come to pass
regardless.
>Ps.: Penny, you were right, I had forgotten the name of the
>Mended Drum, and left it out because of that. <sigh> Can't
>get away with anything on this list.
Well actually what I meant was that I had come up with the name
'The Pullet and Whippet'. Hat. Hat. I wasn't deriding you but rather
complimenting my own puerile self. You know I think there really ought
to be a third (fourth?) B7 mailing list -- the Sniggering Sophomoric
Double-Entendre List, which would in its prurience level fall square
between the sterling wholesomeness prevailing Here and the anatomical
correctness favoured over at the Wretched Hive Of Scum And Villainy -- I
suppose I'd be the only one subscribed, though, so I might just as well
e-mail myself directly...
--Penny "Five Credits, Father, Same As In The Dome" Dreadful
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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 13:58:34 PST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] economy?
Message-ID: <19990209215835.12549.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Neil wrote: >If we take the ten-credit touch reference as a working
>baseline (though I like Penny's catchphrase idea), then a credit is
>worth roughly two quid. Would the loss of 500 million creds
>destabilise the Federation? Get real - would the disappearance of a
>round billion from the Treasury's coffers wreck the British economy?
Just translated this into Australian dollars. <grin> Quite apart from
making the sum involved even more risible than Neil is trying to
indicate, it makes a "10 credit touch" even cheaper than I imagine was
envisioned originally.
>AChevron mentioned the inflation factor - I agree.
Undoubtedly. We only have to look at the weird things inflation has done
to various currencies, especially after wars. Any further arguments I
think I'll leave to those with a better grounding in economics.
Regards
Joanne
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End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #56
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