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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 328
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Paul Darrow
Punishment for Desertion (was Re: [B7L] the Federation)
Re: [B7L] Paul Darrow
[B7L] Re: History & Critical Analysis of B7
Re: [B7L] Paul Darrow
[B7L] Paul Darrow - update
[B7L] Heartbeat
[B7L] Re: Punishment for Desertion
Re: [B7L] Re: Punishment for Desertion
[B7L] Story arcs
Re: [B7L] the Federation
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:41:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Paul Darrow
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1124124143-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Keep an eye out for a programme about Radio Times celebrating the web. I don't
know full details, but it may be on 29 November.
Paul Darrow should appear some time after 7.00 to talk about SF programmes.
The money is now all in for the TV movie and things are progressing slowly.
Thanks to Janet Darrow for this information.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:42:56 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Punishment for Desertion (was Re: [B7L] the Federation)
Message-ID: <19991124214256.A1580@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Tue, Nov 23, 1999 at 10:30:36PM -0000, Andrew Ellis wrote:
[snip]
> This is the one where Servalan gets Marriott posted as a deserter. TRAVIS
> (the Federation war machine who shows no remorse over dead civilians - just
> his training - honest) is horrified, because his family will suffer the
> consequences. What do we get out of this scene. Firstly, and obviously,
> Travis actually does have a heart. But more importantly, it was an
> unquestioned result of Servalan's actions against Marriott that there would
> be severe consequences for his family. So I am asking myself moral questions
> of a regime where the mechanics of the justice system automatically serve
> out sentences / fines / punishments on people who's only crime is to be
> related to a criminal (we don't know if that's a convicted criminal or not,
> but lets assume that it does). You could put forward arguments about
> Marriott and his family being within the military (where the standard of
> living is good), and that to be forced to leave was a really bad step
> (because the work to reward ratio is so much worse), tantamount to slavery.
[snip]
I don't follow this argument at all. I always assumed that the
punishment of the family of a deserter was a form of *deterrent*, to
*prevent* the crime of desertion. Desertion could be awfully tempting,
travelling to all these nice foriegn planets, running away to prevent
oneself being *killed*, and all that. The idea of one's family at
home being punished for one's crime would reduce the temptation a
great deal. The Federation is a military power, therefore it has to
keep its military strong, therefore they probably have the draft
(remember Vila's remark about faking his grade so he wouldn't be made
a space pilot and get killed?) and therefore have a lot of unwilling
soldiers.
Desertion, by its very nature, is a crime that (a) is quite easily
determined (Where's Fred? Hey, he's not here! He's absent without
leave -> he's deserted.) and (b) the trial must quite often be
conducted in absentia.
I always assumed that the punishment for desertion was not the *norm*
as far as punishments went - it would be *military* justice, and
military justice is usually harsher than civilian justice. Shot for
treason, jailed for murder. I would expect that a deserter, once
caught, would probably be shot. The slavery thing is "making an
example", so that *nobody* would be encouraged to do it.
Of course, the position of slavery in the Federation is not at all
clear, since as far as I can recall, it only gets mentioned three
times: in Weapon, in Deliverance/Orac, and in Assassin. Rashell is
the only slave we see, and she calls herself a "bond slave", which may
or may not be the same kind of slave as the slaves which are created
by the selling of deserters families into slavery. Perhaps the
Federation has some kind of debt-slavery, where someone who falls into
(too much) debt becomes a slave, perhaps only until they have paid
back the debt, or perhaps permanently. It could be only theoretically
"temporary" in that once one becomes a slave it really is not feasible
to actually earn one's own freedom because one's labour isn't set at a
high enough value to really be able to pay back the debt anyway.
But this is all speculation because we really don't know enough.
> the second kind. Perhaps joint and several liabilty is the norm within the
> Federation, being a computers natural extension of the principle that
> parents should pay for windows their children break, and that wives should
> pick up the bill for the husbands credit card bill.
It is a very traditional form of justice, if you know any history.
Just because it isn't modern, doesn't mean that it is "rotten to the
core".
Personally, I don't think that the fact that Marriot's *family* was
punished that is the worst thing - it is that the Federation practices
slavery at all.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:05:25 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Paul Darrow
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1124160525-c72Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Wed 24 Nov, Judith Proctor wrote:
> Keep an eye out for a programme about Radio Times celebrating the web. I don't
> know full details, but it may be on 29 November.
I just checked Radio Times when it came through my door and can't find anything
on 29 Nov. I'd guess that I misunderstood Janet and that she might have been
referring to one of these web chat sessions - in which case, the Radio Times web
site is the probable place to check.
>
> Paul Darrow should appear some time after 7.00 to talk about SF programmes.
JUdith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:13:38 -0800
From: Susie Wright <piscescat@home.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: History & Critical Analysis of B7
Message-ID: <383C2AD2.3DAEC331@home.com>
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I recently found this book on a B7 book list. I am not quite sure whether it is
published or not, but for me it looks as if it´s available.
History and Critical Analysis of" Blakes 7" , the 1978-81 British Television
Space Adventure
Has anybody ordered the book so far and is it worth the high price they charge
for it??
Hi Christina,
I have the book pre-ordered through Amazon.com so I can let you know once it
arrives. Amazon gave a publishing date of November '99 so it should arrive
soon. Here is the info:
A History and Critical Analysis of Blake's 7, the 1978-1981 British Television
Space Adventure
by John Kenneth Muir Our Price: $38.50
Book Description
Blake's 7, Terry Nation's science-fiction tale of cosmic freedom fighters, became
a hit series in Great Britain when it premiered in 1978. Eight years later, the
show quickly became a cult program in America. A dramatization of futuristic
outlaw heroes who defend the innocent from both alien and human conquering
forces, the series might better be said to be equal parts Robin Hood and The
Magnificent Seven. The series defied traditional genre elements of
science-fiction television, and developed the concept of the continual "story
arc" years before such shows as Babylon 5 and Deep Space Nine. This book provides
a critical history and episode guide for Blake's 7, including commentaries for
all 52 episodes. Also included are analytical essays on the show, dealing with
such topics as themes, imagery and story arc; a consideration of the series as a
futuristic Robin Hood myth; cinematography and visual effects; and an overview of
Blake's 7 in books, comics and videos. A detailed appendix lists the genre
conventions found in the series. The author also includes information about
Blake's 7 fan clubs and Internet sites.
About the Author
John Kenneth Muir has written several science fiction reference guides, including
Exploring "Space: 1999" (1997), and An Analytical Guide to Television's
"Battlestar Galactica" (1999). He is an avid collector of science fiction-related
toys and an amateur filmmaker. He lives in Charlotte, North Carolina.
I hope this is helpful. Cheers, Susie
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<html>
<i>I recently found this book on a B7 book list. I am not quite sure
whether it is published or not, but for me it looks as if it´s available.</i><i></i>
<p><i>History and Critical Analysis of" Blakes 7" , the 1978-81 British
Television Space Adventure</i><i></i>
<p><i>Has anybody ordered the book so far and is it worth the high price
they charge for it??</i>
<p>Hi Christina,
<p>I have the book pre-ordered through Amazon.com so I can let you know
once it arrives. Amazon gave a publishing date of November '99 so
it should arrive soon. Here is the info:
<p>A History and Critical Analysis of Blake's 7, the 1978-1981 British
Television Space Adventure
<br>by John Kenneth Muir Our Price: $38.50
<p>Book Description
<br>Blake's 7, Terry Nation's science-fiction tale of cosmic freedom fighters,
became a hit series in Great Britain when it premiered in 1978. Eight years
later, the show quickly became a cult program in America. A dramatization
of futuristic outlaw heroes who defend the innocent from both alien and
human conquering forces, the series might better be said to be equal parts
Robin Hood and The Magnificent Seven. The series defied traditional genre
elements of science-fiction television, and developed the concept of the
continual "story arc" years before such shows as Babylon 5 and Deep Space
Nine. This book provides a critical history and episode guide for Blake's
7, including commentaries for all 52 episodes. Also included are analytical
essays on the show, dealing with such topics as themes, imagery and story
arc; a consideration of the series as a futuristic Robin Hood myth; cinematography
and visual effects; and an overview of Blake's 7 in books, comics and videos.
A detailed appendix lists the genre conventions found in the series. The
author also includes information about Blake's 7 fan clubs and Internet
sites.
<p>About the Author
<br>John Kenneth Muir has written several science fiction reference guides,
including Exploring "Space: 1999" (1997), and An Analytical Guide to Television's
"Battlestar Galactica" (1999). He is an avid collector of science fiction-related
toys and an amateur filmmaker. He lives in Charlotte, North Carolina.
<br>
<p>I hope this is helpful. Cheers, Susie</html>
--------------DEF4D7E2572CF0629D3BDE0C--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 18:56:56 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Paul Darrow
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1124185656-ab5Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Wed 24 Nov, Judith Proctor wrote:
> The money is now all in for the TV movie and things are progressing slowly.
Sorry, that should read 'development money' - not quite the same thing.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:01:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Paul Darrow - update
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1124190143-354Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I've now got more data <Smile>
Judith
Sci-Fi Heaven Monday November 29 is a must for all SF fans when we chat LIVE to
some of the most popular stars from the world of Sci-Fi.
Discover the latest news about the new Red Dwarf and Blake's 7 movies with
Robert "Kyton" Llewellyn and Paul "Avon" Darrow, get the inside track from
Terry Pratchett about his latest novel and hear the real reason why TNT
cancelled "Crusade" from its star Carrie Dobro, plus much more besides at
http://www.chat.beeb.com/chat/comingup/
I hope you can encourage all you fans to join them on Monday starting at 12
noon, or start sending their questions now...
Sci Fi Day - Chat Times
12 noon - Rob Grant
Co-creator/writer/producer of Red Dwarf currently producing new Sky One
sci-fi comedy series The Strangerers to air early 2000.
1pm - Terry Pratchett
Promoting publication of his latest sci-fi novel The Fifth Elephant.
2pm - Robert Llewellyn
Red Dwarf star and bestselling author. Film rights for first novel The Man
on Platform 5 were purchased for a 7 figure sum. Latest novel Punchbag
recently went straight into the bestseller chart.
3pm Sci Fi Chat Room
Moderated by Duncan McAlpine, producer of Comicana show for Sci Fi Channel
and vintage US comic book expert (largest collection in Europe).
8pm Paul Darrow
Blake's 7 star and author of Blake's 7 novel about his character Avon, soon
to star in SKY One's The Strangerers.
9pm Carrie Dobro
Babylon 5 guest star currently starring as Thief Dureena Nafeel in B5
spinoff Crusade.
Kind Regards
Jane Metcalfe
Marketing Executive - beeb.com
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:01:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Heartbeat
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1124200141-256Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Gareth's next episode of Heartbeat is Sunday 28 November - 'Hollywood or Bust'.
I just found it in Radio Times.
Judith
PS. He looked amazingly disreputable last time!
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:11:02 -0000
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Punishment for Desertion
Message-ID: <008a01bf36d1$fabb31e0$65efabc3@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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Kathryn ....
>I don't follow this argument at all.
Ooh dear, all this is getting me down. I really must spend more time on each
post.
> I always assumed that the
>punishment of the family of a deserter was a form of *deterrent*
ALL punishment is a form of deterrent.
>
>Personally, I don't think that the fact that Marriot's *family* was
>punished that is the worst thing - it is that the Federation practices
>slavery at all.
>
At least we Kathryn and I agreed on what the two important points are,
although we prioritise them in a different order.
I was mussing on the extension of punishment to innocent family members,
part of my thought process on whether or not the Federation is fundamentally
a "bad place". Fine, hunt Marriott down and shoot him for desertion if you
like, but his wife may be a bit upset that he has walked out on her anyway.
Should she automatically be punished further ? And for the culprit, its a
great way to exert control over you partner, just threaten to desert to
Space City, and your partner is threatened with automatic "slavery".
Staying firmly in the B7 universe, and avoiding history like the plague, I
can well see how Blake and his co revolutionaries would point to this
practice of guilt by association as one of the things they wanted to change.
They may also view it as fundamental part of the Federation, rather than a
result of a minority of corrupt individuals trying to protect their power
(although Servalan falsely posting Marriott as a deserter was blatantly
doing exactly that). Hence there is no benefit to just killing Travis and
Servalan, its the whole system that needs to come down.
But as for "slavery", that is more open to interpretation. It was just an
expression from Travis that they would be made slaves. This may be literal,
or it may not. Simple loss of military privilege, and the loss of Marriott's
income ( and such losses may be inevitable if Marriott's family are not on
active service) may be enough for Travis to view their circumstances as
equivalent to slavery. So the question I tried to raise was,..... IF
"slavery" is as soft as just being expelled from the military into society
in general, and that that is a bad enough thing to explain Travis' reaction,
doesn't the poor prospects for people in society at large justify Blakes
rebellion. IF slavery is something more literal, either the financial
slavery you suggest, or a more tradition outright ownership of people type
of slavery, then I totally agree, one of the major crimes of the Federation
system is the widespread use of slavery. I could see Blake including this in
his manifesto as well.
Whichever way I look at it, that this one scene throws significant light on
the nature of the Federation, more so, in my mind, than the blatant killing
of people in the Way Back, or the illegal manoeuvres of individuals to
protect (or grow) their power.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:17:16 -0000
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Punishment for Desertion
Message-ID: <0e0a01bf36da$7006d690$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Andrew wrote:
> ALL punishment is a form of deterrent.
That's not what I was taught in GCSE Religious Studies. There was something
about retribution as well as deterrence. Or maybe that's just because it was
a Catholic school.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:51:33 -0000
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Story arcs
Message-ID: <002601bf3733$93f85b10$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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> History and Critical Analysis of" Blakes 7" , the 1978-81 British
Television
Space Adventure
I'm looking forward to this book, I think it has the potential to be very
interesting.
> The series defied traditional genre elements of science-fiction
television, and developed the concept of the continual "story arc" years
before such shows as Babylon 5 and Deep Space Nine.
Now that's an interesting one. I was writing up my Q study for a journal
last week, and I came to the account (4) which perceives a strong story arc
in B7, and made the point that this story arc wasn't written into B7 in
anything like the same degree as in B5 and DS9.
Anyway, didn't 'Dr Who' have one the previous year? Wasn't it the 'Key to
Time' season in 1978?
Una
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:21:28 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] the Federation
Message-ID: <000601bf3777$d02fe960$0719ac3e@default>
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Andrew wrote:
>Sorry Neil, in my previous post I am somewhat guilty of ....
>
>>Simply focussing on isolated aspects
>>of a regime loses sight of the whole picture.
>
>But I hope you will let me off.
All right. Just this once:)
Neil
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #328
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