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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 306
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
[B7L] squash ladder
[B7L] Strange disguises (Re: squash ladder)
Re: [B7L] BBC DVD's
Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Re: [B7L] Sales figures for the tapes
Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder
Re: [B7L] Strange disguises (Re: squash ladder)
Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder
Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Re: [B7L] squash ladder
RE: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:17:55 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Message-ID: <199910281318_MC2-8AD6-4510@compuserve.com>
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Judith wrote:
>No, the time-line doesn't match.
>
>Ensor developed tarial cells around 30 years ago.
>
>The System was able to take over other computers
>in the tri-system, which suggests that they had tarial
>cells then. That was before the slave's father was born.
It doesn't *prove* that they had tarial cells. The System may have had
some other technological wheeze for taking over computers. In fact, if it
had already been indicated that tarial cells were susceptible to takeover
by any passing box of perspex, they might have shifted to something more
secure. It would be a nice irony if they'd abandoned [whatever they were
using] because they stumbled across tarials and decided they were safer,
not knowing the patent-holder had just come up with the B7 equivalent of
One Ring To Rule Them All. I like the Borg assimilation theory.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:16:23 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1028071623-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Wed 27 Oct, Andrew Ellis wrote:
> Ellynne....
>
> >And the System spoke English--but _Zen_ didn't until he got it from
> >Jenna
>
> I thought the system spoke to the semi human leader types in some form of
> digital / machine code language. The correct verbal form could be easily
> obtained from Zen by the system. But we still have the fact that the slaves
> spoke English, who were not directly system controlled. Since this is not
> HHGTTG either there is ancient contact with Earth, or English is actually
> the natural culmination of language under any form of evolutionary pressure.
> So the Andomedeans should also speak English - ooh yes and they did.
But the Andromedans learnt english from the people they took over - they took
over lanuauage along with body shape and knowledge - they couldn't always fully
relate to the knowledge, but they had access toi t.
>
> I'm rambling now, but the slaves who build DSV2 speak English. They included
> a voice unit. They would set a default language. It was not English ????????
There's no evidence that Zen couldn't speak English before being contated by
Jenna - she may simply have activated him after he had been shut down by the
departing crew.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:23:30 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1028092330-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 28 Oct, Ellynne G. wrote:
>
> On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:00:22 +0100 (BST) Judith Proctor
> <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >Zen didn't speak until Jenna activated the interface - doesn't mean
> >that he
> >couldn't speak English. Nobody had tried to speak to him until then.
> >
>
> Well, he spoke something that _wasn't_ English. Bilingual, polylingual,
> or a real quick learner.
I don't recall him saying anything at all until then. Can you refresh my
memory? Unless you mean the 'machine language' in Redemption.
>
>
> >He's obviously used to humans - ZEN: Your species requires a visual
> >reference
> >point.
> >
>
> But not all humans speak English (although all/nearly all B7 ones do [or
> they speak the same language, we don't have to assume they speak 20th
> century English if we don't want to]). Last I heard, there were several
> thousand _living_ languages on Earth. It seems fair to assume a few lost
> colonies might have different, dominent languages.
I think relic languages are possible myself, but a characteristic of large
government/trading blocs is that they tend to lose languages. Look at the
present. Where people are bilingual, the most common second language is
English. Minority languages like Gaelic are dying. Ones like Cornish are
already dead (I don't count small bands of enthusisats who enjoy keeping a
language alive as a hobby.)
How many native American langauges are gone? I suspect we've lost an awful lot
of languages in the last couple of centuries. French is the main language in
some parts of Africa for example.
Languages like pidgin are successful partly becasue some parts of the world had
so many languages that people from neighbouring valleys could not understand one
another.
>
>
> >He also has no difficulty in accepting an instruction to go to Cygnus
> >Alpha,
> >which suggests familiarity with Earth naming conventions and maps.
> >Though it's
> >possible that he got the general location from Jenna, would she have
> >had the
> >co-ordinates memorised?
> >
>
> Well, she was a pilot. And the prison ship's destination has probably
> been something she constantly thought about for the past few months. Not
> likely, but not impossible.
Indeed, but finding Saurian Major was no problem either.
>
> As for the System (now I've had a chance to think about it), there was
> more than one planet involved. A different language may have been
> dominent on one or all of the others. Also, it's not unheard of for
> ruling classes to have a different language than the ruled, or for a
> language to be adopted for communication among people of different
> backgrounds even though it _isn't_ the mother tongue of any of them
> (Latin in the middle ages). Although the Altas used their computer code,
> they may have still used a particular common tongue or language used by
> the pre-Alta era educated class (why recreate programming when you can
> download the old stuff that still works [for all computer experts who can
> think of a thousand reasons, that was a rhetorical question assuming the
> old stuff _still works_ and that the Altas have zero creativity]?)
As I have the System as a lost colony, I think a common language for the three
planets is likely, though not a given.
Ruling classes usually have a different language when they have conquered the
native population - like the english aristocracy speaking French after the
Norman conquest (which is really an example of how languages become lost,
becasue the Normans were actually Norsemen who had settled in France).
A common tongue for communication is always possible (like Pidgin above).
English seems to come into that category a lot. The Dutch, German, Bulgarian,
Swedish, etc members of this list all post in English (often of a very high
standard) because it's a language we all have in common.
I just had a fun idea that explains why the auronar seem to speak English -
English is presently the language used for international air traffic control.
Pilots and air traffic controllers must be able to speak it. Guess who most of
the Aurons we met were apart from Cally. A pilot, control staff and Franton.
Franton is a scientist who might well want to read off-planet scientific
literature. The others now have a valid excuse for speaking English.
I see Auron has having a much older split from Earth than the tri-system, so
English would not be a default language in the same way. It always seemed to me
that cally spoke English as a learned language - just slightly different
phrasing, especially early on.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:05:41 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Message-ID: <000e01bf2176$48e22160$cf16ac3e@default>
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Judith wrote:
>However, I'm not so sure that Zen got his own name from her. (for one
thing,
>religion is banned on Earth so Jenna might not have known much in any
case.)
Nitpicker's corner, but nowhere in the series does it say that religion is
banned either on Earth or within the Federation generally. The Federation
destroyed all churches at the start of the New Calendar (Pressure Point),
but that doesn't indicate a blanket ban. They might have been singling out
Christianity.
I actually agree with Judith insofar as my personal subcanon goes - the
Federation is anti religion. But you've got to be careful, IMO, in
distinguishing between unambiguous canonical fact and personal inferences
drawn from such facts, even when those inferences are common fan lore
(perhaps even especially when they've entered fan lore).
>I think Zen was self-aware and thus had a sense of identity - the fact that
he
>had a limiter is pretty conclusive evidence that the System needed to
restrain
>his individuality. Thus, I think he had a name - possily one he had chosen
for
>himself.
Or IT had chosen for ITself:) Actually I like that possibility - Zen
choosing its own name. Hadn't occured to me before.
Re the origins of Zen and the Liberator, my own pet theory is that whilst
Liberator was built by the System, Zen wasn't. Somehow or other DSV-2 (an
asteroid mining ship, not a military vessel - I think Judith's got my
argument for this on her website) fell into other hands long before Blake
went aboard, and this unknown party gave the ship a hefty make-over in some
quarters, such as installing a new computer (Zen). They also tried to make
a killing in the interstellar mail order fashion business, hence the
plethora of costumes available to the crew.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:23:27 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Message-ID: <011501bf218a$d6d12f20$9d12063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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Harriet said...
>It doesn't *prove* that they had tarial cells. The System may have had
>some other technological wheeze for taking over computers. In fact, if it
>had already been indicated that tarial cells were susceptible to takeover
>by any passing box of perspex, they might have shifted to something more
>secure. It would be a nice irony if they'd abandoned [whatever they were
>using] because they stumbled across tarials and decided they were safer,
>not knowing the patent-holder had just come up with the B7 equivalent of
>One Ring To Rule Them All. I like the Borg assimilation theory.
I love the Lord of the Rings analogy. So Blakes 7 (Gandalf's 9 ?) is
basically .... what would have happened if they tried to use the ring
(Orac). Well it certainly appeared to have an effect on Avon (Aragorn ?), a
potential new dark lord ? At least the costumes were going in the right
direction !
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:48:57 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
Message-ID: <011301bf218a$d4b07200$9d12063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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Judith said...
>He also has no difficulty in accepting an instruction to go to Cygnus
Alpha,
>which suggests familiarity with Earth naming conventions and maps. Though
it's
>possible that he got the general location from Jenna, would she have had
the
>co-ordinates memorised?
I seem to remember that Zen appeared to have access to Federation data
bases. Answers like "Federation exploring party reported" and "according to
Federation report" are what I'm thinking of. So what does this mean ?
1) Earlier contact with Federation and Federation database downloaded at
that time. This explains the name Zen and the use of English, but it does
not really determine whether contact was just the Liberator, or the entire
civilisation, or if the founders of the civilisation took the data base with
them. In any case evidence for this should be that some of the information
is out of date wrt that obtained by Servalan or Travis.
or
2) Direct access to Federation data base, a little bit like Orac. ie Tariel
cells (or equivalent) on an ongoing basis. Ability to interrogate known
computers allows Liberator to learn about humans etc whilst drifting towards
Federation space after the battle in Space Fall. Perhaps in an attempt to
extract navigational information ? The difference between Zen and Orac is
that Orac would be able to bypass security codes by virtue of his
programming / exact Tariel cell implementation, whereas Zen could only
access publicly available records. Evidence for this would be up to date
Federation propaganda, with holes for military information. e.g. reports
from exploration ships available, but no reports from military
colonisation's.
any other possibilities ?
Andrew
p.s.
A side thought. If ALL Federation computers had Tariel cells, and Orac could
talk to them all, over any distance, why didn't Blake just ask Orac where
Star One was ? Any why didn't Orac report the existence of the minefield,
since each satellite would have a computer linked to the main Star One
system ?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:06:50 +0100
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] squash ladder
Message-ID: <3818D709.EB0CBC33@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
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This'll cause a row:
Project Avalon above Rumours of Death
Project is an episode that typifies B7. You have a real example of the
rebellion against the Federation. You see the Federation at its
mass-murdering worst. You have Servalan and Travis hatching a plot that
exposes more of the conflict between the two of them then anything else,
especially the stand off scene. Avalon is cute, and nearly naked. A
perfect episode.
Rumours on the other hand is Avon taking the rest of the crew on some
self endulgent revenge trip, which at the end of the day did little more
than form the basis for Darrow's crap novel. Apart from the "it's an old
wall" line, it would be down among the ranks of the awful (nowhere near
as bad as Sarcophagus or The Web admittedly, but in the bottom
division).
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson
Be inconsistent, but not all the time
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:42:18 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Strange disguises (Re: squash ladder)
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Julia wrote:
>Stuart has, after all, featured as a seven foot tall penis
>with a female voice, although only in that other show.
Wasn't the voice Grace Archer (the one who burned to death the night ITV
started because the BBC thought the actress was too bolshie)?
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:42:10 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] BBC DVD's
Message-ID: <199910282242_MC2-8AD7-E73E@compuserve.com>
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Andrew revealed:
>BBC Worldwide are currantly holding a competion
> along with DVDebate to see what the next releases
>will be on DVD format and one of the choices is Blakes 7.
Just when I was getting to the end of the video reissue... (Has Blake
appeared yet? I remember we didn't have a release date last time I heard
anything.)
Don't actually have anything to play DVDs on, but I suppose I would have to
start buying it in anticipation...
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:06:05 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tariel cells in the ystem...
Message-ID: <38191D2C.5E2060DA@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Judith Proctor wrote:
> Zen didn't speak until Jenna activated the interface - doesn't mean that he
> couldn't speak English. Nobody had tried to speak to him until then.
It doesn't mean that he could, either. I'd say a very strong case could
be made from Terminal that English was not Zen's primary language.
When the translator circuits broke down, he wasn't speaking English.
> He's obviously used to humans - ZEN: Your species requires a visual reference
> point.
Erm, no, that doesn't follow at all. The whole exchange is:
BLAKE: Where are you? Show yourself.
ZEN: Your species requires a visual reference point.
Zen simply drew a conclusion from Blake's request; no previous knowledge
of humans was necessary at all.
> He also has no difficulty in accepting an instruction to go to Cygnus Alpha,
> which suggests familiarity with Earth naming conventions and maps. Though it's
> possible that he got the general location from Jenna, would she have had the
> co-ordinates memorised?
If (as seems reasonable from the dialogue, etc.) Zen's communion
with Jenna included her subconscious, then he could conceivably
have access to any star chart she's ever studied. Even if that were
not the case, Zen must have extremely detailed star charts of his
own, and possibly a general location would be enough, if he
factored in the need for a planet with living conditions suitable for
a penal colony.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:18:47 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Message-ID: <38192026.FC2A0B3D@ptinet.net>
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Judith Proctor wrote:
> I think Zen was self-aware and thus had a sense of identity - the fact that he
> had a limiter is pretty conclusive evidence that the System needed to restrain
> his individuality.
I'm also of the opinion that Zen was self-aware; but you can't use the
limiter idea to support it. It would have to work the other way around--
Zen would only need a limiter if he were self-aware. Otherwise, what
you've really got is behaviour parameters programmed into a computer,
not a limiter. You have to prove self-awareness to call Zen's boundaries
a limiter.
I take it the limiter idea comes from Gan's statement in Time Squad that
sometimes Zen acts like he has a limiter; but that's simply an opinion of
Gan's, and probably heavily coloured by his frame of reference. It's not
a statement of fact. Apart from Gan's idea, there's really nothing in Zen's
behaviour that couldn't be explained by some fairly sophisticated programming.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:53:31 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Message-ID: <38191A3A.7A1DEDC@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Neil Faulkner wrote:
> Judith wrote:
> >However, I'm not so sure that Zen got his own name from her. (for one
> thing,
> >religion is banned on Earth so Jenna might not have known much in any
> case.)
>
> Nitpicker's corner, but nowhere in the series does it say that religion is
> banned either on Earth or within the Federation generally. The Federation
> destroyed all churches at the start of the New Calendar (Pressure Point),
> but that doesn't indicate a blanket ban. They might have been singling out
> Christianity.
Blake explains to Gan that a church is a place of religious assembly;
it could just be the *assembly* part that's banned, not religion generally
or one religion specifically. Public gatherings are often banned in a
repressive regime.
> I actually agree with Judith insofar as my personal subcanon goes - the
> Federation is anti religion. But you've got to be careful, IMO, in
> distinguishing between unambiguous canonical fact and personal inferences
> drawn from such facts, even when those inferences are common fan lore
> (perhaps even especially when they've entered fan lore).
Ditto. In my personal canon religious beliefs are viewed by the
Federation as superstition bordering on mental illness. But that's not
inherent in the aired series.
It very much surprised me when I started reading the lyst how many
things are simply accepted as being canon that are actually common
inferences. One of the ones I've seen the most often is that Gan's
woman was raped. That's never either stated or implied in the show,
only that she was killed.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:12:46 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sales figures for the tapes
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1028211246-b07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 28 Oct, Murray Smith wrote:
> Una,
>
> You quoted the sales figures:
>
> >The Sevenfold Crown: 12,000
> >The Syndeton Experiment: 3,500
>
> My suggestion for the difference is that the second play was _far_ worse
> than the first, hence the smaller number of people who bought it.
I disagree. I think fewer people heard it on the radio (it was less well
publicised) so if they saw it in a shop they would have to judge whether to
buy it by the first episdoe.
I think the 2nd radio play was poor, but much better than the first one.
JUDith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:11:15 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Message-ID: <052201bf21e5$30f08640$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Andrew Ellis wrote:
> Harriet said...
> >It doesn't *prove* that they had tarial cells. The System may have had
> >some other technological wheeze for taking over computers. In fact, if
it
> >had already been indicated that tarial cells were susceptible to takeover
> >by any passing box of perspex, they might have shifted to something more
> >secure. It would be a nice irony if they'd abandoned [whatever they were
> >using] because they stumbled across tarials and decided they were safer,
> >not knowing the patent-holder had just come up with the B7 equivalent of
> >One Ring To Rule Them All. I like the Borg assimilation theory.
>
>
> I love the Lord of the Rings analogy. So Blakes 7 (Gandalf's 9 ?) is
> basically .... what would have happened if they tried to use the ring
> (Orac). Well it certainly appeared to have an effect on Avon (Aragorn ?),
a
> potential new dark lord ? At least the costumes were going in the right
> direction !
Gandalf's 9! God help me. It's a great analogy. Presumably, then, if Blake
had destroyed Orac rather than using it (preferably taking it to Space
Command and smacking it with a hammer on Servalan's desk) then none of them
would have died in the final episode.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:05:51 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Message-ID: <051f01bf21e5$303acad0$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Steve wrote:
> This'll cause a row:
>
> Project Avalon above Rumours of Death
<Una climbs behind a brick wall to wait until this one has died out>
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:20:49 +0930
From: "Martin Dunn" <Martindunne@bigpond.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder
Message-Id: <11111991122454@domain3.bigpond.com>
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OK! Here I go-
Assassin is better than Blake....
Where do you take an argument like this? Another dimension!
Humour.
Assassin is funny, successfully funny.
The humour in other episodes is so heavy handed it outweighs the
surrounding scenes.
All the average "funny moment" in B7 needs is, say, an evil oil baron
dressed as a ghost being led away by the police, shouting "And I would have
made it too, if it wasn't for you rotten kids!", while the designated comic
relief (Vila with a goatee) quipping "Well, oil's well that ends well!".
But not Assassin. It is the most different show in the cannon, and unlike
others that are accused of being non-canonical it is perfectly at home. All
it needs to be fully appreciated is a funny bone.[1]
Assassin requires a totally different set of criteria to the average
episode. An example- cutting from scene to scene. The standard episode cuts
abruptly from scene to scene in a businesslike manner. Once an episode
there is a slow atmospheric fade. Blake itself is an example of this.
Assassin uses a series of contrived wipes, like the Star Wars films. This
should suggest immediately that something else is going on. [2]
So, Blake, no matter how good, has to be compared to fifty other episodes
to gauge how well it achieves its objectives. Assassin, on the other hand,
is top of a list of one. [3]
Moments of humour in Assassin
"Oh, Benos!" *ZAP*
Piri's capering into Tarrant's arms when introduced.
Piri's lishping speech when unveiled as Cancer.
Piri.
Servalan sipping radiator fluid at the slave auction.
Dayna having a hissy fit when missing Servalan.
Nebrox's first outfit.
Nebrox's second outfit.
Nebrox.
The crew chasing their own tails in the automated ship.
Soolin coming to her conclusion..._in the nick of time_!
Cancer-slave waiting in the dark by his dummy.
Cancer-slave's demeanour.
Cancer-slave, the opera star.
Avon asking the slavers for help. Paul Darrow's most un-Avon turn in the
whole show.
Moments of humour in Blake
Scorpio being taken out by a couple of friction driven tops.
Scorpio bucking its crew- "left...right...upside-down!"
Scorpio crashing into the playmobile forest.
Tarrant riding the big slide into the playmobile forest.
Vila running after Soolin and Dayna.
Vila arriving in a ditch way ahead of Soolin and Dayna
Blake and Tarrant trying to out-curly each other.
Blake shooting the gun runners ship, and its illumination turning blood
coloured (why?).
This ship crashing in full light sometime the following day, perhaps.
As you can see, the only funny stuff in Blake is unintentional, with the
possible exception of Vila's previously unshown running skills.
Serious issues in Assassin-
Slavery. Cancer-slave was in a family of slaves before being broken up by
Servalan and Cancer.
A family of slaves. Inherited slavehood. A popular form of economic
management in the past, we may yet see its revival if economic rationalism
triumphs.
After playing his part, he is not returned to his family, he is disposed of
as you would any piece of property.
Serious issues in Blake-
Outlaws die. Get over it.
So, be true to yourself. [4] Be true to the list. Just be true. [5]
Assassin
Blake
[1] Note to the unwary- this is a common tactic in politics. Within the
explicit argument is an implication that any dissenters must be deficient
in some manner. Lets call it the Invisible Brain Cell.
[2] Here it is again! This time its wrapped around a favourite ruse of
sneaky little post-modern film critic so-and-so's- a claim that there is a
reality within mundane reality that only the special will see. It is
undefined. I call it the Emperor's New Clothes.
[3] It is also bottom of a list of one, middle of a list of one, and
sideways to the appendix of a list of one.
[4] Invisible Brain Cell.
[5] I would call this the Emperor's New Clothes, but I can't. I don't
understand this at all.
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:07:48 +0930
From: "Martin Dunn" <Martindunne@bigpond.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Strange disguises (Re: squash ladder)
Message-Id: <11111408322443@domain3.bigpond.com>
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> Julia wrote:
> >Stuart has, after all, featured as a seven foot tall penis
> >with a female voice, although only in that other show.
Harriet replied:
>
> Wasn't the voice Grace Archer (the one who burned to death the night ITV
> started because the BBC thought the actress was too bolshie)?
>
Ysanne Churchman, who also played "Spider #1" in Planet of the Spiders.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:24:04 +0200
From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
To: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Message-Id: <199910291224.NAA10640@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
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> Presumably, then, if Blake
> had destroyed Orac rather than using it (preferably taking it to Space
> Command and smacking it with a hammer on Servalan's desk) then none of them
> would have died in the final episode.
'Course not. They'd have been lucky to make it through Remdemption...
steve
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:49:01 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder
Message-ID: <05fc01bf220b$fbb12b20$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Martin Dunn wrote:
> OK! Here I go-
>
> Assassin is better than Blake....
>
> Where do you take an argument like this? Another dimension!
I'm convinced. Just don't try and put it above 'Animals', or I'll deck you.
Una
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:44:29 PDT
From: "Hellen Paskaleva" <hellen_pas@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Message-ID: <19991029134429.61529.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
>Project Avalon above Rumours of Death
Agree. I've, actually, never considered "Rumours of Death" as a masterpiece,
instead of "Project Avalon", which is amongst my favorite episodes.
<Project is an episode that typifies B7. You have a real example of the
rebellion against the Federation. You see the Federation at its
mass-murdering worst.>
Exactly. You see what is this all *about*. You can see, that they are not
wandering through the Galaxy just because the Liberator’s flexible
artificial gravitation is preferable for certain types of sexual amusement
(sorry, just read a zine-story), but they have a *real* job to do.
Avalon is obviously another rebel leader, which reveals the fact, that it
exists, apparently, a wide-spread opposition movement within the
Federation's borders. This episode is to show us one significant piece of
the global picture of resistance activity. I also consider as crucial for
understanding the importance of Blake’s mission the following dialogue:
SERVALAN: Nothing is safe any more. You've heard, of course, that there
have been two attempts on my life.
TRAVIS: I have. I was very concerned.
SERVALAN: I consider Blake to be responsible. Oh, not personally, of
course; but stories of his exploits are still circulating. They excite
people. The fact that he is still free gives them hope. And that is
dangerous, Travis. Hope is very dangerous.
If there are *other* people, also wrestling against Federation, that’ll give
to Blake’s mission some kind of *legitimacy* before those, who could
interpret it as an terrorism. And the *hope*... He gives them a *hope*. What
could be more important!
* * *
"Rumours of Death", on the other hand, had only one significant achievement,
on my point of view – Servalan in chains. But this is theme for the other
list... ;-) ;-) And the night bird singing - first time we've watched the
episode with my sister, we switched on and off the recorder several times to
realise whether the sound comes from the screen or from outside...
Shortly - Avalon above Rumours.
Hellen
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:52:29 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder
Message-ID: <002c01bf221d$3e93e8e0$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Steve and Hellen wrote:
<Project is an episode that typifies B7. You have a real example of the
rebellion against the Federation. You see the Federation at its
mass-murdering worst.>
>Exactly. You see what is this all *about*. >
What I take from 'Rumours' isn't the suffering Avon stuff so much anymore
(honest!). 'Rumours' seems to be about the personal price that people have
to pay for living within the Federation. It takes the story of a love
affair, and shows how it was twisted by the society in which it took place.
I do think that 'Rumours' gets most of its strengths from fan rewriting and
reinterpretation. But that all adds to it in my mind. Anna Grant is one of
the most interesting characters in the entire show - but the actress is
pretty lousy, if the truth be told ;)
I agree that 'Project Avalon' has some powerful bits in it. And Servie is
just *marvellous*, darlings, throughout. But I would be sorry to see
'Rumours' head downwards.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:19:31 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F848707@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
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Mistral wrote:
> Apart from Gan's idea, there's really nothing in Zen's
> behaviour that couldn't be explained by some fairly
> sophisticated programming.
According to behaviourists, the same thing can be said about humans.
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:21:02 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin?
Message-ID: <3819D77E.E0E42A1F@ptinet.net>
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Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
> Mistral wrote:
>
> > Apart from Gan's idea, there's really nothing in Zen's
> > behaviour that couldn't be explained by some fairly
> > sophisticated programming.
>
> According to behaviourists, the same thing can be said about humans.
<g> True. Which is why the issue is self-awareness, not just behaviour.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:57:12 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Tarial cells in the System...
Message-ID: <011e01bf224a$6b2563c0$96618cd4@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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>> Harriet said...
>>> the patent-holder had just come up with the B7 equivalent of
>> >One Ring To Rule Them All. I like the Borg assimilation theory.
To which Andrew replied
>> I love the Lord of the Rings analogy. So Blakes 7 (Gandalf's 9 ?) is
>> basically .... what would have happened if they tried to use the ring
>> (Orac).
Then Una said..
>Gandalf's 9! God help me. It's a great analogy. Presumably, then, if Blake
>had destroyed Orac rather than using it (preferably taking it to Space
>Command and smacking it with a hammer on Servalan's desk) then none of them
>would have died in the final episode.
>
I agree totally with Servalans desk, but the full analogy is to send Vila
and series 4 Dayna to space command alone, whilst the others fight a battle
with the Andromadan invasion fleet on the other side of the galaxy and dash
in at the last minute to teleport them away from Travis after they have done
the deed.
Andrew
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End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #306
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