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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 285
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Manchester
[B7L] Re: B7 video-tapes in UK
[B7L] Test
RE: [B7L] Test
RE: [B7L] Test
[B7L] Spatials, speed and relativity
Re: [B7L] HORIZON NEWS
[B7L] memories
[B7L] Stephen Greif Question
[B7L] Rereading flat robin
[B7L] ["Danni Lighter" <danlite@hotmail.com>] New Horizon Policy
Re: [B7L] ["Danni Lighter" <danlite@hotmail.com>] New Horizon Policy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:17:46 +0100
From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Manchester
Message-ID: <37FC815A.8F5EF6C9@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
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Andrew Ellis wrote:
> To start things off.... I'm in Suffolk, UK.
Whereabouts, Andrew? There are quite a few of us over in the big city
(i.e. Cambridge) ;)
Una
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:51:45 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Re: B7 video-tapes in UK
Message-ID: <199910071251_MC2-8811-8076@compuserve.com>
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Re the discussion of cheap secondhand tapes, a friend of mine who's
desperate for shelfspace is willing to sell his complete set of the
original BBC release. I understand from Horizon that the going rate for
that is about a hundred pounds, but he might be willing to negotiate if
anyone's interested...
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:24:53 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Test
Message-ID: <001701bf1102$0559a0f0$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Testing, testing...
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:02:52 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Test
Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F7956EA@NL-ARN-MAIL01>
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Una wrote:
>
> Testing, testing...
>
And of course I just could't resist it:
One, two, three....
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 14:05:19 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Test
Message-ID: <19991007210519.84874.qmail@hotmail.com>
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Una wrote:
<Testing, testing...>
and Jacqueline added:
<One, two, three....>
Yes, both lists seem to have a case of virtual laryngitis at the moment.
I am now firmly squashing the mental image I immediately get of
*real* laryngitis aboard the Liberator. Avon would suffer most
(and be by far the most obnoxious patient. Poor Cally.) but oh,
the pain not being able to talk would cause Vila, Blake, Tarrant...
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:00:20 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Spatials, speed and relativity
Message-ID: <018801bf1108$ba14d040$a516063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
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This is going back to when I joined the list a few weeks back. People were
just finishing talking about spatials, and I started on about things being
logarithmic. It all seemed to die when somebody started on the old "is it a
Newtonian or Relativistic world ?" debate that Sci-Fi always gets.
I've been thinking about this one. Newtonian mechanics is just a
simplification of Special Relativity, which is just a simplification of
General Relativity, (especially if we use Einstein's notation for special
relativity and derive all of the features in about three lines of math). The
point is that there is no debate, they are all the same thing. Keplers Laws
still exist, even though we now believe in General Relativity. In one way
the curvature of space time is just a way of describing what causes the
force of gravity.
The big debate is this. Newtonian Mechanics and General Relativity are both
basically "classical" theories, which gives rise to a fully deterministic
universe (If you know EVERYTHING about now, you can predict the future
exactly). The thing that is really interesting is Quantum Mechanics, which
opens up a whole host of possibilities. In a very highly publicised recent
experiment, the quantum state of one photon was ** "teleported" ** to
another, the information being exchanged between the photons at speeds **
faster than the speed of light **. Perhaps next time we debate the science
behind Blakes 7 we should bear in mind Quantum mechanics, and the scientific
joining of Quantum mechanics and Relativity in a Quantum theory of Gravity.
Of course, Quantum Mechanics allows strictly secure key distribution using a
technique called Quantum Cryptography, so all that messing about getting
Cally captured, in order to obtain the Federation cyper machine suggests
that Blakes 7 isn't a quantum world either.
I hope this rather techy post hasn't bored anybody to much.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:09:26 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] HORIZON NEWS
Message-ID: <00ec01bf1129$cb9c1b40$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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>Michael Keating is currently appearing in the popular farce 'Charley's
Aunt'
>playing Stephen Spettigue at the Swan Theatre, Worcester, until Sat 16th
>October. Box Office 01905 27322.
Hey! MK in a theatre not too far away from me.
But - does anyone know Charlie's aunt?' - what kind of a role is this
Stephen fellow - will he be on for just a couple of minutes, or does he get
a good go?
rubbing hands together with glee
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:21:47 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] memories
Message-ID: <013701bf112b$a1021f40$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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I've been thinking about the episodes that made the biggest impact on me
when B7 was first shown in the 70s-80s. I was a teenager when the series
began, and it was one of the shows you used to discuss with your friends at
school the next day, then the same at University as the series progressed.
The first episode I can remember that I really got a terrific kick out of
was Project Avalon. It's a measure of how it had established itself as a
'bleak' show, that I was surprised and thrilled that they actually got the
better of the baddies, for once. By this stage watching every week had
become a compulsion.
Other shows that had a big impact were Star One, Terminal, and funnily
enough 'City on the edge', though I wasn't much of a Vila fan at the time.
I can remember feeling baffled and cheated by 'Power' but luckily that was
not a true indicator of the rest of series 4. The sequence running up to
the end of S4 was extremely memorable. Gold, Sand, Orbit, Warlord and
of course Blake seemed to be so innovative, sharp and memorable in
comparison to anything else on TV.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:13:21 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Carol & Gordon Burgess <storm@catchnet.com.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Stephen Greif Question
Message-ID: <37FA980900000DBA@base.catchnet.com.au> (added by base.catchnet.com.au)
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Hi All,
I just had Pay TV hooked up here in my corner of Australia, and I was
flicking through the channels when I came across UKTV and thought WOW
I'll get all the shows from home that I used to love along with see
some more of my fav. actors.. Well there was this show on, at that
particular time, called "Citizen Smith" and stright away the 'Villians'
voice caught my attention, then he turned around and Yes it was, my
suspicions were correct it was Travis minus the eye patch..
( and at this point I must say he looks rather dashing without that
eye patch :-) ) So, could someone in the know please inform
me if this was a regular spot Mr Greif had in this show or was it
only a one off? Ta Very Much..
TTFN
Carol 'Hondo'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:39:05 EST
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Rereading flat robin
Message-ID: <19991008043906.27995.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Goddess of Spiderwebs, fair enough. Crop rotation?
Regards
Joanne
PS the "Avon loves me, this I know, for my telly tells me so" bit makes up
for me recognising the use of The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Ouch!
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: 08 Oct 1999 12:54:28 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] ["Danni Lighter" <danlite@hotmail.com>] New Horizon Policy
Message-ID: <us3dvm5di3.fsf@sture.lysator.liu.se>
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This got stuck in the spamtrap, forwarded since it's B7-related.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"...a festering realization that all you do is no more than the futile
slapping of paint onto the rotting, decayed infrastructure of the
Information Superhighway." -- Jinx_tigr
--Multipart_Fri_Oct__8_12:54:28_1999-1
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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:42:47 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-ID: <19991008104154.38324.qmail@hotmail.com>
From: "Danni Lighter" <danlite@hotmail.com>
To: andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk, peter@horizon.org.uk, judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: New Horizon Policy
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Thought you should all see this.
-----Original Message-----
From: Diane Gies (Horizon)
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 3:58 PM
To: kathy@songbird.nascr.net
Cc: tuckers@easynet.co.uk; gillian@mpuddle.freeserve.co.uk;
jager@clara.net; paula.robinson@rcn.org.uk; rae@clara.net;
sue.cowley@bbc.co.uk; JudithSmith@csl-deloitte.co.uk
Subject: Horizon policy decision
Dear All,
At various times I think I've spoken to you all about my feelings on Fan
Porn, particularly relating to 'adult pictures' and accessability to the
uninitiated and recently I've been more and more unhappy about how easy it
is to find fan-porn on the internet, & how easy it is to stumble over adult
zines at guest-conventions.
B7 was always a PG show and whilst I've no objection to fans wanting to
write adult stuff and sell it to other consenting adults in private, I don't
think the vast industry in fan-porn is healthy. It is promoted as a
mainstream interest and as something new fans should be told about as soon
as they are told about 'regular' stuff, which I don't agree with. The idea
of our own Ultra 1 was to have adult stories, with non-PG rated sex scenes
as part of a proper dramatic story (plus humorous little romps) but some of
what's out there is so far removed from anything resembling B7 as we know it
that I don't believe it should be so easily accessible.
I can't do anything about what other people sell, and I wouldn't want to
try, but I don't see why Horizon should help them. Therefore, I would like
to implement a new advertising policy which would broadly encompass the
following points:
Advertising of fanzine Dealers in Orac's Oddments. Up till now we've been
advertising, for free, stuff sold by any club member, whilst asking them to
reciprocally advertise us. We have no way of knowing whether these people
DO advertise us and I've discovered for sure that Judith Proctor certainly
doesn't in any of her printed literature though she does on her website.
The new policy would be that free for sale ads would only cover 'one off'
sales (selling off a collection, or one item) rather than for people who
trade as fan or pro dealers. We could then have an advertising fee for any
dealers still wanting to advertise up to a maximum of xxxx words (yet to be
decided, but enough to give their name, address and extremely brief
description of what they sell - eg. B7/ST/DW fanzines or X Files & other
Trading Cards, or B7 audio tapes, etc.) We could waive the fee at our
discretion if the items were all being sold for charity (requiring proof) or
they guaranteed in writing that they were reciprocally advertising us.
Further, they would be required to sign something to confirm that they did
not produce, or agent for others, any B7 fan fiction containing 'adult'
artwork. If they want to sell adult fiction, that's up to them, but the
majority of the cast hate the idea of explicit artwork and so do I, as you
all know. We would obviously have to advise them what we considered
'explicit', eg. no nudity, and no portraits that would look out of place in
a PG rated zine and cause anyone to think "ey-up... bet they're going to be
having a **** any minute now".
Conventions - I don't believe that guests and adult artwork mix. I don't
want Horizon to advertise any convention that has a B7 guest unless they
confirm in writing that there will be a ban on dealers selling adult B7
fiction with explicit art content and, further, that any adult fiction
without such pictures will not be openly displayed on the sales table but
will be hidden away behind and anyone wanting to view it will have to ask
for it, rather than having it in a box on the table marked 'adult' - thus
creating a knowledge that such things exist in the person passing by.
What happens with other fandoms I can't be bothered to worry about, but
since the B7 people are our Honorary Members, I want to at least do
something in our own 'universe'. If they don't have a B7 guest, fine, let
them do what they like. Those of you who were with me at Cult TV 2 weeks
ago will know how upset I was to find that Judith Proctor was blatantly
selling such stuff, including a quite disgusting zine with graphic sexual
artwork, from her table top, whilst sitting selling photos & together again
tapes next to Paul at his autograph session (courtesy of Sheelagh Wells
arranging this). She was overheard the next day by someone - who doesn't
wish her name mentioned - having a conversation that clearly indicated that
she was well aware how he would feel if he knew what she was selling (along
the lines of "gosh you were so lucky sitting with him all that time..."
"yes, lucky he didn't know what I was selling..." ) That wasn't the exact
conversation, but that's what was basically happening. I can't stop her
selling this stuff, and to all intents and purposes laughing in his face
about it, but I don't see why I should make it easy for her. She was also
making the point while she was selling the tapes that "Oh, you can't get
these from Horizon any more..." which didn't help to endear her to me, but
that's another story.
Apart from dealers conditions at a con with a B7 guest, there'd also need to
be a condition about the art/model displays at the convention (ie.
prohibiting any 'adult' art being displayed, even if it was 'hidden').
Websites - from Horizon's links section, you only effectively need to do 3
quick 'clicks' through Proctor's site to get into reading X-rated excerpts
from zines on her own site. In several cases there isn't even any warning
and depending on which bits of her site you start off reading, you don't
necessarily get an explanation of what slash fiction, for example, means so
the non-fan who has done a search for Blake's 7 can come into the Official
Fan Club Site (us!), go through to Proctor's site and immediately be told
that there's loads of fiction featuring explicit sex scenes between main
characters. It's one thing for people to go and buy these zines, where they
have to make some effort and conscious decision to buy, but if it's just
sitting there on the internet, I think this is awful and there seems to be
so much of it.
Proctor's site links to several others which have the most unbelievably
disgusting porn stories, without even any warnings in some cases (though
others say "Hey, if you're not over 18, go away now" which is really going
to deter the average 13/14 year old playing with dad's computer, isn't it?)
Again, I can't stop them doing this, but I can refuse to link Horizon's site
to any site that has X-rated material anywhere on it, or that links to a
site that does. So I'd be wanting to email all the sites we currently link
with issuing them with an agreement to sign or we can just remove them and
refuse to mention they exist in any shape or form.
Some of you may agree with me 101% (I know some of you do) but others of you
may not agree at all, or think I'm taking this 'crusade' too far. I want to
know what ALL of you think, please, as soon as possible because I think this
is very important, and I don't want to leave things as they are for much
longer. Do you think the conditions I wish to implement are reasonable? If
not, what - if anything - do you suggest.
I'm sending a non-email copy of this to Margaret, Valerie Guy and to Claire
Saunders who I've just co-opted onto the committee to do 'Finding Publicity
Photos' . I'll leave Edna out of it as she doesn't have any idea this even
exists and at 70+ years I don't think she needs to. Obviously Andy and Alan
won't be asked!! I'd appreciate you not discussing this with anyone
outside the committee until the issue has been resolved.
Have a nice day!!
xx Diane
______________________________________________________
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--Multipart_Fri_Oct__8_12:54:28_1999-1--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:04:53 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] ["Danni Lighter" <danlite@hotmail.com>] New Horizon Policy
Message-ID: <0.f5636aca.252f37e5@aol.com>
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Calle wrote:
> This got stuck in the spamtrap, forwarded since it's B7-related.
Is this what I think it is? Is "Danni Lighter" forwarding someone else's
*private* e-mail to the list?
Carol Mc
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End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #285
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