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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 145
Today's Topics:
[B7L] AVAILABILITY FOR AUSTRALIANS OF SHEELAGH WELLS' INTERVIEW TAPES
Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers)
Re [B7L] Who killed Anna Grant?
Fwd: [B7L] Re: Food aboard the Liberatot (Was Avon & the housework)
Re: Re [B7L] Who killed Anna Grant?
Re: Fwd: [B7L] Re: Food aboard the Liberatot (Was Avon & the housework)
Re: [B7L] Servalan not killing Avon
Re: Re [B7L] Who killed Anna Grant?
Re: [B7L]Orac
[B7L] Re: Food aboard the Liberatot (Was Avon & the housework)
Re: [B7L] Re: Food aboard the Liberatot (Was Avon & the housework)
[B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers)
Re: [B7L] Servalan not killing Avon
[B7L] Paul's photo (was tapes)
Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers)
[B7L] Re:Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers)
Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 10:43:04 +1000
From: "Afenech" <Fenech@onaustralia.com.au>
To: "spacecity" <space-city@world.std.com>
Cc: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] AVAILABILITY FOR AUSTRALIANS OF SHEELAGH WELLS' INTERVIEW TAPES
Message-Id: <00514406220384@domain2.bigpond.com>
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Hello everyone -smile-
Have meant to do this for some weeks - but as ever am terribly
behind with everything - just to remind all Australian list
members & anyone they think might be interested you can now
buy Sheelagh Wells' *excellent* interview tapes through me - that
is with Australian dollars - as they are now available directly from
Judith Proctor.
Details of prices and so on can be found on Judith's web page.
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Pat F
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:10:42 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers)
Message-ID: <002301be8ebc$09a42220$fe468cd4@default>
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In the recent debate on Avon's line 'I want to be free of HIM', I think that
perhaps a bit too much attention has been focussed on that line alone and
less on the wider context leading up to it. The preceding dialogue is, as I
recall, something like -
AVON - Just so long as there is an end to it, just so long as it is
finished. And I want it finished. I want it over and done with. I want to
be free.
CALLY - But you are free now, Avon.
It's Cally who puts him on the spot. I think his 'I want it over and done
with. I want to be free' was meant to be his final word on the matter, then
Cally goes and dumps him in it. He can't say 'I want to be free of IT'
because that would then force him to define an 'it' which is too large and
complex to be easily defined. So he picks on Blake as an alternative. Not
because Blake is 'it', but because Blake is the epicentre around which 'it'
revolves. So I don't think we can deduce from this dialogue that Avon does
hate Blake (which as someone pointed out was Blake's suggestion anyway, and
one that Avon pointedly refused to be drawn on).
As to what 'it' might be... I don't think it's Blake's rebel activities per
se, since Avon has previously taken part in them, however critical he might
have been of their purpose or worth. I think it's more likely his
realisation that things are finally drawing to their big conclusion and that
he - an innately conservative man - is going to have some responsibility for
the consequences, whatever they are. Like Blake, he is prepared to shoulder
that moral responsibility, but unlike Blake he doesn't welcome the
opportunity.
'I want to be free of him' is far quicker and easier to say than 'I want to
be free of any ongoing involvement with the reconstruction of the galactic
socio-economic infrastructure precipitated by the destruction of Star One,
particularly since my name would inevitably be associated with yours, which
I don't really want because we hardly see eye to eye on a lot of things, so
can't we just get the whole messy business over with and then start from
scratch and...'. See what I mean?
The way I see it, Avon has not fully defined to himself exactly what it is
that he wants to be free of, but he sure knows he wants to be free of it.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:26:50 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re [B7L] Who killed Anna Grant?
Message-ID: <002401be8ebc$0a85f6a0$fe468cd4@default>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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All this talk on Servalan and Avon at the end of Rumours has reminded me of
something I once thought of after watching that episode. As I recall, Avon
is not looking at directly at Anna when she tries to account for her
continued survival, and it is Cally's warning shout that prompts him to spin
round and shoot her. I don't think we can see too clearly what Anna is
doing immediately prior to that moment - is she deliberately going for her
gun, or is she unconsciously reaching towards it?
What prompted Cally to give that warning shout? Could she see that Anna was
definitely planning to draw on Avon? Or did she just think that Anna was
planning to do that? (It was pretty dark in that cellar, after all)
And what was Cally's motivation? Protecting Avon? Or seizing an
opportunity to dispose of an unwelcome blast from the past that could come
between him and her?
Finally, would Avon realise that Cally might share some of the
responsibility for Anna's death? And if he did, how would that affect his
dealings with Cally?
Jus' wonderin'
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:12:15 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Fwd: [B7L] Re: Food aboard the Liberatot (Was Avon & the housework)
Message-ID: <19990425021220.29937.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
>From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
>To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
>Subject: [B7L] Re: Avon & the housework
After I wrote:
<And he did his share of the boring stuff around the Liberator. I
think he'd have a good claim for nearly as much teleport duty as
the women (of course, most of his was earlier in the piece.)>
Ellynne queried:
<But is that fastidiousness? As he once said, "I'm not expendable,
I'm not stupid, and I'm not going."
Perhaps, given the tendency of some people to get their bracelets
stolen or otherwise endanger the lives of all those aboard the
Liberator, he began to rethink whether that was the best way to
protect his life expectency.>
Yes...but then he started going down to the planets and doing
teleport duty *less* as time went on (possibly because of increasing
and unacknowledged worry about Fearless Leader's life expectancy for
the same reasons <g>).
What I was thinking about was more that Avon (from the admittedly
scanty evidence) didn't shirk his share of the boring drudge work
around the ship. We don't *see* a lot of drudgery, of course, maybe
the Liberator does all the housework itself (which would have made
the first months on Xenon interesting if they'd all forgotten that
cooking and cleaning was needed - maybe Soolin could re-teach them -
at gunpoint, with Vila. And all that leather and studs would have
needed careful treatment...).
Those first few weeks on the Liberator must have been fun, trying to
work out which were the switches for soap, toothbrushes, food etc.
And how to get the meals you wanted - now what the *hell* is the
sequence for chocolate fudge icecream? and why when Blake asks for
fake steak sandwiches does he always get fake frogs legs and
polysterene sandwiches?? and does Jenna want to *know* what the
wriggling purple things were in her imitation seafood salad?? and
why, why, why, no matter what buttons we push, do all the drinks
taste like alcoholic swamp-water?)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:23:08 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Re [B7L] Who killed Anna Grant?
Message-ID: <3722A6BB.5BCEDCF4@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Neil Faulkner wrote:
> All this talk on Servalan and Avon at the end of Rumours has reminded me of
> something I once thought of after watching that episode. As I recall, Avon
> is not looking at directly at Anna when she tries to account for her
> continued survival, and it is Cally's warning shout that prompts him to spin
> round and shoot her. I don't think we can see too clearly what Anna is
> doing immediately prior to that moment - is she deliberately going for her
> gun, or is she unconsciously reaching towards it?
Have just gone back and run this in slow-motion to be sure;
when Cally gives her warning, we are looking at Avon's
face; but when the shot cuts out to Avon and Anna, Anna
is definitely going for her gun, bringing it out and up to firing
position. She definitely goes for her gun *before* Avon reaches
for his. Avon's just faster, is all. And neither seems to be in
doubt that the other would have fired:
Anna: I always knew when you found out, you'd kill me.
Avon: Unless you killed me first.
> What prompted Cally to give that warning shout? Could she see that Anna was
> definitely planning to draw on Avon? Or did she just think that Anna was
> planning to do that? (It was pretty dark in that cellar, after all)
>
> And what was Cally's motivation? Protecting Avon? Or seizing an
> opportunity to dispose of an unwelcome blast from the past that could come
> between him and her?
My take on this has always been that Anna was really
going for her gun, and that however you choose to interpret
Cally's feelings for Avon, she showed remarkable restraint
by just giving a warning instead of shooting Anna herself.
> Finally, would Avon realise that Cally might share some of the
> responsibility for Anna's death? And if he did, how would that affect his
> dealings with Cally?
If Cally had shot Anna, Avon might never have forgiven her;
but Avon's not one to make excuses for himself; he always
seems to believe one is responsible for one's own life and
actions. If he'd had longer to think, he might have let Anna
kill him instead; but he's the one who's lived the life that made
his instinct to pull the trigger, rather than duck, or stand there
and be shot. He might wish Cally had done something else;
but he wouldn't blame her for wanting to give him a chance
to protect himself. And the only people he'd ever blame for
Anna's death are himself and Anna.
From my own personal canon, of course. YMMV.
(OTOH, if you are assuming A/C, he's not above lashing
out at Cally, out of his own pain, and *accusing* her of
having an ulterior motive; but when he confronts his own
feelings, he'd never *actually* blame anybody but himself.
Avon is IMHO the kind of person who, the closer you are
to him, the nastier he can be; I know lots of people like
this; polite to strangers, condescendingly so to people they
dislike, or feel sorry for, and reveal their anger, hurt,
cynicism primarily with those they love and trust.)
Just IMHO,
Mistral
--
"Life is cruel, isn't it? Spare me the rationalizations."--Avon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:29:07 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [B7L] Re: Food aboard the Liberatot (Was Avon & the housework)
Message-ID: <3722A823.B3D94AB3@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Sally Manton wrote:
> Those first few weeks on the Liberator must have been fun, trying to
> work out which were the switches for soap, toothbrushes, food etc.
> And how to get the meals you wanted - now what the *hell* is the
> sequence for chocolate fudge icecream? and why when Blake asks for
> fake steak sandwiches does he always get fake frogs legs and
> polysterene sandwiches?? and does Jenna want to *know* what the
> wriggling purple things were in her imitation seafood salad?? and
> why, why, why, no matter what buttons we push, do all the drinks
> taste like alcoholic swamp-water?)
Yes, I always wish they'd shown us a bit more of this kind of thing,
getting the hang of surviving on this alien craft. Personally, however,
one would hope that in all those centuries mankind could come up
with a better approach to dental hygiene than the inconvenience
and and messiness of brushing one's teeth.
Grins (duly brushed),
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:11:12 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan not killing Avon
Message-ID: <19980313.181113.9894.3.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 04:58:26 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
>Stephen Date wrote:
>
>This is very well said. I don't think we're too far from agreement
>here. But she's just enjoying hurting him *so* very much in Rumors;
>a lot of Rumors didn't make sense to me until I realized that. I feel
>as if that has to be a factor. Perhaps she was weighing the
>opportunity of Terminal against the danger of leaving him alive
>and the joy of torturing him tipped the scales, is all. This gives
>me much to think about, much fun :)
When Avon first showed up in the basement, I think Servalan thought he
was behind her overthrow (if she knew Anna's background, she'd have no
trouble assuming Anna had been in contact with him) and didn't realize he
had just walked into this mess till she finds out he's looking for Anna's
killer. That's part of where her wall comment is coming from. She
thinks Avon is seizing power and about to become president the same way
she did and wishes him the same ending she's facing. Then she finds out
he and Anna aren't working together and, in fact, can easily be turned on
each other. No wonder she smiles.
Ellynne
>> Personally, I am quite able to accept the idea that Avon was
>> fortunate enough to be saved by Hob's intervention. Chance is part
>of
>> the fortunes of war.
>
>(Apparent) coincidence is a large part of life -- but it's
>generally considered bad fiction ;-)
>
>Grins,
>Mistral
>--
> "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:04:51 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Re [B7L] Who killed Anna Grant?
Message-ID: <19980313.181113.9894.2.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:26:50 +0100 "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
writes:
>What prompted Cally to give that warning shout? Could she see that
>Anna was
>definitely planning to draw on Avon? Or did she just think that Anna
>was
>planning to do that? (It was pretty dark in that cellar, after all)
>
>And what was Cally's motivation? Protecting Avon? Or seizing an
>opportunity to dispose of an unwelcome blast from the past that could
>come
>between him and her?
I don't see Cally bumping off rivals, especially after her earlier anger
at the crew's mistreatment of Shrinker. Besides, she's quite capable of
bumping off people on her own. But that begs the question why _Cally_
didn't try to shoot Anna when she saw her reaching for her gun. If she
wasn't setting up Avon to kill Anna (which I don't think was her style)
then what _was_ she doing?
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:03:32 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]Orac
Message-ID: <19980313.181113.9894.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:37:34 +0100 (BST) Judith Proctor
. I'm not sure it was every said that orac was
>instantaneous,
>merely faster than everything else.
>I remember noticing one interesting oddity. The only times Orac is
>every seen
>to control another computer is when there's no relative movement
>between them.
>This may be just a coincidence, but Orac's ability to control other
>computers
>must have been limited or else they'd have tried it on pursuit ships
>coming
>after them.
Actually, there seemed to be a lot of times they didn't use Orac as
effectively as they might have. However, I think you're right about the
limited movement and that it probably wasn't instantaneous. That would
explain why Orac used nearbye computers to run subroutines even when it
risked tipping of the Federation that they were in the area, something
I'd wondered about.
>> As to why no one had a major, ethical objection when they went after
>> Central Control on Earth, it may be the Federation hadn't advertised
>> exactly how dependent it was on its system. It may have been
>generally
>> believed it gave them _control_ over systems existing on other
>worlds and not
>> that it was, in fact, the only system. This could have been a
>deliberate ploy
>> to 1) draw out rebel groups by giving them a target (which it did),
>2) and
>> keep them from realizing they could skip over this step by simply
>building
>> their own systems (only good on a planetary level and not for galaxy
>wide
>> rebellions like Blake's. Also only good for replacing things like
>traffic
>> control, where they only needed to get pilots to switch to another
>frequency
>> or pay attention to their scanners, and not so good for weather
>control).
>
>But Blake and Orac had been studying it for a long time.
>
> BLAKE: Two hundred years ago, when the Federation began expansion
>and
>conquest, the Administration established a computer complex to monitor
>information: political,civil, military -- everything. That computer
>is the
>nerve center of ALL Federation activity. Smashing that would be the
>biggest
>single step toward the destruction of their power. I don't think they
>would ever
>recover from it.
>
I'm just trying to come up with an explanation for the change in
attitude. I think it still holds. Blake says it _monitors_ information
at this point. He also calls it the nerve center, but this doesn't mean
he believes the nerve endings aren't capable of autonomous action if that
control is removed. He says it would destroy the Federation's power in a
such a way that it might never recover, but that doesn't mean he realizes
what kind of destruction it would cause. He and Orac had been studying
it, but Blake may have been focusing on the wrong questions (like how to
plan his attack rather than how to deal with the chaotic aftermath).
After all, Orac never found out they were planning an attack on an false
target.
I'm suggesting the Federation emphasized the _power_ Star One gave them
while trying to downplay their _dependence_ on it. That is, they wanted
to advertise the power they had over their subordinates and the
destruction they could cause through their computer control without
advertising the fact that there were no back up systems and that the
Federation would be powerless to stop the inevitable deaths of millions
(no matter how loyal they were) if Star One were destroyed, damaged, or
taken over by shape-shifting aliens. They also may have wanted to keep
certain details quiet so no one would have the information how to
circumvent the power Star One gave them.
It may be a stretch, but it's the only reason I've been able to come up
with for the change in attitude. I'm open to suggestions on this one.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:03:53 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Food aboard the Liberatot (Was Avon & the housework)
Message-ID: <19980313.181113.9894.1.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:12:15 PDT "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
writes:
>
>>From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
>After I wrote:
>
><And he did his share of the boring stuff around the Liberator. I
>think he'd have a good claim for nearly as much teleport duty as
>the women (of course, most of his was earlier in the piece.)>
>
>Ellynne queried:
>
><But is that fastidiousness? As he once said, "I'm not expendable,
>I'm not stupid, and I'm not going."
>Perhaps, given the tendency of some people to get their bracelets
>stolen or otherwise endanger the lives of all those aboard the
>Liberator, he began to rethink whether that was the best way to
>protect his life expectency.>
>
>Yes...but then he started going down to the planets and doing
>teleport duty *less* as time went on (possibly because of increasing
>and unacknowledged worry about Fearless Leader's life expectancy for
>the same reasons <g>).
Sorry, I wasn't being clear. What I meant was he probably originally
picked teleporter duty to stay out of the line of fire. Then, as time
went on, he began to notice all these life threatening situations
developing which may not have happened if an intelligent person had been
on site. In the interest of his own life expectency, he began to go down
more often.
>Those first few weeks on the Liberator must have been fun, trying to
>work out which were the switches for soap, toothbrushes, food etc.
>And how to get the meals you wanted - now what the *hell* is the
>sequence for chocolate fudge icecream? and why when Blake asks for
>fake steak sandwiches does he always get fake frogs legs and
>polysterene sandwiches?? and does Jenna want to *know* what the
>wriggling purple things were in her imitation seafood salad??
Rule #1 when visiting faraway lands with very different menus: If you
like it, don't ask what it is.
Rule #2: If you don't like it but have to eat it any way, _don't_ ask.
and
>why, why, why, no matter what buttons we push, do all the drinks
>taste like alcoholic swamp-water?)
>
Hmm, did they let Vila try to program the food machines? So long as it
was alcoholic, he probably wouldn't care if he couldn't get the rest of
it right.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:50:31 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Food aboard the Liberatot (Was Avon & the housework)
Message-ID: <3722BB36.D483537B@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Ellynne wrote (Re Avon and teleport duty):
> In the interest of his own life expectency, he began to go down
> more often.
Yes. And, too, he probably began to realize that the others
weren't going to run away and leave him at the first hint of
danger, so he was a little less worried about being away
from the ship.
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:32:00 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers)
Message-ID: <19990425073202.16585.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Neil wrote:
<He can't say 'I want to be free of IT' because that would then force him to define an 'it' which is too large and complex to be easily defined. So he picks on Blake as an alternative. Not because Blake is 'it', but because Blake is the epicentre around which 'it' revolves.>
Thank you, Neil - I was putting together a reply to this thread which said basically this in a lot more words. I'd also add that I think Avon's still simmering from their clash in The Keeper (the last time he got *really* mad at Blake, he lashed out in a similarly icy but personal way - beginning of Trial).
<So I don't think we can deduce from this dialogue that Avon does hate Blake (which as someone pointed out was Blake's suggestion anyway, and one that Avon pointedly refused to be drawn on).>
Because he doesn't. He never hated Blake. He dislikes the fact that he is letting Blake run his life, a fact that grates against his independence and his survival instincts (watching Blake's back is *not* the galaxy's safest place to be), and he loathes the Cause (by this stage with a vengeance). If he had hated Blake, he would have said so clearly and loudly (and long before this point <g>).
I don't think Blake believes it either - or not for more than twenty minutes. He gets hurt, but by the time of the 'mine field' bit, they're back to normal - for *them* this bit is remarkably relaxed and friendly. (Sally's Rule One of Blake's 7 - Blake and Avon Actually Like Each Other. Just Don't Ask Either of Them Why.)
<As to what 'it' might be... I don't think it's Blake's rebel activities per se, since Avon has previously taken part in them, however critical he might have been of their purpose or worth.>
IMO, he's done it due to a mixture of (a) determination not to leave the Liberator, and (b) personal loyalty towards Blake. And (being the sentimental softy that I am <g>) I think the latter was the stronger motivation. But I do think he's reached a point where he's sick to death of the Cause. Got there somewhere between Coundown and Star One.
<I think it's more likely his realisation that things are finally drawing to their big conclusion and that he - an innately conservative man - is going to have some responsibility for the consequences, whatever they are. Like Blake, he is prepared to shoulder that moral responsibility, but unlike Blake he doesn't welcome the
opportunity.
'I want to be free of him' is far quicker and easier to say than 'I want to be free of any ongoing involvement with the reconstruction of the galactic socio-economic infrastructure precipitated by the destruction of Star One, particularly since my name would inevitably be associated with yours, which I don't really want because we hardly see eye to eye on a lot of things, so can't we just get the whole messy business over with and then start from scratch and...'. See what I mean?>
Ahh. Not quite. I agree that Avon sees the consequences, but literally does not care. At all. When he says “you can wade in blood up to your armpits...” etc, I think he's dead serious. He wants out. Of everything. (Well, he *thinks* he wants out. Then he can't find Blake afterwards and can't keep his side of the bargain. And the Federation (Servalan) won't let him out anyway. And he doesn't like it one bit. Helllloooooo, Terminal.)
Avon has also learned over the last two years that, whether he likes it or not (and he doesn't) Blake is able to make him do what he often doesn't want to do. Being free of IT isn't going to work *unless* he's free of Blake.
It would have been interesting to watch the pair of them if Avon *had* been able to take Blake back to Earth, with all the danger involved (presumably Jenna and maybe Cally would have gone with Blake). Would he then had blithely shot through, or done a Horizon-like dither to try and find an excuse to stick around and keep an eye on them? (My money's on the latter).
<The way I see it, Avon has not fully defined to himself exactly what it is that he wants to be free of, but he sure knows he wants to be free of it.>
Absolutely. His speech may seem razor-sharp (and is meant to wound) but the thoughts behind it are rather muddled.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:53:38 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan not killing Avon
Message-ID: <3722E621.FE22E7D1@ptinet.net>
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Ellynne wrote:
> When Avon first showed up in the basement, I think Servalan thought he
> was behind her overthrow (if she knew Anna's background, she'd have no
> trouble assuming Anna had been in contact with him) and didn't realize he
> had just walked into this mess till she finds out he's looking for Anna's
> killer. That's part of where her wall comment is coming from. She
> thinks Avon is seizing power and about to become president the same way
> she did and wishes him the same ending she's facing. Then she finds out
> he and Anna aren't working together and, in fact, can easily be turned on
> each other. No wonder she smiles.
Er... yes and no. <smile> At first she thinks Avon's behind the plot,
and says so. He denies it. Then Tarrant and Avon have a rather
extended conversation about the effect the plot has had on her
self-image and sense of security. She's surely realized by this
point that Avon's *not* behind the coup. He's the one who starts
in about the wall: "Is that it? Have you murdered your way to an
underground wall?"; so she's just responding to him about the wall.
(My original confusion was because it's IMHO an awkward exchange.)
The rest I'll gladly agree with; and I appreciate your insight about
her being able to use Anna and Avon against each other. It hadn't
occured to me that Servalan could equally use him against Anna.
In fact, that may have been her first thought; in looking at it again,
I notice the cruel joy doesn't enter her expression until after Anna
is dead. That would make sense; until the immediate threat of the
coup is dealt with, Avon and the Liberator, etc., are irrelevant.
Regards,
Mistral
--
"When you know an enemy's strengths, and can use them
against them, they become weaknesses."--Servalan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:49:58 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Paul's photo (was tapes)
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0425104958-fc4Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Sun 25 Apr, Afenech wrote:
> Hello everyone -smile-
>
> Have meant to do this for some weeks - but as ever am terribly
> behind with everything - just to remind all Australian list
> members & anyone they think might be interested you can now
> buy Sheelagh Wells' *excellent* interview tapes through me - that
> is with Australian dollars - as they are now available directly from
> Judith Proctor.
And if anyone wants to know what Paul looks like now, I should add that he looks
really gorgeous on the sleeve photo.
He's standing with Pennant Roberts, Mary Ridge and Gareth Thomas in a winter
woodland. He's dressed completely in black and the light is giving his hair
silver highlights. As I'm a total sucker for silver highlights, this is one of
my favourite photos of him. He's come out looking better than Gareth on this
particular one (I preferred Gareth's photo for 'Elements').
> Details of prices and so on can be found on Judith's web page.
> http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
There's also a few recent photos taken after Guards Guards! (not by me - they're
far too good) on the gallery section of the web site.
Incidentally, I suspect my criticism of Paul's writing and my disagreement
with the way he sometimes views Avon may lead people to the erroneous conclusion
that I don't like him. Quite the contrary (if I disliked everyone I disagreed
with, I'd lose half my friends overnight). My experience of Paul as an
individual has always been favourable. The night I saw him in Guards Guards! he
gave a fantastic performance. (Much better than when I saw him in Macbeth
several years previously) I've always admired his courtesy as much as his
ability to hold a convention audience and he's a great entertainer at
conventions.
I'm just about to send in my registration for Cult TV. Who else is coming?
It's Paul's first convention in about two years.
Their web page is http://www.cult-tv.freeserve.co.uk
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 05:42:46 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers)
Message-ID: <37230DC5.DF886EA9@ptinet.net>
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Here's Avon's actual 'Star One' speech, from the archive:
AVON: I never doubted that. I never doubted your fanaticism.
As far as I am concerned you can destroy whatever you
like. You can stir up a thousand revolutions, you can
wade in blood up to your armpits. Oh, and you can lead
the rabble to victory, whatever that might mean. Just
so long as there is an end to it. When Star One is
gone it is finished, Blake. And I want it finished. I
want it over and done with. I want to be free.
CALLY: But you are free now, Avon.
AVON: I want to be free of him.
Neil Faulkner wrote (lots of interesting things including):
> As to what 'it' might be... I don't think it's Blake's rebel activities per
> se, since Avon has previously taken part in them, however critical he might
> have been of their purpose or worth. I think it's more likely his
> realisation that things are finally drawing to their big conclusion and that
> he - an innately conservative man - is going to have some responsibility for
> the consequences, whatever they are. Like Blake, he is prepared to shoulder
> that moral responsibility, but unlike Blake he doesn't welcome the
> opportunity.
>
> 'I want to be free of him' is far quicker and easier to say than
<snip>
To which Sally Manton replied (lots of equally interesting things including):
> Ahh. Not quite. I agree that Avon sees the consequences,
>
> but literally does not care. At all. When he says “you can
>
> wade in blood up to your armpits...” etc, I think he's dead
>
> serious. He wants out. Of everything. (Well, he *thinks*
>
> he wants out.
>
This is fascinating, and I think you're both mostly right. My
personal take is similar to and yet different from both.
FWIW, I am quite sure that Avon sees the consequences,
but he questions whether or not *Blake* sees them. Avon is
surely aware of the cyclic nature of history, that governments
rise and fall, and either collapse under their own weight or are
overthrown by angry citizens. In either case, they are replaced
by some other government, which, while possibly different in
structure, eventually deteriorates and repeats the same pattern.
Blake is about to get thousands (or possibly millions) of people
killed, simply so that some other people can have slightly more
freedom of choice for a few generations, before it starts all
over again. Blake may not have even considered what the
Federation ought to be replaced with; and even if he has, it's
not a sure thing that most people would agree with him; and
even if they did, that would result in oppression of a minority
viewpoint -- again. We don't even have any evidence that
the majority of people would support this kind of violent
revolution; the majority of people might truly consider Blake
a terrorist if they realized what he was about to unleash. It's
also entirely conceivable that the new government might
so much resemble the old Federation that they would be
difficult to tell one from the other.
Avon would therefore consider Blake's rebellion both
pointless and stupid; but being the ultimate individualist that
he is, also would consider that Blake had a right to lead
anybody who wanted to follow him, and they had a right to
follow, no matter how idiotic Avon personally thinks that might
be. Avon simply doesn't want to be caught in the crossfire.
He's quite serious in the speech above, about Blake's
fanaticism, about wading "in blood up to your armpits"; he
echoes this speech in 'Blake': "and he will fight to the last
drop of *their* blood". Avon realizes that no matter what
he does, he can't avert this bloodbath that Blake is bent on
precipitating; and he's sick to death of 'the cause'; now all
he wants is to be sure the blood Blake spills isn't his.
Perhaps what we might all agree on, for the sake of the
original question, 'does Avon hate Blake?', is that the answer
is 1) no, Avon decidedly does not hate Blake, but 2) Blake
and his cause have clearly become inextricable from each
other, and so 3) when Avon says "I want to be free of him",
he is really saying that he wants to be free of Blake's cause
(and therefore has to be free of Blake as well).
Is that last paragraph neutral enough to be relatively
satisfactory at covering the bases?
Having too much fun,
Mistral
--
"There's always an argument."--Avon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:01:22 +1000
From: Sarah Berry <berrys@connexus.apana.org.au>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re:Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers)
Message-ID: <37239EC2.CA7B9F91@connexus.apana.org.au>
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Stephen Date:
>If they [technicians] were programmed to want to
>protect Star One at all costs they could have been
>just as easily programmed to want to stay there. Let's
>face it, they weren't induced by the pay and prospects...
But it was a big place, there was probably a whole Star One we don't know, a
zero-G gym, pool, holosuites, an entire deck of restaurants, not to mention the
museums and art galleries - Blake probably destroyed the cultural centre of the
galaxy.
Sarah Berry.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:39:45 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Curious things in Star One (potential spoilers)
Message-ID: <000201be8f84$fdad4a40$cd4a8cd4@default>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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I wrote:
<So I don't think we can deduce from this dialogue that Avon does hate Blake
(which as someone pointed out was Blake's suggestion anyway, and one that
Avon pointedly refused to be drawn on).>
Then Sally wrote:
<Because he doesn't. He never hated Blake.>
Precisely the point I intended to make, though it's not so clear the way I
made it.
<I don't think Blake believes it either - or not for more than twenty
minutes. He gets hurt, but by the time of the 'mine field' bit, they're back
to normal - for *them* this bit is remarkably relaxed and friendly.>
Actually I'd say this was their normal level of interaction, with all the
hissy tiffs being the exception rather than the rule. A drama series like
B7 necessarily focusses on the dramatic moments, which tended to bring the
Blake-Avon antagonism to the foreground. Presumably there were uneventful
weeks if not months of voyaging between episodes, and I refuse to believe
they were constantly badgering at each other in all that time.
< (Sally's Rule One of Blake's 7 - Blake and Avon Actually Like Each Other.
Just Don't Ask Either of Them Why.)>
I've never seriously doubted that they did like each other, and it's easy to
see why. They're both intelligent, educated men with a shared social and
professional background. Neither have particularly obnoxious personalities.
Maybe they don't see eye to eye on everything, but that in itself is hardly
grounds for deep-rooted antipathy.
<<As to what 'it' might be... I don't think it's Blake's rebel activities
per se, since Avon has previously taken part in them, however critical he
might have been of their purpose or worth.>>
<IMO, he's done it due to a mixture of (a) determination not to leave the
Liberator, and (b) personal loyalty towards Blake. And (being the
sentimental softy that I am <g>) I think the latter was the stronger
motivation. But I do think he's reached a point where he's sick to death of
the Cause. Got there somewhere between Coundown and Star One.>
Not being a sentimental softy I would reckon (a) the more important of the
two:)
<<'I want to be free of him' is far quicker and easier to say than 'I want
to be free of any ongoing involvement with the reconstruction of the
galactic socio-economic infrastructure precipitated by the destruction of
Star One, particularly since my name would inevitably be associated with
yours, which I don't really want because we hardly see eye to eye on a lot
of things, so can't we just get the whole messy business over with and then
start from scratch and...'. See what I mean?>>
<Ahh. Not quite. I agree that Avon sees the consequences, but literally does
not care. At all. When he says “you can wade in blood up to your armpits...”
etc, I think he's dead serious. He wants out. Of everything.>
I wasn't trying to suggest that he cares about the consequences, more that
he doesn't want to be the one to be held accountable for them. He'll play
his part in the destruction of Star One because Blake is going to press
ahead regardless, and while Avon isn't a team player, he's not going to
score any deliberate own goals either. Besides, the galaxy is a long way
behind them by the time he makes his little speech - in fact, that may be
what prompted it, as he realises there is no longer any opportunity to opt
out. Until now, he could have opted out at any time, but didn't (perhaps
because that very option was there). Now it's gone, and he's trapped. So
he wants to be free.
< (Well, he *thinks* he wants out. Then he can't find Blake afterwards and
can't keep his side of the bargain. And the Federation (Servalan) won't let
him out anyway. And he doesn't like it one bit. Helllloooooo, Terminal.) >
What bargain? To take Blake back to Earth to lead the rabble to victory?
Surely rendered void in the aftermath of the Andromedan invasion.
<Avon has also learned over the last two years that, whether he likes it or
not (and he doesn't) Blake is able to make him do what he often doesn't want
to do. Being free of IT isn't going to work *unless* he's free of Blake. >
Yes, but not because IT is Blake.
Neil
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End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #145
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