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blakes7-d Digest				Volume 99 : Issue 134

Today's Topics:
	 Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
	 [B7L] Dorset meet
	 Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
	 [B7L] Deliverance pix
	 Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
	 [B7L] telefilm / worst openings
	 Re: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat
	 Re: [B7L] Telemovie
	 Fw: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat
	 Re: [B7L] Re: Blood feuds
	 Re: [B7L] Re:B7 telemovie
	 Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
	 Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
	 Re: [B7L] Telemovie
	 Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings
	 [B7L] latest news from Avon club
	 Re: [B7L] Telemovie
	 Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings
	 [B7L] B7 telemovie
	 Re: [B7L] Telemovie
	 Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
	 Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings
	 Re: [B7L] Telemovie
	 Re: Fw: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat
	 Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings
	 Re: Fw: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat
	 [B7L] Website Re-Org
	 Re: [B7L] Telemovie
	 Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:21:03 +0100
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Julie Horner" <julie.horner@lincolnsoftware.com>,
        <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
Message-Id: <199904160941.KAA25834@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >Just don't let Barry ****ing Letts write it...
> >
> 
> 
> I don't think he said who was writing it. He said it was based on
> an idea Terry Nation had before he died.

Oh.

Not good...

-- 
"When two hunters go after the same prey they usually end up shooting each
other in the back - and we don't want to shoot each other in the back, do
we?"

http://members.aol.com/vulcancafe
-------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:20:16 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Space City <Space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Dorset meet
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0416102016-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

If any one wants to drop round to our local group meeting this Saturday and
discuss the latest radio play and the proposed movie, then you'll be more than
welcome.

2am, Saturday  28 Diprose rd, Corfe Mullen, Wimborne, Dorset.

nearest station is Poole and there's a bus to Corfe Mullen.  ring 01020 693039
if directions are needed.

Judith
-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:01:05 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0416090105-313Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Thu 15 Apr, mistral@ptinet.net wrote:

> I've just gone and read the Beeb backchat from yesterday (for some reason I
> couldn't get logged into the chatroom at the time) and I have to say that I am
> more or less sickened by what I read. It looks very much as if it will be a
> PGP that adheres to Paul Darrow's view of Avon as a murderous bastard --
> hardly surprising with him producing and starring. I must say that I'm
> surprised though, that the fans haven't been able to sort him out in twenty
> years -- must be where Avon gets his stubbornness -- or is he just having us
> all on? I think I'm going to be ill. (And if that sounds like a slam at Paul
> Darrow it's not meant as one.)

<sigh>  I know what you mean.  Avon is a murderous bastard, but with a deeply
buried streak of humanity and loyalty under it.  It's that streak that makes all
he difference.

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:30:58 +0100
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, Space City <space-city@world.std.com>,
        Paula Robinson <Paula.Robinson@RCN.ORG.UK>
Subject: [B7L] Deliverance pix
Message-ID: <37171161.EFC44A05@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've updated my web page with pictures from Deliverance, and they are
mostly of people on these lists.
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson

"What is it with you and holes?"
Xena to Gabrielle, Paradise Found

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 05:45:22 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
Message-ID: <371730E1.C726A876@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Judith Proctor wrote:

> <sigh>  I know what you mean.  Avon is a murderous bastard, but with a deeply
> buried streak of humanity and loyalty under it.  It's that streak that makes all
> he difference.

Ah. Well. To me there's a difference between a cold-blooded killer
and a murderer. He's certainly capable of killing in cold blood. But
I don't see him as a murderer, and by all accounts that I can draw
conclusions from, PD does. And Lighthill says he agrees with that.
That's what worries me, after the things you and others have said
are in the radio plays. I'm just afraid that seeing this on the screen
is going to make it difficult not to view it as canon.

Well, maybe Blake will turn up alive and kill Avon for a change.
Better still, they can kill each other and Vila can wrest control of
the galaxy from Servalan by drinking her under the table. <g>

>thud< Help, Tramila, it broke!

Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:14:31 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings
Message-ID: <19980313.021434.8582.0.Rilliara@juno.com>

The following is awful, but I was asked to do it.  This is a worst
opening and a worst case scenario for what a really bad telefilm could
be.

One moment, Avon had been standing over Blake's dead body, Federation
guards surrounding him.  The next, he was standing on a green hill next
to a short, plump man in a very dated suit, possibly one thousand years
out of style.

"What happened?" Avon demanded.

"We've decided to bring back your series." the man said, "But with a few
minor changes.  Overall, it's a brighter, sunnier story, but we decided
to leave you as a cold blooded killer."

"Cold blooded with an underlying streak of morality." Avon automatically
corrected.

"If you think the average viewer is interested in depth and character
development, you're very much mistaken." the man said, "Trust me, we make
millions each year by assuming nobody cares about that.  Just listen to
the orientation.  You're the villain--do you like the costume?" Avon
looked down and saw he was wearing some kind of black, monk's robe.  He
was about to say he would have preferred something more in a Jesuit
style, if he had to be disguised as clergy, but had no chance as the man
went on, "Instead of space, we decided it would be cheaper to put you in
an enchanted forest--"

"A _what_?"

"--and we made some other changes, combining characters or splitting them
up.  Tarrant's now divided between a knight errant and his sidekick.  The
knight got all the personality and the sidekick got the hair.  Servalan
and Soolin have been crammed into one person.  She has blue skin but her
hair is still long and blond."

"You can't expect anyone to take a meglomaniac with blue skin seriously."

"Of course we can't.  That's why she isn't a meglomaniac anymore.  We
only kept her attachment to pretty, white dresses and wandering all sorts
of terrain in heals.  Blake had to much going on to simplify, so we split
him up.  He's also short and blue, all of him.  In fact, we have a few
hundred components to his personality.  There's Muscle Blake, Jokey
Blake, Brainy Blake--nobody likes him--Obsessive Blake, and so on."

This was getting worse and worse.  Avon already realized his only chance
was to somehow get all the Blake's working together to fight this madman,
whoever he was, and break out of this place (it had to be some kind of
virtual reality), and get back to the real world.

"As I was saying, you're the villain.  All the Blake's hate you on sight
because you want to kill them."

"That was a misunderstanding."

"I told you already, we don't care about character depth.  You just want
to kill them.  Don't worry about motivation."

Avon rethought his strategy.  If this was a virtual reality, killing
characters should free them from the game.  He gave the man a wintry
smile.  "Fine."

"Oh, one other thing." the man said, "You'd probably succeed pretty
quickly on your own, so we're combining your character with Vila."

Before Avon could do anything, the man was gone.  He needed to get out of
this nightmare but, first, he had to have a drink.

In the background, he heard high pitched voices, singing, "La, la,
la-la-la-la, la, la-la-la . . . ."

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:32:09 +0100
From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat
Message-ID: <003401be881e$4bb06380$144d95c1@orac>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----Original Message-----
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>


>Having been informed about the online chat with Brian Lighthill, I
>dutifully turned up yesterday.  I have to say that I found the >experience
quite bewildering.

I know just what you mean - all the different threads running concurrently
made it difficult to match up answers with questions,
not to mention the irrelevant noise about Richard and Judy. It took me
several minutes to make sense of what was going on.

> I tried to make some points about the radio play, mention >desirability of
involving Chris Boucher, Gareth Thomas etc. (Think I >managed two CBs, three
GTs.)  This was where I really missed not >being able to post directly
>to the few list members I spotted as present, something on the lines >of
"help, kick me if I'm making a complete mess of this."  I felt I was >coming
over as unpleasantly aggressive and critical >

No you didn't. You presented the case very well and it was good to see
someone trying to maintain a sensible and informed discussion.
I seem to remember there being as much chat about the radio plays as the
telemovie.

>I don't think I'll attend a chat again, though - I found it too chaotic a
>forum to hold any meaningful conversation.


Actually once I got used to it I quite enjoyed it and I think I would try
and participate in one again if it was on a subject of interest. Unlike the
online chat with Brian and PD before TSFC, all comments appeared
immediately, rather than just a chosen few selected by moderators. Of course
that does mean you get quite a bit of nonsense but on the other hand you
feel more like you are actually taking part.

Julie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:46:26 +0100
From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie
Message-ID: <004b01be8820$4a357160$144d95c1@orac>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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-----Original Message-----
From: mistral@ptinet.net <mistral@ptinet.net>

>Julie Horner wrote:
>
>> Well I think I would like to stay positive about it all until proven
>> wrong.
>
>"Ever the optimist."-- Avon
>
>Well, of course, Julie, you're right. I'm just scared.

My philosophy is that if you expect things to turn out alright then they
usually do. If it is any comfort this has worked for me for more than three
dozen years now so yes, I am an optimist!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:44:02 +0100
From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Fw: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat
Message-ID: <004601be881f$f43c2a60$144d95c1@orac>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----Original Message-----
From: mistral@ptinet.net <mistral@ptinet.net>
>>
>>Having read both Harriet's post and the Beeb backchat -- it
>>looks like they've cut out quite a bit of what was said.
>
I have read the transcript and I think they have only cut the froth, i.e.
daft remarks and people entering and leaving. Most of the serious lines of
question and answers that I remember all seem to be there.

>
>>Yes, I'd
>>say this was pretty much an attempt to push the telemovie. I can
>>understand if the Beeb and Lighthill don't understand or care what
>>the fans think, but Darrow?
>

I find that quite a mystifying comment. I mean, Paul Darrow probably *does*
think that is what the fans want. Maybe his interpretation of the characters
is different to many fans but I am prepared to believe that he genuinely
thinks that this project is most people will welcome.

I am one of them.
>
>>
>>Serve them all right if we tune out en masse -- but of course we
>>won't; we'll protest loud and long,
>

What, even if it turns out actually to be good?

Julie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:35:32 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blood feuds
Message-ID: <QrWDiGA0otF3EwcQ@jajones.demon.co.uk>

In message <19990415120402.44100.qmail@hotmail.com>, Stephen Date
<stephendate@hotmail.com> writes
>However, the enterprising writer of fan-fic need not despair. After 
>all Teal and Vandor now have no need or desire to protect Servalan. 
>Wouldn't it be amusing if she was called into her superior's office 
>one morning.

Is that one up for grabs, Stephen? I can think of several writers who
might like to play with that idea:-)
-- 
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
        The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:44:55 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:B7 telemovie
Message-ID: <LbiFuPAnxtF3Ew9r@jajones.demon.co.uk>

In message <37166B20.473BDDF0@connexus.apana.org.au>, Sarah Berry
<berrys@connexus.apana.org.au> writes
>Julia Jones wrote:
>> Just come from the Chat room where Brian Lighthill announced
>> he is working on a Blakes 7 telemovie with Paul Darrow.

I did?

> Interesting,  maybe we should lobby Brian that Barry Letts should write it
>rather than Paul Dorrow? ;-)

Yes, when I stopped swearing, my reaction was "Is this to punish us for
complaining about Letts?".
-- 
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
        The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:43:19 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
Message-ID: <LbqFuJAHwtF3EwdT@jajones.demon.co.uk>

In message <19990415224930.48806.qmail@hotmail.com>, Joanne MacQueen
<j_macqueen@hotmail.com> writes
>Having read what others have had to say now, it does sound, well, "unfortunate" 
>may the kindest way of putting it. <sympathetic grimace> Julia, it might be time 
>to beat your head against the keyboard again, as you did when the present radio 
>programme was announced last year.

Let me put it this way - my reaction a couple of days ago when I read
the post with the news of a telemovie with Paul Darrow involved in some
sort of production capacity was expressed in language better used on The
Other List.

I liked Mr Darrow very much on the few occasions I've met him (and no,
not just because I think he's walking sex appeal), and I think he's a
good actor. But I also think his view of Avon is so divergent from what
we saw on screen that allowing him to have any input into the script is
asking for trouble. This is only made worse by having a director who
only knows about the fourth season, and a writer who needs to watch
anohter 50 episodes, including all of the first three seasons. Much of
the appeal of B7 is the plotline and character development over the
course of four seasons, and the fourth season is not the one I'd pick as
most likely to stand on its own merits independently of the other three.
-- 
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
        The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:24:39 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0416172439-b07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Fri 16 Apr, mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
> 
> 
> Judith Proctor wrote:
> 
> > <sigh>  I know what you mean.  Avon is a murderous bastard, but with a deeply
> > buried streak of humanity and loyalty under it.  It's that streak that makes all
> > he difference.
> 
> Ah. Well. To me there's a difference between a cold-blooded killer
> and a murderer. He's certainly capable of killing in cold blood. But
> I don't see him as a murderer, and by all accounts that I can draw
> conclusions from, PD does. And Lighthill says he agrees with that.
> That's what worries me, after the things you and others have said
> are in the radio plays. I'm just afraid that seeing this on the screen
> is going to make it difficult not to view it as canon.

I suppose it depends on how you define murderer really.  I was using it more as
an adjective to go with bastard and didn't really mean that I expected him to
carry our murderws per se.  (Which was bad use of language on my part as PD/BL
would use the term in a different sense)

When he started out, he even found it difficult to kill in cold blood.  Consider
his conversation with Jenna in 'Cygnus Alpha'.  (The visa dealer was in hot
blood)

I know exactly what you mean about screen tending to be accepted as canon.  I
accept all the TV episodes as canon even ones like 'Power'.  I don't accept the
radio plays because the breaks with continuity are too sharp - eg.  the use of
hyperspace and the complete contradition with 'Ultraworld'.  However, if the
breaks with the existing series were cleared up, then I might be forced to take
them as canon regardless of their virtues.

Whether the movie is good or bad is irrelevent from one standpoint.  I've been
writing PGP fiction for so many years that even if the movie was written by
Chris Boucher, had a subtle, devious Avon starring alongside Gareth Thomas and
Michael Keating, I think I would still continue to write varient outcomes of
Gauda Prime simply because it is such a liberating genre to write.

If you try and write sequels to a movie, you get scuppered if they do another
one.  I found that with the only Star Trek story I ever wrote.  

Judith 

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:47:47 EDT
From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie
Message-ID: <f1bb175e.2448ede3@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Julie wrote:

<< My philosophy is that if you expect things to turn out alright then they
 usually do. If it is any comfort this has worked for me for more than three
 dozen years now so yes, I am an optimist!   >>

I agree with this.  I think we should remain optimistic about the movie until 
proven otherwise, and be grateful that FINALLY there is going to be some new 
B7 television to watch.  I mean, it is all very fine and good to watch the 
old reruns and read the fanzines and listen to the tapes, but to actually see 
the group (or at least a large portion of it, I hope) together on the screen 
again ... well, I think it will be lovely.

Remember, too, that Paul wrote a very nice screen play that I, for one, would 
have loved to have seen as an episode.  With the natural constrictions that 
will come with the TV-medium, hopefully the excesses that we saw in his book 
will be avoided.

I just hope that we, in the US, will actually get to see the movie!

Gail

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:37:21 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@mail.geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990416143721.007c26a0@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:14 AM 3/13/98 -0700, Ellynne G. wrote:

>"Instead of space, we decided it would be cheaper to put you in
>an enchanted forest--"

Ellynne, that was simply Smurfy.

--Penny "I Shall Never Be Able To Look At Smurfette In Quite The Same Way
Again" Dreadful

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:40:15 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Space City <Space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] latest news from Avon club
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0416214015-063Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

LATEST NEWS FROM:
AVON - THE PAUL DARROW SOCIETY
16th April, 1999

Paul is to do a TV film called 'THE DREAMERS'.  He will play a character called 
Mr. Moon, who works for the government.  He's a MI5 type hardman  - complete 
with two 'henchmen' who never speak!   This film is a pilot which they hope 
will be turned into a series.  Paul says that it's a cross between The X-Files 
and The Avengers and he starts filming next week.

As mentioned by Brian Lighthill on the live BBC Chatline - Yes, there is to 
be a Blake's 7 TV Movie which they hope will be shown sometime in the Autumn  of
2000.  A lot of work still has to be finalised before any more can be said 
about this project.  Will keep you posted when I'm allowed to say more! 

ANN



-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:37:31 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0416213731-518Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Fri 16 Apr, VulcanXYZ@aol.com wrote:

> Remember, too, that Paul wrote a very nice screen play that I, for one, would 
> have loved to have seen as an episode.  With the natural constrictions that 
> will come with the TV-medium, hopefully the excesses that we saw in his book 
> will be avoided.

You liked 'Man of Iron'?   Ah well, it takes all sorts to make a world.

I found it hilarious.  The idea of Avon single-handedly taking on all these
super killer robots and defeating them was just silly.  Besides, Servalan would
have killed him when she had the chance.

He did write very well for Vila though.

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:56:29 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings
Message-ID: <19990416215633.77118.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain

Ellynne G. wrote:
>
>>"Instead of space, we decided it would be cheaper to put you in
>>an enchanted forest--"
>

Evil, Ellynne, e-e-e-e-v-v-v-i-i-l-l-l-l-l....

Perhaps we ought to put your name up as the writer for The Movie. 

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:28:31 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] B7 telemovie
Message-ID: <19990416232834.91245.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain

Warning - possibly pretentious laying-down-of-law following...

Even at this (two days after the announcement!) stage, I have no problem 
with stating firmly and clearly THE TELEMOVIE WILL NOT BE CANON. It's 
just another PGP. I didn't accept the Dr Who telemovie as canon either - 
or the Avengers movie. I disliked both of them (though I love the actors 
McGann & Fiennes) but that's not the point. Canon to me means the 
original work, and that's the original TV series.

It's too late to add to B7 canon. There are 52 TV episodes, and *that's 
it*. Whether the episodes are good or bad, doesn't come into it for me, 
and, were the radio plays perfectly in tune with the series (which they 
certainly aren't), I still wouldn't accept them as more definitive than 
good fanfic. Not even with the original cast. 

The same goes for any movie. And, like fanfic, the telemovie will stand 
or fall (IMO) on its adherence to the canon laid down in the series, 
including character.

While I hate to be negative this early in the piece, these are the wrong 
people to produce B7 anyway (of course, if they didn't no one might). 
Brian Lighthill doesn't even qualify in my book as a fan of B7, he 
clearly doesn't know much about the show and I'm beginning to doubt that 
he cares very much about it either.

And while I would never accept anyone but PD playing Avon (which sort of 
scuppers anything other than PGP, doesn't it?), I agree that *his* view 
of the character is wrong. I don't dispute his right to see and play it 
that way - in fact, in the series itself, I think it was the tension 
between his view and the writers' that produced something as wonderful 
as Avon, and if he'd seen and played the Avon the fans see, the result 
would have been much, much poorer (possibly intolerable). 

But if Avon is going to be *written* that way, I won't even bother 
watching it. If Blake (played by Gareth Thomas) isn't in it, I probably 
won't bother watching it. If Barry Letts writes it, I *definitely* won't 
waste my time. This particular beggar can too be a chooser, and I'll 
choose to watch Shadow and Star One again instead.

But even if (as Judith says) 'the movie was written by Chris Boucher, 
had a subtle, devious Avon starring alongside Gareth Thomas and Michael 
Keating,' I'd watch it, and possibly love it, but would not accept it as 
canonical. No matter how pretty the SFX are.

Judith goes on: < Whether the movie is good or bad is irrelevent from 
one standpoint...I think I would still continue to write varient 
outcomes of Gauda Prime simply because it is such a liberating genre to 
write.>

Please do <g>. After all, *your* view of what happens after the tracking 
gallery is every bit as valid (and probably a damn sight more true *to* 
canon) than Lighthill/Letts. We can always call the telemovie an AU 
piece...

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:36:49 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie
Message-ID: <3717BB81.24A67D89@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gail wrote:

> but to actually see
> the group (or at least a large portion of it, I hope) together on the screen
> again ... well, I think it will be lovely.

I think, though, that I'd rather see them together doing 'Midsummer
Night's Dream' (Vila as Bottom; Servalan as Titania; Avon as
Oberon; Blake and Jenna as the King and Queen; Tarrant as Puck),
or some such, as opposed to something that looks as though it's
going to be out of step with the characterizations of the series. (Plot
holes and bad science I expect and grudgingly accept; TV SF,
including B7, is full of them.) If, however, Boucher were involved in
the project, I would be bouncing all over the place, not only on the
list, but IRL, too.

> Remember, too, that Paul wrote a very nice screen play that I, for one, would
> have loved to have seen as an episode.  With the natural constrictions that
> will come with the TV-medium, hopefully the excesses that we saw in his book
> will be avoided.

An interesting point which brings up something I've always wanted to
ask. Without giving away too much of the plot, please, who's read
'Man of Iron', and how was it?

> I just hope that we, in the US, will actually get to see the movie!

Don't worry, if it happens (and I think it will), I'm sure we'll get a
chance at it eventually.

Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:22:00 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
Message-ID: <3717FE58.DFD5A2A@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sally wrote:

> And while I would never accept anyone but PD playing Avon (which sort of
> scuppers anything other than PGP, doesn't it?),

I could easily accept a recast with young actors, as long as an effort 
was made to be true to the spirit of the original. My concern actually
was that to see the originals do this would make it difficult for me to
separate it from canon. I just think that watching Fiennes and Thurman
screwing up the Avengers is easier to ignore than watching MacNee 
and Dame Rigg screwing up the Avengers would be. I'd prefer the 
original actors *and* stay true to the series, of course.

> I agree that *his* view
> of the character is wrong. I don't dispute his right to see and play it
> that way - in fact, in the series itself, I think it was the tension
> between his view and the writers' that produced something as wonderful
> as Avon, and if he'd seen and played the Avon the fans see, the result
> would have been much, much poorer (possibly intolerable).

This is exactly the way I've always chosen to view it. In the 
Horizon interviews, PD said that he thought the highest compliment was 
to be considered a 'dangerous' actor -- to take risks, in other words -- 
and I think he's quite successful at it. I admire this approach a lot, 
in fact; and I think it's what makes Avon Avon, PD's dangerous acting, 
restrained by good scripts and good directing. (Don't snicker, Neil -- 
what I mean to say is that the better the script and direction, the 
better PD's interpretation of the script becomes.) What I've been 
kvetching about is that if Lighthill agrees with this Avon is an 
utterly evil git idea, which from what he says, he apparently does, 
we're likely to get neither a good script nor good directing, and 
no restraint at all. That's scary.

> We can always call the telemovie an AU
> piece...

Thanx, Sally. Apparently I haven't read enough fanfiction yet to 
think of this. You've just salvaged my weekend.

Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:27:16 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings
Message-ID: <3717F184.CDAD3088@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ellynne G. wrote:

> "Cold blooded with an underlying streak of morality." Avon automatically
> corrected.

<chortle> Thanks, Ellynne.

>  Avon
> looked down and saw he was wearing some kind of black, monk's robe.  He
> was about to say he would have preferred something more in a Jesuit
> style, if he had to be disguised as clergy,

<snort>

> "You can't expect anyone to take a meglomaniac with blue skin seriously."

This line is begging to be in somebody's sig file.

> Before Avon could do anything, the man was gone.  He needed to get out of
> this nightmare but, first, he had to have a drink.

A new sub-genre: not Avon-Vila, not Avon/Vila, but Avon^Vila. 8-)

This was fun, Ellynne. Have a smurfy day!

Mistral
--
"The whole idea is an absurd fantasy."--Avon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:14:06 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie
Message-ID: <3717FC7D.E7BA92E5@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Re Man of Iron, Judith Proctor wrote:

> Besides, Servalan would
> have killed him when she had the chance.

Are you sure? She had several chances to kill him that
she didn't take.

> He did write very well for Vila though.

I did read where he said he had deliberately given the
best bits to Vila. I could construe this as encouraging.
Perhaps, if the new movie has good Vila, I could just
watch it with one eye open? <grin>

Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:09:59 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Fw: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat
Message-ID: <371817A7.791A3EB3@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ooops! I accidentally sent this just to Julie. 
Sorry, Julie, you get two copies. 

Julie Horner wrote:

> >>Yes, I'd
> >>say this was pretty much an attempt to push the telemovie. I can
> >>understand if the Beeb and Lighthill don't understand or care what
> >>the fans think, but Darrow?
> >
>
> I find that quite a mystifying comment. I mean, Paul Darrow probably *does*
> think that is what the fans want. Maybe his interpretation of the characters
> is different to many fans but I am prepared to believe that he genuinely
> thinks that this project is most people will welcome.

Sorry to be mystifying; I was trying to be terse. Let me try again.

I did say in my original post that I didn't mean to slam Mr. Darrow.
That's something I would *never* do. His contribution to B7 is
incalculable.

I also have reason to believe that he cares about the fans, and
thinks that they will want this project. I'm quite sure his motives
are the very best kind of motives.

I meant to be expressing bewilderment, not outrage. I am simply
a little confused about his attitude toward Avon, which has been
widely commented on, both on the list and elsewhere. I always
find myself wondering whether A) after twenty years, he still is
unaware of the gap between his view and the majority of the fans
(not, IMHO, remotely believable); B) he simply doesn't care about
the fans and what they think (still not, from what little I know of
him from those who've met him, remotely believable); C) thinks
the best thing to do is to keep playing Avon the way he's always
done, and let the fans draw their usual conclusions (very believable;
but in this case surely with his experience and intelligence he ought
to realize the need for some balance from the opposing view, in
order to create the tension Sally was referring to in her post?); or
D) is just winding us up, in order to keep us interested (now that's
a game I could play, but I'd be happier if I knew I was playing it.)

Or perhaps he's just doing his best to get us any B7 at all. Still, I'm
a little confused.

> >>Serve them all right if we tune out en masse -- but of course we
> >>won't; we'll protest loud and long,
> >
>
> What, even if it turns out actually to be good?

You must have missed the rest of the paragraph. I was talking about
before the fact. But the protests after TSC did only limited good with
regard to TSE, from what I've heard. By the time we know if it's any
good, we'll have tuned *in*, won't we? Rather confirming the BBC's
idea that it can throw any B7 rubbish at us that it likes, and have us
lap it up. The quality of the videos we get over here in America, for
example, is atrocious. And I'm talking manufacturing quality, not the
flaws from the original masters, which could be cleaned up quite a
bit, too, if they had any concerns at all about giving us decent
product.
I suppose they think we should be grateful they kept copies of it at
all, considering what they did to Dr. Who.

Well, at any rate, I'm sorry to have started a firestorm; but I
*don't* think that I'm the only fan feeling a little apprehensive.

Mistral
--
"A degree of apprehension is not inappropriate."--Orac

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:38:33 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings
Message-ID: <O5jzaIApO4F3EwPD@jajones.demon.co.uk>

In message <19980313.021434.8582.0.Rilliara@juno.com>, Ellynne G.
<rilliara@juno.com> writes
>In the background, he heard high pitched voices, singing, "La, la,
>la-la-la-la, la, la-la-la . . . ."

One of the more interesting crossovers I've seen. Can I have it for the
Space City zine?
-- 
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
        The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:42:21 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Fw: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat
Message-ID: <T560KOANS4F3EwMh@jajones.demon.co.uk>

In message <004601be881f$f43c2a60$144d95c1@orac>, Julie Horner
<jihorner@dial.pipex.com> writes
>What, even if it turns out actually to be good?
>
Given the people involved - that is most unlikely. Look at their track
record.

Of course, if they keep Paul Darrow from having anything to do with the
script, and get Chris Boucher to write it, we may be on to a winner.
Otherwise I fear it will be Dr Who telemovie all over again.
-- 
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
        The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:53:32 +1000 (EST)
From: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (Blake's 7 list)
Subject: [B7L] Website Re-Org
Message-Id: <m10YO2m-000TbVC@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text

Yo folks!

I have just done a massive reorganisation of my website, and some of
the sub-page URLs have changed, so if you are pointing in your
website to mine (hello Judith!) or have thngs bookmarked, you need to
change things accordingly.

The most important, and non-transparent one, is that the Refractions
page is now at
http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat/refract/
(the old URL was http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat/refract.htm)

I have moved around the other pages, but the change is transparent,
since the old file is now pointing to the new file.  However, it would
be safer to change your pointers to the new URLs, which are as
follows:

Enarrare page:
http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat/enarrare/
Blake's 7 page:
http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat/b7/
VR.5 page:
http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat/vr5/
WorkStorm page:
http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat/works/
Reviews page:
http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat/reviews/

Come check out my changes!  It's now got a more cool look, and
should be much easier to navigate.  (-8  (Thanks to htmlpp)

Kathryn Andersen
-- 
 _--_|\	    | Kathryn Andersen		<kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/      \    | 		http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/    | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
      v	    |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |	-> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:29:02 -0700
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990416232902.00854550@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I did read where he said he had deliberately given the
>best bits to Vila. I could construe this as encouraging.
>Perhaps, if the new movie has good Vila, I could just
>watch it with one eye open? <grin>

Mistral?
Did you say good Vila?
The mind goes.
<pant> <pant>
Ah....ah....I'll take good Vila.  <wicked smile>

Tramila

---------
Charter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
Vila's Intimately Corruptible Element
Am I corruptible?  Of course I am! and loving it!!!
---
Risa's Rebels (Sime~Gen)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:07:21 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0417110721-bc8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Sat 17 Apr, Sally Manton wrote:

> And while I would never accept anyone but PD playing Avon (which sort of 
> scuppers anything other than PGP, doesn't it?), I agree that *his* view 
> of the character is wrong. I don't dispute his right to see and play it 
> that way - in fact, in the series itself, I think it was the tension 
> between his view and the writers' that produced something as wonderful 
> as Avon, and if he'd seen and played the Avon the fans see, the result 
> would have been much, much poorer (possibly intolerable). 

I agree very much there.  I think the writing pulled Avon one way and Clint
Eastwood/Humphry Bogart/Burt Lancaster pulled Paul the other way and the
resulting conflict gave Avon his most interesting layers and contrasts.

All we need is a writer who can maintain that balance and we'd be a bunch of
happy campers.

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.

--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #134
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