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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 107
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon, Blake and a bit of Tarrant
Re: [B7L] what's so funny? (was - Assassin)
Re: [B7L] Avon, Blake and a bit of Tarrant (was Assassin)
Re: [B7L] Flat Robin #37
Re: [B7L] Flat Robin #37
Re: [B7L] Flat Robin #37
Re: [B7L] Scorpio
Re: [B7L] Rookie Fans
Re: [B7L] worst opening
Re: [B7L] Rookie Fans
Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Re: [B7L] Rookie Fans
Re: [B7L] what's so funny?
Re: [B7L] Scorpio
Re: [B7L] Scorpio
Re: [B7L] what's so funny?
Re: [B7L] what's so funny?
Re: [B7L] Nazi Space Rat Assassins
Re: [B7L] what's so funny?
Re: [B7L] Tarrant (was Assassin)
Re: [B7L] Scorpio
[B7L] Helping hand required
Re: [B7L] what's so funny?
Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
[B7L] Helping hands stretched out!
[B7L] Urza Jaddo on Redemption
Re: [B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc.
Re: [B7L] Tarrant (was Assassin)
[B7L] Quotes IRL
RE: [B7L] Rookie fans
Re: [B7L] Tarrant (was Assassin)
Re: [B7L] what's so funny? (was - Assassin)
[B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:51:35 EST
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon, Blake and a bit of Tarrant
Message-ID: <998f55cb.36f1f3f7@aol.com>
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Mistral wrote:
> Probably impractical, but it would be interesting to
> compare list members T/F scores with their perceptions
> of manipulation re Avon-Blake.
I think they both *conciously* try to manipulate others, including each other,
when it suits them. But with Avon, it's always a *deliberate* behaviour (even
when it's simple intimidation) whereas Blake seems to do it unconsciously as
well. Of course, what one person views as manipulation can easily be
interpreted as attempted persuasion by another. I expect that's how Blake
views himself, for the most part -- as persuading, rather than manipulating.
OTOH, Avon regards "persuasion" based on ideals and emotions instead of facts
and logic as uniformly manipulative. I'm smack in the center of the T/F
range, so perhaps I'm inclined to see them both rather neutrally on this
subject.
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:51:42 EST
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] what's so funny? (was - Assassin)
Message-ID: <2d590cd0.36f1f3fe@aol.com>
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Mistral wrote:
> I'd be glad to see
> some specific examples of humor that is not painful for
> *somebody* -- I do often try to think of some, but never
> can. It's one of the reasons that I rarely find 'comedies' anything
> other than excruciating to watch -- and you couldn't pay me
> enough to watch a sitcom.
In general, I'm inclined to agree with you. I normally detest so-called
comedy, precisely because so much of it *is* based on pain/embarassment. But
I do like some, at least occasionally: Third Rock, Red Dwarf, Black Adder,
Fawlty Towers and Waiting for God fall into that group. I also like really
absurd stuff, like Monty Python, a lot of which might qualify under your "not
painful for *somebody* " category. I mean, who could be hurt by The Fish-
Slapping Dance? <grin>
Nina
Ni! to you too...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:51:33 EST
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon, Blake and a bit of Tarrant (was Assassin)
Message-ID: <e16adbe.36f1f3f5@aol.com>
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Mistral wrote:
> Sally, I'd like some clarification here: what exactly do you meanwhen you
> say amoral? My understanding of the word means
> 'without morality'. Which I understand to mean a person would
> do whatever is convenient or strikes one's fancy at the moment.
> I don't ever see Avon as basing moral decisions on whims or
> convenience. What I do see is him having a completely *different*
> set of morals from the average person, which he *never* violates.
Avon's actually a pretty honorable and honest fellow, once you recognize that
he's adhering to his own strict set of rules. But to the society at large, he
probably would appear to be amoral, if not decidedly immoral. Amoral is a
term I think could be more accurately applied to Servalan or Travis
(especially Travis mark 2). Servalan, for example, mobilizes the fleet
against the Andromedans because she does not want to "be President of a ruined
Empire," not from any desire to defend her species.
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:59:34 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin #37
Message-ID: <36F1F5D5.E826ECC9@ptinet.net>
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Penny Dreadful wrote:
> [2] The great and powerful wizard Inteppe, although condemned by his
> mentors (the mighty mage My'yrze the Magnificent and his esteemed
> colleague Brygges the Bloody Brilliant) as "disorganized, disdainful,
> distrustful, disingenuous, and generally downright weird", went on in his
> lifetime to concoct many spells which future generations of lone brooding
> wizards found incredibly useful, including Inteppe's I-Have-To-Wash-My-
> Hair Spell, Inteppe's Don't-Touch-Me-I'm-Contagious Spell, and of course
> the infamous Inteppe's Leave-A-Message-At-The-Beep Spell. It is
> presumed that when he died his cats ate him.
Let's hope so. It would be a shame to live through it.Any chance of siccing the cats
on the god Merisu?
Just a thought.
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:31:50
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin #37
Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990319013150.22f75d00@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:59 PM 3/18/99 -0800, mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
>
>Any chance of siccing the cats
>on the god Merisu?
On the smartest, sexiest, most all-round fantastic creature ever to walk
upon the face (or rather the back) of A'Tuin? Never!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:57:50 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Flat Robin #37
Message-ID: <36F2037E.14879035@ptinet.net>
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Penny Dreadful wrote:
> At 10:59 PM 3/18/99 -0800, mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
> >
> >Any chance of siccing the cats
> >on the god Merisu?
>
> On the smartest, sexiest, most all-round fantastic creature ever to walk
> upon the face (or rather the back) of A'Tuin? Never!
Hmmmmm...... I'd have said that was Avon. <grin>
Mistral
--
"So tell us something new."--Avon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:05:05 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Scorpio
Message-ID: <36F20531.4A9E41B6@ptinet.net>
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Oops, I goofed. I should have said, Scorpio's weapons
were fired at the end of 'Games'.
mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
> Scorpio ran away from a fight on many occasions. I never heard
> any suggestion that Scorpio had anything but the most minimal
> weapons system. And off the top of my head, the only place they
> were fired was at the end of Gold.
> Grins,
> Mistral
> --
> Pontificato ergo sum
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:46:23
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie Fans
Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990319014623.231f0018@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Cynthia said:
>I dearly love Blake's 7 and I'll continue to enjoy it on my own, but THIS is
>not what I expected from fandom.
>
>Congratulations! You've eliminated one rookie fan.
I'm afraid this is one of the things you *have* to expect in fandom. Any
fandom. Human nature. I say don't give 'em the satisfaction of letting it
drive you off. I say *post even more*!
--Penny "Currently Soliciting Funds To Come Over To England And Track Down
Paul Darrow And Corner Him And Ask Him If He Were A Tree What Kind Of Tree
He Would Be" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 09:43:04 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] worst opening
Message-ID: <ussob1dg4n.fsf@sara.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
"Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> writes:
> Calle, would there be any problem with me reporsting the winning
> entries?
Well, as you say, there is rather a lot of it. It'd be better if you
edited it into a nice, good-looking, easy-to-read web page (I can
provide serverspace for it, if needed), but I won't object to an
equally edited posting.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
Hello? Brain? What do we want for breakfast?
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 09:54:19 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: NetSurfCK@aol.com
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie Fans
Message-ID: <usr9qldflw.fsf@sara.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
NetSurfCK@aol.com writes:
> not what I expected from fandom.
>
> Congratulations! You've eliminated one rookie fan.
If you leave a group of people because of one idiot among them, you're
going to spend your life doing a lot of leaving.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
Hello? Brain? What do we want for breakfast?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:11:25 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Message-ID: <36F214BC.642A7BF3@ptinet.net>
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Hi, all.
As a relative newcomer to fandom, I wanted to be
sure that I had something to contribute on this
topic before chiming in. I agree with most of the
things that have been said; but let's remember that
Vick raises some points that deserve real thought.
> The question I raise is based on the assumption that there are a lot
> of highly enthusiastic even obsessive young fans, late teens, early
> twenties out there,
It's been pointed out that new fans come in all ages.
Unreasonable obsession (Travis) and youthful enthusiasm
(Dayna, Tarrant) need to be dealt with separately.
> who thought they know their subject, know nothing
> of the tacit agreements known by the long term fans. It's rather like
> there is a rule book, but no-one has seen it.
Lovely point. "There is, however, a problem."--A
*Reasonable* new fans are more than willing to play
by the rules, once we know what they are. This idea of
tacit agreements is problematic. That's one of the reasons
there are FAQ pages, although I myself have made the
mistake of asking stupid questions that shouldn't have
been asked, because the 'tacit agreements' aren't on the
FAQs either. If the new fans don't know about them,
that's the fault of the old fans, not the newbies who have
no *way* to know about them.
Also, while Judith has a point about newbies catching on
to these 'tacit agreements', it might be wise to remember
that one of the reasons a lot of us flock to on-line communion
is because we're socially clueless IRL. You can't just assume
that we're going to figure it out. I've always appreciated it
when a more experienced fan has contacted me on the side
to say 'this is something you need to know'.
> The rookies, however, have no such obligations. They are free to
> write fanzines, run clubs, websites and even conventions without
> really knowing that their arrogance and nievity is damaging to fandom
> in general and annoying to the subjects of the fandom. ie. the actors
> who are tired of being asked the same questions over and over about a
> job they did 20 years ago, then being misquoted.
This is one of the things about going into the entertainment
business that has to be considered by the artist. Not all of
the regular actors still participate in the cons, etc., and *none*
of them are forced to. Either they enjoy it, or view it as part of
their job, to keep them working. This is just a fact of the
business. Fans keep you employed; in a very real sense the
actors are working for us; and we *do* have a *few* rights,
IMHO asking stupid questions when the opportunity to
ask questions is offered (stupid ones, not rude ones). They
can always say no. Also, when welcomed to fandom by other
fans, there is a lot bigger chance of *not* asking the artists
repeat questions, because one can find the answers via fanclubs,
other fen, etc.; when I want to know something about Gareth,
I'd sooner ask Judith than go chasing him down to ask him.
> This begs the question; do fans really have any moral
> obligations at all? And should they?
Absolutely we do. All of us, not just newbies. Fandom should
be as much about gratitude toward those people (not just actors,
but all involved in the production) who've given us so much
enjoyment, as it is about entertaining ourselves, IMHO.
The arts are not a business you go into for money;
you do it for love. That means appreciation is important. It
means a lot to an actor, writer, musician, etc., when you say a
sincere thank you. Gratitude also means recognizing that
they have a life that you're *not* a part of. But an entertainer
and his audience are bound together eternally; one cannot
exist without the other; when people stop reading Shakespeare's
plays is when he'll be truly dead. People do drift away from
fandoms as they go through the changes of their lives; do we
really want to let B7 fandom die out rather than sharing it?
That hurts all of us. Even though I've never been to a con, and
probably never will go to one, I appreciate and recognize the
work that Judith and everyone else involved put into Redemption;
as a B7 fan, Redemption made a contribution to my life by
helping keep the fandom vital. New fans keep it vital too.
IMHO, the solution is not to be insular, but welcoming.
Actually, go beyond that and 'adopt' the newbie of your choice.
If somebody's so appallingly obnoxious that they refuse
to cooperate after they've been patiently shown the ropes,
they can always be shunned by everybody at a later date.
I'd like to suggest that everyone on the list do what I've
already done -- write to Cynthia and ask her to stay.
Save B7 fandom -- Mentor a rookie!
And sincere thanks to Vick for bringing up a topic that
really *does* deserve to be thought about.
Cordially,
Mistral
--
"Help us; help us please."-- an unnamed decima
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:22:30 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie Fans
Message-ID: <19990319092231.5803.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
<--Penny "Currently Soliciting Funds To Come Over To England And Track
Down Paul Darrow And Corner Him And Ask Him If He Were A Tree What Kind
Of Tree He Would Be" Dreadful>
A worthy cause at last!! Where do I send my money???
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:31:05 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] what's so funny?
Message-ID: <19990319093108.10174.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Murray mentioned a whole heap of good things, finishing with:
<One scene I particularly like, although nothing funny is said, is when
Vila is preparing to beam down in 'Project Avalon', when Cally and Avon
are at the teleport. Villa takes his time about getting ready...>
I love this one too - especially Avon's expression as he's watching
Vila's time-wasting - sort of flummoxed, as if he can't believe *anyone*
could take this long...
Three bits from Bounty -
Blake - 'Don't take any stupid risks. (Pause) We're taking enough of
them down here.
Vila - 'He agrees with me...makes it all worthwhile somehow...' and the
exchange:
VILA: Avon.
AVON: What?
VILA: Shut up. (Avon stares at him, then turns away) Please. (Avon
smiles).
But my special favourite is in Gambit - Servalan trying to explain her
plotting to Jarriere. She is trying *so* hard to be patient (not her
strong suit) and he is making such *earnest* attempts to follow - and
failing so dismally...
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 04:56:39 EST
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Scorpio
Message-ID: <42eb7b21.36f21f57@aol.com>
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Judith asked:
> Can anyone give me a good excuse for Scorpio to run away from a fight?
Here are some relevant points from the series.
In TRAITOR, Vila and Soolin note that Scorpio isn't a match for the Federation
and can't even run away.
Vila: But if the Federation find out we're hanging around, we won't stand a
chance. Not in this ship. At least in the Liberator we could always outrun
them.
Soolin: About the ship. It was never designed to tangle with Federation
cruisers.
And while they improved on their ability to run away (with the stardrive) that
doesn't appear to have given them any more fire power.
In ANIMALS Tarrant doesn't consider fighting. He concentrates on an evasion
course.
In BLAKE there is no talk about fighting back, just avoiding the attackers:
Tarrant: Have we shaken any of them off?
The only time I can remember Scorpio firing at anything was when it destroyed
the Orbiter in GAMES. And it appeared to take a lot of resources to manage
the shot:
Avon: Slave, I need all the power we can muster. Sacrifice everything except
life support. Blast those feldon panels with everything we've got.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:09:34 EST
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Scorpio
Message-ID: <6dc2a622.36f23e7e@aol.com>
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In a message dated 03/18/1999 5:24:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk writes:
<< Can anyone give me a good excuse for Scorpio to run away from a fight?
>>
Because she's really nothing more than a somewhat souped up freighter?
Given the state of the engines, Dorian didn't seem to lavish much energy on
the ship. So if she did carry any weaponry, they would have been few and
light-weight for her size in comparison to other warships of the same type. We
also don't see any indications other than Slave of superior electronics on
board, and given Slave's ahh, quirks, that might not even be an improvement.
Nor is it likely the hull is re-inforced to any great extent to allow her
to absorb damage in a battle, something you'd want if you're considering a
stand-up fight. Since freighters and other civilian vessels are limitted by
economics more than military vessels, any "unessential" weight, equipment, and
armaments wouldn't be on it.
It appears that Dorian's philosophy was to hide rather than stand out.
Xenon base relies on its camaflouge to remain undetected. I suspect that he
relied on the camaflouge factor for Scorpio as well. By not adding any
unsuspicious modifications to it, he hoped to avoid trouble rather than having
to face or flee it. D. Rose
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:01:48 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] what's so funny?
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.990319135915.6503B-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mistral wrote:
>On a serious note then, I wonder what *is* the 'groaner' factor?
>I mean, if not for some deeply buried pain, why would a pun be
>'bad', at all? When I hear a 'terrible' pun, the groan that escapes
>me is quite literally a physical twinge. What's the explanation
>for that, then?
I think it's just because most puns are simply bad jokes. They really
stretch what's funny to the limit. They go beyond being funny to just
being crap! And it's a learned response - we know that we groan when puns
are made. I guess.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:04:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] what's so funny?
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.990319140242.6503C-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Alison asked:
>And here's another question - what in B7 still makes you (I mean anyone)
>laugh? What's the funniest bit?
Anything with Vila. Michael Keating is a genius. My favourite bit is the
bit in 'City' when the Keezarnians won't talk to him and he refuses to
move, chunters a bit and then says, 'OK, you've talked me into it.'
And I like the bit with the limericks in 'Ultraworld' with Orac going,
'Encore!'
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:32:21 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Nazi Space Rat Assassins
Message-ID: <023b01be7207$9a81fbe0$201dac3e@default>
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Una's right, this thread has moved a bit off-topic. However, pondering over
it, I think when I said that portrayal of Nazis demands that they be shown a
measure of respect suggests where I think scripts like Stardrive and
Assassin fall down. The villains just aren't given enough respect by either
the scriptwriter or the production crew or both. If I can't respect them as
credible adversaries, then their defeat is rendered meaningless.
Tying this in with the discussion on humour, I think the strength of B7's
humour lies in the way it comes out of the characters rather than gets
dumped on them as a deliberate joke. The Space Rats were dumped on, which
is why they aren't remotely funny. B7 wasn't a comedy show, it was a drama
in which the characters (main and guest) were allowed to show they had a
sense of humour. It seems to me that nearly all the favourite funny bits
quoted so far are just that - quotes, what people said rather than 'amusing'
(or not) things that happened to them.
I think my least favourite externally imposed gag has to be Vila getting the
corridor numbers mixed up in Countdown. Way too obviously contrived.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:52:14 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] what's so funny?
Message-ID: <023c01be7207$9b29d4a0$201dac3e@default>
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Well, since everyone else is listing their favourites... (Quoting from
memory so not one hundred percent word-dor-word accurate).
Shadow:
Blake - 'People collect odd things.'
Jenna - 'Look what you ended up with.' (Jenna's best line in the entire
series, IMO).
City at the Edge of the World:
Avon - 'We can't all be as reliable as Zen.'
Cally - 'I thought you were.'
City (again):
Cally - 'I'd quite like to be famous too. How about the woman who killed
Bayban?'
Gold:
Soolin - 'Something useful?'
Avon - 'Guns.'
Soolin - 'Something useful.'
Games:
Servalan - 'Your survival is becoming more miraculous by the minute.'
Moloch:
Servalan - 'What happened to Colonel Astrid?'
Grose - 'He had an accident.'
Servalan - 'And his second-in-command?'
Grose - 'He had an accident too.'
Lector - 'Yeah, it was a bad time for accidents.'
Children of Auron:
Vila - 'Why not? The Himalayas are quite tall at this time of year.'
City (yet again):
Bayban - 'It is an honour, sir.'
Vila - 'Oh, the honour's all mine.'
Bayban - 'That's what I meant.'
And I saw this one get an entire roomful of people laughing:
Orbit:
Orac - '_Vila_ weighs seventy three kilos...'
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:12:42 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant (was Assassin)
Message-ID: <023a01be7207$99b89160$201dac3e@default>
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Carol noted, re Tarrant:
>He was trying to impress his new associates, and he expected
>wanted rebels would be impressed with toughness. I think it was Sarah who
>added how well that fit in with young Steven trying to assume the macho
voice
>of a 35-year old for the screen test.
I've always understood that Tarrant was supposed to be around that age
anyway. After all, his first command was on the kairopan mission some 15
years before he boarded the Lib. The frequent attribution of youthful
impetuosity to Tarrant seems to overlook this fact. He can't have been more
than half a dozen years younger than Avon.
Carol will no doubt be dismayed to learn that I actually rather like
Tarrant. Anyone who gets up Avon's nose deserves a quiet clap now and
again. My favourite Tarrant moment was when he got Avon to call him 'sir'
in Rumours. Class.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:06:03 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Scorpio
Message-ID: <023d01be7207$9bc885a0$201dac3e@default>
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Judith asked:
>How well would Scorpio manage in a fight?
>
> I'd always assumed that its weaponry was the pits and was working a story
on
>this basis, when I remembered that dratted space chopper in Stardrive
happily
>blowing pursuit ships to kingdom come.
Soolin noted in Traitor that Scorpio's armament was not up to tangling with
Federation patrols. I hadn't considered this until now, but the lethal
space choppers do rather beggar the imagination. Not just in terms of
firepower, but perhaps also accuracy - three direct hits in a row? Ah well,
another nail in that episode's coffin.
>Can anyone give me a good excuse for Scorpio to run away from a fight?
It was faster than the opposition? (TD-12 cited in Animals.) I would say
that getting into a fight is always a risk unless you have overwhelming
strength, total surprise, or preferably both. Far safer to run away if
you've got the option.
Good reason for Scorpio to get into a fight - Tarrant's in command.
Even better reason - _Dayna's_ in command.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:22:44 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Space City <space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Helping hand required
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.990319141701.6503I-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I have just found, lurking at bottom of a pile of dust and other stuff,
tapes of a panel that Paul Darrow did in October 1981 at Newnham College,
Cambridge. I was given these *ages* ago, but have never got round to
listening to them because the person who gave them to me said that he
thought the tapes were really poor quality.
In fact they're fine - the only thing you can't always make out is
the questions. They're also hilarious. Paul is on absolute top form, and
he's just come from a day's recording 'Blake', so he is being really cagey
about the contents of the episode. He's playing to a packed hall, and he's
really playing up to them, particularly as Newnham is a female college!
I want to find out whether people have heard these/read transcripts before
and, if not, whether they would like to. If so, would someone be willing
to help me type them up? Real Life at the moment involves and *awful* lot
of transcribing, and I'm not sure I could manage more without going
bananas. The panel goes onto a second 90 minute tape, so there's quite a
lot of it.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:07:34 +0100
From: Murray Smith <mjsmith@tcd.ie>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] what's so funny?
Message-Id: <l03110701b317ecf0068e@[134.226.96.44]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Una mentioned that
>And I like the bit with the limericks in 'Ultraworld' with Orac going,
>'Encore!'
Sadly for me, I didn't think that this was very funny, due to the _content_
of the riddles, although the idea was itself very good. At the time I first
saw the episode I was 11, had read similar limericks in joke books, and
wondered why, several centuries in the future, they couldn't have thought
up some new ones. I was recently reminded of this feeling when listening to
the 20th century phrases in 'The Sevenfold Crown'.
Murray
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:44:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.990319141620.6503H-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Vick said:
>The question I raise is based on the assumption that there are a lot
>of highly enthusiastic even obsessive young fans, late teens, early
>twenties out there, who thought they know their subject, know nothing
>of the tacit agreements known by the long term fans. It's rather like
>there is a rule book, but no-one has seen it.
I think this confuses youth and enthusiasm, as I think many people have
already said. If people are obsessive about *anything*, that's a problem,
and it's probably got nothing to do with the subject matter at all. 'Fever
Pitch' explains all this.
I like seeing kids and young people at conventions. I think it's brilliant
that there are people out there who weren't even born or can't remember
first transmission who get the same amount of fun out of this as I do.
I'm not sure what you mean by tacit agreements. I don't think I've
operated with any in mind at any point of my involvement in fandom. I'm in
this to have fun, to be with people that I like, and do things that I
enjoy doing. And I probably don't know my subject - I can't remember bits
of script or details of names etc.
>The rookies, however, have no such obligations. They are free to
>write fanzines, run clubs, websites and even conventions without
>really knowing that their arrogance and nievity is damaging to fandom
>in general and annoying to the subjects of the fandom. ie. the actors
>who are tired of being asked the same questions over and over about a
>job they did 20 years ago, then being misquoted. The rookie
>website/fanzine can often be embarrassing to behold.
I can't see what these 'obligations' are. People can do what they want. I
didn't go to a single guest panel at Redemption - it's not my sort of
thing. There were people who found the disco too noisy and didn't stay for
it. I didn't go to some panels cos I wasn't interested - some people
probably thought my panels looked like they'd be rubbish and didn't go to
them. No doubt there were people at Redemption who thought I looked a
total tit draped over Iain and screaming words like slash, probe and
penetrate. But I enjoyed myself. Bugger embarrassment.
>Even then there's the poor public opinion of fandom in general to
>consider.
I don't give a monkey's about the poor public opinion of fandom, to be
honest. If people want to take the piss out of me, they're going to do it
anyway, and not bother to listen to why I like the show or why I'm a fan.
Family and people at work who know I do this sort of thing sometimes start
with the 'God you're sad' line, but they can stuff it, quite frankly. You
don't have to play up to it to feed their insecurities. I like this show, I
like being a fan, I like being with and talking to the other people who
make up the fandom. If other people want to take the mick, that's their
own concern. I don't have to justify myself to them *at all*.
>This begs the question; do fans really have any moral
>obligations at all? And should they?
I have enough difficulty with morality just on an everyday basis. The last
thing I want is it interfering with my hobby!
Gosh, I feel more strongly about this than I thought I did! Vick, I don't
want to come across as aggressive - I'm just unsure what buttons your post
was intended to press. I do feel strongly about not being ashamed about
the person I am.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:17:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Space City <space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Helping hands stretched out!
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.990319151605.9599F-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Wow! Within - what - 20 minutes of posting, I have more offers than I
need! Many thanks to Alison and to Ellie, who are the lucky transcribers
of choice!! Also, thanks to Mistral, who offered but is in the US.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:00:52 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Urza Jaddo on Redemption
Message-Id: <199903191407.OAA23393@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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For the convention report page, of course.
A very nice and cosy convention, I must say.
Went out for dinner with the committee on Thursday - the local Chinese
restaurant was OK, but a little expensive for the quality, I thought.
I was very surprised and delighted to run into Paso Leati, now the highly
regarded Ambassador Mollari. So we drank and made merry for the rest of the
weekend. Married to the ruler of the Universe, eh? That's what I call going
up in the world.
Of course, Londo also made me feel more at home among all the humans. It
was the first time I have visited Earth, and so I was a little nervous.
There were only a handful of us Centauri - myself, Londo, the excellent
Cartagia... I also enjoyed the Klingon party - they're not truly civilised
as we are, of course, but they do at least have some basic knowledge of the
importance of fulfilling one's duty to joy.
The Drazi war was amusing, (we won, of course!) though I had hoped we'd be
allowed to execute some of the green Drazi for their abduction of Gareth...
But if I were to list every good thing that happened, I'd be here all
night, and even I have some important matters of State to attend to...
-Urza
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:57:36 -0500
From: Susan Beth <sbs@world.std.com>
To: blake7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc.
Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19990319085736.007558b4@world.std.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
s.thompson8@genie.com wrote:
>And what is all this about "rookie fans"?
What's wrong with being a 'nookie fan', I'd like to know? Without 'nookie
fans', half of fandom would vanish! Nobody would buy Adult or Slash zines!
All those publishers would have to drop out of fandom and take up
streetwalking to pay off their printer's bills! And without 'nookie fans',
who would write the stories to fill up those zines in the first place, did
you ever think about that? Whole slash conventions would vanish from the
calendar without 'nookie fans' to subscribe. And filks! At least
two-thirds of all filks are aimed at 'nookie fan' tastes! And look at
Space City! It was a 'nookie fan' who *created* the list in the first
place! Every *single person* on it is a--
Eh? What's that?
Oh.
Nevermind.
Susan Beth
(sbs@world.std.com)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:33:14 EST
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant (was Assassin)
Message-ID: <d2dece5b.36f2602a@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Neil wrote:
> I've always understood that Tarrant was supposed to be around that age
> anyway. After all, his first command was on the kairopan mission some 15
> years before he boarded the Lib.
While it's true the series goofed when they didn't completely change "Kairos"
to match the fact that they'd hired a younger man and intended to play Tarrant
as younger, they did attempt to fix their blooper. The relevant quote for
Tarrant's mission to Kairos is:
JARVIK: Knew him. A few years ago. He served as lieutenant on the
Kairopan escort shuttle. It was his first command.
Tarrant was at Kairos as a lieutenant a "few" years before "Harvest." Since
that isn't consistent with the Harvest period, fans have to figure out why the
escort shuttle was there at a time that wasn't consistent with the ten years
between harvests.
Granted we are never given canonical ages on most of the characters (and one
can speculate on a wide variety of possibilities), but the overall
presentation of Tarrant seems to indicate (to me) someone quite a bit younger
than Avon, someone to match the age of the actor who got the part. Since it's
basically in the eye of the beholder and I'm short on time, I won't repeat the
references that indicate (for me) that Tarrant was young.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:05:57 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Quotes IRL
Message-ID: <36F267D4.23400EA1@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi, all.
Una and I have discovered that we both use the quote
'Some days are better than others, Section Leader'
frequently IRL. Also, 'All knowledge is valuable' pops
up a lot. Does anyone else use any particular B7 quotes
on a regular basis IRL (with people who aren't B7 fen?)
Waiting with a worm on my tongue,
Mistral
--
"And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:05:40 -0600
From: Reuben Herfindahl <rherf@tursso.com>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Rookie fans
Message-ID: <0F144D2FBA41D211A6A000A0C9DD630DF378@STPNT4>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: VJC <csm80316@port.ac.uk>
> To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 9:55 AM
> Subject: [B7L] Rookie fans
>
>
> Just something I've been musing over.
>
> Are rookie fans dangerous?
> In the UK we tend to have reasonable relationships with actors etc
> from Who and B7, so fandom seems a fairly friendly place, quite
> unlike the theatricals and commercialism of the Trek scene.
> The question I raise is based on the assumption that there are a lot
> of highly enthusiastic even obsessive young fans, late teens, early
> twenties out there, who thought they know their subject, know nothing
> of the tacit agreements known by the long term fans. It's rather like
> there is a rule book, but no-one has seen it.
Interesting point, since you bring up Trek, I'd like to use it as an
example. First of all I'd like to point out that I am an original Trek fan.
To me the Next Generation was fun, DS9 is interesting and Voyager is heresy.
I'm 24, so I had my first encounters with organized fandom at about 15 or
so. I started a local fan club, part of one of the larger national clubs,
IFT. I published newsletters, organized charity drives, held monthly
meetings and we took groups to Minneapolis for the Creation Cons. At one
particular con, I noticed something different. It was at about the time
Best of Both Worlds part II aired. TNG had prior been viewed as
interesting, but the majority of fans still thought they would never compare
to their beloved 60's crew. At this con, the organizers thought it would be
fun to mock the upcoming political elections and have a mock rally with
Kirk/Spock vs. Picard/Riker. To my suprise, and many others the
Picard/Riker faction was quite big, not near as much as the Kirk/Spock, but
bigger than I would have guessed. Fast forward to today. I can't have a
discussion about Star Trek with most younger fans I meet. I get too worked
up. The Original Trek, is now the "moldy" Trek. Dated, boring 60's crap.
The Next Generation is good, but they'd rather watch Voyager and harp on at
length about how great a charecter Cups of D (opps I mean 7 of 9) is.
I don't go to cons anymore. The original cast is not as much in demand, and
all the glory that was original Trek, now barely shows up. Pocket Books
quit publishing the Original Trek books on a bi-monthly schedule, and the
presence of "moldy" Trek stuff at cons is very diminished.
How does this relate to B7 and rookie or newbie fans? Well, the original
Trek certainly isn't gaining too many of them. The fun discussions we have
on this list and SC are such a key part of this fandom to me. That was
always what I enjoyed about Original Trek fandom, discussing, disecting and
having every director, writer and guest stars name familiar not only to you,
but those you were having discussions with. I joined a Trek list supposedly
for original Trek and quit after discovering it was more of a "lets bash
Spock" list than anything.
What happens if B7 is in someway reborn, or new fans quit coming. The old
connections will hold for a while I suppose, but eventually the number of
people who know what you are talking about diminishs. I'd really hate to
see this happen. I hooked my Girlfriend on the series, and a few other
people through borrowing them tapes. Sure some of the newbie questions are
annoying and all that, but I answer them. Online, I understand the
temptation to put up a page or publish. When I first got into B7 fandom a
few years back, I was amazed my Yahoo search turned up so little, and what
it did turn up was out of date, so I immediately put up a quick episode
guide. Is this detramental to fandom? I don't think so, but I suppose
there are greater dangers involved once you start talking about dealing with
the actors. But I think most of them have thicker skin and have got to be
used to getting the same questions asked.
I just recently finished reading a Harlan Ellison short essay entitled
Xenogenesis. It appears in the first Edgeworks volume, and deals with a far
more serious threat, the asshole fan. He relates a few horror stories that
fellow authors have run into with fans, ranging from horridly rude to
someone actually throwing a cup of warm vomit into Alan Dean Foster's face.
Reuben
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:18:36 -0800
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant (was Assassin)
Message-ID: <36F286EC.48C52EAC@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mac4781@aol.com wrote:
> I guess we're just going to have to accept our tastes are different.
I suppose you're right; how sad. <sigh> I shall just have to hope
to find some other member of the Tarrant Nostra whose view of
Avon is closer to my own and therefore can help me understand
the Toothy One better. After all, if I were ever to attempt to
write a PGP, you wouldn't want me to kill him off, would you?
> But
> you'll be happy to know that there are lots of versions of your Avon in
> fanfic, so there's plenty out there for you to enjoy. You might want to give
> Hellhound Avon a try.
Hmmmm. From what I've read in reviews, I've always inferred
this one was a little depressing for my taste. Perhaps I've
misunderstood? At any rate, I do plan to try to wade through
pretty much everything eventually, maybe even a Tarrant
wallow or two ;)
> I'll keep a look out for other stories to recommend
> when I'm zine browsing.
Thank you, Godmother.
Grins,
Mistral
--
"The difficulty is not technical - it is more one of
attitude."--Orac
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:19:11 -0600
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] what's so funny? (was - Assassin)
Message-Id: <199903191813.MAA08479@pemberton.magnolia.net>
Nina said: <stuff snipped>
>...I also like really
>absurd stuff, like Monty Python, a lot of which might qualify under your
"not
>painful for *somebody* " category. I mean, who could be hurt by The Fish-
>Slapping Dance? <grin>
Well, the poor *fish*, of course!
(unless it volunteered) :-)
Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:46:19 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc.
Message-ID: <19981030.014621.10070.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:32:55 -0800 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
>Kathryn, maybe you'd better not read this until you
>finish those stories you're working on ;)
>OTOH, all this really means is that Cally has feelings for
>Avon, and he knows it. The alien was absorbing Cally; she
>could have easily misinterpreted or overlooked Avon's actual
>side of the relationship.
Avon knew he could trust Cally to stop the alien from killing him, even
when she couldn't act to save herself. Because she did it for _him_ and
not one of the others, that seems to state her feelings for him go pretty
deep. And Avon, whether he's comfortable with it or not, knows this.
There was also the opening scene. Avon knew Cally was going through pain
and decided to do something about it.
> As I've said before, I was in the
>A/C camp myself for a while; but in the third season I found
>that the sequence 'Children of Auron', 'Rumors of Death',
>'Sarcophagus', and 'Ultraworld' made it clear to me that (as
>somebody suggested re Dayna and Tarrant) Avon and Cally
>had thought about it; possibly tried it; and made a mutual
>decision that it wasn't going to work for them.
I thought they were _not_ thinking about it. That is, they cared about
each other and it had was going in a romantic direction but Avon wasn't
ready to admit it and Cally wasn't going to push him before he was ready
(like I said, hopeless romantic).
As a lonely
>telepath who needed intimacy, and an introverted thinker
>who needed emotional distance, IMHO the relationship
>would have been painful for both of them, and totally
>unworkable. I think it's the pain of that knowledge that
>we're seeing in Cally's eyes at the end of 'Sarcophagus.'
>I do think there's love between them, just not romantic love.
>(That's a tragic-romantic viewpoint, don't you think?)
I think Avon _wanted_ emotional distance more than he _needed_ it. But
then, I didn't see pain in Cally's eyes at the end. To me, it seemed she
knew he'd risked his life to save her and, on some level, been forced to
acknowledge how she felt about him and how he felt about her. He just
wasn't ready to deal with it. Cally seemed comfortable with this and was
willing to give him the space he needed. She probably felt it was only a
matter of time.
Time, as it turned out, they didn't have (that's another tragic-romantic
viewpoint).
To be honest, it surprises me how much of B7 is open to interpretation.
I see these things and think "That's what it meant. What else could it
mean?" But someone else sees the same scene in a completely different
way.
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End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #107
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