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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 66
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Apology
Re: [B7L] If you give me your attention,
Re: [B7L] re: safety
Re: [B7L] A *real* personality test.
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon vs. Blake (and Tarrant)
[B7L] web page addition
Re: [B7L] Apology
Re: [B7L] Android?
Re: [B7L] Re: Safety
[B7L] B7 and Meyers-Brigs
Re: [B7L] re: safety
Re: [B7L] Re: Safety
Re: [B7L] re: safety
Re: [B7L] Apology
Re: [B7L] Re: Safety
Re: [B7L] If you give me your attention,
Re: [B7L] Apology
Re: [B7L] re: safety
[B7L] re: safety
Re: [B7L] If you give me your attention,
Re: [B7L] Re: Cally and Jenna
RE: [B7L] Re: Meyers-Briggs Testing
[B7L] Gowns and bears
[B7L] A little added levity for Pat.
Re: [B7L] re: safety
Re: [B7L] B7 and Meyers-Brigs
[B7L] Avon over Horizon
[B7L] OT: Jingo (was Re: Cally and Jenna)
Re: [B7L] Avon and Blake
Re: [B7L] Seek-Locate-Destroy 2/2
[B7L] Naming clans
Re: [B7L] Re: Alphas
Re: [B7L] Re: Safety
Re: [B7L] Re: Safety
Re: [B7L] If you give me your attention,
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:35:54 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
CC: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Apology
Message-ID: <34F58BDA.483E@jps.net>
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>
> >....and then where will our "love those nasty boys on Blakes7" list be?
>
> Better off. Safe. Sane. Having children. Being happy. Having a happy
> ending. Growing to old age. Dropping more hormones than sense.
> ect...ect....ect....
>
> Tramila stops. WAIT! That doesn't sound like Avon and Vila or even Blake
> and that other guy (Tramila smiles sweetly to Carol then runs like a bat
> outta h*ll. You can't hurt me. We have a mutual friend.<g> <quiver in
> fear> <---See, just like Vila.)
You've got a point... mental health-wise, Blake & Avon could take a cue
from Vila. If they had, maybe Blake & Avon could've survived Guada
Prime.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:41:01 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Julia Jones <julia.jones@jajones.demon.co.uk>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] If you give me your attention,
Message-ID: <34F58D0D.5917@jps.net>
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> > I hope the proper worship of Soolin has
> > been conducted in my absence...
>
> 'Fraid not. We really needed a Soolin acolyte to balance the BITCHes,
> ASSes, Tarrant Nostra and occasional Gan Fan.
Are there other Dayna fans besides myslef? Can I set up
D.ayna's A.dmiring M.ob of N.utters?
DAMN!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:37:13 -0600
From: "Reuben Herfindahl" <reuben@reuben.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: safety
Message-ID: <006901bd42cc$6d061a40$660114ac@misnt>
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>>shh! hush! Questioning Orac's unused capabilities will blow plot holes
>>in the Blakes7 universe bigger than blasts from a Tachyon Funnel!
>
>PAT!
>It's just a box of flashing lights. <hands on hips>
Hey! He's just looks cheap because the technology is so much more advanced
than ours. (repeats several times in head in order to reassure himself).
Hmm, I suppose this would be a bad time to admit I named our primary server
Orac?
Reuben
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:49:37 -0800
From: Jay <jmcguiga@succeed.net>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] A *real* personality test.
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980226074937.006cf84c@succeed.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:05 AM 2/27/98 +1030, Lindley wrote:
>[Jay]:
>
>>Well, I ended up as a Scary Spice.
>
>Very good. Practice your roar...
But I prefer to purr! <g>
>
>>Jay
>>100% Avon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:32:31 -0600
From: "Reuben Herfindahl" <reuben@reuben.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon vs. Blake (and Tarrant)
Message-ID: <005801bd42cb$c699e290$660114ac@misnt>
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>It's specifically stated that the android probably doesn't realise that
>it is one - it thinks of itself as human. It certainly passes the
>Turing test even when someone's riding along in its mind. It's only in
>the analysis afterwards that Dayna realises what's wrong.
>
>What's your definition of murder - killing something that's genetically
>human, or permanently shutting down a sentient being?
Ohh, dear. This dredges up memories of that awful last Aliens movie.
Reuben
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:11:01 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] web page addition
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0226091101-b49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Richard's now finished uploading the entire Sevencyclopaedia onto the web page
(with Neil Faulkner's permission). He's put in links for all the
cross-references, so hopefully it should be very easy to browse through.
So, if you want to know the names and details of every single planet in the
series, or how many people Soolin shot, or which espisode a stadler link is
using in, or what species of birds are seen on which planets, or the names of
the children Blake was acused of molesting, etc. then it's all there.
In zine form, this ran to 117,000 words and about 140 double column A4 pages, so
it makes a fair sized data base.
Sevencyclopaedia is still available as a paper zine - 10 pounds in the UK, 11 to
Europe and can be bought via my US and Australian agents. I'll have copies at
Deliverance.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:22:30 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Apology
Message-ID: <199802261822.NAA04525@yfn.ysu.edu>
Tramila wrote:
> Better off. Safe. Sane. Having children. Being happy. Having a happy
> ending. Growing to old age. Dropping more hormones than sense.
> ect...ect....ect....
>
> Tramila stops. WAIT! That doesn't sound like Avon and Vila or even Blake
> and that other guy (Tramila smiles sweetly to Carol then runs like a bat
> outta h*ll. You can't hurt me. We have a mutual friend.<g> <quiver in
> fear> <---See, just like Vila.)
"Carol" as in moi? "Other guy" as in Tarrant? Now if I could figure
out the mutual friend... Or do Tarrant fans have any friends? ;-)
You've probably stopped running now that Michelle has revealed all of
our TN secrets. That's the last time I stuff her full of cookies.
But back to that "other guy," let's at least hope he manages to
live to an "old age." Poor abused Tarrant.
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:33:01 -0500
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Android?
Message-ID: <199802261833.NAA04916@yfn.ysu.edu>
Deborah wrote:
> Although Orac speculates that Deeta's killer is an android, is it possible
>that it was instead a cyborg? What with the mind-wiping capabilities of the
>Federation, I find it easier to think they re-programmed a human and augmented
>his physical reactions, rather than built an android whose thoughts could fool
>millions of people. If he were a non-combatant in his "prior" life, that would
>account for the lack of combat instincts.
>Any thoughts? D. Rose
The purpose of the exercise was to start a war. And the way they planned
to do that was to expose that Vinni was something not allowed by the rules
of the convention: an android. It's why Dayna had to intervene before the
physical examination. And it's why Tarrant had to use Dayna's experi-
mental weapon, so he could destroy the evidence. I don't know whether
that completely rules out a cyborg. I suppose it would depend on the
degree of augmentation and how that was accomplished. I agree that
Vinni's ability to fool millions seems like a tricky bit of work
for an android. Though I think they mentioned that the android was
programmed to believe it was human. That would have to be pretty
sophisticated programming, which appears to be possible. Orac is an example
of a very human-like personality in a machine.
Do I appear to be waffling? That happens when you think out loud
while answering e-mail.
Carol McCoy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:55:56 -0000
From: "Jennifer Beavan" <J.Beavan@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety
Message-Id: <E0y88a9-0005dX-00@tungsten>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Patti said:.
> Anyhow, Carol McCoy won't be surprised to see me post this
> comment about Avon shoving a gun in Tarrant's belly. I still
> maintain that it is possible from the evidence to show that Avon
> did that to protect the crew -- to finally alienate them enough
> to let him go down and take what was probably the biggest risk
> he'd ever taken on the remotest chance that Blake really was on
> Terminal.
It's a nice thought but I'd rather go with Cally on this one.
I'm sure Avon did have a protective reason for going down to Terminal
alone, *always* provided the crew didn't get in his way, But if they HAD
seriously tried to interfere I believe he WOULD have killed them Remember
it wasn't just Tarrant he threatened but all of them.
Re Carol K's comments about Sue - I certainly didn't see anything rude in
her posts. My favourite character is Blake but I love him in relation to
Avon. What I don't believe in is the idealised Avon who wouldn't have
spaced Vila, who wasn't responsible for killing Blake, who was good and
noble, a terrific leader, a fantastic success as a human being and who
really cared about other people's freedom and happiness.Boring!
Arguing that, with evidence from canon, doesn't make me an Avon-hater, or
rude and aggressive. It just means my viewpoint is different from someone
else's.
Jennifer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 06:35:05 +1100 (EST)
From: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (Blake's 7 list)
Subject: [B7L] B7 and Meyers-Brigs
Message-Id: <m0y895F-0008r9C@welkin.apana.org.au>
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Well, now I've had a chance to read a bit more and think, I'll blather
on a bit more.
I disagree that Avon is INTP. He's definitely INTJ. From what I
understand, the J-P continuum is about scheduling versus spontenaety,
planning versus impulsiveness. And Avon is a planner. He thinks out
the possibilities beforehand, and decides on his contingencies. His
careful planning in Rumours of Death, his exhaustive questioning of
Orac in Horizon about his chances on his own, his actions in Terminal
- he expected that it was a trap, and planned accordingly. His plans
didn't always work, but that doesn't mean he didn't plan.
Yes, he doesn't appear, in the fourth season, to have the confidence
described in the profile of an INTJ, but heck, that lack of confidence
in his own judgement is to do with his judgment of *people* (which by
this time, particularly after Rumours, has taken a hell of a beating).
Dealing with people is an NT weakness (unless they've managed to
analyse their way to a good approximation) which Avon has in full.
Here's a quote which I think very apt:
"Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's
Achilles heel. While they are capable of caring deeply for others
(usually a select few), and are willing to spend a great deal of time
and effort on a relationship, the knowledge and self-confidence that
make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead
them in interpersonal situations.
"This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the
social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and
less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which
most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate
matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be
naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and
misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that
INTJs really want people to make *sense*. :-) This sometimes results in
a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of
expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic
relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and
directness."
Doesn't that fit Avon?
Cally I still think is an INFJ, because of this comment in a
description of INFJs:
"Counselors have strong empathic abilities and can become aware of
another's emotions or intentions-good or evil-even before that person
is conscious of them. This "mind-reading" can take the form of feeling
the hidden distress or illnesses of others to an extent which is
difficult for other types to comprehend. Even iNFjs can seldom tell
how they came to penetrate others' feelings so keenly. Furthermore,
the iNFj is most likely of all the types to demonstrate an ability to
understand psychic phenomena and to have visions of human events,
past, present, or future. What is known as ESP may well be exceptional
intuitive ability-in both its forms, projection and introjection.
Such supernormal intuition is found frequently in the iNFj, and can
extend to people, things, and often events, taking the form of
visions, episodes of foreknowledge, premonitions, auditory and visual
images of things to come, as well as uncanny communications with
certain individuals at a distance."
They're psychic, in other words. Whether or not Cally is an INFJ or
an INFP, she's definitely INF.
Blake, I think, is ENFP. Extroverted, understands people and is
motivated by his feelings. Just because he is *intelligent* enough
to carry on analytical conversations with Avon, doesn't mean he's a T.
Remember this from Spacefall?
Jenna: At least you're still alive.
Blake: No! Not until free men can think and speak. Not until power is
back with the honest man.
Avon: Have you ever _met_ an honest man?
Jenna: Perhaps.
(Blake's 7: Spacefall [A2])
Blake's *passion* for justice and freedom - he's an Idealist, not a
Rational.
I put him as a P because he isn't as much of a planner as Avon. Not a
*strong* P, but he tends not to think in the long-term, tends to
improvise more and so on. (Pressure Point is a classic case).
It's interesting to see the NT-NF relationships here, how they
complement each other. Blake was at his best with Avon to analyse and
plan for him - and Avon-without-Blake was at his best with Cally to
facilitate and act as conscience - (not that Avon doesn't have morals,
it's just that he's not an idealist). Avon braked Blake's
recklessness, and Cally braked Avon's pragmatic ruthlessness.
As for Meyers-Brigs itself, of course it has the dangers of *any*
classification system - if people take it as prescriptive rather than
descriptive, they put themselves in a box and believe that they can't
move out of it. The point of it all is for (self-)understanding, so
as to facilitate changes in self and interaction with others. People
change. I know I've changed - if I'd taken the test ten years ago, I
would have been more I, more T and more J. Because all it can look at
is behaviour and self-described attitudes, and I've changed my
behaviour and attitudes over time, sometimes very consciously. I'm
now less shy, more compassionate, more spontaneous and less uptight
than I used to be. And all to the good. Which basically means that
for some people, who are more mature, taking the test is pointless
because they've learned over the years, to round out their weaknesses,
so they end up being a muddle somewhere in between. But still, it's
fascinating stuff. I found it really interesting.
Kathryn Andersen
(20 days to takeoff!)
-===-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Avon: It could be a trap.
Gan: It's not a very good one, then. We're suspicious of it
already.
Avon: The test is not whether you are suspicious but whether you are
caught. (Blake's 7: Bounty [A11])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:43:42 -0800
From: Jay <jmcguiga@succeed.net>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: safety
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980226114342.006d2bd0@succeed.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Disclaimer: I haven't seen this episode in a very long time, so my
perception may be all wrong. So please don't jump down my throat.
At 09:13 AM 2/26/98 -0500, Carol wrote:
>
>
>Jackie-me-Jackie are the quotes:
>
>>
>>Tarrant: "I can dump you anytime I like, the others would`nt stop me"
>>
>>at which time Vila agrees to go to Keezaarn.
>
>Interesting sequence there. It's not until Tarrant mentions that
>the others wouldn't stop him that Vila agrees to go. Why would
>Vila believe that Avon and Cally would toss him off the ship?
>Have they been bullying him as well?
Well, I wouldn't put it past Avon, but I doubt if Cally would agree to
space him. Tarrant's still "the new guy on the block" (right?), Vila
didn't know him well enough to realise Tarrant is just trying to throw his
weight around and takes him seriously, like he would Avon. I very much
doubt Tarrant would have followed through on his threat if Vila continued
to refuse.
>
>>After Vila has gone down Avon warns Tarrant to stop picking on Vila.
>
>Avon's warning came a bit late to help Vila. Why didn't he step
>in sooner? That's always seemed rather hypocritical to me.
That's our Avon<g>
>
>>All of this *implies* that this is not an isolated incident for Tarrant
>>to *pick on* Vila.
>
>I don't get that interpretation at all. It's a typical Avon-Tarrant
>war of words.
Agreed. But Avon is right here in one respect. He is consistant in his
put downs of Vila.<g>
>
>>How am I doing so far? Have I convinced you that Tarrant is a bully,
>>yet?
>>:->
>
>When I see a group who work and fight together, who risk
>their lives for each other, I have to believe that they are pretty
>nice people.
I'm not sure about nice people. They are a group who get along pretty well
together, despite all the petty bickering. They appreciate each others
talents and accept (to a certain extent) each others falabilities.
And I can't understand why fans want to twist that
>relationship into something nasty where Tarrant is concerned.
>His shipmates liked him, respected him, were willing to
>die for him. They would probably be the first to defend him
>against your charges.
>
I believe so to. Here I am defending Tarrant, one day I may even get to
quite like the fellow. Now if only I didn't have to put on sunglasses when
he smiled.<g>
Jay
100% Avon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:48:13 -0800
From: Jay <jmcguiga@succeed.net>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980226114813.006d207c@succeed.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:55 PM 2/26/98 -0000, Jennifer wrote:
>
>Re Carol K's comments about Sue - I certainly didn't see anything rude in
>her posts. My favourite character is Blake but I love him in relation to
>Avon. What I don't believe in is the idealised Avon who wouldn't have
>spaced Vila, who wasn't responsible for killing Blake, who was good and
>noble, a terrific leader, a fantastic success as a human being and who
>really cared about other people's freedom and happiness.Boring!
If Avon had been as you described, I'd have hated him too!! Avon has
plenty of faults and that's why I like him so much.
Who wants a perfect hero?? Not me.
Jay
100% Avon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:43:13 -0800
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: safety
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980226114313.006a6f30@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Hey! He's just looks cheap because the technology is so much more advanced
>than ours. (repeats several times in head in order to reassure himself).
>
>Hmm, I suppose this would be a bad time to admit I named our primary server
>Orac?
>
>Reuben
As a LAN Administrator in training, I'm going to have to remember that!!!!
LOL
Tramila
Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:51:30 -0800
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Apology
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980226115130.0071fee8@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>"Carol" as in moi?
yes
> "Other guy" as in Tarrant?
yes
>Now if I could figure out the mutual friend...
We've never meet but I have only heard good things about you Carol.
Perhaps in 1999, I will get to come to MM and meet you then.
Sorry. This lady is in HIDING!!!! Have too. Life is too rough right now.
This group has been great for me. It's made me smile again.
>Or do Tarrant fans have any friends? ;-)
Of course Tarrant fans have friends. See above.
>You've probably stopped running now that Michelle has revealed all of
>our TN secrets. That's the last time I stuff her full of cookies.
>
>But back to that "other guy," let's at least hope he manages to
>live to an "old age." Poor abused Tarrant.
LOL. He's not abused but he sure does like to abuse Vila. grrrrrrrr.
PS. Carol. I'll admit to having read some of your stories but that was
years ago when I was first into B7. Pat has renewed my interest in the
fandom. <g> Thanks Pat. :)
Tramila
Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:02:18 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety
Message-Id: <l03130303b11a97450e7e@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Nicola (whose mind is a maze of twisty little passages, all alike)
Helen:
> Nicola, the BBC wants you. They want to do a CAT scan and save money on
>sets. (One thing, does your mind have woobly walls?)
Very probably, after the week I'm having :/. After all, most of the rest of
me is wobbly, why should my brain be any different? And Avon can rock my
console any time he likes 8).
Hmm, if the structure of my brain is stored inside a computer, does that
mean my "me" is in there, too? So I'd actually _be_ the corridors etc those
lovely lads are running up and down? I'll stop this speculation before it
becomes only fit for the eyes of those on TheOtherList. In the meantime,
I'll work on my Sid 6.2 persona. Be very afraid...
;)
ttfn, Nicola (YKYBRTMB7EW you start posting stuff like this...)
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:09:59 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] If you give me your attention,
Message-Id: <l03130301b11b7b945eea@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
(I think I have the attributions right - apologies if not)
Lindley:
>> > I hope the proper worship of Soolin has
>> > been conducted in my absence...
Julia:
>> 'Fraid not. We really needed a Soolin acolyte to balance the BITCHes,
>> ASSes, Tarrant Nostra and occasional Gan Fan.
Helen:
>Are there other Dayna fans besides myslef? Can I set up
>D.ayna's A.dmiring M.ob of N.utters?
>
>DAMN!
I've been considering a support group for Jenna fans, and of course the
most important job is finding the name. The only one I could come up with
is Jenna Is Sadly Misunderstood - but it has a rather unfortunate
abbreviation...
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:13:46 -0500 (EST)
From: mmoyer@mto.infi.net (Michelle Moyer)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Apology
Message-Id: <v01550100b11b36b681aa@[206.31.91.36]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:51 AM 2/26/98, Tramila wrote:
>>But back to that "other guy," let's at least hope he manages to
>>live to an "old age." Poor abused Tarrant.
>
>LOL. He's not abused but he sure does like to abuse Vila. grrrrrrrr.
Okay, I just recently rejoined Lysator after a few months' absence, so I'm
sorry if this was just discussed lately, but =when= does Tarrant really
abuse Vila? And how is Tarrant's treatment of Vila =any= worse than the way
the rest of the Liberator and/or Scorpio crew treats him?
I'm a Vila fan too, but I just don't see this at all.
--
Michelle Moyer mmoyer@mto.infi.net
"Batman's car has a morals clause? He kept a young boy in a cave."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:34:50 -0600
From: "Reuben Herfindahl" <reuben@reuben.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: safety
Message-ID: <01f601bd42f6$00ad7e40$660114ac@misnt>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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>>Hey! He's just looks cheap because the technology is so much more
advanced
>>than ours. (repeats several times in head in order to reassure himself).
>>
>>Hmm, I suppose this would be a bad time to admit I named our primary
server
>>Orac?
>>
>>Reuben
>
>As a LAN Administrator in training, I'm going to have to remember that!!!!
>LOL
>
>Tramila
>Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
>Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
Other names used (aside from the dreaded NT_EDI, etc...) Rasputin and
Pertwee.
Tee-Hee The great thing is that no one gets it (aside from Rasputin).
Reuben
P.S. Remember while training that NETWORK stands for Nothing Edible This
Week Or Reuben Kills (just a reminder that keyboards and mice don't like
crumbs and pop spills) .
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:01:34 +0000
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re: safety
Message-ID: <34F5D82E.72A@termlow.co.uk>
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Tramila wrote:
>
> >Jackie wrote:
> >> Orac has a yellow streak even more pronounced than Vila`s.
>
> Heh! Vila's not yellow! He's conservative and smarter than the others by
> not getting involved. He knows when to lie low. Did Blake do that? Did
> Avon? or even Tarrant? Vila's just smarter than the average B7 guy, he
> is. Sure is. Anybody can see that!
There, there, hush now. Don`t be scared, look - see? all the bad
monsters gone now!
Vila does such a great impression of being a coward, that you forget the
times that he has been a big brave macho man. Remind me again - WHEN
was that? Apart from the time he was chasing Kerril`s legs. Oh, yes.
He helped Tarrant and Dayna badger Shrinker: he helped Tarrant and Dayna
badger Keiller.
>
> >ha! his supreme arrogance makes Avon Miss Modesty by comparison
> >> So how come he did not *see* (either with the ships inboard or external
> >> sensors) what Pinder was actually loading onto the ship?
>
> Panicked Pat P wrote:
> >shh! hush! Questioning Orac's unused capabilities will blow plot holes
> >in the Blakes7 universe bigger than blasts from a Tachyon Funnel!
>
> PAT!
> It's just a box of flashing lights. <hands on hips>
No, it`s not. I saw it for real, at Space City 88. AND I saw a
*working* Zen there. A full size working Zen, it was auctioned off VERY
cheaply. I wished I`d bid for it, but I did`nt think my other half would
calmly accept me walking in on the sunday night carrying Zen!
>
> hehehe <Tramila runs faster tonight than all nights before it.>
Being a "Chapter member and Pres of V.I.C.E. I`m sure you must have had
a lot of practice in running away *with dignity*! :->
Jackie
primarily an Avon fan (not that anyone would guess!), but likes Vila as
well, despite the bashing I give him.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:28:53 +0000
From: Katharine Woods <kjw@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] If you give me your attention,
Message-ID: <34F5DE95.2FA1612C@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
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> I've been considering a support group for Jenna fans, and of course the
> most important job is finding the name. The only one I could come up with
> is Jenna Is Sadly Misunderstood - but it has a rather unfortunate
> abbreviation...
I only came up with this one for those who are fans of Blake and Jenna.
You know what to call yourself.
Jenna's Entirely And Laughably Obsessed Unctuous Supporters
Katharine (Woods)
kjw@whitecrow.demon.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:43:30 +0000
From: Katharine Woods <kjw@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cally and Jenna
Message-ID: <34F5E202.6C85FB61@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
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Tom Forsyth wrote:
> Katherine Woods asked:
<tetchily>It's an A in the middle</tetchily>
> Maybe male pheromones boost the mind powers of Auronar women, so that Cally
> was able to fight back at the creature hard enough to disrupt its control.
>
> Of course, this means that going anywhere near Auron on Valentine's day
> would require a serious set of mental ear-muffs.
It's a good job that I wasn't drinking coffee when I read this or it
would have splattered all over my keyboard. Probably via my nostrils.
So, while Avon was lip mashing and demonstrating his manual dexterity,
was Cally, back in her cabin, growing a beard?
Katharine (Woods)
kjw@whitecrow.demon.co.uk
"I've only been a woman for tem minutes but I hate you male bastards
already" - Corporal Nobbs
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:01:12 -0000
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: Meyers-Briggs Testing
Message-ID: <01BD4304.743C9720@host5-99-51-200.btinternet.com>
Pat wrote:
>It was pointed out during the initial thread that INTs tend to cluster
>in techy fields, so many of them are accustomed to cutting edge computer
>gear - hence have internet access.
I think this is the more likely reason. What we need to do now of course is
get several "paper only" B7 fans to take the test and see what happens...
Louise (who also came out INTJ)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:35:09 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Gowns and bears
Message-Id: <l03130302b11b81bbd11a@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Katharine Woods wrote:
>> And on the subject of YKWYBWTMB7W, I vote Servalan's red dress in Gambit
>> as best wedding gown. And I have a Gan teddy bear.
Actually, I think that red gown would look the best on me of all her
costumes - I suit red better than black and muuuuch better than white. Does
the mask come with it? :)
Gan teddy bear - perfect! He definitely ranks at the top of my "most
deserving of being immortalised as a teddy-bear" list.
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:42:12 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] A little added levity for Pat.
Message-Id: <l03130304b11b83ef5590@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Tramila looks at Pat then gives a smile and bounces all of the channel to
>add a headache to her other..........<oops> Sorry.
Tramilla, dear, you're channeling Tigger again.
Everyone! stay away from rivers!
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:39:52 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re: safety
Message-Id: <l03130303b11b835b32db@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Reuben:
>Hmm, I suppose this would be a bad time to admit I named our primary server
>Orac?
This might be one for the YKYBWTMB7W list. Just don't go near any black
holes...
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:24:05 -0000
From: Alison Page <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 and Meyers-Brigs
Message-ID: <888535521.1024110.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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I like Katharine's analysis of Avon and Cally, which seem spot on to me. I
would say Avon is defintely INTJ - wants to be certain, happy with answers.
> Blake, I think, is ENFP. Extroverted, understands people and is
> motivated by his feelings. Just because he is *intelligent* enough
> to carry on analytical conversations with Avon, doesn't mean he's a T.
I would say ENFJ because he too has answers rather than questions. He has
inner certainty, misplaced or otherwise. ENFJ is the 'guru' figure (IMHO)
which is Blake down to the ground. ENFP is the court jester.. I don't mean
jester like Vila, out for a laugh, but jester like in King Lear, or like
....uh.. Lenny Bruce or Ben Elton.
> I put him as a P because he isn't as much of a planner as Avon. Not a
> *strong* P, but he tends not to think in the long-term, tends to
> improvise more and so on. (Pressure Point is a classic case).
A good point but I think when it comes to ideals Blake isn't winging it,
he's the Man With The Plan. OK it's a crap plan, but he hasn't realised
that yet.
BTW I like what Katharine says about people maturing into compensating for
their own faults. I think that was Jung's belief, and after all he invented
the underlying theory. However I was absolutely delighted to discover
the ENTP faults listed all over the web. Brilliant! At last the perfect
excuse for being lazy, feckless, aggressive, easily discouraged, bored with
details.. It's the best news I've had this year. My advice to those
finding their type is forget the strengths - you know those anyway - just
enjoy the weaknesses.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:35:00 -0800
From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" <patti.mcclellan@kyl.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon over Horizon
Message-ID: <Megw.5273594@powell.fabrik.com>
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I've always liked this scene, where Avon tries to decide to
leave his shipmates and strike out on his own. I like it because
I strongly suspect that Avon manages to make the time run out
unconsciously on purpose, so he can do the right thing without
damaging his heartless bastard image.
I think that laugh at the end of the scene is Avon laughing
at himself. I believe that he's complex enough not to be able to
suss out all of his own motives at all times, though he'd
doubtless say they had something to do with acquiring safety
and/or wealth and/or power. Often, what he does and what he says
are so schizophrenically different that it makes my head spin.
His reaction at having the choice taken away from him almost
looks like relief. Now he has an excuse to risk death to rescue
his shipmates. Fourth season Avon wouldn't have needed an
excuse. He'd have just snarled at anyone who questioned his
right to keep "his" crew. But earlier on, he sometimes needed a
"cover story" for doing the right thing against his own better
judgment.
Patti
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:14:56 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] OT: Jingo (was Re: Cally and Jenna)
Message-Id: <l03130300b11bb573f82b@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Katharine (Woods)
>kjw@whitecrow.demon.co.uk
>
>"I've only been a woman for tem minutes but I hate you male bastards
>already" - Corporal Nobbs
*chuckle* I loved this aspect of Jingo's plot! and somehow it seems
appropriate for B7 discussion. Can't think why, though.
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie
Dunedin, New Zealand
nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:18:26 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Blake
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980226183045.1514D-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On 25 Feb 1998, Kinkade.Carol wrote:
> I'm way behind on my email reading so this may be an old subject but I've seen a
> great many posts from Sue Clerc that indicate she's of the opinion that if
> you're an Avon fan you MUST be a Blake hater.
Really, I said that? I don't remember saying that...Of all the
strong opinions I've posted, I don't think that was one of them because
it's not one I hold. There are too many Avon (Blake, Tarrant, Vila,
Soolin, etc.) fans to think of them all as a monolithic group. I'm sure
there are, for instance, fans who like Tarrant but would prefer not to
affiliate themselves with the Tarrant Nostra, Avon fans who don't slaver,
disgustingly or otherwise, and _I_ am the only Blake fan who's a
B.I.T.C.H. (there are many bitches on the list, but only one B.I.T.C.H.,
that's my motto 8-).
> Hence, her rude and insulting
> responses to Avon fans.
Rude and insulting? God damn it, I was going for vicious and
brutal! *sigh* Back to the drawing board...
> Or am I misinterpreting???
Since I'm pretty sure I never said liking Avon=hating Blake, I
think so, but I don't know what exactly you're responding to...Is it
possible you generalized to "all Avon fans" from something I said
to one or two specific people about specific things they'd said?
> (proud member of A.S.S.)
No comment. 8-)
Shela Ma wrote:
>Where do you think A.S.S. came from?
I'm not sure which answer to go with here. 8-) It does crack me up
to see in sig files, though. Woo hoo! Net.immortality! 8-) My fee for
creative name consultant is payable in chocolate, btw. I'm still waiting
for the Tarrant Nostra to adopt the much more elegant Tarrantula--think
of the limbs.
> But Sue's not the only one. It seems
>most of the Blake fans believe if you're an Avon fan it follows that you
>HATE Blake
I've never met a Blake fan who said anything like that. Is it
possible whoever you encountered was talking about one person, i.e.
she'd met a person who identified herself as an Avon fan and repeatedly
slagged off Blake and extrapolated from there? I mean, there are Avon
fans who do that and one can easily get the impression it's standard
if you encounter them in a group.
>Gasp! You don't really expect harmony in a Blake's 7 universe, do you?
><g>
One of the things I really liked about B7 fandom was how long it
held out against the creeping tweeness, the encroaching preciousness, of
so many online fandoms. I swear reading some lists and fan fic is like
being smothered in cotton candy while "Muskrat Love" plays on infinite
loop in the background. The gushing, the <wave, wave, wuggle>ing back
and forth, the horrendous warm fuzzy cuteness that makes me picture
posters as the children-with-big-eyes paintings come to life. It's only a
matter of time before con art shows are overrun with Precious Moments
figurines of the characters. Oh, the humanity.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:26:15 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Seek-Locate-Destroy 2/2
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980226191926.1514F-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Judith Proctor wrote:
> I always assumed the Molecular Shift Detector was used in future episodes but
> never mentioned. Don't you ever wonder why they teleport down outside buildings
> so often, rather than directly into them as would seem to involve a lot less
> effort?
I figured they didn't want to chance landing in the middle of
walls, doors, nuclear reactors or security forces. Thinking of Blake's
discussion with Bellfriar in "Killer" re: not knowing what's there till
you get there. Also, I suppose personnel might hear them even if they
don't see them materialize...although I think the teleport noise is
variable--we hear it but the people in the show don't always.
> She told him the range of the teleport for starters, because later in the
> episode, Travis knew when Liberator was out of teleport range.
He might've guessed based on what the Federation knew from its
ow project...Apparently, she didn't tell him about the cipher machine.
Maybe she didn't tell him anything. I guess I'm more interested in what
Travis asked ("Does HE ever talk about ME?" 8-), now that I think about
it, than what Cally might've given up. Blake doesn't seem concerned about
a security breach, although he is with Avalon, so maybe Cally didn't
know enough about the ship to be a threat if she cracked. That would
probably mean Saymon "read" the ship through her eyes but Cally didn't
retain any information.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:45:02 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Naming clans
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980226193711.1514H-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Some suggestions for fan clans in search of names:
Vilans
Daynuts
Jentiles
Travisties (been done, I think)
Ganders
Servalan's Elite Xterminators...but I like Servalan's Unctuous Kiss-asses
because I can see the "SUK it!" buttons so clearly and it's one of my
favorite sayings from my new fandom. And, of course, anti-Serv fans can
chant "You SUK!"
Soolin...see above. 8-)
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:13:54 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Alphas
Message-Id: <E0y8Eef-0006PW-00@neodymium>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Pat P wrote:
> PS - wibbles? aquatic web-footed tribbles?
I have no idea where "to wibble", "wibbling" and "wibbles" came from. I
first developed extreme signs at Cambridge, but I'm sure I knew the
terminology beforehand. Blackadder IV certainly knew "wibbling" - on
placing the underpants on the head and the pencils up the nostrils, he
pronounced the distinct word "ber...wibble". Or did I dream it?
Tom Forsyth.
P.S. The above is a pretty good definition-by-example of "to wibble".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:28:13 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety
Message-Id: <E0y8Eem-0006PW-00@neodymium>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Alison blushed:
> Can I just thank anyone who has been following this thread who has
> restrained themselves from telling me off for calling the 'Scorpio' the
> 'Liberator' in every one of my posts. I must say people on both lists are
> always very kind to me about my infelicities with naming and remembering
> details, particularly as the details of canon are so argued-over. Perhaps
> you think I'm a hopeless case :-) You're right.
Oh yeah. Oops. Well, I joined in, so I'm not one to nit-pick! That
introduces a slim possiblity. Maybe Liberator could perform these
high-velocity pickups because Zen's so cool (yes, I know he couldn't
operate the teleport in theory...). But in Scorpio, Slave wasn't hooked up
to the teleport at all, and Avon just threw the thing together in a hurry.
So maybe they couldn't do all this fancy high delta-vee transfer stuff and
had to stick to stationery orbits. I don't recall them doing any
hit-and-fades in Scorpio the way they did in Liberator.
Look - over there - a straw! Get it, quick! It will help us in our
plot-holing exploits.
Tom Forsyth.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:07:46 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Safety
Message-Id: <E0y8Eed-0006PW-00@neodymium>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Helen K said:
> > Nicola (whose mind is a maze of twisty little passages, all alike)
> >
> Nicola, the BBC wants you. They want to do a CAT scan and save money on
> sets. (One thing, does your mind have woobly walls?)
Depends how much booze they give her, I suppose.
Tom Forsyth.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:04:59 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] If you give me your attention,
Message-Id: <E0y8Ef0-0006PW-00@neodymium>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Helen K said:
> Are there other Dayna fans besides myslef? Can I set up
> D.ayna's A.dmiring M.ob of N.utters?
Damn! Found out again. :-)
Tom Forsyth.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #66
*************************************