From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #319 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume98/319 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 319 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Re: High Council Restoration Re: [B7L] RPG Re: [B7L] Free time again Re: [B7L] RPG [B7L] RPG [B7L] Re: RPG [B7L] Re: worst cast Fwd: [B7L] RPG Re: [B7L] RPG [B7L] B7L- red lobster suit ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 07:02:36 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: High Council Restoration Message-ID: <02bb01be3169$1f745f80$5b1aac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bit of an ancient thread, I know (over a week old!) but there was a comment I wanted to make but never found time for. Until now... > Anyone got any theories on why the High Council was alive and kicking in > "Rumours of Death", and yet it had to be "restored to power" later on, > as reported in "Traitor"? > > Perhaps Servalan dissolved it after the coup, in retaliation for Sula's > betrayal. > Practor, in 'Traitor', referred to Servalan as 'the Supreme Empress', but in 'Moloch' she was still calling herself President. So sometime between Moloch and Traitor she would seem to have gone up in the world. She could have dissolved the High Council (not impossibly in conc hydrochloric) at the same time she appointed herself Empress. This was probably her last gasp at hanging onto whatever precious little power she had. (Grose in 'Moloch' strongly implied that she didn't have very much, even at that late stage.) I know it's general fan lore that she was deposed whilst on Terminal, but there's actually no solid evidence for that in the aired series. Mind you, it does make sense. I can't remember if she was definitely cited as President or not in 'Deathwatch'. If so, the dissolution of the High Council probably took place after this episode. Who actually deposed Servalan anyway? Neil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 06:51:52 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG Message-ID: <02ba01be3169$1e70f940$5b1aac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Calle wrote: >That's how you're *always* supposed to use the rules! The rules are >there to *help* the game, not hinder it. You clearly take a different attitude to rules than I do. I prefer to go by the book unless a particular rule (a) doesn't work, (b) is far too complicated for my feeble brain or (c) is obviously just plain crap. That goes whether I'm playing or GMing, or whether the rules work for or against my character. Rules offer a semblance of structure to what would otherwise be unmanageable chaos. When I'm GMing, I roll the dice a lot, even if it's just a freeform luck roll to see if the KO'd guard's uniform fits or whatever, and I go by the dice unless the result is going to leave the PCs totally boxed in. >In over 16 years of GMing, I've only had the supercharacter >problem with teenage boys. They don't have to be teenage. Come to think of it, they don't even have to be boys... >Actually, the opposite problem (giving >characters so many disadvantages that they become totally >dysfunctional) is in my experience much more common. Lucky you! I get medics with shotguns implanted in their arms. Presumably to rustle up a bit of trade when things get slack. >I once got to play Servalan in a Travaller game. She was the >commanding officer for an expedition to some frontier planet. It was >enormously entertaining. Several times I managed to get other players >so filled with impotent hatred that they couldn't even talk :-) The only series character I every played was Servalan, and then as an NPC. But yeah, great fun! ><opinion> >Before designing a system, the designer-to-be should at least have >played one level-based system (AD&D, RoleMaster), one skill-based >system (RuneQuest, Call of Cthulhu), one advantage-based system >(GURPS, Ars Magica), one very simple system (TWERPS), one extremely >detailed system (Timelords (no, it doesn't have anything to do with Dr >Who)), one very serious game (Pendragon), one very silly game >(Paranoia, Toon) and a just plain odd one (Over the Edge, Amber). ></opinion> Oh yeah? So how come good games got designed before some of the above came out? Obviously a wide experience of different systems comes in handy but I don't think you need to be familiar with all those different types (if you're designing a serious game, you don't need experience of a silly one, and vice versa). I'd say what you need above all is an intuitive grasp of statistics. And degrees in history, physics, sociology... I've designed two systems. The first worked as a swords'n'sorcery game, but failed to make the transition to SF. So I used what I learned designing that to come up with a second system, which works equally well for S&S and SF (the fantasy rules especially have had a fair bit of playtesting; they work, and rather well at that). Both designs were grounded in experience of AD&D, RuneQuest, WFRPS, Twilight 2000 and Star Wars, with a dash of MERP, CoC, Traveller, Shadowrun, and Aliens (not that the last gave me much inspiration, since nobody understood it, least of all the GM). I've also used GURPS and Ars Magica for research without actually having played them. I haven't so much as sniffed at TWERPS, Pendragon, Toon, OtE or Amber. Sure, you don't get it all absolutely right first time, or even second time, but then how many commercial games do? After supposedly exhaustive playtesting, yet? (Why else do we get all these New Revised Editions?) So while I'd agree that a would-be games designer ought to have experience of a fair few different systems, just to be aware that there is more than one way of handling things, it needn't be half as wide as you're claiming it ought to be. And ultimately, of course, the system is just a means to an end. The Perfect RolePlaying System will still fall flat without a strong plot, compelling background and exciting characters. Have them and even a crap system will shine, which is how I've managed to have some brilliant sessions of AD&D, a crap system if ever there was one. >> All in all, I think GURPS is a very silly game - it leaves far too >> much open to interpretation (and hence argument). > >Also known as "flexible enough to fit the GM's vision". It's just >about the only game I know of that manages to have a rigid structure >without turning into a straightjacket. But I guess that's mainly a >matter of taste. When the rules start telling characters how to behave, then the game *is* a straitjacket. If I were running GURPS, I'd declare all mental disadvantages off-limits from the word go, except maybe a couple like Addiction and Combat Paralysis which a definite physiological dimension. The rest are the sort of things players ought to roleplay as a matter of course, without any need for their integration into the rules. But otherwise, yes, it is extremely flexible, albeit in a clunky and half-impenetrable way. I'm really getting into this thread, best one since I subscribed. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:38:19 +0000 (GMT) From: "U.M. Mccormack" <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Free time again Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95q.981227103558.28770A-100000@red.csi.cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Someone said (sorry, I lost your name): >Floyd is the kind of music that needs to be listened to whilst being >still Very much so in my case. I fell asleep half way through their concert at Earl's Court in (?) 1994. Hope everyone had a smashing Christmas. Una ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 07:09:35 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG Message-ID: <ebadbc9b.3686237f@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-12-27 02:24:22 EST, you write: << I get medics with shotguns implanted in their arms. >> I guess your players just don't understand. A good medic wouldn't use a shotgun. They'd have a hypo-dart gun, with each finger projecting a drugged dart; paralytic, narcotic, lethal poison, or hallucinegenic. And for melee skills, they would specialize in scapel-wielding(as one of my Klingon-playing collegues once did.) I've been enjoying this thread of conversation immensely. As far as Gurps goes, I don't use they system, but I collect the books for the resource material they provide. They give me a starting point in my researching on various genres, and allow the players to understand a bit about topics they might not otherwise be familiar with. As for B7 characters in games, I've yet to run any of the B7 as NPCs, giving I'm currently running a fantasy series, but I've used both Avon and Vila as models for characters in Star Wars. But my players remain properly terrified anytime I bring in a beautiful woman with short hair in a gown, or a one eyed one armed man into play for some reason. D. Rose ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:12:42 EST From: SuzanThoms@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] RPG Message-ID: <c6a38d07.3686789a@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> Wot, no Attractiveness? Surely he's worth 15 points minimum >> on that <g>. Mathematical ability seems likely. > Not with that first season haircut. AWWW!! I like Avon's 1st and 2nd season haircut. In fact, (except for the red lobster suit) I like the way Avon dressed 1st and 2nd season bettter than most of his 3rd and 4th season outfits. Avon's early look was extremely appealing. Surely he deserves 15 points for attractiveness. Avon's Angel Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:56:29 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: [B7L] Re: RPG Message-ID: <199812271956_MC2-64E0-50B0@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kim the Smart Vet said >The most complicated parts are the combat rules, > but there probably wouldn't be much hand to >hand combat--so you wouldn't see "I rolled a 3, >that's 27 modified--do I hit?" too often. Just do it very slowly, like Clive James said... Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:56:34 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: [B7L] Re: worst cast Message-ID: <199812271956_MC2-64E0-50B4@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Roger the Shrubber wrote: >Basil Fawlty as the manager of Freedom City Now this one I really like... If Basil is Krantor, can Manuel be Toise? Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 20:27:14 EST From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Fwd: [B7L] RPG Message-ID: <2ae81e0d.3686de72@aol.com> Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_914808435_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_914808435_boundary Content-ID: <0_914808435@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Suzan the Avon Angel writes: << I like Avon's 1st and 2nd season haircut. In fact, (except for the red lobster suit) I like the way Avon dressed 1st and 2nd season better than most of his 3rd and 4th season outfits. Avon's early look was extremely appealing. Surely he deserves 15 points for attractiveness. >> Yes, yes, yes! He certainly was attractive! Only 15 points? I don't (unfortunately ) know much about gaming, but surely he deserves more points than that! And that red suit -- I don't know ..... I rather like it! Gail G. (Another Avon Angel <larger sigh>) --part0_914808435_boundary Content-ID: <0_914808435@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <blakes7-request@lysator.liu.se> Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.5]) by air-zc02.mail.aol.com (v55.3) with SMTP; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:19:39 1900 Received: from samantha.lysator.liu.se (samantha.lysator.liu.se [130.236.254.202]) by rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA20032; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:19:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from list@localhost) by samantha.lysator.liu.se (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07085; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:14:05 +0100 (MET) Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:14:05 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: samantha.lysator.liu.se: list set sender to blakes7-request@lysator.liu.se using -f From: SuzanThoms@aol.com Message-ID: <c6a38d07.3686789a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:12:42 EST To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Subject: [B7L] RPG Resent-Message-ID: <"MiLeDC.A.puB.rjnh2"@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Resent-From: blakes7@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> archive/latest/15716 X-Loop: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Precedence: list Resent-Sender: blakes7-request@lysator.liu.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> Wot, no Attractiveness? Surely he's worth 15 points minimum >> on that <g>. Mathematical ability seems likely. > Not with that first season haircut. AWWW!! I like Avon's 1st and 2nd season haircut. In fact, (except for the red lobster suit) I like the way Avon dressed 1st and 2nd season bettter than most of his 3rd and 4th season outfits. Avon's early look was extremely appealing. Surely he deserves 15 points for attractiveness. Avon's Angel Suzanne --part0_914808435_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:32:54 -0500 From: "Kimberly D. Ashford" <thesseli@msn.com> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG Message-ID: <0206e5935051cc8UPIMSSMTPUSR05@email.msn.com> >It makes for a great prequel, though. You tell the players to choose >characters from the series crew, then you run a really, really bad >blood'n'guts session killing off all but one or two of them. For the >next session, they get to play the new recruits. A small group of >rebels, led by a *seriously* bitter and nasty (NPC) Cally (or whoever >is left over from session one). For added spice, put her in a >wheelchair, give her a couple of bad burn-scars and boost her psychic >powers so that the PCs can't keep anything secret from her. Sort of >like Santa Claus on a bad angst-trip. "She knows if you've been good >or bad..." This sounds great! Kim ----- Visit the Starbucket website at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/5508/stories.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:08:36 -0000 From: "Debra Collard" <Debra@whisson1.freeserve.co.uk> To: "B7L" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: [B7L] B7L- red lobster suit Message-ID: <000301be3274$242ee200$322b883e@whisson1globalnet.co.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE3273.F1359100" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE3273.F1359100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Susan the Avon Angel wrote; I like Avon's 1st and 2nd season haircut. in fact except for the red = lobster suit.... I must have missed the red lobster suit(until very recently, Christmas = in fact, I had loads of first season tapes missing from my collection), = but so that I can judge for myself what episode should I watch? Debra ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE3273.F1359100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Susan the Avon Angel = wrote;</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I like Avon's 1st and 2nd season = haircut. in=20 fact except for the red lobster suit....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I must have missed the red lobster = suit(until=20 very recently, Christmas in fact, I had loads of first season tapes = missing from=20 my collection), but so that I can judge for myself what episode should I = watch?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Debra</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE3273.F1359100-- -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #319 **************************************