From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #277 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume98/277 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 277 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] JtVS, religion [B7L] Blake's 7 and The Bill [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #276 Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #276 [B7L] Blake's 7 and The Bill (again) [B7L] Merlin Re: [B7L] religion in the B7 universe [B7L] Merlin Re: [B7L] religion in the B7 universe Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #276 Re: [B7L] Merlin Re: [B7L] religion in the B7 universe [B7L] Redemption [B7L] Horizon Letterzine [B7L] colonization Re: [B7L] Religion in the B7 universe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:45:39 EST From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] JtVS, religion Message-ID: <65339063.363e2803@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-11-01 23:25:54 EST, you write: << In a message dated 98-11-01 01:03:03 EST, Sarah wrote: << In B7, there is the cult on Cygnus Alpha, of course. I can't really see the Federation getting into religion per se, but I can certainly see a personality cult developing-- with strong official encouragement-- around some charismatic leader like Servalan. Then, perhaps, such a person might be de facto deified after death? >> It seemed like Servalan was in the process of trying to set up just such a cult in the last half of the third season. She was certainly trying to project a larger-than life persona. Calle, I'm sorry if I offended you in my last post; it wasn't my intention. :-) I was trying to point out that belief systems can be very difficult to eradicate completely and I worded it badly. As for killing trees for a few days of decoration being wasteful, I agree. That's one of the reasons my tree is artificial :-) We did have a sapling in a pot one year that was later planted in the yard. I like Deborah's idea about the mahdi and the jihad, although I think it would work well using any fundamentalist belief system. Tiger M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 14:19:14 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Blake's 7 and The Bill Message-ID: <19981102221915.26945.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Andrew (I think, I cut the name off when I was cutting and pasting) said: >I can't think of another regular character in "The Bill" who's also >been in B7, but I'm sure there have been many appearances by B7 >actors in "The Bill" simply because they've been on so long, produce >so many episodes, and go through so many guest characters each >year. To my knowledge (when the episode in question is shown in Australia, of course <smile>), that will make two episodes for Stephen Greif, the first being an episode where he played a corrupt lawyer. Jan Chappell has been on twice, the first time as a mugging victim (blink and you miss it...), and the second as the owner of a florist's with an embezzling husband, if only she knew. Sally Knyvette appeared as the wife of a man who committed suicide after she left him for his best friend (at least, I think that's who it was, it might equally have been a business rival now that I'm racking my brains to remember the details). I have the impression from somewhere (Attwood, perhaps? Don't know.) that Brian Croucher was in an episode, but I suspect that one dates from a time when I wouldn't have had a clue who Travis was, let alone Blake, Jenna, Gan, or even Cally. Pity those of us who came onboard during the fourth series...<smile> all that lost time we've had to make up. Judith Rolls said: >I was talking to Diane Gies on the telephone and happened to >mention this thread. Diane confirms that Graham Cole was indeed a >Federation trooper. One of the troopers who shot down Vila, Tarrant >et al in "Blake". Just thought you'd like to know. Thanks, Judith, for that information. I'll have to remember that, so I can tell my brother when he comes off the oil rig. Mind you, it might mean that he wears out my copy of the video trying to work out which one is the actor in question. Anyone know, to spare my poor tape? No, foolish question, really. <smile> You're not supposed to be able to tell Federation troopers in full regalia apart from one another, are you? Where's the point in being fearsome and faceless if there's a way to distinguish between them? <smile> Regards Joanne Discover your inner child - it's probably freaked out, needs to go pee and wants to know if you're nearly there yet. --Kaz Cooke, The Little Book of Stress. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 14:59:27 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #276 Message-ID: <19981102225928.10630.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >There's no denying, however, that supernaturalism is hard to get rid >of in a population, though some individuals either manage to escape >from it or had no need of it in the first place. >- Lisa <thinking aloud> Well, I don't see the harm in acknowledging that there is a power higher than one's self. Doesn't really matter whether you refer to it as God/Allah/Jehovah, or Gaia, or logic and reason, or mathematics, or whatever it is that you feel makes the universe continue to be, regardless of how you think it was created in the first place, and how you think it is going to end. There are so many things we have to take on faith anyway - as a *personal* example, I've never seen a virus (that is, with my own two eyes looking through a microscope), or been high enough in the air to see the curvature of the earth (I've not made many plane trips, by the way, and it always seemed to be cloudy whenever I did), but I believe the former exist and that the latter is spherical. <grin> Either that, or believe that it's a disc and an enormous turtle carries it around the universe. I hope that I've managed not to offend either the devout or the hard-core science mob, let alone anyone in between, because we need all in the world. Why else have diversity? I'm sure, to get things back to the program, that Blake would approve of diversity. He spent a lot of time fighting for it, after all. "Horizon" is a good example. Even those who fought alongside him are good examples. Regards Joanne Science is what you know, philosophy is what you don't know. --Bertrand Russell. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:43:58 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #276 Message-ID: <ea810f6.363e5fde@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-11-02 18:03:31 EST, you write: << as a *personal* example, I've never seen a virus (that is, with my own two eyes looking through a microscope), or been high enough in the air to see the curvature of the earth >> This is the difference between faith and science, methinks. Science(proper science anyways) may not know the answers but keeps trying. And allows, even encourages constant testing and demanding of proof. Thus, you can look through the microscope to see the virus, or go in a plane/rocket to see the curvature of the Earth. What you are having faith in above is the honesty of the people who state these things exist, and tell you how they know it. Religion is pretty much by definition unprovable. 5000years+ of religion, 3000years+ of some form of monotheism or another, and no one has yet to scientifically prove or disprove the existence of God. It's all a matter of faith. Where many religions run into problems is when they attempt to mantle their beliefs in the cloak of science, without the resort to proper scientific technique, or by selectively utilizing information. Can't be done, any more than science can prove that God did or did not create the universe. Interesting about Blake believing in diversity. Given that the Federation's precurssor( an early Empire?) believed strongly enough in ethnic diversity to mandate colonization by percentages, one wonders what forces were in play in the society of that time. A balkinization and resegregation perhaps? With the bulk of the world's population in Domes presumably, with little migration between domes encouraged, perhaps the government felt the need to preserve the maximum amount of genetic diversity possible. Or was this the work of the Clone Masters? As one of the "hard core science" mob, no offense taken, just as no offense is meant to those with their own beliefs. It's just that if I were religious, my patron saint would be Saint Thomas. I admire a man who requires proof, especially in the face of extrordinary claims. Deborah Rose ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 19:32:33 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Blake's 7 and The Bill (again) Message-ID: <19981103033234.25532.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Poor Michael Keating. I forgot about him. He's been on The Bill too! How could I forget all about him? (Unfortunately, all too easily it seems, poor man <watery smile>) His character was a real estate agent, who employed a woman who was using the properties for sale or rent as a hideaway for a criminal she was protecting. He was more recognisable in that than he was in "Between The Lines". Being interviewed by the police gives you more to say, presumably. My terrible memory... Regards Joanne "Ah, don't leave me here, at least leave me a torch. I don't like the dark. I like to see what I'm scared of." --Vila, "The Keeper". ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:31:19 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: [B7L] Merlin Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1102183119-84fRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII A general reminder that Merlin: the Magic Begins is being broadcast in various parts of the USA this week and next week. The only person I know who's actually managed to see it so far tells me that Gareth gets plenty of time on screen, though the wicked magician's references to 'Blaze and his rabble' kept causing him to laugh. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:49:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Una McCormack <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk> To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] religion in the B7 universe Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.981103110003.10183B-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Just some reponses to this thread, sorry about being slow about the whole thing, blah blah, real life, blah blah, very busy, blah blah, round up the usual excuses... ;) Tiger M said: >...your thoughts on the Catholic Church. I would imagine that at the >point of the series, the Pope would probably not be on Earth. I also >think that there might be quite a few Catholics (along with people of >other religions) involved in the Resistance. Perhaps the Jesuits >secretly send missionaries to Earth? It would make a good story. >Perhaps we could collaborate. I fear I would make a very poor collaborator at the moment, but I'd love to carry on bouncing around ideas, and read through anything you write. Have you read Dan Simmons' 'Hyperion' books? They have a lot to say about the Jesuits, and the survival of religion into a distant future. It would be fascinating to put the passion of a missionary against the passion of a character like Blake. Blake's zeal would, I think, be founded on a humanistic approach to life, one that is essentially agnostic. What would be the intellectual clashes between him and someone for whom the central point would be the existence of evil and who would admit elements of supra-naturality into the equation? A person of *extreme* religious zeal would be capable of acts of extreme brutality which I think Blake would be appalled by and which Avon, whilst despising the rationale behind them, would secretly admire for the single-mindedness and relentlessness behind them, which brooked no opposition. Calle pointed out, about assimilation of religions: >This is another "may or may not be true". That elements of older >practices were incorporated into christianity is undoubted, but it's a >long step from that to saying that entire religions were assimilated. Indeed. I guess a fairer way of putting it would be that the assimilation of *aspects* of older practices seems to have been an extremely successful strategy. Alison said: >FWIW I think that the decisive factor is technological superiority. This >applied in the middle ages, and it applies now. You have to convert to >get access to education, government jobs, contacts. The missionaries have >access to luxuries, better medicine. The same story every time. I think >'Horizon' presents this dynamic very clearly. I try hard not always to explain historical change in terms of technology, but it's such a powerful, persuasive, and bloody good way of characterizing most change that I find it difficult not to! In the case of the eradication of native cultures I'd also argue that the spread of disease is also important in this situation, i.e. the fact that people simply weren't immune to the diseases that were going round (tho' your point about access to medicine is noted). I'm just reading a book about Chile, and the author quotes the following: 'The Brazilian anthropologist Darcey Ribeiro estimates that more than half the aboriginal population of America, Australia, and Oceania died from the contamination of first contact with white men.' The dynamic presented in 'Horizon' (to wrench this back on topic!!) reminds me more of the type of imperialism practised in India than in America/Australia/Oceania, i.e. the 'assimilation' strategy and persuading strategically key rulers to 'buy into' your culture rather than just wholesale slaughter (altho' this is probably going on as well). I'm not sure about your point about the Middle Ages with regards to, for example, religious suppression in the Tudor period in England, in which the struggle is very much to do with wrestling political control *at the top*. I recently saw 'Elizabeth', and I think this characterized this quite well: the battles over religion in England in the 1500s seem to me to be almost *exclusively* about who will *rule* England. Which political camp will win control? And, of course, these battles are refought in the 1680s (tho' with slightly less ferocity and fewer martyrdoms!), and Protestant rule is reaffirmed (and, indeed, a Catholic cannot be monarch of the United Kingdom to this very day). Edith said: >>If there is a religion in B7, I would say the belief in superior >>technology and firepower overrides all else- not freedom of spirit nor >>solace of the soul but the reality of survival, and the immediacy of >>placating desires. And Alison responded: >This is exactly what I think when I am most cynical. Then again I >sometimes feel that it is the yearning of the soul that breaks religion >apart, because it can not be tamed. Also, we've made no mention of personal spirituality in all this. I think that in a society in which individual survival and dependence on technological superiority are paramount, there may be little scope for organized religion. But that doesn't prevent the possibility of personal adherence to some sort of creed which may not be all that formalized. I'm reminded of Dr Franklin in Babylon 5, who has a very personal faith which suffuses his daily life, but who's pretty silent about it on the whole. Hmm, not made that point terribly well. I guess what I'm trying to say that while popping along to Mass every Sunday might be a bit tricky in the B7 universe, there's nothing to prevent the existence of an informal but semi-codified faith which emphasizes individual spirituality and, I think, this could be a very powerful way in which people could find meaning. Alison also made the excellent point: >It simply defies belief that everyone in a society should suddenly change >their metaphysics within a generation. And went on: >I wonder why some cultures prove more tenacious than others? I wonder why >some religions go underground, while some take on the clothing of the new >religion, and some survive defiantly? Oddly, it seems that explicit persecution helps, as it seems to bring out that most human attribute, bloody-minded persistence! Which is part of the reason why I think the Catholic church would still be around. Also (and this ties in to what I was saying about the political battles in Tudor England), it would want *very* much to regain the political pre-eminence that it has traditionally enjoyed. This brings to mind that Sarah pointed out that 'Faith of our Fathers' was sung in her Presbyterian childhood, and she had understood it to be related to persecution of the Huguenots. Nothing like telling people that they can't do something to make them want to do it!! Sarah also said: >I can't really see the Federation getting into religion per se, but I can >certainly see a personality cult developing-- with strong official >encouragement-- around some charismatic leader like Servalan. Then, >perhaps, such a person might be de facto deified after death? Rather like the propaganda and personality cult of Elizabeth as the Virgin Queen. And deifying Roman emperors was a popular activity, and not only posthumously! I could very much see a brilliant personality cult being developed around someone like Servalan - altho' modern personality cults need to take account of vastly increased public scrutiny. (It was easier to promulgate a myth of majesty around monarchs when you couldn't see them on TV every day!) Iain: >(spent his formative years at a Jesuit school. Some people think it >shows.) That would be the large, fiery 'J' branded onto your forehead. Gosh, this is a very long post. As you can see, I get *tons* of work done at the office!! Una -------------------------------------------------------------------------- These days, accusing women of inadequacy is sexism, accusing men of inadequacy is sociology. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064 Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701 Cambridge CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:08:46 EST From: Mac4781@aol.com To: space-city@world.std.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Merlin Message-ID: <6d318767.363ef24e@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For other frustrated fans who are trying to find when Merlin might be broadcast, a friend told me about the following site (TV Quest) that will search for when programs will air in individual viewing areas (you put in your zip code, then cable/tv provider, etc.): http://www.tvquest.com/cgi-bin/gate2?t~tvquest/aolstartup.html I just checked for Merlin in my area, and turned up nothing through November 15. It does seem to have started to air. Judith reported hearing from someone who saw it. And I got a call from a friend last night. Another friend had told her that someone had seen it. (Third-hand report but it sounded reliable.) If anyone does get it, would you please let us know what broadcaster carried it (NBC, Fox, etc.) and what time it aired in your area? That might give the rest of us a clue about where to concentrate a search. Thanks. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:09:46 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] religion in the B7 universe Message-ID: <498f30f1.363f009a@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-11-03 06:36:03 EST, you write: << Avon, whilst despising the rationale behind them, would secretly admire for the single-mindedness and relentlessness behind them, which brooked no opposition. >> I can't see Avon admiring any action not based on a case of logical self- interest. A bloodthirsty action based on the belief of superstitious nonsense(from his viewpoint) would do nothing but arouse his distain, and merely make him wary of the person/group carrying out the action. I do agree Blake would be horrified;one wonders how much he realizes he eventually became such an entity. Excellent thread; enjoying reading all the posts. D. Rose ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:24:32 +1000 From: "Taina Nieminen" <taina@netspace.net.au> To: "B7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #276 Message-ID: <008b01be0735$ae4f8260$6f6f6f6f@tenzil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >There are so many things we have to take on faith anyway - as a >*personal* example, I've never seen a virus (that is, with my own two >eyes looking through a microscope), or been high enough in the air to >see the curvature of the earth (I've not made many plane trips, by the >way, and it always seemed to be cloudy whenever I did), but I believe >the former exist and that the latter is spherical. <grin> Either that, >or believe that it's a disc and an enormous turtle carries it around the >universe. Actually, whenever you look out over the ocean and see the horizon, you're seeing the curvature of the earth. Though it could be a hemisphere on the back of a turtle, I guess. But anyway... >I'm sure, to get things back to >the program, that Blake would approve of diversity. He spent a lot of >time fighting for it, after all. "Horizon" is a good example. Even those >who fought alongside him are good examples. I don't think Blake would have approved of all kinds of diversity. I see him as fighting primarily for individual freedoms, and the value placed on these can vary a lot from culture to culture. How would he respond to a society that welcomed and co-operated with Federation rule, because they valued order and authority well above individual rights? I think he would simply not understand how people could voluntarily believe that, and assume that they must be brainwashed. Any thoughts? Taina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:47:45 -0500 From: Ann Reckner <areckner@ivyproductions.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Merlin Message-ID: <363F1791.BDD6EF34@ivyproductions.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For fans in the Boston, Massachusetts area: a search on TV Quest revealed that "Merlin: The Magic Begins" will be broadcast on WNDS, channel 50, on November 11 at 8:00 p.m. I don't immediately recognize this station. I'll have to check tonight if it's one I actually receive. Ann Reckner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:53:17 -0000 From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] religion in the B7 universe Message-Id: <E0zaikV-0007m5-00@post.mail.demon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to take up just one of the excellent points raised by Una and others which is the impact of disease on the way that civilisations conquer and colonise. There have been a few academic studies of this haven't there? Not that I'm an expert I just read the popularisations. For example it is noticeable that in Africa most states are now ruled by 'native Africans', but this is not the case in North or South America for 'native Americans'. Europeans coming into Africa were confronted by new diseases that they had little resistance to. On the other hand Europeans coming into the Americas were on balance the bringers of disease, the native populations having little resistance. And so, hundreds of years later, we see different patterns of colonisation and independence. It's interesting in its own light - but it is also relevant to B7. In fact the concept is mentioned explicitly isn't it? Blake's reference to smallpox blankets in 'Killer' (I think he gets the British aristocrat wrong - if Neil can manage to post yet he can fill in the details 'cos it's in his encyclopedia). And biological warfare comes up over and over again in different guises. I suppose the difference is that in the B7 universe the killing is even more deliberate than it was in ours. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:29:32 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> cc: Space City <Space-city@world.std.com> Subject: [B7L] Redemption Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1103172932-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Just a general note about hotel rooms for Redemption. We have a block booking with the hotel that holds until the end of November. Anyone returning the hotel form before then will be guaranteed a room. That should include everyone wanting a single room. After that date, we have to guess how many rooms they should continue to hold for us and the remainder are made available to the general public. If we guess wrong, then you might not get a space in the convention hotel. (If we guess too high, the convention has to pay for unused rooms, so it's in our interests to guess low.) Judith PS. We've around 150 members now, so things are coming along nicely. I can still use a couple more volunteers to host discussion sessions, so drop me a line if you're interested. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:39:06 -0500 (EST) From: Sondra Sweigman <sweigman@world.std.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Horizon Letterzine Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.95.981103153540.19068B-100000@world.std.com> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Diane Gies wishes to convey the following information to all Horizon Letterzine subscribers on this list regarding the long-overdue issue for which we've all been waiting: I've just spoken to Debbie Marshall, except that the reason for the delay is that she ISN'T Debbie Marshall any more, she just got married a few weeks ago and - as I'm sure you can appreciate - planning a wedding and honeymoon can take up rather a lot of time. She hadn't wanted a fuss about the wedding, hence didn't tell anyone, and I'm sure under the circumstances all you Letterzine subscribers will forgive her. I'm delighted to report that a) the wedding went well and hopefully Debbie and Pete will live happily ever after and b) she has the Letterzine ready to be posted tomorrow and apologises for the delay. Thanks Diane-- See the Horizon Club website at http://www.horizon.org.uk See information on Music of Life charity gala at http://musicoflife.future.easyspace.com/charitygala.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:29:42 EST From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] colonization Message-ID: <17164866.363f75c6@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-11-03 10:58:16 EST, Alison wrote: << Blake's reference to smallpox blankets in 'Killer' (I think he gets the British aristocrat wrong - if Neil can manage to post yet he can fill in the details 'cos it's in his encyclopedia). And biological warfare comes up over and over again in different guises. I suppose the difference is that in the B7 universe the killing is even more deliberate than it was in ours. >> I could see the African situation arising as well in the B7 universe. There may well be planets that are under Federation control but the natives have developed diseases to which earthers have no resistance. The British consulate in Lagos was once referred to as a corrugated iron coffin containing one dead consul a year. Tiger M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:05:41 EST From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Religion in the B7 universe Message-ID: <282f1fa0.363f29d5@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Rob wrote: << Beliefs can be stamped out. I don't like that any more than the next man, but it happens, and it could quite conceivably happen in the B7 universe. >> This is, of course, true. However, the Church is more than just a collection of human beliefs. Rather, it is the vessel that God has created to save humanity and make each of us truly human and able to share His love. If the B7 universe were real, being the future of our own universe, God, and of necessity, His Church, would be a fundamental part of it. Gail G. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #277 **************************************