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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 27
Today's Topics:
[B7L] The long way back - Melody Clark
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #26
Re: [B7L] Harvest of Kairos, Average B7 Age, Clinton
Re: [B7L] : Harvest of kairos, Average B7age ,etc
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha
Re: [B7L] B5 & B7
Re: [B7L] B5 & B7
[B7L] Oh NO, it's politics
Re[2]: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2
Re: [B7L]
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Re: [B7L] B5 & B7
Re: [B7L] Harvest of Kairos, Average B7 Age, Clinton
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Re: [B7L] B5 & B7
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:20:22 +1000
From: Pat Fenech <P.Fenech@library.usyd.edu.au>
To: space-city@world.std.com
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] The long way back - Melody Clark
Message-Id: <199801270121.CAA04353@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A view of "The long way back" -a slash zine- by Melody Clark.
__________________________________________________
Twenty years on... hardly seems likely, or possible, but here we are
nonetheless all those years later about to celebrate the Twentieth
Anniversary of the original screening of 'Blakes 7' and as we are it does
tend to urge the mind to consider just what it is about the series that is
so enduringly appealing. Well, I find my mind attempting such - but with
very little success. Asked just what it is about this television programme
that sets it apart from so many others I have liked, which endears it to me
as no other, I find no nice neat summary presents itself in reply. Pressed,
my brain shrugs and mutters 'who knows?'
Not prepared to put up with this I insist the brain make a bit more of an
effort! Think about it, I urge. So think I have - of the low budget, which
shows, of the superficially not terribly remarkable storyline of rebellion
against repressive government, conducted by a dysfunctional group of
clashing personalities; hardly the stuff from which twenty years of dreaming
would follow, and yet... it has. But though I have loved it for those twenty
years, even now I cannot explain why in any systematic way. All I can say is
that there is just something about it, some serendipitous combination of
elements, which created some sort of magic, elements which I cannot define
no matter how much I think about it, but which must be there.
What has all this to do with 'The long way back' ? Well, it occurs that
perhaps it may have been musings along lines such as this which produced the
basic concept upon which the whole story - of which 'The long way back' is
the second part - is constructed. For it seems to me anyway that in a way
the story is based upon a recognition of the fortuitousness of the gathering
of just exactly the right elements which when put together would perfectly
gel to transform what might have been wholly unremarkable into a phenomenon
of enduring worth.
To explain just why such a thought occurs would be to spoil the story, but
if you find it intriguing then read the stories - smile - for they are worth
the reading and perhaps after you have read both - and if you have denied
yourself the pleasure of reading 'The last best hope , forbear denial at
once and read it, as you must to fully appreciate its equally exceptional
continuation - then perhaps you too may find your mind wondering as mine has
about the chances of just the right elements being collected together, at
just the right moment, with just the right people, seeming to be altogether
too much of a coincidence to be one. As perhaps Melody's did... and
wondering she conceived within the realms of her prodigious imagination an
explanation which became these two halves of a wholly wonderful story.
I am always somewhat reluctant to write reviews I have to confess. I doubt
my tastes in 'Blakes 7' stories are in any way typical. So for the most
part I feel somewhat reticent to inflict them upon you all. But I so much
admire Melody Clark s writing that for no other reason really than to
acknowledge this, and to share my enthusiasm for a story which I have come
to love, I have written what is perhaps not so much a review as my
appreciation of 'The long way back'.
'The long way back' takes up the story almost immediately after the
conclusion of 'The last best hope' . Basically the first story postulates
that years after Gauda Prime - which they all managed to survive and put
behind them to defeat the Federation - Blake' s government, or more
specifically Blake' s ethos and style of government has fallen foul of the
conservative elements left over from Federation days. Blake has had to
choose between the welfare of his crew and his government, has chosen his
crew and consequently has had to escape from Earth into purposeless exile,
all his achievements shattered. During the unfolding of the events which
have led to their flight from Earth Blake and Avon have discovered hints
that their association may have been of a far longer duration than they had
thought and more to provide some sense of purpose than anything else Avon
decides to follow up these hints by exploring his past. This takes them to a
forsaken planet called Gondoran where once there was a Federation project
called Standard Increase, and where once a small boy called Avon was being
groomed, amongst others, to become the human equivalent and model for a
computer which would have the capability of working as a human brain does.
This is the point from which Melody takes up the story and begins to weave a
continuation from various seemingly divergent, but ultimately closely linked
elements - some taken from the past - the past Blake and Avon had shared but
lost - some from the present - the desperate fight they must wage against a
religious fanatic conducting a holy war. Eventually the elements begin to
converge, past and present combine to create a backdrop against which the
climax of the story is played out - a battle, symbolic, magical, but also
frighteningly real, which takes place within the characters, between the
characters, and ultimately, finally concludes within the eye of infinity; a
battle as old as humanity, and as new as squadrons of DSVs pitted against
Blake s seven.
It is a wonderful story which I cannot say anything much about without
spoiling it. So instead I will enthuse about the elements employed to create
it... elements such as the writing which is *special*.
Everywhere the writing entrances me with its spell binding imaginativeness
and the skill with which the imagination is translated into word, words
which are used to challenge the intellect to think... of such things as the
concept of self About how the sense of self might deal with the loss of
definition through something like mind-wiping. 'What time deprived the
intellect of,' Melody suggests memorably, 'the soul kept track of...' 'the
details of memory were preserved in a solution of feelings.' while at the
same time suggesting a possible explanation to one of the talking points
about the series - here a plausible, and beautiful, reason why Blake so
readily took to rebellion again, despite what had been done to his mind.
They are also used to encourage the imagination to conjure; to conceive of
what it might be like to imagine a 'technicolour nightmare by Salvador Dali'
and make it a reality; to create a planetscape - Gondoran, a planet burnt
beneath a Titan sun. One of the natural elements produced is described thus,
'the white foliage of Gondoran ... called Virgin Flora, but it was not the
colour of innocence. It was the whiteness of the forsaken of that left by
life.' An evocative description, but, it seems to me to be more than that,
for with the physical representation Melody is creating an analogy for the
events which have occurred on the planet and for those which will occur.
Words which examine and encourage the reader to consider some of the
questions of existence common to any time or state; dilemmas such as the
worst of results produced by the best of intentions; or idealism untempered
by consideration for the individual effect of measures taken for the greater
good producing tyranny far more harmful than any it seeks to combat. Also
examined are questions such as the nature of love and the dichotomy all
human beings are with their variable mixtures of good and bad and along the
way many an insightful comment upon society is to be found:
Leusip: You have chosen to care for others. That doesn t seem
so very hard(tough).
Dayna: 'Soft people do not necessarily care for each other.
They are just infinitely polite to each other. They nod in passing ...
They ask each other, 'How are you? when no-one really cares.'
Or, 'Vision can be a sort of blindness... I was young and the young are
enamored of panacea.'
But for all their broader applicability they are not presented as
meaningless generalities but explanations, comments, motivations which are
completely relevant to this story and insightful within the context of
'Blakes 7 .
And everywhere the words are used skillfully to construct a multi-layered
story, to suggest meanings within meanings, symbolic and suggestive of one
of the main themes of the story - paradox. Everywhere elements reflect other
elements - the special capabilities of Avon and Blake mirroring the two
computer systems which are a central element of the plot. Another example is
Gondoran which is described as having a dark side and a light side. The
light side being where Standard Increase was established, where the man that
Avon was to become, with all his darkness of spirit, was largely created.
The dark side, ruined by humanity made environmental disaster became the
realm of an illusion maker and will be where Tarrant is confronted with the
dark side of his nature and yet it will also become the place from which the
battalions of light will form up to do battle with those of the dark
unleashed from the light side. It is intricate, it is clever, it is
fascinating and wholly engrossing and enjoyable to read.
And all of this is woven unobtrusively in and about a story which is
constructed from a myriad of interesting and diverse elements, so myriad and
diverse I can only marvel at the intelligence, the breadth of the
imagination and the skill of the pen which combined to set them down in
believable detail and slotted them seamlessly into the usually fairly
restrictive framework of a story based within the familiar parameters of
'Blakes 7' . Elements as diverse as how evil might recruit its generals and
battalions; what the experience might have been like for those who attempted
covert dissension within Federation society; what effect certain types of
directed education might have upon a developing spirit; the final
examination for an apprentice master magician; and the fascinatingly
realised examination of the concept of the power of minds in rapport and
what might be achieved by such powerful harmony.
And lest you imagine that all of this may detract or distract or neglect
'Blakes 7' be assured it does not. All of it is imagined from within the
context we are so familiar with and is essentially an examination of the
most complex and interesting of all the aspects of the series, well for me,
the relationship between Blake and Avon. It builds upon what we know from
the series, to create their pasts, a past they shared then lost. The reason
it is lost being the lynchpin of the entire story both past and present.
Not only is the detail of the series used with memorable imaginativeness but
Melody also recreates most of the characters in loving detail within scenes
which skillfully interplay thought and word and deed to provide fresh
insights and a deeper understanding of them, well so I thought, and paint
wonderfully detailed and true- to-themselves portraits of them all in all
their moods and manners.
If you were ambivalent about Tarrant before reading this story, you may find
that you have more sympathy for him when you have read the way Melody has
constructed some moments in his past and present. If you have ever wondered
about Soolin s past, you will find it here imagined in a most thought
provoking way as she smiles her 'corrosive smile ; if you ever wondered
where Vila learnt his magic tricks and what they might suggest about the
sharp mind he likes to hide behind the 'fool that I am facade then read
on... and if you find Blake and Avon fascinating and their relationship
pivotal then you will find much to think upon, suggested by such moments as;
'Blake: 'You will follow me down? He thought Avon
wasn t going to reply, but then just as Blake crossed the threshold
a soft sentence followed after him. 'Oh, Blake, don t I always,'
it said, as the door slipped closed between them.'
Or all that is implied by a remark of Dayna s about them, 'They are well
when they are together. As well as finding their every gesture and their
essence recaptured in descriptions such as,
'He sensed the boy's presence... It was a warm transfusion
in the cold, spare room' and
'Feeling the weight of Roj s steady gaze, the moist brown eyes
that gave report on every emotion passing through his heart Leusip
could not bear to look upon them, but he could feel their conviction
given from Blake s heart, just as the other boy... could convey
with one stolid glance the indictment of his mind.'
Or Avon s annoyance at the sound of Blake s voice, 'charged as usual with
reasonless urgency', and Blake s inward description of Avon smiling, 'A
smile of pain, and Avon smile.'
Everywhere the writing is captivating, powerful, memorable, creating moments
of unforgettable vividness which engulf you in their intensity, such as Avon
s thoughts as he faces death; or the moment when a gesture of Blake s
suggests quite unequivocally to Avon that Blake loves him, not as just
another of the amorphous generality of the universe, but specifically and
passionately, or a parting so sad I will never forget it.
To suggest just how strikingly interesting and varied and intelligent the
writing to be found in 'The long way back' is you have but to begin it. The
first few pages contain an exploration of a profound paradox; the
description of the beginnings of disillusionment in a disciple for his
teacher; a charming portrait of Blake; an examination of the way evil
entices malleable servants; the dilemma of good intentions confronted with
the unexpected results of a single-minded pursuit of ideals and the
beginnings of the exploration of Melody s conception of what made Avon the
way he was - in eight pages of beautiful writing which flows through the
establishing of themes so effortlessly it perhaps suggests without intending
to do so just how effortlessly these elements will integrate as the story
unfolds and also suggests forcibly just how good a story this is and how
well it is written.
The story as it unfolds is an adventure on an epic scale. The battle of good
against evil conducted upon a canvas of marvelous invention- from a Mars
orbiting satellite, to an ancient control room among almost sentient
machinery, in the minds of Blake and Avon and then through their minds as
they, representing intuition and logic, attempt to join their minds to
achieve an impossibility. It is conducted in caves with purple rivers, in
space against squadrons of Liberators and in the hearts of them all. And
woven through it all is a love story of great power and poignancy.
As I said originally this is not so much a review as just my appreciation of
this story. I know that there will be those who like 'Blakes 7' fanfiction
who will not like this story - for many reasons. But, for myself I think
'The last best hope' and 'The long way back' together are the best 'Blakes
7' story I have ever read. Firmly and lovingly based upon the original they
tell the same story in a completely new way, tell the story as it might have
been, as I would like to imagine it was. And they tell this story that I
like so very much in a way which stimulates my mind and completely engages
my emotions, in writing I admire for its intelligence, its creativity and
its beauty.
But also now in this year of thinking about why I love 'Blakes 7' they also
perhaps suggest an insight into that mystery, at least for me. For they
suggest most appealingly that for all the seeming randomness of events, the
seeming uncaring face the universe generally presents, that perhaps there
might be some force keeping a general eye upon things and sometimes
intervening to set things that are completely wrong at least back on the
right track, or if you like, that there is a place for hope despite
everything. And perhaps that is what I like about 'Blakes 7' ? Despite the
end, despite all, the mere idea of these people fighting the seemingly
hopeless fight is ultimately hopeful. Though this is not a view I expect
many fans to share -smile - just as I suspect that some, perhaps many, will
not feel as I do about 'The long way back' . But for what it's worth I love
it, love them both. It is a wonderful story, wonderfully written, one that I
am glad to have had the opportunity to read. At one point in the story Vila
recalls an admonition from his childhood which said, 'May your courage be as
vast as your imagination.' Having now read these two stories I cannot help
but think that Melody s courage, and skill, was more than a match for her
imagination - smile -
Visually the zine is pleasingly presented, as Judith Proctor' s always are.
It is nicely laid out and the type-face is clear and large enough for me to
read without difficulty, always a decided plus. It has a beautiful cover, a
thoroughly charming portrait of Blake and Avon set into a skillful composite
of the main elements of the story.
The interior art by Val Westall everywhere provides visual enhancement to
key moments in the story. I particularly liked the illustration which
accompanies one of the scenes which recalls the shared past of Blake and
Avon, a moment of extreme poignancy which Val has caught in the look in
Avon' s eyes. The final illustration also charms me very much because I was
thoroughly charmed by the conclusion of the story which it represents, but
about which I am not going to say one more word in case you feel inclined to
read and see what I mean for yourself.
It is available from Judith and is worth every credit. Its a lovely zine.
They both are and as a reasonably new to zine buying fan I can only thank
Judith for her commendable efforts to reprint some of the classic 'Blakes 7'
stories which otherwise might have been lost forever to the realms of myth
and to my eyes -smile -
Pat Fenech
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:07:12 EST
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #26
Message-ID: <19980126.190417.8951.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
E van Looy wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-01-24 20:39:05 EST, DCsquared wrote:
>
> << Perhaps he was just alluding to the fact that Clinton is "under
attack"
> from
> all sides, and is in essence "fighting for his life". >>
>
> Ooh, Clinton standing in the middle of the Oval Office bathed in
flashing red
> lights surrounded by FBI agents. He raises his gun, smiles and steps
forward
> to straddle the body of...hmm, maybe we should not go there.
>
> Elise "I'm not signing this one!"
No! No! No! Cut! Cut!
it`s: straddles body, raises gun, then smiles! See? it says so in the
script!
Jackie (the frustrated director)
- ----------------------------
And then Jackie yells:
"Reshoot! Your pants are unzipped!"
Penny
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:11:38 EST
From: E van Looy <EvanLooy@aol.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Harvest of Kairos, Average B7 Age, Clinton
Message-ID: <ae1b13b1.34cd5070@aol.com>
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In a message dated 98-01-26 17:55:11 EST, you write:
<< * Avon never brags about how he could kill people with one hand tied
behind his back - too right I demand chapter and verse. That isn't to
say that Avon isn't good at exuding menace; but he does that so that he
*won't* have to kill people. >>
The impression was first very strongly given in Horizon, where he single
handedly rescues the whole crew like Rambo going after POW's. But now that I
think about it, I'm not sure how high the body count really was. He shot a few
cameras. And Blake almost. And I'm pretty sure he shot a Federation guard--I'd
have to see the tape again but I'm afraid it's my bedtime.
Anybody have a tally of how many people Avon actually killed (up close and
personal, not by firing from the Liberator) as opposed to Blake or Jenna or
the rest of the crew?
Elise
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:16:45 EST
From: E van Looy <EvanLooy@aol.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] : Harvest of kairos, Average B7age ,etc
Message-ID: <cc90f734.34cd51b7@aol.com>
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In a message dated 98-01-26 12:59:43 EST, you write:
<< eeeerrrm?!? would you like to duck and run now? while you are still in
one piece? before the Avonites getcha?
Using the term "nerd" to describe "Avon" will get exactly 60 seconds head
start. GO!!
Jackie (frantically lacing up trainers) >>
Hey, what can I say? Some of my best friends are nerds. Really!
But Patti wrote
<< Now, as for Avon being a nerd -- no, no, don't run, that's
my slide rule, not my gun! Hey, I love Avon as much as next
addict, but I can't deny what he was. The kick for me is in
watching him transform himself from a nerd into a flamboyant
space pirate with delusions of grandeur, while all the while
underneath is that poor, scared nerd who just wants to be safe.>>
I guess that put my feelings into words better than I could have. Thanks!
Elise
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:40:30 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2
Message-ID: <34CD653E.70F9@geocities.com>
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Julia Jones wrote:
>It's the wonky timeline in the episode
> that really has me fascinated, and that's not just the question of what
> B, J and A where doing for four months.
"The Missing Four Months"
X-Files Theory #1
1. The space battle that left the Liberator listing tore a hole in the
fabric of time, which slowly oozed open into this space; so both the
London and the Liberator reached Cygnus Alpha earlier than expected.
About 4 days seem to have passed, for the prisoners are still in a
holding cell. Surely if planting season had rolled around, they would be
out weeding the rocks. And after 4 months, Avon & Jenna would have
killed one another, squabbling over the contents of the treasure room.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:34:51 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2
Message-ID: <34CD63EB.57DA@geocities.com>
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NWOutsider (Sue) wrote:
> I love Brian's over-
> the-topness. Although there are moments when he makes me wince in
> "Cygnus Alpha," the same is true of several others. However, none of
> them is as bad as, say, Governor LeGrand is "Voice from the Past."
I rather liked LeGrand Dame. She and Blake were a hoot trying to
out-behumble one another:
"To lead them - You.
No, you."
But it was Travis, playing Shevan the Rebel (aka The Mummy) who was
totally OTT.
When it comes to terrible acting, that episode took top honors on all
fronts. Blake trying to be devious at the start, Blake trying to sound
sleezy about Avon and Cally. And that full screen view of Servalan doing
a floor to ceiling gloat.
"Animals" may take top honors for terrible plot, but "Voices" wins for
over acting.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:36:03 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Message-ID: <34CD7243.78E0@geocities.com>
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E van Looy wrote:
> I used to play a lot of checkers with my grandfather when I was young, but our
> stones were white and black. Or should the squares have been black and red?
Most checkers boards have black & red squares with alternating black &
red chips. The object is to sneak up on the opponent unseen and leap
over his/her head, thereby killing as many of the opponent's chips as
possible. One wins by attrition. It lacks the delicate strategy of chess
and is more about crass bludgeoning. Hence the strategic similie to the
story (a strategy worthy or Carnell - or even Servalan - is, alas,
beyond me).
Perhaps I've seen the other colored boards and mistook them for Chess
sets?
But then, my family was so poor we could only afford two colors.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:03:46 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Message-ID: <34CD78C2.3032@geocities.com>
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NWOutsider wrote:
>> re: (Checkers - the perfect
>> adversarial pair: Jenna in red, Avon in black).
> <snip>
> when I read Checkers my impression was "here's someone who really
> despises Jenna."
Not at all. I gave her gobs of ink - nearly half the book! (Tarrant, by
contrast, got only a few lines.) I spent a great many hours with Jenna
while penning that tale. (I can take Tarrant's company for only so
long.) She's quite a stout companion. Surely positioning her as a
competent adversary for Avon is the highest honor a Disgustingly
Slavering Avon Fan could bestow on any fanzine adversary? Besides, I let
her live.
> The reason it hit me that way is that Jenna's suffering is more extreme than Avon's,
Perhaps you empathize more naturally with the female. I tried to give
each, equally, what they would most hate. For how else could they
triumph over it most courageously?
Surely others who do stories get totally opposite opinions and reactions
from readers? Some said the portrayal of Avon is too soft; others said
he's too hard. He's too mean to Vila. Or to Jenna. Or he's too put upon
by Jenna.
(naw-- no fan *ever* says the story was too mean to Avon)
well, maybe the one with the spoon .-{
*sigh* he suffers so beautifully.
Disgustingly Slavering Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:41:29 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha
Message-ID: <34CDABC9.AD157F3B@gte.net>
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PATTI McCLELLAN wrote:
>
> The worst thing about Vargas is his lack of decent
> footwear...
Oh good one! Why didn't they just put him boots the same as everyone
else? Or better still boots with stilleto heels.
--
C progamme run. C programme crash. C programmer quit.
Return to COBOL.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:19:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980127101244.6431A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Sam wrote:
> PatP said
> >> Babylon 5 did not learn the lesson and continues to drag on long after the plotline
> >> (the Shadow War) ended. Quitting while I'm ahead.
>
> Some of my friends have wondered if the guy behind Babylon 5 - J Michael Straczynski - might not have been involved in role playing games in his youth. B5 was written with a plot line over several series. Very much like a referee would plan an long term campaign for a fantasy role playing game.
>
> Remarkably well done. Other writers/producers please take note.
>
> Imagine if Blakes 7 had been written in a similar way. What would that have been like?
Pretty much like the show we got, I reckon. In fact, B7 reminds me much
much more of roleplaying than B5 does. The latter is essentially
constructed like an epic novel, with a few interesting structural features
to cope with the realities of TV series production. It's very tightly
plotted. In rolegames, the referee has some kind of plot worked out, but
the players inevitably go off on various tangents, screw up royally, spend
all their time bickering instead of getting on with it, are much more
concerned with themselves than with their mission or duty...
Sound familiar?
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:23:14 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7
Message-ID: <19980127192314.22777@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 09:33:38PM -0000, Sam wrote:
> PatP said
> >> Babylon 5 did not learn the lesson and continues to drag on long after the plotline
> >> (the Shadow War) ended. Quitting while I'm ahead.
>
> Some of my friends have wondered if the guy behind Babylon 5 - J
> Michael Straczynski - might not have been involved in role playing games
> in his youth. B5 was written with a plot line over several series. Very
> much like a referee would plan an long term campaign for a fantasy role
> playing game.
>
> Remarkably well done. Other writers/producers please take note.
>
> Imagine if Blakes 7 had been written in a similar way. What would that
> have been like?
Exactly the same. Blake's 7 came up with story arcs first. So there.
Kathryn Andersen
(also disillusioned with Babylon 5)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Say it with flowers - send a Triffid.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 09:22:13 -0800
From: "Buck, Courtney" <buck#m#_courtney@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Oh NO, it's politics
Message-ID: <n1326229317.33093@SSDGWY.mdc.com>
>Grace Robbins wrote (re: Clinton commment)
>For my opinion, I don't think PD did put much thought into that response
>in the first place. I seemed to get the impression he was imparting some
>light humor.
That was *my* impression the first time I read his response. He was just being
funny. And I laughed because *I* thought it WAS funny. I still think it's
funny.
Courtney
(an AVON fan)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:22:00 -0800
From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" <patti.mcclellan@kyl.com>
To: pussnboots@geocities.com, "blakes7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re[2]: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2
Message-ID: <Megw.4892743@powell.fabrik.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Regarding Voices: I kept waiting for Avon to inquire of
Shevan whether he knew someone had attached a false eyeball
to his bandages.
Patti
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:18:41 -0000
From: "Heather Smith" <Heather.Smith@btinternet.com>
To: "Blake's 7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]
Message-Id: <E0xxF1x-0007VO-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!!
>
> Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool.
> This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email
> addresses. Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect
> anything...you are only limited by your imagination!
Arghhh! More sodding spam! The situation is starting to look decidedly
iffy!
Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith
'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish'
-The fourth Doctor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:44:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0127124449-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Tue 27 Jan, PATTI McCLELLAN wrote:
> Jenna's bond with Zen was always something I wanted to do
> a story about. I just never figured out a decent plot. Except
> I did have this idea that Jenna might have "felt" it when Zen
> died, which might have contributed to her willingness to
> sacrifice herself on GP, if that's where she in fact died.
> Anyhow, if anyone has written this, please let me know, so I
> can read it.
Read 'Unconscious Influences' by Andrew Williams in Star Three.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:36:10 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Message-ID: <19980127223610.14731@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 10:28:14AM -0800, Pat Patera wrote:
> > JENNA: Could you kill someone? Face to face I mean.
> > AVON: I don't know. Could you?
> > JENNA: There's one sure way of finding out.
>
> This has to be my fave exchange from the whole series. I loved the
> moment so, it inspired me to write a 110,000 word zine, the whole
> storyline starting from that one exchange (Checkers - the perfect
> adversarial pair: Jenna in red, Avon in black).
>
> Any other story writers who launched a ship from a single set of lines?
Stories, no. But more than one poem of mine has been launched from such
a set.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:51:11 -0000
From: "Sam" <sam@slade.softnet.co.uk>
To: "Blakes7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7
Message-ID: <01bd2b5c$eb0682e0$d74698c2@swhsfzrw>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Pretty much like the show we got, I reckon. In fact, B7 reminds me much
>much more of roleplaying than B5 does. The latter is essentially
>constructed like an epic novel, with a few interesting structural features
>to cope with the realities of TV series production. It's very tightly
>plotted. In rolegames, the referee has some kind of plot worked out, but
>the players inevitably go off on various tangents, screw up royally, spend
>all their time bickering instead of getting on with it, are much more
>concerned with themselves than with their mission or duty...
>
>Sound familiar?
>
>Iain
I played two long term Advanced Dungeons & Dragons campaigns. The first
lasted 10 years - my time, not the characters time. My Dwarven fighter went
with his friends, followers of Norse Gods, to Ragnorok. And died a glorious
death. That party worked together very well following aims and goal we all
could agree on.
The second campaign, AD&D, similar world and same players was a more
fractious affair. Lasted a few years and by coincidence, the most irritating
character (and player) got his come-upance from my character.
The long term planning by the B5 people must have been difficult to sell but
it has produced a series I very much enjoy and appreciate.
Sadly the time, money and courage to do *quality* series such as B5 and Star
Trek The Next Generation has come too late for Blakes 7. Unless of course
someone with a lot of energy and bright ideas could resurrect it.
Sam
sam@slade.softnet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:51:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Harvest of Kairos, Average B7 Age, Clinton
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0127125149-c72Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Tue 27 Jan, E van Looy wrote:
> Anybody have a tally of how many people Avon actually killed (up close and
> personal, not by firing from the Liberator) as opposed to Blake or Jenna or
> the rest of the crew?
36 kills. I just grabbed my copy of Sevencyclopaedia and looked it up. If
you want to know who they all were, buy your own copy <grin>.
Far more accurate and far more detailed than the Programme Guide, it's a very
handy reference book, especially for writers. I have copies and it can be
bought via Linda Knights or Maverick Press in the USA. Prices etc. are on
the infamous web page.
The highest kill count per episode goes to Soolin. Gan is the only character
with zero kills during the series.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:23:13 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Message-ID: <FEVRwFAxlZz0EwAE@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <34CD7243.78E0@geocities.com>, Pat Patera
<pussnboots@geocities.com> writes
>E van Looy wrote:
>
>> I used to play a lot of checkers with my grandfather when I was young, but our
>> stones were white and black. Or should the squares have been black and red?
>
>Most checkers boards have black & red squares with alternating black &
>red chips.
Most of the ones I've seen are black and white.
>Perhaps I've seen the other colored boards and mistook them for Chess
>sets?
And I've seen chess sets in black and red.
>
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:28:47 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Message-ID: <JkWSIJA$qZz0Ewjt@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <34CD78C2.3032@geocities.com>, Pat Patera
<pussnboots@geocities.com> writes
>NWOutsider wrote:
>>> re: (Checkers - the perfect
>>> adversarial pair: Jenna in red, Avon in black).
>> <snip>
>> when I read Checkers my impression was "here's someone who really
>> despises Jenna."
>
>Not at all. I gave her gobs of ink - nearly half the book! (Tarrant, by
>contrast, got only a few lines.) I spent a great many hours with Jenna
>while penning that tale. (I can take Tarrant's company for only so
>long.) She's quite a stout companion. Surely positioning her as a
>competent adversary for Avon is the highest honor a Disgustingly
>Slavering Avon Fan could bestow on any fanzine adversary? Besides, I let
>her live.
>
Have to say that I didn't like the story as much as I might have,
because it seemed to portray Jenna as a jealous, spiteful bitch - not
something I like or find particularly believable. She's got very good
reasons for not trusting Avon (three gaping holes in Blake's chest), but
her attitude comes over as being down to personal jealousy and
animosity, rather than a genuine concern that Avon is too dangerous to
Blake.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:09:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Elbert G Rudasill <egr@pobox.upenn.edu>
To: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen)
Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7
Message-Id: <199801271909.OAA12896@pobox.upenn.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Look, I haven't posted in quite a while.
But keep your eyes open.
B5 isn't just about the *Shadow War*.
JMS has stated on national TV that Blake's 7 *is* one of the
stronger influences on the show, just as is the Lord of the Rings and
Foundation trilogies.
And IMHO B5 is a much *stronger* programme, because unlike B7,
the galaxy of B5 is much better thought out, the plot line(s) are a
helluva lot more intricate, and there is more to the programme than
homosexual overtones and sardonic characters attempting to prove who is
superior to whom (and *yes* I'm talking about AVON).
As a series, B5 is already superiror to B7 becasue at least they
know what their ending is going to be instead of cheating the veiwers
with a cheap cliffhanger. (Don't get me wrong, I *do* enjoy Blake's 7),
but some of the recent comments on this list re: Babylon-5 are
unwarrented and quite small minded.
Babylon 5 is *not* just about the shadow war, it's also about the
Narn Centauri war, the Earth civil war, The colonies battle for
independence, the Minbari Civil war, the fall of Centauri Prime, and the
upcoming Telepath war.
It's about how wars get started, what happens after a war, it's
about the media, propaganda, racial and social predjudices, sacrifices,
the building of an alliance, and how difficult it can be to create peace
whilst simultaneously respecting individuals sovereign rights.
It's about choices, and what those choices mean, and how the
choices of a few can affect the choices of the many.
Babylon-5 is a much more complicated programme than light vs. dark.
And, unlike Jenna, Cally, Dayna, and Soolin, the female
characters on B5 have been strong throughout the *entire* series.
I assumed people on this list understood that.
If this get's me *flamed*. Flame me. But understand something, B5
*is* a stronger program than B7. B7 may have influenced B5, but B5 is a
better show. Part of it's the fact that technology has improved, so B5
has *real* special effects, but the other part of it is Terry Nation was
working off of the seat of his pants in his writing of B7. He has stated
himself that he didn't know what B7 was when he pitched it, and JMS had
planned out B5 three years before he pitched it - the *entire* series -
I just think a few of you are bothered by the fact that JMS has
knocked Terry Nation out of the Guiness World book of records for total
amount of consecutive television episodes written by one man in a series.
Terry Nation (13)
JMS (47)
--
Elbert Girard Rudasill
Multi-Media Consultant
Classroom Technology Services
Harnwell Hall (HRE)
University of Pennsylvania
(215) 898 - 9550
(215) 898 - 9505
egr@isc.upenn.edu
egr@pobox.upenn.edu
******************************************************************************
"We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of
laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocations
of equations. These are the tools we employ and we know many things."
- Elric, The Geometry of Shadows
*****************************************************************************
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #27
*************************************