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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 233
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Uses of teeth?
Re: [B7L] disability
Re: [B7L] RE: Tarrant Nostra baiting
[B7L] Rebellion
Re: [B7L] Tarrant in Rumours.
[B7L] crucible
Re: [B7L] disability
Re: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra baiting/raining cats & dogs
RE: [B7L] disability
Re: [B7L] Swearing by (or, rather, at) Avon's teeth (was Tarrant Nostra baiting)
Re: [B7L] raining cats & dogs
Re: [B7L] Food for Thought
RE: [B7l] disability
Re: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra baiting/raining cats & dogs
Re: [B7L] Uses of teeth?
[B7L] Space and Power
RE: [B7L] Food for Thought
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:41:18 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Uses of teeth?
Message-ID: <19980909064120.15677.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>>Actually, I think you're beginning to be greedy, Nicola. I'm prepared
>>to stand well back - as might be safer when the more fanatical
>>Avonites work out what you might have in mind (several kilometres
>>back!)
>[leisurely, feline stretch]
>Oh, I'm finished with him now. Open slather, folks ;)
Finished with him? Sharing him around? Now I am surprised. Not normal
behaviour, Nicola, or at least not my impression of normal where a
certain character is concerned. Shouldn't you be fighting tooth and nail
to keep everyone else back, or should I assume an unusual degree of
generosity on your part?
Regards
Joanne
Aromatherapy: throw some stinkweed into a hot bath. This will force you
to leave the house and think of something useful to do.
--Kaz Cooke, The Little Book of Stress
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:58:40 PDT
From: "Todd Girdler" <toddgirdler@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] disability
Message-ID: <19980909065841.4040.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> With very rare exceptions (eg. the elephant man) ugly/disfigured
>> people are bad guys.
>
>Vincent in "Beauty and the Beast" (TV series, not Disney movie) would
>be another exception, I guess.
Not so. I watched Biker Mice from Mars and the X Men this morning. All
disfigured, and all heroes. I also wouldn't call Earthworm Jim a bad
guy. I know. I'm a sad lonely person, with no life.
>
>> The only disabled character played by a disabled actor who is really
>> shown in a positive light that I can think of right now is Lifeguard
>> in Wiseguy. (both legs amputated)
>
>There is/was a series about a mute and/or deaf female lawyer. I
>happened to catch it a few times on Swedish TV but can't remember what
>it was called.
>--
> Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN |
What about the dancing bandit on "Pickett Fences". She got a permanant
role.
Admittedly, this is the minority.
Todd Girdler
"If the sum of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the square of the
other two sides, why is a mouse when it spins?"
Tom Baker, Doctor Who
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:04:35 -0400
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] RE: Tarrant Nostra baiting
Message-ID: <199809091004.GAA11176@yfn.ysu.edu>
Katrina wrote:
>> fifitrix said:
>> >Watch it you lot! - We have attack bases in Europe as well as the >US
>> you know!!
>>
>> Are you sure there isn't one in Sydney? Wouldn't have to go looking for
>> rebel hideaways in that case!
>>
>Of course there is - I'm in Sydney! [If they will have me after all. :P]
Consider yourself had. :) Fifi can fill you in on strike
capability, doomsday defenses, and the particulars of
Tarrant's body parts.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:41:41 +1000
From: "Afenech" <Fenech@onaustralia.com.au>
To: <space-city@world.std.com>
Cc: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Rebellion
Message-Id: <10453281246259@domain4.bigpond.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Lots of thanks to everyone for the information -smile-
Your collective wisdom is prodigious.
Pat F
.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 04:33:36 PDT
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, kharkess@mail.usyd.edu.au
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant in Rumours.
Message-ID: <19980909113336.18372.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Have a look at it all - it's obvious Avon can't do anything sensible
>without Tarrant. :)
He managed perfectly well for two seasons.
Can't imagine why. :-)
-- Rob
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Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:38:36 +0100
From: Robinson Paula <Paula.Robinson@RCN.ORG.UK>
To: "'space-city@world.std.com'" <space-city@world.std.com>,
"'Lysator List'"
<Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] crucible
Message-ID: <c=GB%a=_%p=RCN%l=RCN_LONDON1-980909113836Z-83536@rcn-london1.rcn.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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For those who are coming along to the Crucible on 19th, sorry I've been
so long replying to Judith's question about a good meeting place - I've
been away and it's taken me a while to catch up.
I think the fullers pub on the corner is indeed the Partidge as someone
suggested. I've never been in it, so I can't vouch for how quiet it will
be. There are some nice quiet ones in Bromley North, where I live, but
that is a bit far away as I am assuming that most people would go to
Bromley South station, which is down the road from the Churchill
Theatre. I will be in Bromley this weekend, and I'll double check the
name of the pub and see if it looks OK.
Bye for now,
Paula
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 07:58:44 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] disability
Message-ID: <de3a2507.35f66d74@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-09-09 03:03:15 EDT, you write:
<< The only disabled character played by a disabled actor who is really
>> shown in a positive light that I can think of right now is Lifeguard
>> in Wiseguy. (both legs amputated) >>
What about Joe in Highlander?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:05:29 PDT
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra baiting/raining cats & dogs
Message-ID: <19980909120530.1647.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Returning to a thread that was brought up a few months ago...
Who was it who suggested that the difference between Avon and Blake was
analogous to the difference between cats and dogs? Avon being the cat
and Blake being the dog.
While I can see a definite moggy side to Avon's personality, I can't
think of Blake having much in common with the canine species. He's too
complicated. Not even the smartest alpha wolf could lead his pack with
the same sardonic brilliance that Blake could command.
On the other hand, Tarrant seems like the perfect dog to Avon's cat.
All his positive qualities -- loyalty, persistence, sensitivity -- and
all his negative ones -- petulance, naivete, insensitivity -- are very
much what you'd associate with a dog struggling to establish his place
in a pack.
==================================================
Another idea before I leg it: did anyone notice the sudden change that
came over Blake at the end of "Redemption"? The way he ordered Avon
back to his position showed a side of his personality we'd only guessed
at up until that point.
While there is a lot of discussion on Avon's sanity during the fourth
season, I think the second season sees Blake undergoing a marked
deterioration, from which he never really recovered. The Blake of Gauda
Prime was a broken man.
So, how about a short story, set in parallel to the second series, that
shows Bran Foster's ghost appearing repeatedly to Blake -- beginning
during the events of "Redemption". It would at least help to explain
how Blake gradually gave way to his own fanticism, and how his grip on
his own sanity became increasingly tenuous.
Cheers,
Rob
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:15:01 PDT
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se, greg@geharris.co.uk
Subject: RE: [B7L] disability
Message-ID: <19980909121501.8372.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>What I want to know is just how beautiful Servalan would have become
had she
>run away with Avon?
She would have disposed of him eventually. As soon as he became a
liability, in fact.
And she would have remained just as beautiful, and deadly, as she
already was.
-- Rob
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:42:58 PDT
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Swearing by (or, rather, at) Avon's teeth (was Tarrant Nostra baiting)
Message-ID: <19980909124258.16023.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>But do keep an open mind about Tarrant while watching the
>rest of the series (you do have access to the rest of
>the series, I hope...). If you can forgive Avon all his
>faults, Tarrant should be a piece of cake. ;-)
Agreed 100%.
In addition, however, I'd like to point out that, for those of us not
particularly enamoured of Avon, the latter's faults don't make Tarrant
any more likeable. Other forms of persuasion are necessary in such
cases. ;-)
-- Rob
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:59:24 +1000
From: "Taina Nieminen" <taina@netspace.net.au>
To: "B7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
"Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] raining cats & dogs
Message-ID: <01bddc02$6eecf430$01010101@tenzil>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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>Who was it who suggested that the difference between Avon and Blake was
>analogous to the difference between cats and dogs? Avon being the cat
>and Blake being the dog.
That was me, I was more wondering (I think, I can't remember anymore)
whether cat people tended to be Avon fans and dog people Blake fans (being
cat person and Avon fan myself, and two friends who are the same).
>
>While I can see a definite moggy side to Avon's personality, I can't
>think of Blake having much in common with the canine species. He's too
>complicated. Not even the smartest alpha wolf could lead his pack with
>the same sardonic brilliance that Blake could command.
>
>On the other hand, Tarrant seems like the perfect dog to Avon's cat.
>All his positive qualities -- loyalty, persistence, sensitivity -- and
>all his negative ones -- petulance, naivete, insensitivity -- are very
>much what you'd associate with a dog struggling to establish his place
>in a pack.
>
Nice observation.
Taina
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:14:27 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Food for Thought
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0909081427-339Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Wed 09 Sep, Tigerm1019@aol.com wrote:
> Hi. It's Tiger M again.
> I wonder what would have happened if Blake had succeeded in overthrowing
> the Federation. Would things have improved or would there have been a period
> of chaos and anarchy first, like the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe
> are dealing with now? Overthrowing an oppressive government is one thing, but
> setting up a viable new society is something much harder (anyone remember the
> Articles of Confederation? If you are American, you should). I could very
> easily see the Terra Nostra move into the power vacuum left by the Federation
> government, just as the Russian Mafia has done. What makes the Russian Mafia
> even scarier is that many of them are former KGB.
> Also, all those Federation troops, spies, torturers, informers, etc. are
> not going to simply cease to exist. Many of them may disappear for a while,
> but they will still be lurking in the shadows. Many of the Nazi scientists
> who worked on the V2 and atomic projects went to work for the American and
> Soviet space and defense programs. We're still hunting down those who were
> involved in the death camps fifty years later.
It's a very interesting question. I suspect that Blake would have been unable
to control all of t resultant problems, certainly not in the short term.
To pick up just one of your points, regarding torturers. We know that Shrinker
(the torturer in 'Rumours of Death') spent a period working for the rebels when
they briefly gained control on Earth.
> How would Blake have handled these problems? What would he do about the
> torturers, etc.? Would he be a Nelson Mandela or a Boris Yeltsin?
It's a real pig of problem, because the Federation is so large. Blake could
not possibly control it all personally (even if he wanted to), thus he would be
forced to trust other people and the possibilites of cirruption etc. immediately
raise their head.
Several present day countries have had to face the question of what to do about
former informers, secret police etc. There don't seem to be any easy answers,
though I think some have handled it better than others.
How far do you follow revenge and for how long, and when is forgiveness more
important? (It goes aginst the grain to let killers go free, and yet I can see
times when forgiveness may be necessary if a society is not to tear itself apart
before it has ever got going.)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:05:47 +-200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: "BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7l] disability
Message-Id: <01BDDC14.1A70D220@cmg71700449>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Judith spake thusly:
> The only disabled character played by a disabled actor who is really shown
> in a positive light that I can think of right now is Lifeguard in Wiseguy.
> (both legs amputated)
And Susan replied:
> Of course, the same actor plays Joe Dawson in Highlander, and he's > a mostly positive guy.
There's also Corky Thatcher in Life Goes On (Down's syndrome).
Jacqueline Thijsen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:00:04 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra baiting/raining cats & dogs
Message-ID: <QJqeoLA0At91EwX3@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <19980909120530.1647.qmail@hotmail.com>, Rob Clother
<whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com> writes
>Another idea before I leg it: did anyone notice the sudden change that
>came over Blake at the end of "Redemption"? The way he ordered Avon
>back to his position showed a side of his personality we'd only guessed
>at up until that point.
It appears earlier than that, in Breakdown, with a threat to destroy a
surgeon's hands.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:24:20 +1200
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Uses of teeth?
Message-Id: <l03130303b21bdd166ab0@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
me:
>>[leisurely, feline stretch]
>>Oh, I'm finished with him now. Open slather, folks ;)
Joanne:
>Finished with him? Sharing him around? Now I am surprised. Not normal
>behaviour, Nicola, or at least not my impression of normal where a
>certain character is concerned. Shouldn't you be fighting tooth and nail
>to keep everyone else back, or should I assume an unusual degree of
>generosity on your part?
Well, it's either that or get maimed in the process of being torn bodily
off him ;) Us Leos do have our pride, you know.
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie mailto:nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
"I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV."
55 sleeps!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:57:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: "G. Robbins" <robbins@graceland.edu>
To: B7 Main List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Space and Power
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980909213443.22826A-100000@inet-ux.graceland.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Today in my American Literature class we discussed a work by John
Winthrop, a leader of the second wave of pilgrims to come to America in
its early beginnings. What does this have to do with Blake's 7, you ask?
Well, John Winthrop's great destiny for the "New World" was to create a
society which was designed in a very restricted fashion. A rich family
must remain rich, and a poor family must remain poor. If you were born
that way, it was supposedly "God's will" and to try to change it would be
against God. Our professor informed us of many chinks in Winthrop's plan,
one including that he did not forsee that America was a land of great
space, and the human spirit is designed to grow and expand beyond any
social constrictions. I immediately thought of Blake's 7 and of how our
beloved crew broke away from the totalitarian Federation...because there
was so much space, and because the Liberator gave them such power to move
in that space. Winthrop's "city on a hill" lasted only three years until
many of the pilgrims realized that they did not need to stay within the
boundaries of such a restricting society. I thought it was such an
interesting parallel, and since it happened before, why couldn't it happen
again? This begs a question in my mind...what will the future hold for
our universe when we eventually (if ever) reach the capability to settle
worlds of our own? How will we cope, and will the past repeat itself?
The words that to this day still appear on the back of the US dollar bill
nearby that creepy pyramid are: "annuit coeptis" (The leader/king sees)
and "novus ordo seclorum" (new world order). Will our universe be lead by
an all seeing dictator with hopes for a "new world order"?
I now feel that maybe I should be a history major...no I don't.
--Grace
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:55:46 +0100
From: Anne Lane <aplane@tesco.net>
To: "'B7'" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Food for Thought
Message-ID: <01BDDC99.B0629680.aplane@tesco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wednesday, September 09, 1998 9:14 AM, Judith wrote:
>
> > How would Blake have handled these problems? What would he do about
> > the
> > torturers, etc.? Would he be a Nelson Mandela or a Boris Yeltsin?
>
> It's a real pig of problem, because the Federation is so large. Blake could
> not possibly control it all personally (even if he wanted to), thus he would
> be
> forced to trust other people and the possibilites of cirruption etc.
> immediately
> raise their head.
I think that Blake's intention was to dissolve the Federation, allowing
individual planets and peoples their independence, so he might just leave them
to deal with their own Federation employees, criminals, collaborators, etc. and
reserve his attentions for Earth. Though without external support planets whose
infrastructure had been deliberately weakened by the Federation's occupation
would be likely to fall into civil war or, like the British tribes after the
Romans left, to be overrun by another invader.
Anne
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #233
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