From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #230 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume98/230 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 230 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra baiting Re: [B7L] Re: Tarrant Nostra baiting Re: [B7L] Tarrant in Rumours. Re: [B7L] Is Vila dead? RE: [B7L] The Crucible [B7L] Merlin [B7L] The rebellion Re: [B7L] The rebellion [B7L] Teeth etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:36:09 -0400 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra baiting Message-ID: <199809052036.QAA24438@yfn.ysu.edu> This is my second attempt to answer this post. I had completed a response early this morning when my ISP hiccuped and I lost it. :( Suzanne wrote: >I agree with this. I really liked Tarrant when I first saw him in >"Powerplay." He was a good match for Avon and it was obvious Avon had a great >deal of respect for him in this ep. But as the series progressed he lost that >"hard edge" he displayed in the beginning and Avon no longer treated him as an >equal. Tarrant's honesty, morality, and good-heartedness may be admirable >qualites, but where within the hostile, violent B7 universe would those >attributes be appeciated? I agree that Tarrant is a misfit in the harsh B7 universe, but that's exactly what most fascinates me about him. That he could retain that sense of a less cruel world amazes me. Not that I'm sure he can avoid a hard edge forever. There were times within the series when his good nature gave way and the hard edge returned. For instance, in Rumours, when he was taunting Shrinker (which I attribute to stress--all those days of worrying about Avon's welfare). He grows hard again in "Gold" in his treatment of Keiller, when he thinks Keiller was responsible for Avon's and Soolin's deaths. And I can see Tarrant growing permanently hard and bitter after Gauda Prime. He shows considerable darkness during that episode. I've read at least two PGP stories that feature a believably dark Tarrant. I'm not sure that Avon would ever consistently treat anyone as his equal, so I don't relate any decrease in respect for Tarrant to Tarrant's post-Powerplay "softening." It's enough for me that by 4th series Avon does respect Tarrant enough to make him his confidant. >Avon and Tarrant are my favorites because I DO like the way they work together >(especially 4th season), but I can't help think it would have been a better >pairing if Tarrant had kept that little bit of "sinister" he had in the >beginning. While I like the Avon-Tarrant dynamics for the contrast between them. Avon's cynicism vs. Tarrant's hopefulness. Actually, I like everyone in the series exactly as they are. To change anyone would disrupt all of the dynamics, and I'm very fond of things the way they stand. >It would have made "Sand" more entertaining (for me, anyway). I would have >preferred Servalan not to have been quite so sure of her postion (she KNEW >Tarrant wouldn't kill her). If the Tarrant from "Powerplay" had been with her >she wouldn't have been quite so confident. But then it might as well have been Avon. Tarrant brought out Servalan's vulnerable side. She couldn't force Tarrant to change to where he'd kill her, but he did force her to change to where she let him live. Sometimes kindness is mightier than menace. We'd already seen Avon and Servalan crossing paths; it was nice (for me) that "Sand" provided something completely different. >Tarrant in the black Fed uniform and Avon in the flight suit from "Warlord" -- ><sigh> these are my favorite looks for my two favorite guys. Second >fave...Avon in black silk shirt in "Aftermath." He also looks great in the >black outfit from "Voices from the Past"-- Oh good, one of my favorite threads... (pun shamefully intended) While my opinion has been known to change, as of now here are some favorites (given in order of most favorite first). Avon: Mellanby's droolable black silk hand-me-down (Aftermath), white parka (various early season episodes), dark top with thick white stripes that give it a bibbed look (various first season eps) (I think that outfit makes Avon look young and vulnerable.) Tarrant: midnight blue tunic and corded pants (Death-Watch), late fourth season gray. (Both costumes flatter his scrumptious figure). Tied for third: red jacket with black trim (Terminal and Rescue), cream colored jacket and trousers (with braces; love those braces) from Harvest, Federation uniform (Powerplay, Moloch). After handling a Federation uniform, I'm especially impressed that he made it look good. It's nothing but off-the-rack coveralls with a Federation symbol applied to the pocket. >Carol McCoy wrote that Tarrant DID have salvage rights in "Aftermath" -- not >so. As long as Avon was still in control of <and in touch with> ZEN, the ship >was still his. In fact, they wouldn't have been able to dock if Avon hadn't >allowed it. There was no salvage to be had. However, I don't believe Tarrant >ever wanted the ship. But if he had, he would have found it more difficult to >take it away from Avon than Carol McCoy indicates. For one thing, despite >everything, and when all is said and done, the crew would have supported Avon. I said most of that with tongue in cheek (a retalitory strike for Tarrant baiting <g>). Not that I don't believe Tarrant couldn't have taken the ship if he wanted it, but he didn't want it. He simply wanted someone to be in charge. As for whether the ship was or wasn't legitimate salvage, that would depend on the salvage laws of the time. I doubt they took into account the fact that a ship could be empty and still be under control (because Zen and Orac were presented as rather unique). So I suspect the law was written to assume an empty ship would be legitimate salvage, and it would take legal types years to sort out whether the Liberator situation exempted it from the letter of the law. Not that our fugitive rebels could have brought a case to court. :) Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:51:35 -0400 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Tarrant Nostra baiting Message-ID: <199809052051.QAA24954@yfn.ysu.edu> Katrina wrote: >Mmm. Actually, you can find hints of it here and there. Black made him look >a bit sinister to me: I always felt that wearing a uniform can affect how >you think and act. He was used to acting in a certain way in that uniform >and so it, unconsciously, came out. That's an intriguing observation. Maybe you can write a story that utilizes it. <hint, hint> >I think that in Blake, he really did believe Blake had set them up - had >set Avon up - and he knew how important Blake was to Avon. I think he was >also desperate to get his info and support to Avon and the others. You won't find me disagreeing with that. He was so desperate to warn Avon and his shipmates of Blake's "treachery" that he risked his life to get to them. As Mary Ridge tells it Tarrant was so badly broken up that every bone in his body ached, yet he went up against odds of three to one (with two of the three armed)--Blake, Arlen, Deva--when he made his escape attempt. >And I've >often wondered about that - Dev Tarrant and Del Tarrant. Who thinks there's >a connection? I love stories that have them related. And there are some good ones out there. I'd especially recommend the Last Stand at the Edge of the Universe series (by Ann Wortham and Leah Rosenthal) and Sheila Paulson's "Empire of Sand." >> Recent reading suggests that, before Pacey was cast, the character was >> going to continue on Powerplay's lines and could have turned out to be a >> baddie I don't think he was intended to be a baddie, but he was intended to be in charge of the ship. I'm very glad they ended up with a younger- than-intended Tarrant. Without that, we might have ended up with a repeat of 1st-2nd season dynamics. I like that Avon ended up accepting the responsibility of leadership and how he changed as a result. I much prefer 3rd-4th season Avon. >, but they abandoned the idea very quickly. Has anyone ever >written >> any fanfic about that earlier character? It's an AU I would probably >> enjoy. Both the above mentioned Last Stand stories and Kathy Hansen's "Edge of Betrayal" presume that Tarrant's motives when boarding Liberator were more sinister than the series would suggest. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:59:08 -0400 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant in Rumours. Message-ID: <199809052059.QAA25131@yfn.ysu.edu> Katrina wrote: >And later when he adds the 'within reason' to Cally's line about careing >about Avon. Or later still when he's got the quick wits to stop Avon >killing Major Grenlee before they find Servalan. Or the way he says all >Servalan's titles and has caught on to the terribly indignity of what >happened to her; in her own presidencial residence too! And convinces >Servalan to tell them about Anna/Bartolomew but pointing out her guard >might just have raised the alarm. Ah, this is all music to my ears. What amazes me is that "Rumours" often is right near the top in favorite episode polls, yet Tarrant remains near the bottom in popularity. That episode is a showcase of Tarrant's virtues. I can only presume that most fans are concentrating so intently on the Avon angst that they miss Tarrant's supportive role. >Have a look at it all - it's obvious Avon can't do anything sensible >without Tarrant. :) Well, of course! ;-) Avon would have been toast way back in "Powerplay" if Tarrant hadn't shot the trooper who was about to shoot Avon. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:07:25 -0400 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Is Vila dead? Message-ID: <199809052107.RAA25459@yfn.ysu.edu> Judith wrote: >But as far as the series goes - they're all dead in my book. Without getting into Chris Boucher's denial of this--because I like to view the series as real and not subject to outside considerations--I think the odds are against all of them being dead, even if the troopers were using live ammo. What's the chances of all of them taking a fatal shot? Especially if you consider what bad marksment Federation troopers have been up until then. :) Which isn't to say that I can't be persuaded of any survival vs. death continuations that good writers provide. Joanne, I hope someone can help fill in your gaps. I hadn't realized where you were from (far from here and my NTSC format) until you mentioned Sydney. Off topic comment: I hope the water contamination problems have ended for our list members in Sydney. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 22:50:43 +0100 From: Anne Lane <aplane@tesco.net> To: "'B7'" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: RE: [B7L] The Crucible Message-ID: <01BDD91F.B58A5F80.aplane@tesco.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Saturday, September 05, 1998 8:24 PM, Judith wrote: > Any more for The Crucible in Bromley on Saturday 19 Sept? > > So far we have Steve, Paula, Tom, Louise, Anne, Linda and me. > snip > > We'll be meeting up before the show but haven't quite decided where. > > Paula - do you know the name of the pub Anne suggested? She said it was > Fuller's pub on the corner of High Street and Chruch Rd. Further selfless research by my husband has established that this is called The Partridge. He reckons it's the quietest pub in Bromley, but as we don't live there we're rarely there on a Saturday evening. > > Or do you know a better pub? I'm easy as long as you pick one with a low > background noise level. I still have voice problems now and then, so I can't > talk over a lot of noise. > > >snip > while I'm collecting bookings, does anyone want me to request a ticket for > the > Wednesday chat (6.15 - 6.45)? > Yes, please! Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:14:51 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> cc: Space City <Space-city@world.std.com> Subject: [B7L] Merlin Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0906111451-313Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII According to Kaleidoscope's web page (which I don't totally trust having seen inaccurate information there before - but on the other hand, they did make the programme), 'Merlin: The Magic Begins' is available to television stations October 28th through November 15th for two runs. Presumably they mean that's when it will be broadcast in the US. I hope someone will copy it for me. Gareth looked lovely in the stills I've seen. Whether it will ever get made into a series is anyone's guess. It's been a saga of ups and downs and even if it does get to be a series, there's no guarantee that they'd keep the original cast. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:59:36 +1000 From: "Afenech" <Fenech@onaustralia.com.au> To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Cc: <space-city@world.std.com> Subject: [B7L] The rebellion Message-Id: <13515053149233@domain4.bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone -smile- I was trying to think of the various bits and pieces we heard or saw about the rebellion - remember Bran Fosters group and Kasabi on Earth, the Auronar like Cally, Avalon, the people of Albion, Del Grant, Le Grand & Outer Gal, Saurian Major, Heliotrix, Ushton, Hob & co after Star One, the planetary leaders in Warlord?, thought too of the rebellious scientists like Ensor who'd fled ... can anyone remember any more either incidents, mentions, or rebels? Pat Fenech ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:38:03 +0100 From: "Julie Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com> To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] The rebellion Message-ID: <001c01bdd9cd$f20b6cc0$1b5f95c1@orac> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Afenech <Fenech@onaustralia.com.au> >I was trying to think of the various bits and pieces we heard or saw about the >rebellion... snip >thought too of the rebellious scientists like Ensor who'd fled ... >can anyone remember any more either incidents, mentions, or rebels? Does Dr Plaxton count? I can't remember now whether she left the Federation willingly. Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:25:57 PDT From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Teeth etc. Message-ID: <19980906222558.2420.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Nicola says: >Although you might want to leave once his "punishment" reaches >Phase 2. Umm. I thought so. <chuckle> Not that I want to know what it is, do I? Regards Joanne All celebrated people lose dignity on a close view. -- Napoleon Bonaparte ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #230 **************************************