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------------------------------
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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 223
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
[B7L] Re: Encyclopaedia of SF
Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
RE: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
[B7L] To Jacqueline
Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
[B7L] "Avon-Without-Guilt"
Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
[B7L] Re: books
Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
RE: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
[B7L] Re: responses of an "Avon-like" nature
[B7L] (no subject)
[B7L] Susan Matthews
Re: [B7L] Susan Matthews
Re: [B7L] Re: responses of an "Avon-like" nature
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:34:01 EDT
From: ShilLance@aol.com
To: Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-ID: <161d58f9.35e695a9@aol.com>>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-27 18:08:43 EDT, Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk
writes:
<< If the lists weren't so
quiet right now, I wouldn't have seen the offending post, because Gwynn
is one of the people I killfile when I can't read everything. And
that's because Gwynn is one of the people who has apparently never read
a guide to netiquette. >>
Once again......i'm sorry. I didn't realize there was a guide to netiquette.
I'll stick to lurking so as to stay out of your (and anyone else who might
have a problem with me) way.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1998 13:56:04 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-ID: <is3eah1fsb.fsf@godzilla.kiere.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
ShilLance@aol.com writes:
> Once again......i'm sorry. I didn't realize there was a guide to netiquette.
> I'll stick to lurking so as to stay out of your (and anyone else who might
> have a problem with me) way.
You will of course do as you please, but a more creative solution
might be to read a guide on netiquette and learn from it. There should
be one posted to news:news.announce.newusers often enough to be there
constantly, and
http://www.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/Information_and_Documentation/Beginner_s_Guides/Netiquette/
seems to hold a few good pointers.
--
Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin
qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:26:49 +1000
From: "Katrina Harkess" <kharkess@mail.usyd.edu.au>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-Id: <199808281228.WAA07407@extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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>
> You will of course do as you please, but a more creative solution
> might be to read a guide on netiquette and learn from it. There should
> be one posted to news:news.announce.newusers often enough to be there
> constantly, and
>
http://www.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/Information_and_Documen
tation/Beginner_s_Guides/Netiquette/
> seems to hold a few good pointers.
> --
As an occasional poster delurking again, I never read anything on
netiquette: I took my cue from other posters. And everyone was helpful when
I made mistakes.
Out of curiousity [yes, yes, I know this has nothing to do with B7 - if you
want my posts on B7, read SC. ;P] how many people actually read up on
netiquette and FAQs before plunging in??
Actually, that makes me think of something B7 related - Manners on B7 seem
pretty similar to today but if you study history, you see that etiquette
changes pretty dramatically over time. Why's the Federation *not*
changing??
Katrina.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:25:16 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Encyclopaedia of SF
Message-ID: <199808280925_MC2-57AA-E2BC@compuserve.com>
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Gregory wrote:
>Also, that wonderful scene with Servalan chained
>to a wall said to me that B7 had sort of won at least
>one of their aims, i.e. to disrupt the leadership of the Fed'.
It wasn't B7 who captured Servalan, it was Anna and her rebels - who would
probably have failed anyway but didn't have their chances improved when
Avon shot their leader. Servalan was eventually displaced by an internal
Federation power struggle.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1998 15:36:11 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-ID: <isww7tz0s4.fsf@godzilla.kiere.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
"Katrina Harkess" <kharkess@mail.usyd.edu.au> writes:
> how many people actually read up on netiquette and FAQs before
> plunging in??
I did. But that was back in the Good Old Days (1990).
--
Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin
qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:53:13 +0100
From: "Taylor, Steve [CCS]" <S.Taylor@lmu.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-ID: <C3C58868ED93D111B04A0800097D2D9D4129C4@lis-exchange1.lmu.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain
> "Katrina Harkess" <kharkess@mail.usyd.edu.au> writes:
>
> > how many people actually read up on netiquette and FAQs before
> > plunging in??
>
Calle said
>
> I did. But that was back in the Good Old Days (1990).
>
Steve T added
<AOL>
Me too
</AOL>
Sorry - couldn't resist it:-)
And it was later - 1992
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:10:22 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980828150618.13952C-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On 28 Aug 1998, Calle Dybedahl wrote:
> "Katrina Harkess" <kharkess@mail.usyd.edu.au> writes:
>
> > how many people actually read up on netiquette and FAQs before
> > plunging in??
>
> I did. But that was back in the Good Old Days (1990).
In October 1994 I became officially the last person on Earth ever to read
up on netiquette. I have the certificate and everything.
Of course, these days I post off-topic messages containing more quoted
material than text, just like everybody else.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:20:13 +1000
From: "Taina Nieminen" <taina@netspace.net.au>
To: "B7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] To Jacqueline
Message-ID: <01bdd28e$f88a3cc0$01010101@tenzil>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Jacqueline, could you drop me a note again, please? I have lost your e-mail
address.
Taina
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:33:39 -0400
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-ID: <199808281433.KAA18495@yfn.ysu.edu>
Katrina wrote:
>As an occasional poster delurking again, I never read anything on
>netiquette: I took my cue from other posters. And everyone was helpful when
>I made mistakes.
I didn't even realize that there was proper Netiquette and it
was months before I deciphered what "FAQ" meant. I'm very grateful
that everyone was patient while I found my sealegs.
Maybe it was my own ignorant plunge into cyberspace, but I tend
to assume that Net offenses are the result of ignorance such as
I was guilty of. It's not that people wouldn't confirm to Netiquette,
they don't know it exists. I wouldn't have known to go searching
for a FAQ or web site with information on Netiquette. I didn't
know such existed until the subject came up this week. :)
Katrina, interesting question about manners now vs. B7. I'll
have to ponder that a bit and see if it generates any thoughts
on the subject. At the moment my brain won't even come up with
examples of how manners have changed between the past and now,
except I remember a museum exhibit on Elizabethan times that
mentioned Elizabethans held informal gatherings in their
bedrooms.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:04:51 -0700
From: "Ann Basart" <abasart@dnai.com>
To: "Blake's7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] "Avon-Without-Guilt"
Message-Id: <199808281501.IAA16180@mercury.dnai.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Has anyone out there read Barbara Paul's new mystery, "Full Frontal
Murder," in which one of the principal characters (Holland) is very much
Avon, and most of the secondary
characters are named after people or even places in B7? (It's dedicated to
"the Avon-Without-Guilt gang.") If so, I'd be interested in your comments &
reactions. And any info on the author you might have.
TIA, Ann
abasart@dnai.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:19:52 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-Id: <199808281637.LAA04926@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Calle Dybedahl wrote:
>I did. But that was back in the Good Old Days (1990).
Steve T added:
>And it was later - 1992
Newbies.
Now, I've been online since ARPAnet (early '80s). Didn't have netiquette
guides back then. (Our computers were steam-powered, and modems consisted
of tin cans and string.) I learned netiquette the old-fashioned way:
observation and common sense. I watched what other folks did, and I noticed
what made things easiest to read and follow. Trimming quotes was one of the
really obvious ones; shouldn't have to read a treatise for that.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@ti.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 20:36:18 +0100
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: books
Message-ID: <35E706AE.25C2DAB6@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Chris asked: "I have got a few books about Blake's 7 but what I am
really looking for are the early novels. Can anyone help me?"
The first novel was just called Blake's 7 by Trevor Hoyle and was a
novelisation of the events in the early episodes. Hoyle did two more
novelisations of events in the episodes - Project Avalon and Scorpio
Attack, the latter covering the episodes Rescue, Traitor and Stardrive.
The novel Afterlife by Tony Attwood deals with events as he sees them
immediately after the end of season four. The only other novel I know of
is Avon: A Terrible Aspect by Paul Darrow looking at Avon's life before
the series started. I believe all of them are out of print, but it is
worth trying Horizon, which sometimes has stocks, and they all
occassionally pop up on dealer's stalls at sci-fi fairs and conventions.
However, your best bet for original B7 fiction is to go for some of the
many fiction zines that fans have produced. Others on this list can give
you more information on them if you are interested.
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
Redemption 99: The Blakes 7 and Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Ashford, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
"Get in there you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell"
Star Wars
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:39:30 EDT
From: ShilLance@aol.com
To: qdtcall@esavionics.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-ID: <af4f9d77.35e70772@aol.com>>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-08-28 07:57:56 EDT, qdtcall@esavionics.se writes:
<< You will of course do as you please,>>
You're right....I will.
<< but a more creative solution
might be to read a guide on netiquette and learn from it. There should
be one posted to news:news.announce.newusers often enough to be there
constantly, and
http://www.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/Information_and_Document
ation/Beginner_s_Guides/Netiquette/
seems to hold a few good pointers. >>
Thanks for the advice..........<sigh>
In this group, I'll lurk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:42:57 EDT
From: ShilLance@aol.com
To: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-ID: <e63ac1f7.35e70841@aol.com>>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-28 12:12:10 EDT, ay648@yfn.ysu.edu writes:
<< Maybe it was my own ignorant plunge into cyberspace, but I tend
to assume that Net offenses are the result of ignorance such as
I was guilty of. It's not that people wouldn't confirm to Netiquette,
they don't know it exists. >>
Glad someone could see this.
thanks again.
Gwynn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 20:48:11 +0100
From: Anne Lane <aplane@tesco.net>
To: "'Blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-ID: <01BDD2C6.0A2B2840.aplane@tesco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Friday, August 28, 1998 3:10 PM, Iain Coleman wrote:
>
>
> Of course, these days I post off-topic messages containing more quoted
> material than text, just like everybody else.
>
When I post to newsgroups my news reader (or whatever it is) actually tells me
if I've used an incorrect ratio of quoted to new text, and asks if I really
want to go ahead and offend people! (seems to happen every time) Of course
e-mail doesn't do this. I haven't found it a problem on this list or SC before
I got zapped, but I've recently joined another group whose members are fond of
quoting an entire 64K fanfic story just to add 'that's wonderful', and it's
really jamming my mail box, as well as adding to the phone bills. It is worth
taking care, and remembering that a private group with dial-up connections has
different rules to, say, work where mail is free and it may be important to
quote an entire string of correspondence.
nb. the spell checker suggest 'fanatic', 'fanciful' or 'Fanuc' for 'fanfic'.
The first two sound OK but what's 'Fanuc'?
Anne Lane
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:39:51 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: a response to a response
Message-ID: <RYOzuUAntu51Ewnu@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Pine.OSF.3.96.980828150618.13952C-100000@bsauasc>, Iain
Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk> writes
>In October 1994 I became officially the last person on Earth ever to read
>up on netiquette. I have the certificate and everything.
June 1997. But that's because my ISP includes a copy of FYI28 on the
sign-up disk, and reading it is one of the AUP conditions...
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:51:37 EDT
From: DCsquared@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: responses of an "Avon-like" nature
Message-ID: <44443ccf.35e74289@aol.com>>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> If the lists weren't so
> quiet right now, I wouldn't have seen the offending post, because Gwynn
> is one of the people I killfile when I can't read everything. And
> that's because Gwynn is one of the people who has apparently never read
> a guide to netiquette.
Gee whiz, guys! I don't think Gwynn is the only one who hasn't read the
netiquette handbook! Good netiquette does not include rude, curt responses to
newbies. Violations are generally not intended to annoy you, it's just that
it hasn't yet occurred to the "offender" that a particular action might cause
other folks extra cost or inconvenience. A good-natured, gentle "heads-up" is
usually all that's required (preferably by private message). Yes, I finally
ran across the netiquette rules, but I didn't ALWAYS know about them. Lucky
for me, most folks back then were pretty tolerant of newbies, and I wasn't
publicly chastised and embarrassed. Have we all been listers for so long that
we feel entitled to laugh at other folks mistakes?
Personally, I feel bad. It's not that the points made haven't been
legitimate, (i.e., extra cost and undue scrolling), but the tone of the posts
makes us sound arrogant and unfriendly. Fortunately, I've been here long
enough to know that that is not (generally) true. Maybe I'm just unduly
sensitive, but I'd rather err on that side myself. I have to say, that as
much as I admire you Calle, I thought your first post about the quoting was
unnecessarily curt (as well as some of the followups). Not wrong mind you,
just not nice. You are probably just very busy (or in a particularly Avon-ish
mood), but I sympathize with Gwynn's reaction. Sometimes, being right isn't
as much the point as being kind. We're all better off if we encourage
everyone to be as active in posting as possible. That way, we all get to
indulge our favorite passion, B7!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Donna Chlouber
Keeper of Zen's Wisdom
B7 Novice Writer's Group
(where we keep all criticism to a bare minimum!)
http://members.aol.com/DCsquared/mainframe.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:58:52 EDT
From: SuzanThoms@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] (no subject)
Message-ID: <956983ea.35e7605c@aol.com>>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>>DCsquared@aol.com wrote:
>>I have to say, that as much as I admire you Calle, I thought your
>>first post about the quoting was unnecessarily curt (as well as some
>>of the followups). <<
When I first saw that post, I thought it was rather brusque, and I felt sorry
for Gwynn. But I wasn't sure if I was just being sensitive because I'm not
familiar with how elists operate. Although I've been a fan of B7 since I was
12, this is my first foray into groups and elists. When I joined the lists, I
dove right in and started sending messages, but now I'm rather nervous about
doing so. I'm enjoying this list (and Space City) so much, and I really like
the exchanges and information and B7 talk, but I'm only just realizing how
much trouble you can get into if you say or do the wrong thing. I think I'll
"lurk" from now on.
Thanks, Suzanne
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 98 03:19:00 GMT
From: s.thompson8@genie.com
To: space-city%world.std.com%inet03#@genie.com
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Susan Matthews
Message-Id: <199808290341.DAA12908@rock103.genie.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm working backward through my stack of back issues of =Locus=. The June
'98 issue has a favorable review of Susan's latest novel, =Prisoner of
Conscience= (the second in the series about the torturer); and, if you
wonder what she looks like, on p. 46 there is a cute photo of her with her
SO at the '98 Nebula Awards Weekend.
The review, by Russell Letson, concludes: "Despite the difficulty of the
subject matter (now =there's= an understatement) and my doubts about whether
things are completely under artistic control, I find the psychological and
moral intensity of these books compelling. If Matthews keeps working at
this level of intensity, she is going to continue to be worth reading,
difficulties and all."
(For anyone who doesn't recognize the name, Susan Matthews is the author of
one of the classics of B7 fan fiction, the =Mind of Man= trilogy. The first
novel in the set is especially good. The set isn't in print any more, and
probably won't be reprinted; but you can find used copies fairly easily.
Highly recommended, especially for fans of Avon-angst.)
Here's hoping that Susan's success is a good omen for Narrelle and any other
B7 fan writers interested in going pro.
Oh, and-- Susan's publisher is Avon Books. Naturally. :)
Sarah T.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:42:00 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Susan Matthews
Message-ID: <19980829174200.18704@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 03:19:00AM +0000, s.thompson8@genie.com wrote:
> I'm working backward through my stack of back issues of =Locus=. The June
> '98 issue has a favorable review of Susan's latest novel, =Prisoner of
> Conscience= (the second in the series about the torturer); and, if you
> wonder what she looks like, on p. 46 there is a cute photo of her with her
> SO at the '98 Nebula Awards Weekend.
>
> The review, by Russell Letson, concludes: "Despite the difficulty of the
> subject matter (now =there's= an understatement) and my doubts about whether
> things are completely under artistic control, I find the psychological and
> moral intensity of these books compelling. If Matthews keeps working at
> this level of intensity, she is going to continue to be worth reading,
> difficulties and all."
If it's anything like the first book, I can understand the comment.
I read the first book (darn, I've forgotten the title) and thought,
"That was an excellent book -- and I'll never ever reccommend it to
anyone, and I almost wish I hadn't read it." I agree, "difficult" is
an understatement. I mean, a book about this doctor who has to learn
to be a torturer -- and she manages to make all the main characters
sympathetic (well, except for the fellow's enemy, but even she is not
a stark black villain). Arrrgh. That book haunts me, and I wish it
wouldn't.
> (For anyone who doesn't recognize the name, Susan Matthews is the author of
> one of the classics of B7 fan fiction, the =Mind of Man= trilogy. The first
> novel in the set is especially good. The set isn't in print any more, and
> probably won't be reprinted; but you can find used copies fairly easily.
> Highly recommended, especially for fans of Avon-angst.)
Definitely.
The first story is the best of the trilogy.
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tarrant: It certainly doesn't look very appealing.
Dayna: No, it's much too green.
Vila: Why don't you repaint it while you're down there?
(Blake's 7: Sand [D9])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:24:32 EDT
From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com
To: DCsquared@aol.com
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: responses of an "Avon-like" nature
Message-ID: <67cf6a75.35e7f300@aol.com>>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Thanks, Donna, for that kind reply to the etiquette debate. It is a rather
scary thing being new to a list. The newbie wants to take part in the
discussion - it looks so fun and all - but doesn't know quite how to go about
it or if anyone will even respond and acknowledge his/her existence. I, like
many others, didn't have a clue about these rules and would have done exactly
the same thing as Gwynn if I had known how to do the quote thing. (Gwynn has
very kindly explained how to do this since then.) Thanks again!
Gail Gawlik
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #223
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