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blakes7-d Digest				Volume 98 : Issue 19

Today's Topics:
	 Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
	 [B7L] Sevefold Crown
	 Re: [B7L] Slash debate
	 re:[B7L]: Avons Angels
	 [B7L] Video rereleases
	 Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
	 Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
	 Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
	 [B7L] Heartbeat
	 [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
	 [B7L] internet chat
	 Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans
	 Re: [B7L] Slash debate
	 Re: [B7L] Fanfic essay
	 Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
	 Re:[B7L]Sarcophagus
	 Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
	 Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
	 Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
	 Re: [B7L] editing on Volcano/DotG tape?
	 Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
	 Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
	 Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #16
	 Re: [B7L] Heartbeat
	 Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
	 Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
	 [B7L] Steven Donaldson
	 Re: [B7L] Claypit People
	 [B7L] More Steven Donaldson
	 Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
	 Re: [B7L] Slash debate
	 Re: [B7L] Claypit People
	 Re: [B7L] Claypit People

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:47:34 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
Message-ID: <34C42C66.68C86498@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Heather wrote:
> Forgive me for being thick, but I am an ardent Who fan, I can't think of
> occasions when Trek corrupted Who (I can think of far too many occasions
> when Trek ripped off  Who tho' Cybermen/Borg, anyone?)
> Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith
> 

I was thinking about the movie, particularly the REALLY irritating
nonsense about the Doctor's being half-human a la Spock. I don't know
whose idea THAT was, but I can't help but think some (young, very young)
MBA type executive at Fox came up with it thinking that Dr. Who would be
just too alien (and sophisticated) for American audiences.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:32:09 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Sevefold Crown
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0119183209-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1

The Sevenfold Crown is available from Horizon

UK price including postage is 8 pounds.

Europe 8.90 pounds

USA/Canada  9.40 pounds

Aus/NZ  9.65 pounds

Order from Diane Gies, 18 Holt Rd, North Wembley, Middlesex, HA0 3PS. 
Cheques should be made payable to 'Horizon, the B7 Appreciation Society'.

Australians facing currency conversion problems may pay via Pat Fenech and
myself in AUS dollars.  ( contact P.Fenech@library.usyd.edu.au)  This is a
free service - the only charge is for the postage stamp from myself to
Horizon.  Although I do appreciate it if you order one of my zines at the
same time.

Horizon will take US dollar cheques.  There's a $1 surcharge to cover their
bank fees.  They request people to please ask a bank the current exchange
rate for selling dollars when calculating how much to send.  Multiply the
pound price quoted above by the exchange rate to get the dollar price and
then add one dollar.

Horizon should have copies for sale at Deliverance.

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:30:19 -0000
From: Alison Page <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Message-ID: <885291922.203672.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Pat P said - 

> Perhaps surival of the
> species requires women to acquiese.

Nah - survival of the species requires women to survive - and as someone
said in another context :-)

'Winning is the only safety'

> Women who
> have everything going for them turn into "something else" when a baby
> comes along.

Hey - we aren't all childless on this list you know

Alison 'something else' Page

PS cheer up folks - I could have gone ballistic

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:42:32 -0800
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: re:[B7L]: Avons Angels
Message-ID: <34C4FE28.6F0E@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Julia Jones wrote:
> 
> In message <Pine.OSF.3.96.980119152458.2921A-100000@bsauasc>, Iain
> Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk> writes
> >
> >
> >On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Pat Patera wrote:
> >
> >> his "followers" on target. Indeed, they belonged to Blake, even after
> >> his departure. Altho Avon *wanted* to follow a different path, he seemed
> >> gripped still by an unseen hand on his rudder.
> >
> >Was I the only person who nearly spluttered coffee all over the monitor
> >after reading that line?
> 
> I don't believe it - I didn't see it when I read that post the first
> time round, and I have been accused on numerous occasions of having a
> sick and filthy mind.
> >
> >"Carry On Blake" - now there's a thought. Kenneth Williams as Avon,
> >certainly, but I'm torn between Sid James and Charles Hawtrey for Blake.
> >
> Nonono - Sid James is Vila.

That`s fine as long as no-one, I repeat NO-ONE, suggests Charles HawtreY 
as Avon. Purleeze!
Would`nt Peter Butterworth make a better Vila.
Kenneth Conner would make a fitting Blake, all bluster.
Or how about the charactor "Odd Bod" from a "Carry On.." film as Blake 
(all hairy).

And I know this suggestion would be better placed on the other list, but 
how about Julian Clary as Avon? 
As a rabid Avon fan, I ask not to be excommunicated for that comment, 
I`ll take any punishment you care to give.  I`ll even spend the next 
decade spit-polishing his leather outfits (to his PERSONAL satisfaction- 
sorry, it is supposed to be a punishment).
Who should be cast as Servalan opposite Julian`s Avon?? Perfect! Hattie 
Jacques!!

Now,.... who`s left from the "carry on" crew to be recast in B7: Jim 
Dale, June Whitfield, Frankie Howerd, and Barbara Windsor (omigawd!)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:03:09 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Video rereleases
Message-Id: <199801201332.NAA16934@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This month's Previews catalogue lists the B7 tapes as having "additional
footage". Anybody know is this means extra bits in the episodes, or is it
just the UK Gold interview intros, like the latest version of the Trek
original series tapes?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:01:31 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Richard Watts" <Richard.Watts@cl.cam.ac.uk>,
        "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-Id: <199801201332.NAA16930@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> >The plot was a load of tosh, though. 
> 
>  In the best traditions of Chris Boucher :-).

Er... I think you mean Allan Prior here! Boucher did the best episodes

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:00:42 -0000
From: "Dangermouse" <master@sol.co.uk>
To: "Judith Proctor" <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>,
        "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-Id: <199801201332.NAA16923@gnasher.sol.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> No, I'd have hated a PGP.  A PGP claiming to be canonial would fix too
many
> things that I prefer left unfixed.  My motives are purely selfish.  If
they
> had done a PGP without Blake, they would have continued in like vein if
they
> ever do another one.  If they stick to within the series, there's a
chance
> that they'll do a first or second season episode.

I doubt they'll ever do any more after this one...
 
> Bring Back Blake!

Hah! And if they did, they'd probably recast him too...
 
> > Hmm. This sounds like it might be a fun place for a honeymoon...
> 
> You are a man of amazing sagacity.  Find me at Deliverance or the Neutral
> Zone and I shall sell you two memberships with my own tender hands.
<smile>
> You know it's a nice hotel, you've stayed there before.

Sell? Don't you fancy having a genuine StarFury pilot? (not to mention Dr
Who/DS9/James Bond type guest?)

> PS.  If you have a pair of suspenders, than you may claim to be a man of
> infinite resource and sagacity.

Does this mean there is going to be a Rocky Horror night?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:08:56 -0000
From: "Heather Smith" <Heather.Smith@btinternet.com>
To: "Blake's 7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
Message-Id: <E0xuhGw-0006yE-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> I was thinking about the movie, particularly the REALLY irritating
> nonsense about the Doctor's being half-human a la Spock. I don't know
> whose idea THAT was, but I can't help but think some (young, very young)
> MBA type executive at Fox came up with it thinking that Dr. Who would be
> just too alien (and sophisticated) for American audiences.

Ah, well, If we're talking about that abomination they call 'the Fox TVM'
then yes, I see your point, not only that stupid half-human idea, but also
the sudden decision to replace the Chameleon circuit with a 'cloaking
device' Argggg!  Another 'dumbing down for American audiences' move, I
guess that same MBA type executive thought that your average Yank wouldn't
know what a Chameleon was. (not that I am accusing all Yank of being thick,
merely that US TV exec. folks are:-)).  (Oh dear, someone's now going to
saw "Excuse me, but *I'm* a YV exec.).

 Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith

'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish'
-The fourth Doctor  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:29:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Heartbeat
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0120162911-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1

Heartbeat - Sunday 25 January -  ITV 8.00

Gareth Thomas is in this episode, playing a farmer by the name of Nathaniel
Clegghorn.  (I gather he's a rather unpleasant character)

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:59:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0120105959-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1

If anyone wants to comment on the radio play - ie.  Love the cast, but
please could we have an intelligent script next time and Bring Back Blake!
then the address is:

Viewer and Listener Correspondance, BBC, Villiers House, The Broadway,
London, W5 2PA, England

I've just written a letter, though heaven knows if they'll actually listen. 
Still, they promise to answer written comments, so writing must
force them to read the letter.  And as the play is current <grin>, they
can't use the old excuse that they only want letters on current programmes.

Put your opinions on paper!

Judith

PS. I'm beginning to feel like Terry Wogan...

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:43:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] internet chat
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0120084300-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1

I finally got to see Paul's internet chat when a kind soul posted a copy to
Space City.  (Maybe someone ought to tell the beeb that there is such a
thing as a defined HTML standard and their page does not meet it...)

There was nothikng greatly unexpected about the chat apart from two small
bits that worried me.



>      nzfan asks: "The sci-fi writer, Tanith Lee, did some wonderful
>      scripts for "Blake's 7", any chance of any future "Blake's 7"
>      involving her?"

>      Paul Darrow: "I know her and I think she's a wonderful writer. She
>      wrote some superb stuff for "Blake's 7" and I would be delighted if
>      she wrote more for us."

>      Brian Lighthill: "If we're lucky enough to get another commission for
>      a one-off then out of loyalty I would naturally gravitate back to
>      Barry Letts. But if it was another series I would consider other
>      writers."

Do we really want another Barry Lett's script?  The script was the weakest
point of the production.  I'd cheerfully have gone with Chris Boucher (the
script editor who also wrote some of the most popular episodes) or Tanith
Lee.  Why couldn't they have used a writer who knew the series? Tanith Lee
has previous experience of writing SF for radio as well as having done two
B7 scripts.

I imagine one can write to Brian Lighthill care of the BBC.  Maybe some of
us need to put pen to paper... (politely)


     
>      Jamie asks: "Why didn't the radio-play follow on from the final
>      television episode. Isn't this something of a cop-out?"

>      Brian Lighthill:(laughing) "Yes it is a cop out. BUT I didn't want to
>      get into the discussion about whether the whole of the last episode
>      had been a dream, so I decided to pitch it between the penultimate
>      series and the last series. And if we ever do another one we'll pitch
>      it in the same place...probably."

Does he realise that the 4th season is probably the least popular overall? 
The catch is that he produced 'Gold' and 'Orbit' and thus is naturally drawn
towards the 4th season.  If we ever do get another radio play, I like to see
all the seasons given an equal chance.  After all, in Horizon's massive
character popularity survey (newsletter 30 and I believe 460 people
responsed to the survey), the order was Avon, Vila, Blake, Cally, Servalan,
Jenna, Tarrant, Orac, Travis 1, Dayna, Zen, Soolin, Gan, Travis 2, Slave.

Thus, if you wanted to pick the most popular crew, you'd probably have to
choose the second season.  Include Orac, lose Gan (though I'd personally
prefer to keep Gan as well).

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:11:06 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans
Message-ID: <To9U7LAawFx0EwxS@jajones.demon.co.uk>

In message <Megw.4799677@powell.fabrik.com>, PATTI McCLELLAN
<patti.mcclellan@kyl.com> writes
>     How about this shirt for Paul:
>
>          Front:  The Sevenfold Crown
>          Rear:   Not Bad For a First Draft
<cackle>
But add "of a Dr Who script".
-- 
Julia Jones

"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
        The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:18:43 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Message-ID: <V4TVfMAj3Fx0EwRE@jajones.demon.co.uk>

In message <34C416E8.47C7@geocities.com>, Pat Patera
<pussnboots@geocities.com> writes
>Ovina Maria Feldman wrote:
>> re: 
>> Pat Patera wrote:
>> > I think that when it comes to money making endeavors, men are more
>> > focused and more motivated...
>> 
>> This is so much BS... Historically, for the last 2500 years or so, men
>> have controlled the social and economics factors ...
>
>refer to top statement.
>Ann Landers said: "No one can be taken advantage of without their
>permission."
I'm going to use a very appropriate swear word here - bollocks.
I'm spot-on average height for my racial group - 163 cm tall (5 foot 4)
That means well over half the male population in my racial group is
bigger and stronger than me. Think about it.

<snip>
> Women who
>have everything going for them turn into "something else" when a baby
>comes along.
Yes, this does happen. But not to all women, and partly down to women
not having a choice - if the woman doesn't look after the baby, the man
certainly won't. Not being willing to neglect a baby is not the same as
brain being turned to mush by hormones, which is what I think you were
describing.
-- 
Julia Jones

"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
        The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:05:57 EST
From: E van Looy <EvanLooy@aol.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fanfic essay
Message-ID: <68491c40.34c511b7@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Pat P wrote:
<I postulate that it's the reverse of the typical male action story.
Everyone dashes about blowing things up (people and places, both) but
never say how they feel about killing things, losing a buddy, etc.
Feelings are not considered relevant to the story. It just takes up
valuable seconds that could be filled with an explosion.>
Exactly. In every male-buddies series worth its salt, at one time or another
you get the following scenario: One of our heros gets hurt badly, his best
friend is anguished, sends him off in an ambulance and swears: "I'll get the
bastards who did this to you." The rest of the episode is then devoted to our
able-bodied buddy expressing his shock and outrage through hunting down the
assailants and fighting with his superiors about his obsessive hunt.
In the meantime, our wounded hero is all alone in hospital, fighting for his
life. Does his best friend bring him grapes, tell him he's going to be just
fine, help him fill out the insurance papers, water the cat and feed the
plants? 
Hell no, he's off running around looking anguished. This, to a female, is very
unsatisfying. That's when we send off $20 to buy a zine which tells us what
really happened.
Elise

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:16:58 EST
From: E van Looy <EvanLooy@aol.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
Message-ID: <f22a4144.34c5144c@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-01-19 12:23:51 EST, you Fewox wrote:

<< My question is: What is the general attitude of fans of the show about
 that episode?  I can't think of a more unsatisfying ending than that but
 on the other hand its not the typical ending where everything gets
 neatly wrapped up in a tidy little package either. >>

I'll say this list's raison d'etre is that very episode. Blake's very
unsatisfactoriness still keeps B7 fandom going strong after all those years.
Tidy script writers work like contraceptives on fandom.

Elise

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:42:27 -0800
From: "J. I. Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re:[B7L]Sarcophagus
Message-ID: <34C58AC3.7E3C@dial.pipex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have just seen 'Sarcophagus' for the first time. Given everything I had 
read about this episode and the high regard in which Tanith Lee is held, 
I was a little disappointed.

It had its good bits - notably the scene between Avon and Cally at the 
end - but to be honest all that atmospheric dancing around at the start 
was at least twice as long as necessary IMO (thats the first time I have 
used one of these acronyms I must be getting the hang of things!)

Maybe its just me and I don't really go in for too much mysticism but I 
did feel that the plot was altogether too light.

Two points though :

I thought this episode was the strongest suggestion of an Avon /Cally 
"understanding". Not just the scene at the end but also one near the 
beginning when he is speaking to her in her cabin and she smiles and pats 
him on the shoulder.

It also highlighted the aimlessness of the crew at this point. They 
were intending to visit some indifferent asteroid and then visited the 
alien spaceship instead as a sort of 'Why not, it's something to do' 
venture.

Julie Horner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:05:34 -0800
From: "J. I. Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
Message-ID: <34C5821E.209@dial.pipex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Pat Patera wrote:
> 
> Avon's Angels?
> Yes, that line was trite. But as you'll recall, in the transcripts, PD
> mentioned the B7 script he wrote, (the one with the *terrible* title:
> Man of Iron - (even Sly Stallone wouldn't touch that one!) 
> 

Man of Iron?

That reminds me of the time on our school German exchange when we were 
taken around a ball bearing factory and shown an informational film, 
translated into English, with the title 'Balls of Steel'. Collapse into 
helpless laughter all of the third year.

Sorry, that was totally irrelevant and unnecessary.

Julie Horner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:25:59 -0800
From: "J. I. Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
Message-ID: <34C586E7.3A5@dial.pipex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<"Carry On Blake" - now there's a thought. Kenneth Williams as Avon,
certainly, but I'm torn between Sid James and Charles Hawtrey for Blake.
>

So Barbara Windsor must be Jenna but isn't Hattie Jacques a bit big to be 
Cally?

Julie Horner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:59:24 -0800
From: "J. I. Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-ID: <34C580AC.C75@dial.pipex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Iain Coleman wrote:
Iain said :
> 
> OK, the bottom line.
> 
> I don't know whether to buy this or not, so I want to get it into
> perspective by comparing it to the worst B7 stuff I've spent money on for
> the sake of completeness.
> 
> Is "Sevenfold Crown" better or worse than "Stardrive/Animals"?
> 

At £8.99 (or less from Horizon) how bad does it have to be? Surely the 
more people who buy the tape the more encouragement it is to repeat the 
experiment ?

Incidentally I haven't heard it yet because I was out on Saturday and my 
tapes haven't arrived from the BBC yet so I have no idea how good/bad it 
is.

Julie Horner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:04:56 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] editing on Volcano/DotG tape?
Message-Id: <E0xulXB-0000bh-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Julia J hoped, about Avon boxing someone's ears:
> Maybe the people who are re-releasing the videos should be encouraged to
> use the original broadcast version, including the above

No! Even more unlikely nowdays. Remember the first "You've Been Tangoed"
ad, where the clown sneaks up on the man-on-the-street and assaults him
with a huge rubber hand? That was changed pretty sharpish to the man
getting kissed when it was alleged that kids were now doing it to people
(without investing in the giant rubber hand first) and doing damage.

Sorry to the non-Brits who have no idea what I'm on about.


Tom Forsyth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:34:41 +0000
From: Richard Watts <Richard.Watts@cl.cam.ac.uk>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-Id: <E0xunBp-0001qr-00@canada.cl.cam.ac.uk>

On Tue 20 January 1998, master@sol.co.uk
<master@sol.co.uk> wrote:

>
>> >The plot was a load of tosh, though. 
>> 
>>  In the best traditions of Chris Boucher :-).
>
>Er... I think you mean Allan Prior here! Boucher did the best episodes

 ... but his plots weren't exactly original ...


Richard.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:26:41 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
Message-Id: <E0xulXR-0000bh-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Pat P mused:
> I disagree that Blakes 7 was not a good title, even if Blake did
> disappear.

I thought it was great - it made the series even more different from the
usual stuff on TV at the time. I was a young lad and I heard about this
wierd series called "Blake's 7" where there were only 5 of then, and none
of them were called Blake. Now if that doesn't wrench you away from the
Flumps and Space:1999, even for a quick look, nothing will.


Tom Forsyth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:30:19 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #16
Message-Id: <E0xulXW-0000bh-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Penny wondered:
> OK...what kind of slogan can we come up with for a t-shirt for our
> greying friends?
> I gave my dad a "60 and sexy" shirt some years back, but these fellas
> aren't there yet, are they?
> 
> "Grey to stay?"  <G>

"Glad to be Grey"
"Increasing Gravitas"
"Born Before TV"
"Getting His Third Leg" (Riddle of the Sphynx knob joke)
"Licence to Gripe"
"More Memory Than Your PC"
"Zimmer's Angels"


Any of those tickle your fancy?


Tom Forsyth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:09:58 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Heartbeat
Message-ID: <h$WoOJA2CSx0EwHi@jajones.demon.co.uk>

In message <Marcel-1.09-0120162911-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>, Judith
Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes
>Heartbeat - Sunday 25 January -  ITV 8.00

Day before my birthday - what a nice present :-)
>
>Gareth Thomas is in this episode, playing a farmer by the name of Nathaniel
>Clegghorn.  (I gather he's a rather unpleasant character)

-- 
Julia Jones

"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
        The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:34:10 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
Message-Id: <E0xulXg-0000bh-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Gwynn Shamlin wrote:
> ...it would
> have been more effective seeing the crew fall one at a time over a period
> of time, whether than all together at once.  It would have been nice to
> see more interaction between Blake and the Scorpio crew as well.  Perhaps
> them joining him and Avon wrongly being suspicious and then committing
> the act.  I don't know, it just seemed a bit rushed.

Actually, I liked it the way it was. From the moment Tarrant walked in, the
shocks just kept coming harder and faster.

- Hooray! Tarrant's back.
- Oh cool - Blake and Avon have finally met after all these years.
- Oh no - Tarrant's got it all wrong.
- Oh my god - Avon believes him!
- Argh! Blake's just making it worse instead of better - just shut up!
- No! Avon you muppet!
- Oh no - a Federation spy!
- She shot Dayna!
- Vila can fight?!?!
- Everyone's getting shot!!!
- Avon's gone completely fruitloop now.
- What do you mean the end?!?!?!??!?!

There you go - a thrill every few seconds. Why stretch it out over a
three-episode special?


Tom Forsyth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:31:43 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-Id: <E0xulXK-0000bh-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Richard W waffled:
>  Oh, mumble mumble morphogenic field mumble teleport mumble. Actually,
> I think this fits in quite well with the link between teleportation
> and telekinesis. 

Erm... as much as it fits in with anything, of course! :-)

>  I note that you'd only need to be able to move something a couple of
> um to kill a scorpio gun (they're electronically fired). Now, if someone
> had had a pistol...

Stuff pistols - if you're going up against anyone with only medium TK (i.e.
not enough to simply lift you off the ground and then drop you onto
something spikey), what you really want is a four by two with a rusty nail
in it. Disable _that_ with a few micro-Newtons, you brainiac showoff!

>  Indeed. Then again, B7's a very personal show in a way that no-one
> else seems to have been able to match: you get the feeling that you
> could actually talk to the characters down the pub and find them
> believable, as opposed to DS9 or B5: I can't really visualise 
> Sheridan going into a pub and not trying to defeat the evil forces
> of the brewery, drive the bikers out of the table in the corner, and
> ordering the pool table to break and attack...

Ah, it's not that bad. I can see Marcus playing a round of pool anytime.
Though he'd probably insist on using his staff instead of a proper cue and
keep ripping the cloth.

Tom Forsyth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:32:15 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Steven Donaldson
Message-Id: <E0xulXd-0000bh-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Pat P wailed:
> Years ago, when the first Covenant "White Gold" book came out, it was
> much talked about. That was the only book of his I ever read, for I
> found it depressing and disgusting. Talk about an anti-hero! After
> spending some hours with his protagonist, (Thomas?) who was uniformly
> depressed and unhappy, and brutally raped some young woman who just
> happened to cross his path, I never wanted to hear from either Thomas or
> Steven again.

Ah, but he pays. And pays. And pays. And pays again. He's a complete
bastard to begin with, and he knows it. It's great (though painful)
watching him save the world time after time (largely by fluke), having
everyone praising him as a demi-god, and he just keeps obsessing about all
the crappy things he's done to the people of the land. And then, just as
he's almost make peace with himself and figured that he might just about
have paid back his debt to the land, it gets completely trashed in the
second trilogy, almost beyond saving. And he has to do it all again, except
this time everyone thinks he's the devil incarnate. So he pays a bit more.

In no possible way can Donaldson be accused of being a misogynist (though I
would say that, I suppose :-).

If you don't want to wade through that (wonderful though it is, it is heavy
going, though not as bad as Lord of the Rings - I gave up on that a third
of the way through), try the Mordant's Need pair of books (bilogy?)*. Much
more fun, even a couple of laughs, really tight plotting, good characters,
loads of action, a bloke with cool weapons and power armour, some swords
and sorcery (but no elves) and the women are almost universally smarter
than the men. Oh, and they're about a third the thickness of the Covenant
books.

Oops. Better move this to the spin list - it's got nothing to do with B7.


Tom Forsyth.


* "The Mirror of Her Dreams" and "A Man Rides Through", though I've
forgotten which is the first of the two.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:23:20 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Claypit People
Message-Id: <E0xulXG-0000bh-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Pat P said:
> > 7) Gravity, climate, topography and vegetation are all unremarkable.
> > Nothing merits attention until everyone gawps at the double sunset.
> Most planets with survivable "Earthlike conditions" would be - well,
> Earthlike. Actually, our vegetation and beaches are quite spendidly
> remarkable - it's just their familiarity that makes them seem mundane.

I don't know - what's wrong with a planet whose hottest zones are barely
above the melting point of water? For that matter, why do all planets have
to be either "ice planets" (Hoth) or "desert planets" (Tattoine) or "jungle
planets" (Endor). We have all three on our humble little globe.

The one thing that would definately vary on other planets, even after
millenia of terraforming, is its gravity. Unless you cover the planet in
gravity generators/nullifiers (very expensive!), you can't change this
much. I'm sure humans could survive on up to 2G quite well, though they'd
have to be quite well-built humans (of course, humans born there would be
naturally well-built) and they'd suffer bad back trouble, but they could
live there. And of course humans can survive for ages in less than 1G.
Anything more than 0.25G and the more worrying effects of zero-g would be
removed, and if you're not going to go anywhere else, you're not worried
about thin bones and weak muscles.

I'm sure there are ways to make sure your 0.3G planet still has enough
oxygen to breathe in (rather than floating away into space).

> I'll say about fanfic in general what's often said of slash: if you
> don't like it, (Neil), don't read it.

But it's like a lot of things - most of any particular story is good, it's
just the little (and often fairly easily fixed) things that annoy. I'm sure
a lot of people on this list are fairly scientific, and cringe at some of
the things said in canon that are not actually necessary for the plot at
all. Trek does this terribly of course. When people vaguely mention that a
planet's surface is at -290 degrees, I weep. It's not even a plot device!


Tom Forsyth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:41:28 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] More Steven Donaldson
Message-Id: <E0xulXj-0000bh-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jenni O asked:
> I also
> find that he has a fairly small selection of personalities to choose
> from (what is the real difference between Nick Succorso and Angus
> Thermopile?) and they seem fairly simillar in many ways to Thomas
> Covenant himself. 

I'm not sure about this, actually. I do agree with you in some respects,
though. Yes, SD's not all that great at writing the internal "mind-talk" of
people, and they all seem to come out like Covenant, but what they _do_ is
very different. So what he says they think seems to have the same sort of
phrasing and come out the same way, so it sounds as if the same person is
"speaking", but I think this is just SD not being very good at desribing
internals. But their actions show them to be very different people.

Angus is obsessed with self-preservation, he hates feelings (i.e. he's
worried about having any), he's fundamentally a coward, but he does what he
has to to survive. So it's Vila with Avon's hangups and internal struggles
over emotions, despite his distaste for them (whereas Vila just doesn't
care most of the time, or gets drunk and that solves that).

Nick, on the other hand, is a cocky, manipulating egomaniac who has a huge
amount of innate talent, knows it, and so cruises through life. But when he
slips up, he does so in major ways. Reminds me a fair bit of Blake (his
talent being charisma, and guess where he slipped up on that!), but mostly
of Travis. He is similarly motivated by revenge after a humiliation that
left visible scars. They both hover on the borderline of legality.

Covenant has Vila's talent for being utterly bewildered most of the time,
and muddling through, and somehow becoming the hero every now and then when
it matters (most notably in Ultraworld - or would we rather forget?). But
mostly he just buggers up everyone else's life. Vila drinks to forget this
and pretends he doesn't care, but Covenant's known for a long time that you
can't run away from this sort of thing, or it eats you up when you're not
looking (his leprosy). He's far more inward-looking than any of the B7 crew
(except maybe some peoples' interpretations of Avon, though even then in a
different way).

> It's not that I don't like his books - I've got
> everything he's written, and have read them several times - It's just
> that they don't live and breath to me. (Saltheart Foamfollower is the
> only exception - maybe he was based on someone SD knew?)

Yes, I agree. It's been too long since I read the Covenant books, but
Saltheart was written as a genuinely different character, and indeed the
whole episode with the giants seemed to be more hopeful than the rest of
the book(s) - and indeed a large chunk of giant stuff was removed and
published later in the book of short stories whose name escapes me. Wonder
why - it's almost as if he wrote it while on holiday, then later decided
its tone didn't fit very well!

Well, this is almost about B7, but it might have to go to the spin list
too.


Tom Forsyth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:42:15 -0000
From: "Tom Forsyth" <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
To: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-Id: <E0xuoLD-00036c-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Richard W wrote:
> > >The plot was a load of tosh, though. 
> > 
> >  In the best traditions of Chris Boucher :-).
 
To which Dangermouse replied:
> Er... I think you mean Allan Prior here! Boucher did the best episodes

Boucher did the best _dialogue_, and this sometimes lead to a good ep all
round. _Plots_ he tends to leave to other people (though he can do them
when he really wants to - he just doesn't really want to very often).


Tom Forsyth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:09:46 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Message-ID: <34C558EA.B32771D6@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Julia Jones wrote:
> 
> In message <34C416E8.47C7@geocities.com>, Pat Patera
> <pussnboots@geocities.com> writes
> >Ovina Maria Feldman wrote:
> >> re:
> >> Pat Patera wrote:
> >> > I think that when it comes to money making endeavors, men are more
> >> > focused and more motivated...
> >>
> >> This is so much BS... Historically, for the last 2500 years or so, men
> >> have controlled the social and economics factors ...
> >
> >refer to top statement.
> >Ann Landers said: "No one can be taken advantage of without their
> >permission."
> I'm going to use a very appropriate swear word here - bollocks.
> I'm spot-on average height for my racial group - 163 cm tall (5 foot 4)
> That means well over half the male population in my racial group is
> bigger and stronger than me. Think about it.
> 
> <snip>
> > Women who have everything going for them turn into "something else" when a baby
> >comes along.
> 
Julia wrote:
>Yes, this does happen. But not to all women, and partly down to women
> not having a choice - if the woman doesn't look after the baby, the man
> certainly won't. Not being willing to neglect a baby is not the same as
> brain being turned to mush by hormones, which is what I think you were
> describing.

I would just like to add that having a biological instinct or social
obligation (male or female) to care for a child does not preclude a
focus and motivation (whether emotionally or intellectually inspired) to
make money or pursue a business or intellectual career... It may be
choice -- as in our current social environment, or it may be something
that is enforced by law or custom -- as was the common practice even 30
years ago to assume that when a woman married or had a child that she
would stop working and give up her career/job. It wasn't that long ago
that as a woman, if you married, you could just be fired; there was
nothing you could do legally under the circumstances.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:16:31 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Claypit People
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980120201532.00d60460@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Tom Forsyth wrote:

>Trek does this terribly of course. When people vaguely mention that a
>planet's surface is at -290 degrees, I weep. It's not even a plot 
>device!

Just to give them the benefit of the doubt -- if it was Trek they were
probably speaking in Fahrenheit, in which case -290 is nippy but doable.

--
	- Lisa
	  <lcw@dallas.net>
	  <lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
	  Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jan 1998 08:50:26 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Claypit People
Message-ID: <iszpkq6zb1.fsf@godzilla.kiere.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net> writes:

> Just to give them the benefit of the doubt -- if it was Trek they were
> probably speaking in Fahrenheit, in which case -290 is nippy but doable.

If I'm thinking about the same Trek episode Tom is, they firmly nailed
down the idiocy by commenting on the fact that it was below absolute
zero. And then ignoring it for the rest of series, of course.
-- 
		    Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin
       qdtcall@esavionics.se  http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/

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End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #19
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