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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 162
Today's Topics:
RE: [B7L] Travis.
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Re: [B7L] .. and more B7 drinks (fwd)
Fwd: [B7L] Criminals
[B7L] Avon
[B7L] Blake's dark side
Re: [B7L] Criminals
Re: [B7L] Criminals
[B7L] Timelash Video available in US
RE: [B7L] Avon
[B7L] Ref: Criminals
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
[B7L] "Assassin" comments
RE: [B7L] "Assassin" comments
[B7L] Hair
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #160
Re: [B7L] Criminals
Re: [B7L] Blake's dark side
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
[B7L] Re: Travis
[B7L] Contemplating Avon and Blake
Re: [B7L] B7L re Avon
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Re: [B7L] Criminals
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:11:27 +-200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Travis.
Message-Id: <01BD9471.4A3F0020@cmg71700449>
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> Avon actually. I like my heroes to have a dark side as well as the
> bad guys. Blake, has a dark side, but he's too much an idealist for
> my taste.
My favourite glimpse of Blake's dark side was in Breakdown. Instead of
threatening to kill Kayn, he promises to destroy his hands if he fails to
save Gan.
That's the thing about being sensitive. If you're sensitive, you can
detect people's vulnerabilities, and you don't have to choose to avoid
them. Avon couldn't have done anything as heartless as that, which is why
he gave Blake a look of genuine admiration just afterwards. :-)
[Jacqueline Thijsen] I think Avon is mainly interesting because he wants to be a bad guy, but can't help being a good guy (and because of his looks, especially the leather). IMHO, some of the best scenes with him in it are about that conflict within him.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:07:47 PDT
From: "Heather Listwon" <mrs_cake@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Message-ID: <19980610140747.23736.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
I have a very dirty Mind!
Love
Heather
mrs_cake@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:20:12 +0100 (BST)
From: Rob Clother <rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] .. and more B7 drinks (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980610151851.5480A-100000@mobius>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Forwarded from Heather Listwon:
>
> Hello - >Can anyone join in?
>
> OK - My Turn,
>
> Avon has to be a Margeuita - All that bitter lime and salt tempering the
> deliciously smooth intoxicating liquid if you dip your tongue further
> below the surface.
>
> To be sipped and savoured - gulping only mars the taste.
>
>
> Yours truly
>
> Heather
> mrs_cake@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:43:23 EDT
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Subject: Fwd: [B7L] Criminals
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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:50:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
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I've been having an interesting conversation off-list and I think some of the
points are worth bringing back here.
The series managed to include characters like Egrorian and Pindar and also hit
grit with Blake's original conviction for child molesting.
Gareth once told me that the charge of child molesting against Blake was the
reason that the series wasn't shown in the US for many years after it was
screened in the UK. Does anyone know if that's true?
Export markets are possibly another reason (apart from censorship at home) why
characters like Egrorian were never explitly stated to be gay.
It's interesting to note that the series completely ignored that charge of
child
molesting and yet realistically it should have come back to haunt Blake.
Child
molesters in jail are frequent targets of attacks by other inmates. Did the
other prisoners on the London all believe Blake to have been framed? Was his
charisma such that he managed to convince them of his innocence or were they
all
in holding cells at the time of his trial and unaware of what he was suposed
to
have done?
IN fact the same level of acceptance applies to all the crew. Their pasts
never
prove a hindrance. When the young surgeon in 'Breakdown' recognises Jenna,
he's
delighted. I guess smugglers had glamour as they often have had historically.
In many ways, I can understand resistance leaders not baulking at working with
a
fraudster, a murderer, a thief a smuggler and an alien. They probably had
some
of the same in their own ranks. A convicted child-molester though? Alta
Morag
chose well when she picked a crime to destroy Blake with. Can you imagine the
reaction if a leading political figure today was accused of that? I don't
think
he'd ever recover.
How did Blake survive? When he says 'I'm Roj Blake, you may have heard of
me',
why does nobody say 'You bastard'?
Not only does the series ignore this issue, but fanfic does too. I'd be hard
put to think of three stories that pick up on it. You can see why of course.
It's not a topic that many people would want to put into a story.
Any yet, if the series was never going to mention the topic again, why
introduce
it in the first place? I think it was a bold move to accuse Blake of
something
so controversial. Or would it simply have become a dull repetative topic
(much
as forever failing to find Blake might have been if the third series had gone
that way) with Blake having to try and prove his innocence over and over again
to every person he met?
I think 'Voice From the Past' is the only episode that mentions Blake's trial
at
all and even then, I wouldn't swear that it mentions what he was accused of,
only that the trial was faked.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:54:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Rob Clother <rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Avon
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.96.980610162320.7569A-100000@pde4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> [Jacqueline Thijsen] I think Avon is mainly interesting because
> he wants to be a bad guy, but can't help being a good guy (and
> because of his looks, especially the leather). IMHO, some of the
> best scenes with him in it are about that conflict within him.
I almost agree. Avon is a character with a major contradiction: his
loyalty to his crew clashes with his uncompromising cynicism. I think
there's a part of him that desperately wants to believe in a cause the way
Blake did. Perhaps Jenna's statement, "Some dreams are worth having"
(Space Fall), touched him more deeply than he would have cared to admit.
It all seemed to come out in Terminal -- "Sometimes your simple-minded
certainties would have proved refreshing" or something along those lines.
And then there was the way he reacted to Servalan's betrayal. He never
forgave her. She'd betrayed him indirectly before, in the sense that she
must have been involved at some high level with Anna/Bartholomew. But the
Blake incident was much more direct, and much more personal. Servalan had
seen how important Blake was to Avon, and she had seen why. Anna was
someone Avon loved; Blake was someone he believed in. In the end, the
loss of the former wasn't anything like as devastating as the loss of the
latter.
So you see, I can only partly go along with "Avon wants to be a bad guy"
-- deep down, he wants to be like Blake, but on the surface, he wants
to look like a heartless cynic. It's his method of defence against
shattered dreams.
-- Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:05:18 EDT
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake's dark side
Message-ID: <19980610.090235.2255.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
Rob Clothier wrote:
My favourite glimpse of Blake's dark side was in Breakdown. Instead of
threatening to kill Kayn, he promises to destroy his hands if he fails to
save Gan.
That's the thing about being sensitive. If you're sensitive, you can
detect people's vulnerabilities, and you don't have to choose to avoid
them. Avon couldn't have done anything as heartless as that, which is
why
he gave Blake a look of genuine admiration just afterwards. :-)
-- Rob
Agreed. If you happen to be an idealist, (like me,) you are very
sensitive to others needs and vulnerabilities. If you use you innate
sense to go for other people's throats, it makes you a very formidable
enemy. Just push the buttons too long and that's it, no more
understanding punching bag. You're dead meat, humus and all that.
Also, referring back to Keirsey's "Portrait of Temperments", Idealists
tend to be able to turn very quickly from friend to foe, and once a foe,
watch out. Of course, I have spent my entire life toning down my mean
streak, but when it snaps, boy, does it. I can be as cold, removed and
nasty as the situation needs.
Another example of Blake's dark side was when he refused to kill Travis
in "Gambit." He knew that it was what Travis was begging for...but he
refused to comply. He denied him of death, and Travis was unable to kill
himself, or he'd have been dead.
Peace,
Penny
PS...Ophelia...you're in my thoughts, babe. One invalid to another.
_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:11:09 -0500
From: "Reuben Herfindahl" <reuben@reuben.net>
To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals
Message-ID: <00a101bd948a$61c48a30$660114ac@misnt>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Date: Monday, June 08, 1998 7:00 PM
Subject: [B7L] Criminals
>Any yet, if the series was never going to mention the topic again, why
>introduce
>it in the first place? I think it was a bold move to accuse Blake of
>something
>so controversial. Or would it simply have become a dull repetative topic
>(much
>as forever failing to find Blake might have been if the third series had
gone
>that way) with Blake having to try and prove his innocence over and over
again
>to every person he met?
>
>I think 'Voice From the Past' is the only episode that mentions Blake's
trial
>at
>all and even then, I wouldn't swear that it mentions what he was accused
of,
>only that the trial was faked.
>
I think the point it wasn't taken too seriously is that Blake had been
(prior to having his memory wiped) a figurehead for the resistance that when
captured condemned what he had stood for. In the Way Back it is mentioned
as part of the motivation for framing him instead of just killing him that
many believed his first trial was faked, although the charge of Child
Molestation is terrible, in the eyes of the public many may have believed it
was simply another effort to discredit Blake.
On a totally separate issue I think it's interesting that issues that fan
fic ignores was brought up. Maybe it's just because I'm too new to this,
but I've never seen any pre Way Back Blake fan fic. I think it would be
fascinating.
Reuben
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:52:51 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0610075251-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Tue 09 Jun, Alison Page wrote:
> Judith said -
>
> > In many ways, I can understand resistance leaders not baulking at working
> > with a fraudster, a murderer, a thief a smuggler and an alien. They
> > probably had some of the same in their own ranks. A convicted
> > child-molester though? Alta Morag chose well when she picked a crime to
> > destroy Blake with. Can you imagine the reaction if a leading political
> > figure today was accused of that? I don't think he'd ever recover.
>
> I agree - everyone must have known it was a frame or Blake would have had
> no credibility at all.
>
> I note that Daniel Ortega (leader of the Sandinistas) is currently under
> suspicion for child abuse. And, indeed, it is destroying him politically,
> and quite right too. I liked him before.
You're almost destroying your own argument here. I know virtually nothing about
Ortega as I don't follow the news much, but how would you know whether is is
innocent or being framed? I'm not saying that he is innocent, simply that we
probably have about as much chance of making an accurate assessemt of the
situation as Federation citizens would have of judging Blake's situation.
We're really at the mercy of the media, and the older I get, the more cynical I
get about the media although I do regard some parts of it as far more reliable
than others.
Judith
PS. Slightly off topic, but I remember a piece of advice I once heard. If you
become newsworthy for any reason, never sell your story as an exclusive. The
other papers will rip you to shreds. If they can't have your side of the story,
they'll gleefully print the other side.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:15:20 -0600
From: CHERYL_MARKS@HP-LakeStevens-om2.om.hp.com
TO: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Timelash Video available in US
Message-Id: <H00008030d926352@MHS>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-0eb24bbd-00000001"
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The latest Video Catalog, 1-800-733-2232, has the Dr. Who's Timelash episode
available for
$19.99. Item number 62856.
Cheryl
********************************************************************************
*
* Cheryl Marks Email: cherylm@lsid.hp.com
* "Some days you're the dog; some days you're the hydrant." -- Unknown
********************************************************************************
**
--openmail-part-0eb24bbd-00000001
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:15:48 -0700
From: "McClellan, Patti" <Patti.McClellan@kyl.com>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Avon
Message-ID: <724E3F96E7EAD111AC40006008A7060E078672@KYLMAIL>
Content-Type: text/plain
Rob has hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. That's Avon.
And the extra torture is that he's not unaware of the problem, IMO.
I've been incredibly, horribly immersed in RL and absent from this list
for a while. But this drew me back in. To me, the best part of fourth
season Avon is his growing conviction that he's on he verge of losing
his mind and taking the rest of the crew with him. And indeed, he did,
I suppose. And as always, it's entirely possible no one else saw that
in Paul's performance. Diversity is life.
In another matter, this is a public apology to whomever it was I had
that over-sharp disagreement with about smoking. Nothing is worth
getting that upset about on this list. Sorry.
Patti
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:11:24 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Ref: Criminals
Message-ID: <5f43c3b9.357ee870@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Durn, forwarded Judith's message instead of sending my reply. Amazing what
30 hours without sleep does. Let's try again.
I think one of the reasons that Blake does not seem to suffer the expected
stigma over his charges is that the Federation is so corrupt at this point
that only the most closed-minded or sheltered individuals can ignore what is
happening. Thus a " if the Federation said he did it he must be innocent"
attitude.
On the other hand, how often did the crew deal with outsiders who would be
inclined to believe the Federation? Avalon's people wouldn't, Sarkoff might
not have been aware of the exact charges( with Blake's first trial more likely
to be known to him)? In Killer, the greeting he got was interesting too. Of
course, this was by a first rate scientist who chose relative exile over
working with the Federation, apparantly.
The situation on the London is even more intriguing. True criminals rarely
have a fondness for political prisoners; after all politics might change and a
former prisoner may end up in charge, while the criminal lingers on. So even
if they were cynical enough to not believe the charges, I'd expect that they'd
use it as an excuse to abuse Blake. An Alpha, and a child abuser!
The only things I can see that might have saved Blake was 1) the prisoner's
sex drive were all but nulled by the suppressents and 2) Blake's clique was
the biggest around. Certainly it was during this time that Gan earned his
place on the Liberator, defending Blake, Jenna, and even Avon.(subthread; did
Avon read Blake's protection of him via Gan et.al. as a debt he hadn't repaid,
even if it were unasked for help?) After 4 months, I would expect most of the
people who are around Blake eventually realize he indeed is not guilty of the
crime indicated.
Very intriguing thread here. Thanks for bringing it up Judith. Deborah
Rose
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 19:33:58 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0610183358-354Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Wed 10 Jun, Julia Jones wrote:
> When I first watched it, I was Young (15) and... well, sufficiently
> Innocent that such a subtext would not have sprung to my mind unless it
> was really there.
>
> No, I'm not being facetious. I really don't think I would have noticed
> it unless I was *supposed* to. I can remember thinking something along
> the lines of "Did I just see what I thought I saw? No, can't be, it's
> the BBC."
The key to deciding whether it is deliberate or not is to look at the writer.
Robert Holmes wrote 'Orbit', 'Gambit' and 'Killer'.
He thus gave us Egrorian and Pindar, and also Krantor and Toise, and also Tynus.
Although I've never seen Tynus as gay myself, many people do read him that way.
Robert Holmes also had a real gift for writing scenes with Avon and Vila
together. The scene in 'Gambit' in the teleport bay where they are plotting how
to take out the Big Wheel is a particular favourite of mine. Actually, all his
episodes are among my favourites. Original plots with good twists; characters
like Dr Bellfriar; lovely dialogue. His only real weakness was that he rarely
gave the women much to do.
Judith
PS. has somebody changes the list default while Calle's away? It seems to be
set on 'reply to list' rather than its usualy 'reply to sender'.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:59:55 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] "Assassin" comments
Message-ID: <19980610225956.9635.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Pat Patera says:
Surely a woman who worked such an "edgy"
profession would be flamboyant during those moments she came out of
hiding. As flamboyant as Servalan: I expect that's why Servie liked
her.
And indeed, Servie *did* like Cancer - even called her "a credit to our
sex". (I can't remember Servalan ever honestly complimenting anyone
else). I like to imagine the two of them, chummy at the bar, laughing
over their past atrocities, each trying to top the other, aka guys'
playing at one upmanship.
Hmm, I can see the latter, but not for very long. You're not seriously
suggesting Servalan would tolerate anything remotely resembling a rival?
:)
Regards
Jo MacQueen
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:08:51 -0700
From: "McClellan, Patti" <Patti.McClellan@kyl.com>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] "Assassin" comments
Message-ID: <724E3F96E7EAD111AC40006008A7060E078675@KYLMAIL>
Content-Type: text/plain
To me the worst thing about the whole episode was Cancer's voice.
Shrill and high-pitched, I quickly turned down the volume. And then
there was her dress sense...or lack thereof.
Patti
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:09:35 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Hair
Message-ID: <19980610230935.27166.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Lindley says: Puffy, mousy hair just isn't my thing, especially when
looks like it has been subjected to so much hair lacquer and blow-drying
it must feel like glue-coated wire. Urgh.
To a certain extent, it was always like that. It only moved in high wind
areas like Terminal.
Regards
Jo MacQueen
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:08:18 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #160
Message-ID: <19980611000818.28498.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Julia says: Even if it was blatently obvious that that was the general
idea. It was technically possible for the BBC to deny that that was what
they had intended, it's just the National Viewers and Listeners
Association collective dirty mind
There are, of course, all the people, including my 12-year-old self, who
would have missed it altogether. But much as I don't like the idea (I
don't think Egrorian was any better looking in previous years, unless
you like clowns), it is a more likely pairing than Krantor and Toise,
but only because I can't see Krantor having any sort of relationship
with anyone other than that mirror of his.
Regards
Jo MacQueen
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 19:26:31 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals
Message-Id: <Version.32.19980610185732.00dec630@dallas.net>
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Judith Proctor wrote:
>Gareth once told me that the charge of child molesting against Blake was the
>reason that the series wasn't shown in the US for many years after it was
>screened in the UK. Does anyone know if that's true?
Wonder where that idea originated. I would say it was very, *very*
unlikely. We're talking about a charge which was clearly shown to be false,
was mentioned briefly in one (1) episode, and was then never heard of
again. And it's not like child molesting isn't mentioned in TV shows here.
I would guess that it wasn't a hot property here because potential buyers
figured (and rightly) that it would have a pretty limited market in the US
and hence might not be profitable. And there are always the logistics of
red tape to slow things down; I have no idea what the BBC was asking for it
(or even when they made it available), or what kind of negotiations went on.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@ti.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:16:05 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's dark side
Message-ID: <357F2FD6.19F5@jps.net>
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> Also, referring back to Keirsey's "Portrait of Temperments", Idealists
> tend to be able to turn very quickly from friend to foe, and once a foe,
> watch out. Of course, I have spent my entire life toning down my mean
> streak, but when it snaps, boy, does it. I can be as cold, removed and
> nasty as the situation needs.
>
I knew there was a reason I'm cautious about Idealists, besides their
tendancy not to be cautious enough.
Avona
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:26:21 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Lysator List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Message-ID: <357F323E.4F5F@jps.net>
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Judith Proctor wrote:
>
> On Wed 10 Jun, Julia Jones wrote:
>
> > When I first watched it, I was Young (15) and... well, sufficiently
> > Innocent that such a subtext would not have sprung to my mind unless it
> > was really there.
> >
> > No, I'm not being facetious. I really don't think I would have noticed
> > it unless I was *supposed* to. I can remember thinking something along
> > the lines of "Did I just see what I thought I saw? No, can't be, it's
> > the BBC."
>
> The key to deciding whether it is deliberate or not is to look at the writer.
>
> Robert Holmes wrote 'Orbit', 'Gambit' and 'Killer'.
>
> He thus gave us Egrorian and Pindar, and also Krantor and Toise, and also Tynus.
>
> Although I've never seen Tynus as gay myself, many people do read him that way.
>
> Robert Holmes also had a real gift for writing scenes with Avon and Vila
> together. The scene in 'Gambit' in the teleport bay where they are plotting how
> to take out the Big Wheel is a particular favourite of mine. Actually, all his
> episodes are among my favourites. Original plots with good twists; characters
> like Dr Bellfriar; lovely dialogue. His only real weakness was that he rarely
> gave the women much to do.
>
> Judith
Interesting. I'd never noticed that particular pattern before... given
the way he writes the men, then, it's not surprising if he overlooks the
women.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 03:23:00 GMT
From: s.thompson8@genie.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Travis
Message-Id: <199806110331.DAA13034@rock103.genie.net>
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Katrina, have you read Alice Aldridge's excellent Travis stories? Just in
case you're interested, here are the ones I know about:
Aldridge, Alice
Alice C. Aldridge, "Necessary Sacrifices" (part 1 of 3; alt-
S2, post-Pressure Point; J/Tr), ROADS NOT TAKEN (US, 1991)
Alice Aldridge, "The Best Revenge" (part 2 of 3; sequel to
"Necessary Sacrifices" in ROADS NOT TAKEN; alt-S3; J/Tr), GAMBIT
#10 (US, 1993.6)
Alice Aldridge, "The Oath" (S0; Tr/ocf), ZEN & THE ART OF
REBELLION #3 (US, 1994)
Alice Aldridge, "Queen's Gambit" (part 3 of 3; alt-S3; J/Tr),
GAMBIT #11 (US, 1994.3)
Alice Aldridge, "Picking Up the Pieces" (alt-S3; J/Tr series),
GAMBIT #12 (US, 1994.11)
Alice Aldridge, "Shattered Reflections" (S2; Tr), GAMBIT #13
(US, 1995.8)
Alice Aldridge, "Snowblind" (S2; B-Tr), GAMBIT #14 (US,
1996.11)
Alice C. Aldridge, "Agent of Ruin" (S0; Ta-Tr-Se), SOUTHERN
SEVEN #11 (US, 1998.5)
Also, I think that a 1981 fan novel by Monica Mitchell, =Thomas Wolfe Was
Right=, may be about pre-series Travis, but I haven't been able to find a
copy of the zine.
Sarah T.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:31:38 +1100
From: Pat Fenech <P.Fenech@library.usyd.edu.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Contemplating Avon and Blake
Message-Id: <199806110533.HAA08168@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
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Hello everyone <g>
As ever I am behind in my list reading - and trying to catch up I discover I
am missing an Avon discussion, Pat! Pat! an Avon discussion <g> and so in
line with good intentions of posting occasionally and because I can never
deny myself the enjoyment of contemplating Avon I thought to have a word or
three, or four...
Jane Elizabeth on June 5
___________________
said: '...Even with badly cut hair he has a presence on the screen that can
make you look at him in the background even if there is something important
going on with the other characters...'
<g> ah, indeed <g> he is most noticeable even fiddling wordlessly with his
laser probe he looks interesting - and meaningful <g> - or something <g>,
and perhaps much of the attraction of attention stems from Paul Darrow's use
of the lines given him, he makes you notice<g>
also on the 5th Jay said:
__________________
'...No way did Avon ever look a prat though!'
Goes almost without saying! A prat? Avon? Contradiction in terms surely <g>
I tried to look 'prat' up - and it's not in my dictionary or thesaurus - but
even without a definitive definition my reaction to my sense of the word
does not equate with Avon, in any way, and certainly not in connection with
how he looks! In the beginning he looks young and oddly guileless at times
for one with such a cynic's view of what it's all about - later the looks
begin to catch up with the attitude <g> but a prat? well, I can't see it
myself <g>
and further on the 5th (which was an excellently interesting day all told)
Harriet contributed:
___________________________________________________________________
'My objection to the fourth-season hair is that it looks more Paul Darrow
Sex Symbol than Kerr Avon Computer Expert. And while Paul Darrow is very
charming - an aside by Pat who has had the pleasure of meeting him - oh
yes<g> - it's the other one I'm interested in watching.'
<G> this so much reminds of an on-going 'discussion' I have had with certain
fellow Avon watchers - who know who they are <g> - about hair styles - my
preference is pretty much just as Harriet's, I like less coiffuring <g>
maybe it makes him seem more vulnerable when his hair is not 'just so', who
can tell?<g> I have to admit that he looks *very* presentable in the fourth
season but I prefer the look of the earlier seasons, pushed for more
particularity - the third maybe - especially after 'Rumours..' in my
fanciful way I imagine that the passing through the fire has for a very
short while exposed something of the inner person - and he looks (Pat is
restraining OTT adjectives) nice <g>
And again on the 5th Judith brought up outfits (oh thank you Judith <g>)
__________________________________________________________
'...(Avon)...and Blake were the only ones who ended up with a distinctive
style of clothing... with Avon it became black, especially black leather and
studs...'
Ah, a chance to despise the leather & studs, sorry Judith<g> I cannot abide
the leather and studs - my only cavil with 'Terminal' is the precursing of
what was to become the 'distinctive' clothing style of the fourth season. I
don't think they suit him at all - to me they simply add to the oddness of
his less constrained persona - he was not an ostentatious dresser before -
rather the opposite - I know he wore leather - but other than the revolting
red thing it was not terribly showy - ok, I hear the guffaws! I know, I
know, but in terms of being ostentatious - oh well... I give up <g> you know
what I mean - I hope <g> - to me it seems that the leather & studs have a
large element of protectiveness about them somehow - when he takes the
jacket off he is soooo thin, the jacket intended to mislead? It engages my
sympathy, but does nothing for me aesthetically. I prefer the 'look' of
'Aftermath' - the draped sleeves are very becoming <g> well, the whole shirt
- and outfit - he changes into when on Sarran is entirely becoming <g> am
also fond of the silver shirt - though I know this is not everyone's
favourite. Personally, preferences seem to tend towards the simpler
costumes, which make the most of his elegance.
Then on the 6th Ann said:
____________________
'...does it strike anyone else that his edgy acting style and
spitting-out-words-crisply-line-delivery went overboard in season 4? Or was
he(Avon) trying to tell us he was going really mad?...'
Paul Darrow says not quite decidedly, during an interview in which he
discusses Avon seriously (I think<g>) he says and I paraphrase from memory,
hopefully accurately, that in his view Avon was not mad, just stressed - an
observation one cannot disagree with <g> - citing as proof the moment in
'Blake' when he mentions 'psychopaths' with a smile. He says, I think, that
this was deliberate, to suggest that he(Avon)is not - the reasoning being
that if he were he would be unaware of it and not smile? Hmmm... he must
have explained it more convincingly than that - if anyone wants chapter &
verse I shall dredge out the tape & transcribe, but convincing it is that he
does not consider Avon mad.
Ann was also musing about Paul Darrow's acting ability - well, I haven't
seen much I have to admit - but I have seen some, he is *very* good in
'Drake's venture' and in 'Guards, guards' - and at Deliverance I sat and
watched a rehearsal tape for the production of 'Macbeth' and was surprised
-amongst other feelings <g>- having heard not much good said about it, to
find myself riveted to the persuasion scene - the interpretation was at
least to me very good. In long, I think he can - but really do we need more
proof than that twenty years later we are still dissecting Avon, and ever
finding more to discuss - a layered performance one might suggest perhaps <g>
Ah there is nothing so entertaining as an Avon discussion <g> <g> <g> with a
touch of Paul Darrow once removed <g> thrown in <g>
but not only that but we are also having a Blake discussion - oh yes!
Iain (I think - forgive if I am misatributing here -) asked:
___________________________________________
'...how many of you out there feel that Roj Blake somehow contributed
something to the series that/made/ the first two seasons come alive? I'm not
sure what it was. Presence, energy, charisma... The 'soul' of it it seemed
in those series... only you never noticed until one lost him..' (this is
worth reprising <g> it's insightful, very <g>)
Well, from 'out there' I affirm that I agree with all you said Iain -
*all*. As an entirety I much prefer seasons one & two - three has some
wonderful, favourite, episodes - Rumours, Terminal, Sarcophagus, Children of
Auron - but overall the others are more loved by me and I agree it is
because Blake is among them - 'the soul' as is so perceptively suggested,
but not noticed until lost. And lost, it seems to me that Avon is also
somewhat lost without it and it takes him a while -until 'Terminal' really-
to find focus again, and the focus is Blake <g>
And yes, absolutely, Gareth Thomas is a 'wonderful' actor - 'Morgan's boy'
is perhaps the most singularly affecting piece of television I have ever
seen and besides I am *awfully* fond of the Roj Blake of his creation <g>
and finally (sighs of relief!) Ann asked :
_______________________________
'(And if weren't for PD, would I continue to rewatch the tapes. Well after,
Blake left, that is...)'
A provoking question - I am thinking about <g>
Pat Fenech
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:34:09 -0700
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7L re Avon
Message-ID: <357F5E41.3C09@geocities.com>
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Julia Jones wrote:
> Power? What do you mean Power? That's a *wonderful* episode for those of
> us who enjoy seeing Avon knocked unconscious, dragged around, slung over
> some hulking great brute's shoulder...
surely this bit is for the *other* list?
>
> The plot may be crap, but the visuals are stunning.
If only they had put Avon in a hairy barbarian outfit - leather and fur
- drool.
And despite all those who are offended by the sexist portrayals, I love
the concept of this ep: what if women *were* physically as strong - or
yes! stronger - than men? When Pella hurls Vila back when he starts
slavering on her - and Vila scuttles away in fear - this brings to mind
the countless times I've been presented with the image of a big man
threatening a woman and she scuttling away in fear. Ok, so Avon figures
out where her power is coming from, so hers is a short lived glory. But
still, this ep is not the simplistic "war between men and women" that it
pretends to on the surface. It is multi-layered, with all sorts of
comparisons of power: brute force vs. technology (which is so powerful
and feared it must be hidden by the warrior-wizard). Public vs private
power (GunSar and his woman in public vs at their cozy sewing circle).
Boisterous vs quiet power (GunSar vs. Pella and Soolin who, very
quietly, "got the ship" at the end). Seen vs. unseen power (Gigantic
GunSar fighting little Dayna who profits from the unseen power of the
Seska thrown to her).
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:41:20 -0700
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Message-ID: <357F5FF0.5FFD@geocities.com>
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Julia Jones wrote:
> They didn't quite script it as "What a pity Pinder had that little
> accident, I don't feel like shagging him any more, but I quite fancy
> that bit of stuff you've brought with you."
More interesting was Vila's reaction to Egrorian's attentions. How
easily he fell into the role of amusing consort! Not in the least
offended or distraught by Egrorian's blatant flirting. He seems, in
fact, to quite enjoy it. (So does Avon, for that matter, which is
strange; perhaps I should give him more credit for a sense of humor).
Vila's behavior brings to mind the fan stories that place Vila in a
compromising position many times during his many stints in reform
schools, prisions, etc. He acquiesed in order to survive. Some time ago
Lindly wrote a pithy account of Vila's perfect representation of the
feminine side of human behavior. And in this ep, that feminine side pops
up quickly and effortlessly.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:01:50 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0610210150-518Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Wed 10 Jun, Reuben Herfindahl wrote:
> On a totally separate issue I think it's interesting that issues that fan
> fic ignores was brought up. Maybe it's just because I'm too new to this,
> but I've never seen any pre Way Back Blake fan fic. I think it would be
> fascinating.
Interesting. I've seen several pre Way Back stories, but I've only ever seen
Blake covered in conjunction with Avon. Several writers have speculated whether
they knew each other when working on the Aquitar Project.
I don't remember any that deal with Blake in isolation. (I've seen a couple
that deal with Vila on his own. I've also seen Jenna, Soolin, Cally, Gan,
Tarrant covered at various times. Some year, I'll get back to that pre-series
Zen story...)
They aren't common types of story though. Perhaps it's because it's the
interactions between the characters that interest us and pre-Way Back stories
obviously lack that element.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:50:10 -0700
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Message-ID: <357F6202.AD9@geocities.com>
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Julia Jones wrote: re:
> >Slayer/Servilan is more melencholy than threatening (cf SAND).
>
> That's an interesting misspelling of Sleer - Freudian slip?
naw, he's been watching those Buffy reruns.
I think the Commissioner was supposed to take the "front line" patrol
role of Travis - I wish the new president was mentioned more as the top
heavy. True, Servalan was more ominous as the hidden power rather than
mincing about sandy worlds in stiletto heels.
hmmmm 4th season Avon vs. 1st season Travis. Now that's a contest I
should like to see.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:07:37 -0700
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Message-ID: <357F6619.5008@geocities.com>
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Ophelia wrote:
> ... Avon and
> Soolin in particular are increasingly willing
> to select the darkest alternative, too, in
> a way not possible with Blake, Gan or
> Cally around.
odd that more fanfic doesn't play upon this fact: who on board would
stop them from indulging in their most heartless schemes? not no-morals
Vila. not bloodthirsty Dayna. not even Tarrant, for he has the heart of
a pirate beneath that squeaky clean boy scout exterior. I should think
Avon and Soolin would shortly be heading up the James Gang of the
Shipping Lanes.
>
> And, of course, Cally, who I liked very much
> up to S-L-D but who got on my nerves
> once she stopped being a suicidal terrorist
> and became a caring mystic,
yes, so sad - the Nurse Chappel syndrome
I drool over Cally's initial appearance - a red devil on a dust bowl
planet - something out of Dune. Oh, if only they'd let her be a true
alien.
> Soolin endlessly
> fascinates me - I can watch any episode
> in which she gets a moment of sun, simply
> concentrating on her complex reactions
> and interactions with the crew.
Some complain that Soolin is never revealed to us; that her character is
shallow; but that is her mystery and intrigue. We can only surmise that
her depths are so dark and distasteful that she knows better than to
talk much about herself. What blood stains her hands? What nefarious
individuals has she hired out to - no questions asked? How many of her
bosses has she had to kill? As they say in the theater: always leave 'em
wanting more.
More Soolin! More! More!
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:16:59 -0700
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Message-ID: <357F684B.5164@geocities.com>
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Rob Clother wrote:
re Soolin:
> Avon certainly had no control over her: while his bully-boy
> tactics intimidated and infuriated Tarrant, Soolin found them pricelessly
> amusing. Look at what happened aboard the Scorpio in Warlord. There was
> a clear battle for alpha status, which Soolin clearly won. After that had
> happened, do you think Avon would have dared to try doing to Soolin what
> he did to Tarrant in Terminal? When Tarrant tries to intercede and
> prevent Avon from destroying the Liberator, Avon makes his point with a
> loaded gun. Soolin would have killed him where he stood -- after Warlord,
> he knew it, and where Soolin was concerned, he knew his place.
Part of Avon's surrender to Soolin's independence is his general respect
for women; he does not engage in one upmanship with them the way he does
with men. He treated Jenna with the same hands off attitude he treats
Soolin. And when Cally refuses Avon's demands to go blow up Travis'
ship, he caves in very quickly. If it had been Tarrant or Vila refusing
his commands, he'd have had a gun in their belly damn quick - saying
"It's you or Tavis, take your pick."
Part of Soolin's intrigue is her lack of desire for power; yes, her
quick draw could win her many arguments and get her own way - yet she
seems content to defend her own freedom to be and does not blatantly
contest for leadership with either Avon or Tarrant. It's not that she
lacks the brains to lead: she proved quick thinking when she claimed to
be Zukan's daughter and she proved deep thinking when she figured out
who really was Cancer. And she proved dedication to a cause when she
trained for the kill and hunted down every last bastard that murdered
her farming family.
(Can't you just see Soolin as a fluffy Southern Belle on a rich Gauda
Prime plantation - and her subsequent change to hardened killer?)
<shivver> hey! isn't that the plotline of Buffy the Vampire Slayer?
Pat P
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End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #162
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