From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #86 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume00/86 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 86 Today's Topics: RE: [B7L] horizon Re: [B7L] Re: Guest Stars Re: [B7L] Horizon 1.7 Re: [B7L] horizon Re: [B7L] Volcano question Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Seek-Locate-Destroy" Re: [B7L] Re: Guest Stars [B7L] Soolin & Avon RE: [B7L] Avon and That Image Re: [B7L] horizon Re: [B7L] RPG Female Fans [B7L] Horizon/Andy Hopkinson Re: [B7L] horizon Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Seek-Locate-Destroy" [B7L] horizon Re: [B7L] Horizon/Andy Hopkinson Re: [B7L] horizon Re: [B7L] Horizon/Andy Hopkinson Re: [B7L] collectors lot ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:31:39 +0100 From: "Helm, Troy" <thelm@csw.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] horizon Message-Id: <200003280741.BAA01052@interlock.csw.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Connection is now free and with games consoles, digital TV, set top boxes, Web Terminals etc offering cheap alternative to PC's cost now really isnt that much of an issue an issue. And being anble to read Horizon online would make it all worth while. The web needs that killer app!! : ) Troy -----Original Message----- From: Marian de Haan [mailto:maya@multiweb.nl] Sent: 28 March 2000 07:02 To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] horizon To my: >>Not every fan is online. Troy replied: >Well you can't always cater for the lowest denominator!!!! > >Upgrade or die ; ) You mean fans who can't afford to be online must be disregarded? Surely not? :-) Marian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:03:48 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Guest Stars Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000328105911.32084A-100000@bsauasc> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 26 Mar 2000, Ellynne G. wrote: > 1) Years ago, I came across a thing saying you couldn't survive more than > ten seconds in space. This was used in at least one fairly cheesey story > to get the hero (apparently dead at the end of part one) out alive (but > not until the villain had been celebrating for some time in part two [ten > seconds being very relative in some texts]). There's a summary of the effects of space exposure at http://www.astronomy.net/forums/blackholes/messages/2355.shtml To summarise the summary, you have about fifteen seconds of consciousness. If you reach safety in that time, you should suffer no serious injury, although there may be some frostbite and chapping. If you do pass out, then you soon die of anoxia. Your body does not explode. Your blood does not boil. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:26:44 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Horizon 1.7 Message-ID: <20000328102644.79733.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed <snip> >Tiger M. wrote >>I didn't see the webpage or the comments, but the whole thing does seem >>odd. I'm interested to know what was going on, too. > >This is the answer why the Movie Comments page was pulled. >Diane Gies started censoring comments that she didn't agree with. This >upset >a lot of people who started to complain about her actions. Diane's respons >was to take the comments page of line. >So much for freedom of speach. > > >David F. Freedom of Speech? You've been hanging around with those bleeding heart rebels and freedom fighters again haven't you David? I wanred you before, idealism can be contagious and is almost always fatal! :) Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:41:38 +0100 From: JMR <jager@clara.net> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] horizon Message-Id: <Version.32.20000328113237.00df18b0@pop.clara.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 20:46 24/03/00 , Emily Darby wrote: >Hi > >what does everyone else think of the Horizon latest >newsletter ? > >I am seriuosly thinking of cancelling my subscription >I wonder if it is time they just gave up, it seems to Those who have read Emily Darby's postings about Horizon and H39.5, may like to know that no-one of that name is, nor has ever been, a member of Horizon. Nor has anyone by the name of Mat Shayde. Further, no-one of either of those names was registered at Deliverance 98. We would state that the same applies to David Fielding, but he admits he has never been a Horizon member and has read someone else's magazines. Judith http://home.clara.net/jager ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:46:13 PST From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Volcano question Message-ID: <20000328114613.9925.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed <What is wrong with Rescue and Power?????? I used the Rescue/Power tape a few times to get some people hooked for good!!!> <grin> Rescue, though almost endearingly blatant in its unoriginality, is the best of the three (one has to give Our Heroes some points for keeping a straight face through Dorian's mugging), but is rather difficult for me to sit through after Terminal. Stardrive I just hate and loathe and detest and despise and abominate. And don't like BTW. Then there's Power...weeelll, apart from the excrutiating plot, ghastly sexist script, appalling guest stars, risible costumes and quite sick-making depiction of My Darling...nothing at all wrong, I suppose. JMHO, clearly... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:48:25 PST From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Seek-Locate-Destroy" Message-ID: <20000328114825.35338.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Una wrote: <Thatch was still in her very high-pitched voice and flowery blouses stage at this point, and hadn't had the blue suit power make over yet. Maybe Servie was an inspiration.> Which of course begs the mental picture of Maggie charging into her PR firm's office with a photo of Servie (in the lizard dress, maybe?) and thundering "I want you to turn me into *this*…" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:49:11 PST From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Guest Stars Message-ID: <20000328114911.94701.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed After Andrew wrote: <We didn't SEE Raiker die. So if you want to bring him back, it would be somewhat easier than bringing Blake back from GP.> Ellynne replied: <Except that there are more people known to survive gun wounds than there are people who have survived being in a vacuum without a helmet. There are also more ways of appearing to have died of gun wounds than there are of appearing to die in a vacuum without a helmet.> Then of course there's the stories which bring *Cally* back (takes even more suspension of disbelief, since Avon actually went in and *made sure*, whereas no one got time to check Blake... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:54:07 PST From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Soolin & Avon Message-ID: <20000328115407.21754.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed After I wrote: <There are good things about their partnership - he's comfortable with her, he understands the way her mind works (though he shows little interest in her mind as such, one of my prerequisites for him *taking* a personal interest in someone), > Mistral wrote: <Mm. I don't see any indication he was interested in Anna's mind.> To be honest, we do not get any indications AT ALL what it was he found so irresistable about That Woman, just some misty memory shots (who lent Kerr the rose-coloured glasses BTW? They ain't his style) and the undeniable fact that he Did Love Her (those five days' torture being rather hard to explain away otherwise). They're only in that one scene together, there's IMHO little chemistry between the actors but plenty of angst in the script, which carries it through, but no place to get some idea of what attracted either of them…so we extrapolate (AKA guess), of course, based on how see see Anna and how we see Avon relate to other people. Which brings me to Dorian's... <What's wrong with Soolin's mind?> Absolutely nothing, I didn't say there was. I said Avon was not much interested in it, which is a very different thing. <I know she's not an intellectual, but then very few of the crew are, but she is highly intelligent, has the capacity for reasoned logical thought and can be insightful.> So is/can be Jenna and Tarrant. All of them have what I'd call (for want of a better term) practical, pragmatic intelligence - sharp smartness - they're reasonably straightforward mentally (Soolin less so than the other two IMOHO There's nothing wrong with that in itself (all three can and do show an enjoyable if unambiguous gift for put-downs, for one thing), but the people Avon appears to *enjoy* talking to most - where we see him indulging in verbal play rather than just bald communication (and less-than-veiled insults) - are the ones who are an ongoing mental challenge. In particular, Blake, Vila and - in her perverse way - Servalan. I believe that - as a brilliant, intense, mentally and emotionally ambiguous and unpredictable man - mental power and/or agility is more important to him than actual smartness per se. Vila may not (IMO) be the 'more-intelligent-than-he-acts' pseudo-Delta of fan diction, but he is quick, fluid, and amusing. Blake is an *enormous* challenge, being the nearest to his intellectual equal and every bit as complicated (which makes their verbal sparring so much more enjoyable - Avon's got someone here who can catch his allusions, cap them and make *him* work). Servalan may be warped and evil, but she does know how to use words and ideas, both as weapons and as playthings. Now. Back to extrapolating Anna...she is bright and devious enough to rise to a top spy (a career in which ambiguity, and twisting of words and ideas, is part of the territory) then plan a coup from the inside . There are plenty of dark shoals in that shark-like mind. It's reasonable IMO to assume that Avon was at least subconsciously aware of them. Dorian again: <Mind you, my money's on Avon and Jenna - I don't think much of her much vaunted interest in Blake. :)> There's a few signs (nearly all in Redemption as I recall <g>) that she finds him physically attractive, but from what's on screen, I see Jenna as the person out of all 4 seasons that he likes least (not dislikes - he isn't interested enough in her to do that). And she resents and distrusts him right the way through to Star One. She certainly likes the - errr - feel of Fearless Leader - in 1st series there's a *lot* of physical affection between them. Cools off in 2nd... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:55:47 PST From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Avon and That Image Message-ID: <20000328115547.55041.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jacqueline wrote: <Cally and Vila did hug in Aftermath (or was it Powerplay?) Since that was the most explicit physical contact any of our heroes ever had on screen (except for Avon dragging Blake away from exploding things)> *And* hugging him (you cannot call *that* moment in Duel much else IMO). Oh, and there's also Blake and Jenna in Cygnus Alpha (she throws herself into his arms <g>). And don't Vila and Dayna share a hug after they shoot down a pursuit ship in Kairos (one of the surprising number of nice moments in an essentially silly but quite endearing episode)? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:11:54 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com> To: jager@clara.net, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] horizon Message-ID: <20000328131154.15576.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: JMR <jager@clara.net> >To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se >Subject: Re: [B7L] horizon >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:41:38 +0100 > >At 20:46 24/03/00 , Emily Darby wrote: > >Hi > > > >what does everyone else think of the Horizon latest > >newsletter ? > > > >I am seriuosly thinking of cancelling my subscription > >I wonder if it is time they just gave up, it seems to > > >Those who have read Emily Darby's postings about Horizon and H39.5, may >like to know that no-one of that name is, nor has ever been, a >member of Horizon. Nor has anyone by the name of Mat Shayde. >Further, no-one of either of those names was registered at Deliverance 98. >We would state that the same applies to David Fielding, but he admits he >has never been a Horizon member and has read someone else's magazines. > >Judith Dear, dear Judith, feeling defensive are we? It's a shame that you can't defend Horizon's inadaquacies rather than attacking our arguements. What are you trying to say here? That because we don't show up on your records that our opinions are not valid, that we aren't entitled to a say? Hhhm, maybe you should be working for the Federation rather than the rebels. Mat Shayde is not my real name, I have created the address and the name solely for the Lysator list, as is my perogative, (I'm sure that several of the people here aren't using their real names.) so that my main mail in-box didn't get filled up with Blake's 7 stuff. I was a member of Horizon for nearly 10 years. I was at several of the Who's 7 conventions and at Deliverance (I have the photos and memories to prove it!) Any information that I have given the club about my identity and address at the time were given in confidence, not for you to ferret through at a later date to prove or question my validity. (Does the Data Protection Act mean anything to you?) This is typical of Horizon's attitude; when in doubt attack others, blame others for failings, call the validity an oppinions of others into question, never try and actually respond to criticism or accept it in any way. Nice to know that the club is still being run for the fans! As David Fielding said - so muych for freedom of speech! Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:49:23 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com> To: calle@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG Female Fans Message-ID: <20000328134923.16226.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Mail me if you want to know more details about the game or the > > scenarios I've been using, > >Could you post here instead? At least I would be interested in hearing >how it has worked for you. > >What sort of people were the PCs? Did characters from the series show >up and if so, who? Did they all die in the end? :-) > Calle After you kindly showed an interest in the Blake’s 7 role-playing game that I am running and asked for details about my characters and scenarios I started writing this document to form the basis of a posting. I hadn’t really realised quite how much info I have - well I have been running this for 2 years now! Here are a few brief starting notes and outlines of the characters. There is more to follow – loads more! :) I hope you realise what you have let yourself in for! Hi. Thanks for showing an interest in my little Blake’s 7 game. I’ve been running it now for about two years with something of a rolling cast of characters! (Several people have dropped out, often due to more pressing commitments, once due to two players falling in love and moving to Leeds and one player finally admitted (after role-playing for two years!) that she didn’t enjoy role-playing at all and was only doing because her girlfriend did! One player dropped out and then, six months later, dropped back in again, causing me ingeniously resurrect his character from the dead.) The characters haven’t met any main Blake’s 7 characters yet although they have worked with Avalon a couple of times. I try to use a lot of Blake’s 7 themes and ideas and keep things true to the Blake’s 7 universe and storylines. I don’t know if what I’m producing is great but my players and I enjoy it and in at least one of them it has inspired a greater interest in Blake’s 7! My players aren’t, generally speaking, Blake’s 7 fans (although most of them remember it fondly from the first time around.) and this has worked to my advantage as it means that I have been able to stea…uh…adapt plotlines for my own use without the players knowing what happens next. I’ve set the campaign during mid season two. Blake and the others are quite famous and the characters have heard of them even if they have never met them. Also the hunt for Doccholli (and Lurgen) is on, which was a useful hook for my opening scenario. The Intergalactic War awaits! My characters are an assorted bunch of reluctant rebels who are currently wandering around in a stolen Federation Command Cruiser, fighting the Federation where they can and being (vaguely) pursued by their Travis-like adversary Major Beloc whose ship it was they stole! (Ooops!) (I am finding it difficult to have Beloc convincingly pursue them without his constant arrivals looking cliched and contrived. Hey ho!) I have several interesting plans for them in the future, including the eventual ownership of a Liberator-type ship. (I believe in making them work for it though, they don’t just get a powerful ship straight off! :) ) Rather than using the Liberator as a model I am going to use one of the ships from the independent fan-film Blake’s Legend. (Anyone who saw the trailer at a Con a couple of years ago will know what I mean. For anyone else it is a slightly smaller version of the standard Liberator design with shorter ‘prongs’. Looks good though.) This will include the standard Liberator features, including Zen and a teleport. There have been definite advantages to having them use a Federation Command Cruiser, including the fact that they need to steal fuel rods and refuel on a regular basis. This gives them an added impetus for attacking Federation bases. Also it makes space combat more interesting and exciting for the characters and the players. The campaign began on an independent world called Hastin, where (by complete coincidence :) ) several of the characters were based. The world was attacked by Federation forces and occupied, forcing the characters to flee. The characters, in order of appearance, are as follows: (characters marked PC are still being played, any marked NPC have either left the character group or are under my control.) Dr Brennan Chase (PC) (male) Nominal leader. He is a Cyber-surgeon who used to be responsible for Mutiod modification. He is mildly neurotic/stressed and is becoming increasingly reliant upon alcohol and relaxant drugs. He discovered a way to use brain implants to make people telepathic. The Federation tried to use this as a weapon and converted his wife into a Mutoid in order to ‘persuade’ him. He operated on himself and, now telepathic, went on the run. He hates the Federation and feels guilty about his past activities, including the mutoid conversion of his wife and his alienation from his son. Felix Sargossa (PC) (male) A cynical pilot and sometime smuggler. He dislikes the Federation but doesn’t hate them, often reckless, often plays Devil’s Advocate. He was shot, blown up and had a tree fall on him, (hey when I kill a character, I kill a character!) while the characters were escaping a raid on a Federation communications centre. The others thought him dead, however he wasn’t and was captured by the group’s enemy Major Beloc and was brainwashed into betraying them when they rescued him. This brainwashing was eventually removed by Brennan. Maya (NPC) (female) Deprogrammed Mutiod. She was badly injured in a pursuit ship crash and her programming was wiped. She was put back together by Brennan and Dr Morstan. She is humourless, emotionless and efficient. Staunch supporter of Brennan. She doesn’t hate the Federation, as she has no emotion, however she realises that she must oppose them as if she doesn’t she will simply be re-modified. Some of her lost emotion is slowly coming back – she feels a loyalty for the other characters that she can not logically explain. She has shown a capacity for taking charge in tense combat situations. Like all Mutoids she is physically very strong and swift, however she is also still dependant upon blood plasma. Issac (PC/NPC) (male) Originally escaped from Hastin with Brennan, Maya, Felix and Pletrac. He is a quiet mechanic, more at home with machines than people. When the Icarus reached Pharos he decided that the rebel life wasn’t for him and left, leaving the characters a note. Pletrac (NPC) (male) Research scientist from Hastin. He is in late middle age (about 56) but fairly spry. Not really cut out for the rebel life. He is a useful eccentric inventor who really enjoys fiddling with explosives. Leon thinks that he is a bit mad! He has stayed with other Hastin people on Carsis where they will be trained by Avalon’s group before returning to fight the good fight on Hastin. Bran (PC/NPC) (replaced Issac) (female) Bran is a mechanic and general fixer. He is quiet but practical and level headed. He is an ex Terra Nostra member, however he left when he found out some things that they didn’t want him to know. (C.F. Shadow!) He is now on the run from them and the Federation. He’s not sure about being a rebel, but goes along with it because he has no other options. He was recently badly injured in a gunfight and now has a partially artificial left arm. Hagan (PC/NPC) (briefly replaced Felix) (female) A product of a secret Federation cloning project, Hagan is a trained pilot and was dispatched to travel around collecting genetic samples for further experimentation while her (un-named) clone sister stayed behind in a laboratory to be experimented on. She eventually came to hate the Federation and went AWOL. She was captured, arrested and the characters rescued her from Carsis where she was awaiting court martial. She replaced the ship’s pilot Felix who was presumed killed on Carsis. She left the Icarus after the rescue of Felix from Rocar and, taking a captured Pursuit Ship she went off in search of her sister. She promised to keep in touch. Leon (PC) (male) A former Federation employed assassin who was set up by the Federation to take the fall for one of their political manoeuvres. He escaped capture however and now hates the Federation. He worked for a while for a member of the Terra Nostra before joining the group. He is young (about 25) reckless and likes big weapons and shooting people. He is not sure of his goals but is easy going as long as he can shoot at people. Hates the Federation after being used and set up by them. Aric Kemp (PC) (male) A former Federation researcher specialising in weapons development and computer science. He became disillusioned with the Federation way, became a rebel, was caught and shipped to the Praxos IV penal colony from where he was rescued by the characters. He is currently infected with a contact poison and requires complete dialysis every two-three days. Dexter (PC) (male) A young (19), mildly vain, idealistic technician from the independent world Anabraxus. He joined the crew during the rescue attempt on the penal colony on Praxos IV (Praxos IV is the next planet out from Anabraxus.) He stayed with the Icarus after being infected with a contact poison (C.F. Kemp). He dislikes the Federation. His skills lie with security systems and other, ‘underhand’ abilities. Other notable characters: Dr Daris Morstan (NPC) (female) Brennan’s friend and colleague from Hastin. A robust, no-nonsense woman in early middle age she is practical, level headed and energetic. She grew to respect and admire Brennan during their work together and also grew fond of him. (all feelings which Brennan began to reciprocate.) They worked together on reconstructing Maya. When the characters left Hastin she remained behind to form a resistance group. Major Beloc (NPC) (male) The villain. He was in charge of the take-over of Hastin. Whilst there he encountered Brennan and recognised him from wanted information in Federation briefings. He captured Brennan, however Brennan was rescued by Felix and Daris who then took Beloc prisoner and stole his Command Cruiser. They then dumped Beloc on the next planet out in orbit with a homing beacon so that his subordinates could rescue him. Beloc is determined to capture the characters and bring them to justice, partly because they are criminals but mostly because they have humiliated him and stolen his ship. Avalon (NPC) (female) As per the series really. She is now running a rebel group on the planet Carsis where there is a prominent Federation Communications complex. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:25:02 +0100 From: "Diva" <diva@tn.prestel.co.uk> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: [B7L] Horizon/Andy Hopkinson Message-ID: <006a01bf98c1$a857ce20$f793fea9@diva> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm surprised and disappointed that no-one else has commented on what is going on here. Do you really think it's acceptable to say incredibly personal (and untrue) things about Diane Gies on a public list of which she is not (AFAIK) a member? For example, David Fielding asked: >How does Diane Gies’s fallopian tubes, stop the Horizon committee from carrying on >and doing the NL in her absence? I think that's an amazingly offensive and insensitive question, and it is inaccurate as well, since no-one has specified the nature of Diane's medical problem - probably because they didn't realise that anyone would be nasty enough to trivialise it. As for why the newsletter didn't come out, Horizon 39.5 makes it clear that there was a problem with Andy Hopkinson, who *is* on this list and who has stayed surprisingly quiet. Since nobody else has taken the obvious step, I'll take it now. Andy Hopkinson, please could you explain why you are no longer part of Horizon? Also, could you tell us what happened to the material that was to be used in the next Horizon newsletter? If Andy chooses not to answer those questions here I suggest you all contact Horizon before criticising Diane any further. You don't know all the facts, and you shouldn't judge people on anything less than the truth. Before anyone asks, I don't know all the facts myself, which is why I would like to hear from Andy on this so that both sides have been made public. I'm not asking for a slanging match, but Horizon suggests that Andy took responsibility for the newsletter while Diane was ill, so I think *he* is the one we should be asking about this. In the meantime, a few remarks which are meant for those of you who have been making personal remarks about Diane behind her back. I would suggest that out of common decency, you refrain from doing it any more. I also suggest that if you want Horizon to be different you should tell Horizon, not bitch about it here. There are plenty of people who write regularly on this list, presumably because you feel you have something interesting to say about B7. If you want Horizon to have better content, why don't you write for the magazine? If you live near enough to a committee member, why not help with the practical side of things? Or are you just armchair critics, eager to put down other people's efforts, but unwilling to contribute? I realise a number of people on Lysator run websites, but none of the people who have been bitching seem to have a url at the bottom of their emails, and as has just been pointed out on this list, there are still lots of B7 fans who aren't online. For those people, Horizon may be their only source of B7 info. If you think it should be better, why sit around complaining? That won't achieve anything for anyone. If you think you could do better, DO IT. Diva@tn.prestel.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:41:21 +0100 From: JMR <jager@clara.net> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] horizon Message-Id: <E12ZxDi-000H0p-00@oracle.clara.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 14:11 28/03/00 , Mat Shayde wrote: > >Dear, dear Judith, feeling defensive are we? It's a shame that you can't >defend Horizon's inadaquacies rather than attacking our arguements. What are >you trying to say here? That because we don't show up on your records that >our opinions are not valid, that we aren't entitled to a say? Hhhm, maybe >you should be working for the Federation rather than the rebels. > >Mat Shayde is not my real name, I have created the address and the name >solely for the Lysator list, as is my perogative, (I'm sure that several of >the people here aren't using their real names.) so that my main mail in-box >didn't get filled up with Blake's 7 stuff. >I was a member of Horizon for nearly 10 years. I was at several of the Who's >7 conventions and at Deliverance (I have the photos and memories to prove >it!) Any information that I have given the club about my identity and >address at the time were given in confidence, not for you to ferret through >at a later date to prove or question my validity. (Does the Data Protection >Act mean anything to you?) > >This is typical of Horizon's attitude; when in doubt attack others, blame >others for failings, call the validity an oppinions of others into question, >never try and actually respond to criticism or accept it in any way. Nice to >know that the club is still being run for the fans! > >As David Fielding said - so muych for freedom of speech! > >Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?" I'm not defending/explaining anything. I'm not on the "Horizon" committee. I'm merely stating facts: the names "Emily Darby", "David Fielding" and "Matt Shayde" do not match those of any club member, or attendee at "Deliverance". And like you, I'm well aware that people are not using their real names in this (and other) debates. Judith http://home.clara.net/jager ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:46:34 +0000 From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] First Impressions: "Seek-Locate-Destroy" Message-ID: <38E0C5CA.771DCB9D@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sally Manton wrote: > > Una wrote: > <Thatch was still in her very high-pitched voice and flowery blouses stage > at this point, and hadn't had the blue suit power make over yet. Maybe > Servie was an inspiration.> > > Which of course begs the mental picture of Maggie charging into her PR > firm's office with a photo of Servie (in the lizard dress, maybe?) and > thundering "I want you to turn me into *this*" Sadly, I don't have my copy of 'The Downing Street Years' to hand, but I could easily see that scene happening... Una ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:07:05 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Emily=20Darby?= <emilydarby@yahoo.co.uk> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] horizon Message-ID: <20000328150705.15769.qmail@web4006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Judith wrote > > Those who have read Emily Darby's postings about > Horizon and H39.5, may > like to know that no-one of that name is, nor has > ever been, a > member of Horizon. Nor has anyone by the name of Mat > Shayde. > Further, no-one of either of those names was > registered at Deliverance 98. > We would state that the same applies to David > Fielding, but he admits he > has never been a Horizon member and has read someone > else's magazines. > Does it matter ? The intention was not to offend anyone, i apologise if i have done so...... This lyst has always been an open forum for debate unless anything has changed , Calle? i was personnaly very very disappointed with the latest offering from Horizon this time and i was interested in hearing what other people thought i know that there are a lot of Horizon members on list and i was intereseted in their views. I am not using my real name and i make no secret of that fact, i will stand y anything i have said, the reason i am using this account is that i am away from home and cannot access my usual account as much as normal Not that i feel that i should have to explain myself to anyone , i would guess that 25% of people on mailing lists do not use their real names , in fact how many people who write fanfic use their real names ?? I have been a member of Horizon for many years feel saddened that it seems to be falling apart through , well i don't know what really i just get the impression that no one cares anymore, if they did i beleive that these Deliverence videos would have been ready long before now On that subject i have read the apology and explanations and although they probably are genuine it is not acceptable to have to wait 2 years! Emily ___________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:08:49 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com> To: diva@tn.prestel.co.uk, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Horizon/Andy Hopkinson Message-ID: <20000328150849.4760.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I'm surprised and disappointed that no-one else has commented on what is >going on here. Do you really think it's acceptable to say incredibly >personal (and untrue) things about Diane Gies on a public list of which she >is not (AFAIK) a member? How do you know what is true and what isn't? For example, David Fielding asked: > > >How does Diane Gies’s fallopian tubes, stop the Horizon committee from >carrying on > >and doing the NL in her absence? > >I think that's an amazingly offensive and insensitive question, and it is >inaccurate as well, since no-one has specified the nature of Diane's >medical >problem - probably because they didn't realise that anyone would be nasty >enough to trivialise it. As for why the newsletter didn't come out, Horizon >39.5 makes it clear that there was a problem with Andy Hopkinson, It makes it clear that Horizon are *blaming* Andy - that's not the same thing. who *is* >on this list and who has stayed surprisingly quiet. Since nobody else has >taken the obvious step, I'll take it now. > >Andy Hopkinson, please could you explain why you are no longer part of >Horizon? >Also, could you tell us what happened to the material that was to be used >in >the next Horizon newsletter? > >If Andy chooses not to answer those questions here I suggest you all >contact >Horizon before criticising Diane any further. You don't know all the facts, >and you shouldn't judge people on anything less than the truth. Before >anyone asks, I don't know all the facts myself, which is why I would like >to >hear from Andy on this so that both sides have been made public. I'm not >asking for a slanging match, but Horizon suggests that Andy took >responsibility for the newsletter while Diane was ill, so I think *he* is >the one we should be asking about this. > >In the meantime, a few remarks which are meant for those of you who have >been making personal remarks about Diane behind her back. I would suggest >that out of common decency, you refrain from doing it any more. I also >suggest that if you want Horizon to be different you should tell Horizon, the fact this Diva, that Diane *is* Horizon and, I'm afraid, not in a good way. As David pointed out, she takes sole responsibility for producing the newsletter and seems to desire to control everything herself. I know of people who have left the Horizon infrastructure, and indeed fandom in total, because of their disgust and annoyance with the way that Horizon is run. I'm afraid that if you are going to take total control you must be the one to receive the brickbats as well as the bouquets. >not bitch about it here. There are plenty of people who write regularly on >this list, presumably because you feel you have something interesting to >say >about B7. If you want Horizon to have better content, why don't you write >for the magazine? and have someone read my article in 15 months time - no thanks! If you live near enough to a committee member, why not >help with the practical side of things? assuming that you would be allowed to. I'm afraid that Horizon has become more and more of an insular clique over the last few years. Or are you just armchair critics, >eager to put down other people's efforts, it's not a question of eagerness, I say what I say with a great feeling of sadness, I was once proud to be a member of Horizon, however I became highly disillusioned with it about two years ago. It claims to represent Blake's 7 fandom, however I no longer feel that it does and that it has lots it's way. but unwilling to contribute? I >realise a number of people on Lysator run websites, but none of the people >who have been bitching seem to have a url at the bottom of their emails, >and >as has just been pointed out on this list, there are still lots of B7 fans >who aren't online. For those people, Horizon may be their only source of out of date B7 >info. If you think it should be better, why sit around complaining? That >won't achieve anything for anyone. If you think you could do better, DO IT. A lot of the comment has been criticism of the way the Horizon performs and what it produces. Are you suggesting that it should be immune from criticism? That it's members should just pay their money and accept any old tat that the club produces? I'm not suggesting that fandom should be run on a solely commercial basis, however I think that fans should get good value for the money that they spend at that those people taking the fans' money (and gaining the interest on deposits paid for items as yet un-produced!) should be accountable if those products and services aren't up to scratch. Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:14:04 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com> To: jager@clara.net, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] horizon Message-ID: <20000328151404.23152.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed <snip> >I'm not defending/explaining anything. I'm not on the "Horizon" committee. >I'm merely stating facts: the names "Emily Darby", "David Fielding" and >"Matt Shayde" do not match those of any club member, or attendee at >"Deliverance". >And like you, I'm well aware that people are not using their real names in >this (and other) debates. > >Judith Firstly if you aren't on the Horizon committee then you shouldn't have access to that information, it is (or at least should be)confidential! Secondly if you aren't 'defending or explaining' then why bother to mention the fact? It was obviously done to undermine our posts, I can see no other reason. What does it matter what I call myself, it doesn't alter my right to an opinion or the validity or my comments. Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:22:26 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Emily=20Darby?= <emilydarby@yahoo.co.uk> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Horizon/Andy Hopkinson Message-ID: <20000328152226.26869.qmail@web4002.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Diva <diva@tn.prestel.co.uk> wrote: > I'm surprised and disappointed that no-one else has > commented on what is > going on here. Do you really think it's acceptable > to say incredibly > personal (and untrue) things about Diane Gies on a > public list of which she > is not (AFAIK) a member? For example, David Fielding > asked: > > >How does Diane Gies’s fallopian tubes, stop the > Horizon committee from > carrying on > >and doing the NL in her absence? I don't know thati would clarify this comment as amazing offensive and insensitive, Diane presuamably chose to include in 39.5 the anture of her incapacity as 'ladies bits' , now i am female and that does not leave a lot of the imagination > I think that's an amazingly offensive and > insensitive question, and it is > inaccurate as well, since no-one has specified the > nature of Diane's medical > problem - probably because they didn't realise that > anyone would be nasty > enough to trivialise it. As for why the newsletter > didn't come out, Horizon > 39.5 makes it clear that there was a problem with > Andy Hopkinson, who *is* > on this list and who has stayed surprisingly quiet. > Since nobody else has > taken the obvious step, I'll take it now. I would think that he does not want to get involved, the newsletter implies that there has been a big problem, the comment regarding if you want to see the correspondance please make an appt with Diane (not quoted complete) implies to me that there has been a falling out big time and she is not prepared to say why which i guess it her perogative however i would think that the majority of members would like to know > Andy Hopkinson, please could you explain why you are > no longer part of > Horizon? > Also, could you tell us what happened to the > material that was to be used in > the next Horizon newsletter? AFAIK Andy had done loads of work for Diane/Horizon and i wondered myself what had caused the break up, all i can say is that it is very sad day for B7 fandom when fans lose friendship with one another it only makes for a poorer fandom in my opinion > If Andy chooses not to answer those questions here I > suggest you all contact > Horizon before criticising Diane any further. You > don't know all the facts, > and you shouldn't judge people on anything less than > the truth. Before > anyone asks, I don't know all the facts myself, > which is why I would like to > hear from Andy on this so that both sides have been > made public. I'm not > asking for a slanging match, but Horizon suggests > that Andy took > responsibility for the newsletter while Diane was > ill, so I think *he* is > the one we should be asking about this. > > In the meantime, a few remarks which are meant for > those of you who have > been making personal remarks about Diane behind her > back. I would suggest > that out of common decency, you refrain from doing > it any more. I also > suggest that if you want Horizon to be different you > should tell Horizon, > not bitch about it here. There are plenty of people > who write regularly on > this list, presumably because you feel you have > something interesting to say > about B7. If you want Horizon to have better > content, why don't you write > for the magazine? If you live near enough to a > committee member, why not > help with the practical side of things? Or are you > just armchair critics, > eager to put down other people's efforts, but > unwilling to contribute? I > realise a number of people on Lysator run websites, > but none of the people > who have been bitching seem to have a url at the > bottom of their emails, and > as has just been pointed out on this list, there are > still lots of B7 fans > who aren't online. For those people, Horizon may be > their only source of B7 > info. If you think it should be better, why sit > around complaining? That > won't achieve anything for anyone. If you think you > could do better, DO IT. > > Diva@tn.prestel.co.uk I agree and i think there are a lot of people who would love to be involved but it does seeem a little 'cliquey' at Horizon towers and perhaps some of the in jokes and comments in the newsletters put people off, i don't know for sure but it would certainly dissuade me i don'y know who is bitching about Diane behind her back , if this is true then it is unfair , if anyone has anything to say then i agree they should say it to her face or not at all, people are entitled to their opinion , i personally have no axe to grind against Diane or anyone in particular at horizon i just wanted to stimulate some debate which i appeared to have succeeded in rather the wrong way Emily ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:24:06 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Emily=20Darby?= <emilydarby@yahoo.co.uk> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] collectors lot Message-ID: <20000328152406.27032.qmail@web4002.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Mat Shayde <dorian17@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Sounds good to me Emily - when's it on? It's good > to see someone drawing > attention to Blake's 7. Shame the BBC haven't > advertised the repeats! :) It is 3.30 on either the 3rd or 4th april on channel 4 Emily ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #86 *************************************