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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 45
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Re: B7 Last episode
[B7L] Q-study results: a brief addendum
Re: [B7L] Odd quotes
ERRATUM Re: [B7L] Q-study results: a brief addendum
Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
[B7L] new postal rates
Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Re: [B7L]
Re: [B7L] Re: B7 Last episode
Re: [B7L]
Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Re: [B7L] Wu names
Re: [B7L] Wu names
Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Re: [B7L]
Re: re [B7L] The Surrender
[B7L] New goodies at Ashton Press, B7 stuff on eBay
[B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Re: [B7L] Q-study results: a brief addendum
Re: re [B7L] The Surrender
Re: [B7L] Q-study results: a brief addendum
Re: [B7L] Q-study results: a brief addendum
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 05:36:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "S. Kuske" <s_kuske@yahoo.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: B7 Last episode
Message-ID: <20000217133629.8438.qmail@web124.yahoomail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> All that being said, however, even though she could
> have been there,
> she wouldn't have been such a fool to go in there
> until all the
> rebels were dead or disarmed - including Avon. So
> he couldn't have
> shot her, however desirable an outcome that might
> have been.
Servalan could have entered the room believing that
they had taken Avon alive. She would want him alive
after all. And she would be eager to be the one to
say "Drop that weapon, Avon. You could get hurt."
She could easily believe that Avon would rather live
than be shot. I do.
That's right. Avon did lower his weapon and surrender
to Servalan. A love scene ensues...
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:37:13 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Q-study results: a brief addendum
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000217122214.13602B-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In an idle moment, I did a bit of number-crunching based on the data in
Una's Q-study paper. Not one to let a piece of data analysis go to waste,
I thought I'd share the results with you chaps.
************************
McCormack (2000) showed that fan appreciation of Blake's 7 can be
classified into five different accounts (i.e. ways of approaching the
material). The accounts were
1) Beautiful Suffering - which emphasises character development,
particularly of Avon
2) If You Were the Only Boy in the World - which emphasises relationships
between characters, particularly Blake and Avon
3) A Little Bit of Politics - emphasises political aspects of individual
episodes
4) Universal Constancy - emphasises a coherent, self-consistent story arc
5) Carry on Up the Rebels - enjoys the show as one glorious romp.
Appendix 2 of McCormack (2000) lists the 52 episodes of Blake's 7, with
the score given to each episode in each of the five accounts. Episodes are
scored from +5 to -5, with +5 being the best and -5 the worst.
I have further analysed these scores, in order to get a picture of how
fandom as a whole regards particular episodes.
I characterise each episode by two quantities: the mean score (the sum of
the scores given to the episode in each of the five accounts, divided by
5), and the range (the difference between the highest and lowest scores
for that episode). The mean reflects the average rating for that episode
in fandom as a whole: the range indicates the degree of controversy over
that episode. I will use a notation convention such that Gold(1,5)
indicates that the episode "Gold" has a mean of 1 and a range of 5.
Note that equal weighting is given to all five accounts. This may not
reflect the true prevalence of each account within the fan community.
I will now discuss the ratings given to episodes which are extreme in some
fashion. These fall into four groups: the top 5 scorers, the bottom 5
scorers, the episodes with the highest range of scores, and those with the
lowest range.
TOP 5:
Rumours of Death (3, 6)
Star One (2.8, 6)
Aftermath (2.8, 6)
City at the Edge of the World (2.6, 4)
Gambit (2.2, 4)
"Rumours of Death" is thus the most popular episode. Its combination of
Avon angst, intense relationship issues and moral and political richness
insures high score from the first three accounts. Only account 4,
Universal Constancy, rates it poorly (-1, resulting in the moderately high
range for this episode). This presumably is because the episode is
perceived as sitting poorly with the earlier "Countdown".
"Star One" is also widely popular, only scoring poorly in account 5 (Carry
On up the Rebels).
"City" and "Gambit" are both popular across the board, without a single
negative score. One could therefore take these as the best examples of
good Blake's 7: well-liked, with few detractors.
The high score of "Aftermath" surprised me. This episode is only unpopular
with account 3 (A Little Bit of Politics): its combination of Avon drool,
reinventing the new character dynamics, wrapping up the Andromedan War and
much camp posturing clearly offer different treats to all the other
accounts.
BOTTOM 5
Animals (-4, 3)
Stardrive (-3, 3)
Ultraworld (-3, 5)
Dawn of the Gods (-2.6, 5)
Voice From the Past (-2.2, 6)
It is confirmed: "Animals" is the worst Blake's 7 story ever.
Interestingly, there is much less disagreement over the scores for the
worst episodes than for the best. This may be that story elements which
stand out as wonderful for one account can be a reall turn-off for
another. Alternatively, it could simply be that less close attention is
paid to episodes regarded as bad.
MOST VARIABLE
Sarcophagus (1.4, 10)
The Web (-2, 8)
Games (-1, 8)
The Way Back, Cygnus Alpha, Deliverance, Sand, Blake (all range 7)
"Sarcophagus" is the most controversial episode, with scores spanning the
full range from best to worst. The details of its scores are illuminating.
account 1) 4
account 2) 2
account 3) 1
account 4) -5
account 5) 5
"Sarcophagus" is liked because of its focus on Avon's inner emotional
state (account 1), and most off all because of its combination of
guadiness, romance and sexuality (account 2). Although more widely
regarded as a well-made episode, the lack of Blake (account 2) and the
absence of wider political/cultural themes (account 3) are regarded as
unfortunate. For account 4, the contrast in tone, style, themes and
subject matter from the rest of the series is so jarring as to be a fatal
flaw.
"The Web" is, by contrast, a widely disliked episode. Its only positive
score is in account 2, where the focus on Blake makes up for the other
flaws.
"Games" scores poorly in accounts 2 and 5, as a Blakeless action piece,
and very highly in account 3. While not a terribly political episode,
"Games" works as a self-contained piece with relatively high production
values and a strong guest performance. In this case, it is the emphasis on
individual episodes in account 3 that is important.
"The Way Back" scores highly as a Blake story, and as setting up the
universe and story arc: the absence of Avon brings it down in account 1.
"Blake" is perhaps a surprising inclusion in this category. It os
generally a very well-liked episode. It is not well rated by account 5,
presumably as it is a grim and cynical story, and account 2 scores it
poorly not because it is badly written or produced, but becaue its
emotional impact is too distressing.
LEAST VARIABLE
Breakdown (-0.4, 1)
Seek-Locate-Destroy (1, 2)
Weapon (-1, 2)
Countdown (1, 2)
These episodes are not only the least variable, they also have mediocre
average scores. It seems they arouse no strong feelings at all: OK
episodes, but not worthy of much detailed consideration.
What conclusions can we draw from the above results? Apart from the
discussions of individual episodes, one broader point is clear. Fans
disagree wildly and fundamentally over what constitutes good Blake's 7;
however, there is a solid consensus about what makes a bad episode, or
even a mediocre one.
REFERENCE
McCormack, U., "'Reality is a dangerous concept': Accounts of appreciation
amongst an online fan community", Diegesis, 2000, in press.
*********************************
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:52:07 EST
From: KKrause658@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Odd quotes
Message-ID: <22.21f2028.25dd5707@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Ellynne wrote: <"Come along, little man, she thought. Come along little
man, and die. Don't keep me waiting."
OK, so I don't know who in B7 would say this. I'm sure Vila hears this
line in his nightmares.>
LOL, when I first read it I heard Servalan speak it quite plainly....You can
fill in quite a few names that the Supreme Commander would consider a little
man.
Karen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:03:12 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: ERRATUM Re: [B7L] Q-study results: a brief addendum
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000217140145.13602C-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> "Sarcophagus" is liked because of its focus on Avon's inner emotional
> state (account 1), and most off all because of its combination of
> guadiness, romance and sexuality (account 2).
The latter account should be account 5.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:34:30 -0000
From: "Jonathan Coupe" <jonathan@meanwhile.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "Helen Krummenacker" <avona@jps.net>
Cc: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Message-ID: <003d01bf7954$1a562450$1156883e@ming>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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----- Original Message -----
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 5:10 AM
Subject: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Avona said
> > BTW, my computer is acting very strange and seems to keep losing track
> of my hard drive. So if I'm missing in action for a while, I may very
> well be adjusting it with a sledgehammer or taking it in for more
> professional repairs.
Less traumatically, *my* machine just lost its list of newsgroups. Now I've
got to download the list of all however many tens of thousands there are
before I can re-subscribe to the half dozen I care about. I wouldn't be
quite so narked but this is a development machine with NT4 and loads of
memory (etc) on it - and now I wondering what else it can lose just at a
whim. I really think this personal computer thing has been going backwards
since the Amiga. Or possibly the Spectrum. Or maybe the ZX81.
Jonathan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:20:28 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [B7L] new postal rates
Message-ID: <io47xCAsvDr4EwXN@jajones.demon.co.uk>
Royal Mail is increasing postal rates by 5 to 10% from 3 April. For zine
weights, this is likely to be more than I can easily absorb, and the
prices of my zines may have to go up. Unlike the changes last year, this
affects all postal regions. I'm going to have to sit and do some
calculations, but if I need to increase the prices I'll put the new ones
up before the change takes effect so that people have advance warning.
This may also affect Judith's newer zines. Older ones will probably be
unaffected, as it will be easier for Judith to absorb the costs on
those.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:11:55 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Message-ID: <7hgtzMAL16q4EwMh@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <38AB82DD.33DA@jps.net>, Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
writes
>I suspect the majority of fans thought she was coming into the room,
>though never shown, at the end. But here, we can take a poll.
This fan doesn't, and didn't. I thought at the time pretty much what I
later read Paul had suggested to the director - Avon knows he's going
to die, he's making sure that he dies now instead of in an interrogation
room.
>BTW, my computer is acting very strange and seems to keep losing track
>of my hard drive. So if I'm missing in action for a while, I may very
>well be adjusting it with a sledgehammer or taking it in for more
>professional repairs.
The traditional tool for a reprogramming it will never forget is in fact
a very large axe...
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:26:38 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Message-ID: <000701bf797d$13726440$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Avona wrote:
> But there *was* a Federation Commisioner on the way to Guada Prime, said
> by one of the staff where Blake was hanging out.
I don't think so - references to a representative from the High Council and
a rather vague mention of Federations 'observer(s)'. Nothing about
commissioners.
> So... well, the
> Federation was large. Surely there were at least a dozen other
> Comissioners.
Hundreds if not thousands, probably.
> Funnily enough though, in 4th season, Sleer was the only
> commissioner we saw, and she seemed to be everywhere the rebels went.
If we assume - and not unreasonably - that
(a)commissioners have responsibility for a particular chunk of space
(b) Scorpio, through being tied to Xenon base, didn't have the same freedom
to roam as Liberator
then the 4th Season makes sense as being largely set in one corner of the
galaxy, where Scorpio's range of operation overlapped with Sleer's
territory. Probably an underdeveloped backwater, on the fringes of
Federation territory.
> I suspect the majority of fans thought she was coming into the room,
> though never shown, at the end. But here, we can take a poll.
I never did, and I still don't now.
Neil
"...Lennon got in the habit of issuing vague orders for the creation of
evocative sounds (he once asked Martin to make a song sound like an
orange)."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:00:15 -0500
From: Michael Bailey <michaelabailey@netzero.net>
To: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>,
"Blake's 7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Message-ID: <38AC615D.2275A207@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Neil Faulkner wrote:
> Avona wrote:
> > But there *was* a Federation Commisioner on the way to Guada Prime, said
> > by one of the staff where Blake was hanging out.
>
> I don't think so - references to a representative from the High Council and
> a rather vague mention of Federations 'observer(s)'. Nothing about
> commissioners.
>
> > So... well, the
> > Federation was large. Surely there were at least a dozen other
> > Comissioners.
>
> Hundreds if not thousands, probably.
>
> > Funnily enough though, in 4th season, Sleer was the only
> > commissioner we saw, and she seemed to be everywhere the rebels went.
>
> If we assume - and not unreasonably - that
>
> (a)commissioners have responsibility for a particular chunk of space
> (b) Scorpio, through being tied to Xenon base, didn't have the same freedom
> to roam as Liberator
>
> then the 4th Season makes sense as being largely set in one corner of the
> galaxy, where Scorpio's range of operation overlapped with Sleer's
> territory. Probably an underdeveloped backwater, on the fringes of
> Federation territory.
>
> > I suspect the majority of fans thought she was coming into the room,
> > though never shown, at the end. But here, we can take a poll.
>
> I never did, and I still don't now.
>
> Neil
>
> "...Lennon got in the habit of issuing vague orders for the creation of
> evocative sounds (he once asked Martin to make a song sound like an
> orange)."
They arn't going to end the series with Avon saying Servalan is here. That's
what makes it so good.
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:00:31 -0500
From: Michael Bailey <michaelabailey@netzero.net>
To: Martindunne@bigpond.com, "Blake's 7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]
Message-ID: <38AC6165.67FED6B9@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Martin Dunn wrote:
> ----------
> > From: Tanja Kinkel <Angria@t-online.de>
> > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> > Subject: Re: [B7L]
> > Date: Wednesday, 16 February 2000 17:41
> >
> > Michael Bailey wrote
> > > Hi... I'm new in this list and I'm very happy to be in it...
> > > anyways...
> > >
> > > What I think happened in the last episode is:
> > >
> > > Avon killed Servalan. That distinctive smirk on his face was so obvious
> > > to me that I caught it the first time I saw it. I think the way he
> acted
> > > said it all...
> > >
> > > Anyone agree with me?..... Any different ideas?.....
> >
> > Sorry, Michael, but that's highly unlikely. First of all, Servalan wasn't
> in the
> > episode, and there was no indication by dialogue that she was behind the
> Gauda
> > Prime operation, either. Of course, in some PGP's she turns up just after
> the
> > final scene ends, but Chris Boucher, who wrote the episode "Blake", said
> she
> > wasn't on Gauda Prime, so if you want to argue by canon...
>
> I'm going to go with Michael on this one. In that he was thinking of doing
> something to Servalan, whether she was there or not.
>
> Actually, I wrote one of those PGPs in question. It goes for a page and she
> dies. The only B7 fiction I have ever written.
>
> Canon means a body of work. To me, this means the work itself, not the
> intentions of its creator/s. That is why there are so many fun
> interpretations of this series.
>
> However, I would give anything Mr. Boucher said due recognition owing to
> his priviliged insight.
> I suspect she didn't feature as Jaquelin Pearce (sp?) had been in a quota
> of episodes. Any information, Please?
>
> Previously, I have suggested this episode is of a less straightforward
> authority than the rest of the show, to me it seems like some strange
> dream. It is the one that most seems to be argued about in this context.
>
> So. Perhaps Michael could elaborate on his interpretation of this episode?
>
> --
> Martin
Yes. I would like to elaborate so here it is:
As you know, on "Blake" the crew of the Scorpio destroyed and abandoned their
base because they thought the Federation knew, but actually in the previous
episode "Warlord" Zucan actually just layed the charges in the base and didn't
tell Servalan the postition of the base. Well, after they crashed on Guada
Prime, I think seeing Servalan after that happening, after the destruction of
their base, would be a good setup, after all, she is allways behind stuff like
this. The whole synopsis of the series is about the destruction of the
Federation. As Blake said "I want to finish it completely"
There is basically no other point in the series. Servalan played a very high
rank in governing the Federation. Since most of the Federation was already
destroyed, then killing Servalan would finish the Federation. Finish it
completely, with the cost of his own life. Like he said in "Gold" The Sacrifce
might be worth while...
Well... what do you think? If you need any more ideas just ask.
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:00:26 -0500
From: Michael Bailey <michaelabailey@netzero.net>
To: "S. Kuske" <s_kuske@yahoo.com>,
"Blake's 7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: B7 Last episode
Message-ID: <38AC6162.8567EFE@netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
"S. Kuske" wrote:
> > All that being said, however, even though she could
> > have been there,
> > she wouldn't have been such a fool to go in there
> > until all the
> > rebels were dead or disarmed - including Avon. So
> > he couldn't have
> > shot her, however desirable an outcome that might
> > have been.
>
> Servalan could have entered the room believing that
> they had taken Avon alive. She would want him alive
> after all. And she would be eager to be the one to
> say "Drop that weapon, Avon. You could get hurt."
> She could easily believe that Avon would rather live
> than be shot. I do.
>
> That's right. Avon did lower his weapon and surrender
> to Servalan. A love scene ensues...
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
Another thing. Don't forget that Avon and Servalan liked eachother. It
was just the high authothority that they each played. Commander of the
Federation... Comander of the Rebllions...
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:23:29 +0100
From: Angria@t-online.de (Tanja Kinkel)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]
Message-ID: <12LYOX-0SAgeuC@fwd06.sul.t-online.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
Michael Bailey wrote:
> There is basically no other point in the series. Servalan played a very high
> rank in governing the Federation. Since most of the Federation was already
> destroyed, then killing Servalan would finish the Federation. Finish it
> completely, with the cost of his own life. Like he said in "Gold" The Sacrifce
> might be worth while...
But Servalan wasn't President anymore. She was a Commissioner who had to hide
her real identity from those who were actually governing the Federation at that
point. Her death would have changed nothing for the Federation at that point.
Even when she was still President, it might have caused much trouble, but not
changed the system. As Anna/Sula replied when her sidekick gave her the "kill
Servalan, kill the Federation" opinion: "You're not that naive, are you?"
Now what killing Servalan might accomplish in the matter of personal
satisfaction for Avon is an alltogether different matter. Especially if he had
nothing to lose anymore. As Servalan replied in "Gold", he's not the sacrificial
type... except when there is no hope anymore anyway.
Still, personally I don't believe Servalan was there in this room. Mind you,
some of the PGP's which have her responsible for the whole Gauda Prime thing I
really loved, so if the fanfic is written well enough, I can believe it for the
duration of reading it, but in general... no. Just compare it with her other
traps. She never can resist giving Avon some clues precisely because he's the
only one who can appreciate it, and she wants him to know she's behind it each
time she traps him. He gave no sign of suspecting her this time. Well, he had
his mind on his other obsession, Blake, but we're all only speculating here
anyway. It's fun, though, isn't it... how different you can interpret this final
scene?
Tanja
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:43:21 -0000
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Message-ID: <000801bf7990$03e739c0$cc65063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: Helen Krummenacker <
>I suspect the majority of fans thought she was coming into the room,
>though never shown, at the end. But here, we can take a poll.
I always liked the irony that she wasn't there, she didn't know and the crew
just inevitably fell foul of a competent and ambitious Federation agent. So
I'll vote that she was not there.
Of course, after seeing Animals a short while ago, I did suggest another
background mind control plot for the entire 4th series which kind of
suggests she might be closing in for the kill once she realises Avon has
finally found Blake for her.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:02:20 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Wu names
Message-ID: <200002171703_MC2-999B-95D4@compuserve.com>
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charset=ISO-8859-1
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Pat Patera suggested that
>2) Ol' Filthy Sweaty Bastard
... is Egrorian
Sounds more like Grose, the nasty trooper on Moloch, to me...
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:35:43 EST
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Wu names
Message-ID: <17.1f2c393.25dddfcf@aol.com>
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In a message dated 02/17/2000 4:05:45 PM Central Standard Time,
101637.2064@compuserve.com writes:
> Pat Patera suggested that
> >2) Ol' Filthy Sweaty Bastard
> ... is Egrorian
>
> Sounds more like Grose, the nasty trooper on Moloch, to me...
Or Doran.
Tiger M
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:27:40 -0500
From: Michael Bailey <michaelabailey@netzero.net>
To: Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>,
"Blake's 7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Message-ID: <38AC91FC.26708C23@netzero.net>
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Andrew Ellis wrote:
> From: Helen Krummenacker <
>
> >I suspect the majority of fans thought she was coming into the room,
> >though never shown, at the end. But here, we can take a poll.
>
> I always liked the irony that she wasn't there, she didn't know and the crew
> just inevitably fell foul of a competent and ambitious Federation agent. So
> I'll vote that she was not there.
>
> Of course, after seeing Animals a short while ago, I did suggest another
> background mind control plot for the entire 4th series which kind of
> suggests she might be closing in for the kill once she realises Avon has
> finally found Blake for her.
>
> Andrew
hmm.. that's interresting... nice ideas
Michael
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:25:39 -0500
From: Michael Bailey <michaelabailey@netzero.net>
To: Tanja Kinkel <Angria@t-online.de>,
"Blake's 7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]
Message-ID: <38AC9183.B60617DD@netzero.net>
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Tanja Kinkel wrote:
> Michael Bailey wrote:
>
> > There is basically no other point in the series. Servalan played a very high
> > rank in governing the Federation. Since most of the Federation was already
> > destroyed, then killing Servalan would finish the Federation. Finish it
> > completely, with the cost of his own life. Like he said in "Gold" The Sacrifce
> > might be worth while...
>
> But Servalan wasn't President anymore. She was a Commissioner who had to hide
> her real identity from those who were actually governing the Federation at that
> point. Her death would have changed nothing for the Federation at that point.
> Even when she was still President, it might have caused much trouble, but not
> changed the system. As Anna/Sula replied when her sidekick gave her the "kill
> Servalan, kill the Federation" opinion: "You're not that naive, are you?"
>
> Now what killing Servalan might accomplish in the matter of personal
> satisfaction for Avon is an alltogether different matter. Especially if he had
> nothing to lose anymore. As Servalan replied in "Gold", he's not the sacrificial
> type... except when there is no hope anymore anyway.
>
> Still, personally I don't believe Servalan was there in this room. Mind you,
> some of the PGP's which have her responsible for the whole Gauda Prime thing I
> really loved, so if the fanfic is written well enough, I can believe it for the
> duration of reading it, but in general... no. Just compare it with her other
> traps. She never can resist giving Avon some clues precisely because he's the
> only one who can appreciate it, and she wants him to know she's behind it each
> time she traps him. He gave no sign of suspecting her this time. Well, he had
> his mind on his other obsession, Blake, but we're all only speculating here
> anyway. It's fun, though, isn't it... how different you can interpret this final
> scene?
>
> Tanja
Even though she was commisioner, she still possessed great power and controled many
forces. He also could have killed her (if that's what happened) because of revenge.
Such as in Gold and the profit that she made. But anyways, the writers of Blake's 7
had no fear in making something devistating happen. Compare it to Startrek. Would
they blow up the enterprise? No way they would be stuck in a time warp or something.
After the destruction of the Liberator, he proboly got more angry and so did
Servalan (because she lost the ship) and so maybe she wanted to kill him in person.
But anyways it is fun contemplating. You're right... keep the idea going... I sure
will!
Michael
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 20:07:16 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: re [B7L] The Surrender
Message-ID: <20000217.200725.-182829.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
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On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:03:14 -0500 Michael Bailey
<michaelabailey@netzero.net> writes:
> "Ellynne G." wrote:
>
The effectiveness of the
> Quakers
> > fight against slavery in 19th century America, for example, was
> directly
> > based on their ability to _hide people_ and _evacuate them_.
> >
> hmmm... Interresting... any more information?
>
> Michael
>
They had significant involvment in the Underground Railroad, helping
slaves escape from the South to the North and, later on, into Canada.
Belief-wise, they were motivated by their belief that slavery was wrong
and also in their belief that individuals are ultimately responsible to
their own conscience and God. Hence, they would and did disobey laws they
felt conflicted with God's law. They also believed that violence was
wrong.
Consequently, they weren't about to lead an armed rebellion, but this
also limited their range of defenses if they were discovered helping
runaway slaves. If fighting to escape is out, you have to be pretty sure
that you either get away before the enemy shows up or (better yet) the
enemy doesn't show up.
Now, look at this. They're in the great outdoors in what is an official
no man's land. It's probably not as ignored as some people like to
suppose, but do you really think the back-to-nature outsiders have never
noticed whether Federation troops hang out there ("Hey, look,
Pseudo-caveman Bob, isn't that a highly conspicuous Federation guard
wandering around our secret meeting place and making a map?" "Nah, it's
probably just Pseudo-caveman Rob, dressed up for Halloween again.")? And
what about decent lookouts and an exit route (much less plans to use it)?
Then there's the whole issue of bringing everyone together like this when
they're still not sure about _Blake's_ loyalties. Successful
undergrounds thrive on limiting how many people an individual can
betray--especially when you're not sure whose side the individual's on.
As for discussing their liberation plans in front of him in _detail_ ....
Amateurs. Complete, absolute, amateurs. I wouldn't put these people in
charge of a pot luck.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:33:31 EST
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
To: freedom-city@blakes-7.org, Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] New goodies at Ashton Press, B7 stuff on eBay
Message-ID: <63.1ef9ee3.25de178b@aol.com>
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(Apologies for the crosspost. I never know where to "catch" folks these days!)
There have been major updates at all of our websites over the last week or
two.
First off, we've updated our Ebay home page with some new photos for your
viewing pleasure (Christopher Lambert fans take note of one of them!), as
well as many new items listed over the last several days (and more to come).
Fans of Blakes 7, Robin of Sherwood, The Professionals, Celtic artwork,
Harrison Ford and many more fandoms will find good browsing:
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/ashton7
Next, in honor of winter, Leah has done two new cartoons. They are related to
one another and you'll find one of them at Ashton Press:
http://members.aol.com/ashton7/ashton.htm
The other one, aka Cassandra's Revenge, can be found at Donan Woods. While
you're there, you'll also find that we've updated the news regarding Tracy
Scoggins, updated the Fan Fiction on the Web page, *and* added many new
reviews to the Fan Fiction Reviews page. All of these changes are noted on
the first page and linked. So, please enjoy the new cartoon and reviews at:
http://members.aol.com/methosela/cass.htm
We've also posted lots of new fan fiction for your reading pleasure (well, we
hope it's a pleasure!). You'll find a few new Highlander stories at our main
fan fiction site:
http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
*And* we are also now hosting a website fan fiction archive for Alias Smith &
Jones stories (I know there are fans of the great old Western out there!). To
go directly to that archive:
http://members.aol.com/asjfansfiction/fanfic.htm
There is also an Adult fan fiction archive and it is linked to the main
archive.
Annie Wortham
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 23:17:35 PST
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Message-ID: <20000218071735.41167.qmail@hotmail.com>
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Sorry, no, mainly 'coz I don't want her within a billion miles of it…to have
Servalan's campy villainy as any part of 'Blake' would cheapen the tragedy
for me and ruin the whole episode. Two reasons – first, this one's about
Blake and Avon, not about her personal (and bloody petty and boring IMHO)
vendetta against the Scorpio crew. And second, it brings the whole series
*back* from said personal fight to what it was in the beginning – them
against the regime rather than one ex-President,
She doesn't belong here. At all.
That smile..? I've always thought of it as ironic – perhaps he's thinking
way, waaayyy back to when he asked Jenna "do you want to be rich or dead?"
at a point where he's come to find death as the best option left.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:39:18 -0000
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Q-study results: a brief addendum
Message-ID: <015f01bf79f4$0e1b3b30$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Iain wrote:
> In an idle moment, I did a bit of number-crunching based on the data in
> Una's Q-study paper. Not one to let a piece of data analysis go to waste,
> I thought I'd share the results with you chaps.
I'm glad to see you haven't been wasting your time on frivolities.
If you'd asked nicely, I'd done the averaging scores myself, but shamelessly
suppressed them because 'Animals' did so badly. I like the range scores -
they're very interesting to have summarized. I think I had a gut feeling
about which ones would appear, but it's good to see it clarified.
> The high score of "Aftermath" surprised me. This episode is only unpopular
> with account 3 (A Little Bit of Politics): its combination of Avon drool,
> reinventing the new character dynamics, wrapping up the Andromedan War and
> much camp posturing clearly offer different treats to all the other
> accounts.
It's also an episode in which Blake is mentioned a great deal - that dynamic
is still going on to some extent. I guess it doesn't do so well with account
3 because it isn't that accomplished an episode: 'Powerplay' would be more
satisfying in that respect.
> It is confirmed: "Animals" is the worst Blake's 7 story ever.
Hmmph. Purely a subjective opinion. People may *think* and *agree* it's the
worst B7 story ever, but you're all just suffering from false consciousness.
> MOST VARIABLE
>
> Sarcophagus (1.4, 10)
> The Web (-2, 8)
> Games (-1, 8)
> The Way Back, Cygnus Alpha, Deliverance, Sand, Blake (all range 7)
Now these are very interesting - I think these really sum up the radically
different ways in which people can watch and interpret a single episode: one
person's brilliantly conceived start to a series is another person's
Avon-less episode.
Thanks for all this Iain - very interesting indeed. Glad the data holds up
to scrutiny!
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:08:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: re [B7L] The Surrender
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000218100706.21784A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Ellynne G. wrote:
>
> Now, look at this. They're in the great outdoors in what is an official
> no man's land. It's probably not as ignored as some people like to
> suppose, but do you really think the back-to-nature outsiders have never
> noticed whether Federation troops hang out there ("Hey, look,
> Pseudo-caveman Bob, isn't that a highly conspicuous Federation guard
> wandering around our secret meeting place and making a map?" "Nah, it's
> probably just Pseudo-caveman Rob, dressed up for Halloween again.")? And
> what about decent lookouts and an exit route (much less plans to use it)?
Presumably the security arrangements had been placed in the hands
of their most reliable, committed and sensible member: good old Dev
Tarrant.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:18:44 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Q-study results: a brief addendum
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000218115744.21784B-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 18 Feb 2000, Una McCormack wrote:
> Iain wrote:
>
> > In an idle moment, I did a bit of number-crunching based on the data in
> > Una's Q-study paper. Not one to let a piece of data analysis go to waste,
> > I thought I'd share the results with you chaps.
>
> I'm glad to see you haven't been wasting your time on frivolities.
I did the sums around noon on Saturday. It was either that or get dressed.
>
> If you'd asked nicely, I'd done the averaging scores myself, but shamelessly
> suppressed them because 'Animals' did so badly.
Aha! I suspected as much. I did think you probably had the averages around
somewhere, but it was quicker just to calculate them myself than to phone
you up and bully you into rooting through your notes.
I like the range scores -
> they're very interesting to have summarized. I think I had a gut feeling
> about which ones would appear, but it's good to see it clarified.
>
Quantitative analysis is so much more satisfying than intuition, isn't it?
"I'm right, because I've done lots of sums and you haven't! So there!
Bwahahahaha!"
>
> > The high score of "Aftermath" surprised me. This episode is only unpopular
> > with account 3 (A Little Bit of Politics): its combination of Avon drool,
> > reinventing the new character dynamics, wrapping up the Andromedan War and
> > much camp posturing clearly offer different treats to all the other
> > accounts.
>
> It's also an episode in which Blake is mentioned a great deal - that dynamic
> is still going on to some extent. I guess it doesn't do so well with account
> 3 because it isn't that accomplished an episode: 'Powerplay' would be more
> satisfying in that respect.
>
>
Yes. (Note to the general reader: I was an 'account 3' respondent.)
"Surprise" is a rather mild word to describe my reaction to "Aftermath"'s
high score. "Aftermath" is many things, but 50 minutes of good TV it is
not.
>
> > It is confirmed: "Animals" is the worst Blake's 7 story ever.
>
> Hmmph. Purely a subjective opinion. People may *think* and *agree* it's the
> worst B7 story ever, but you're all just suffering from false consciousness.
>
So you're the only sane one of the lot of us?
>
> > MOST VARIABLE
> >
> > Sarcophagus (1.4, 10)
> > The Web (-2, 8)
> > Games (-1, 8)
> > The Way Back, Cygnus Alpha, Deliverance, Sand, Blake (all range 7)
>
> Now these are very interesting - I think these really sum up the radically
> different ways in which people can watch and interpret a single episode: one
> person's brilliantly conceived start to a series is another person's
> Avon-less episode.
>
Indeed: or, as seemed quite common, one person's tight and grittyaction
piece is another's po-faced humourless runaround.
> Thanks for all this Iain - very interesting indeed. Glad the data holds up
> to scrutiny!
>
You will go giving me data - consequent analysis is only to be expected.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:02:56 -0000
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Q-study results: a brief addendum
Message-ID: <002901bf7a29$a4243f70$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Iain/me:
> I like the range scores -
> > they're very interesting to have summarized. I think I had a gut feeling
> > about which ones would appear, but it's good to see it clarified.
> >
>
> Quantitative analysis is so much more satisfying than intuition, isn't it?
> "I'm right, because I've done lots of sums and you haven't! So there!
> Bwahahahaha!"
Alternatively, '*You* did all those sums to reach a conclusion which *I*
already knew! Bwaha! Bwahahahaha!'
> > > The high score of "Aftermath" surprised me. This episode is only
unpopular
> > > with account 3 (A Little Bit of Politics): its combination of Avon
drool,
> > > reinventing the new character dynamics, wrapping up the Andromedan War
and
> > > much camp posturing clearly offer different treats to all the other
> > > accounts.
> >
> > It's also an episode in which Blake is mentioned a great deal - that
dynamic
> > is still going on to some extent. I guess it doesn't do so well with
account
> > 3 because it isn't that accomplished an episode: 'Powerplay' would be
more
> > satisfying in that respect.
>
> Yes. (Note to the general reader: I was an 'account 3' respondent.)
> "Surprise" is a rather mild word to describe my reaction to "Aftermath"'s
> high score. "Aftermath" is many things, but 50 minutes of good TV it is
> not.
'Aftermath' is an episode about which I think, 'I'd *really* like to watch
"Aftermath"...' Then I put it on, and remember that it's actually
'Powerplay' I want to watch. I do like watching the series recast itself,
and it has sentimental associations, as it's the first episode I watched and
started this whole bloody thing in the first place. The first parts on the
Liberator manage to feel like season 2, which is always a plus, and I love
the bits of Avon making contact with Zen. Then it all collapses into tedious
runabout. However, that leather jacket is Avon's best costume.
But the whole show should really have gone in a completely different
direction at this point <sigh> I'd rather have seen the revolution on Earth
and more of Blake and Avon fighting. Ideally with pretty much the same
conclusion.
Anyone out there a real 'Aftermath' aficionado?
> > > It is confirmed: "Animals" is the worst Blake's 7 story ever.
> >
> > Hmmph. Purely a subjective opinion. People may *think* and *agree* it's
the
> > worst B7 story ever, but you're all just suffering from false
consciousness.
>
> So you're the only sane one of the lot of us?
You said it.
Una
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