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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 44
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L]
[B7L] Wu names
Re: [B7L]
[B7L] Gauda Prime
re [B7L] The Surrender
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #43
Last Episode (was Re: [B7L])
Re: [B7L] Grand Opening
[B7L] Final Episode - Did Avon Kill Servalan?
Re: [B7L]
Re: re [B7L] The Surrender
[B7L] Odd quotes
Re: [B7L]
[B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Re: [B7L] Final Episode - Did Avon Kill Servalan?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 08:50:50 -0000
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "Blake's 7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]
Message-ID: <036801bf785a$f43ea840$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Hi Michael,
> Hi... I'm new in this list and I'm very happy to be in it...
> anyways...
Welcome to the list.
> What I think happened in the last episode is:
>
> Avon killed Servalan. That distinctive smirk on his face was so obvious
> to me that I caught it the first time I saw it. I think the way he acted
> said it all...
>
> Anyone agree with me?..... Any different ideas?.....
This was an explanation popular with me and my friends at the time. We just
couldn't believe that Servie wasn't there to gloat, and that Avon didn't
finish her off before he got done over.
However, I think I now prefer the smirk to be a sort of: 'Well, you just
never know how the day's going to turn out...' expression.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:11:31 -0800
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Wu names
Message-ID: <38AAE853.D8A0F6EB@netzero.net>
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Susie wrote:
>Our cats came up as 1) Grand Moff Puppeteer, 2) Ol' Filthy Sweaty Bastard and 3) Undiscovered Bum.
>This is too silly. Stop this sketch....
Actually, these are far better cat names than human names. Do they suit
your cats?
They also make great B7 character names:
1) is Carnell
2) is Egrorian
3) is ... Vila!
:-D
Pat
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:39:41 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]
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On Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:31:54 -0500 Michael Bailey
<michaelabailey@netzero.net> writes:
> Hi... I'm new in this list and I'm very happy to be in it...
> anyways...
>
> What I think happened in the last episode is:
>
> Avon killed Servalan. That distinctive smirk on his face was so
> obvious
> to me that I caught it the first time I saw it. I think the way he
> acted
> said it all...
>
> Anyone agree with me?..... Any different ideas?.....
>
Well, it's about time Servalan's need to come in and be smug blew up in
her face, and it certainly should be Avon who gets to do the honors.
Ellynne
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:22:37 -0800
From: Pat Patera <patpatera@netzero.net>
To: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Gauda Prime
Message-ID: <38AAEAED.3BE1F7C7@netzero.net>
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Michael wrote
> Hi... I'm new in this list and I'm very happy to be in it...
Welcome. Don't be shy.
> What I think happened in the last episode is:
> Avon killed Servalan. That distinctive smirk on his face was so obvious
> to me that I caught it the first time I saw it. I think the way he acted
> said it all...
Tanja wrote:
>Sorry, Michael, but that's highly unlikely. First of all, Servalan wasn't in the
>episode, and there was no indication by dialogue that she was behind the Gauda
>Prime operation, either. Of course, in some PGP's she turns up just after the
>final scene ends, but Chris Boucher, who wrote the episode "Blake", said she
>wasn't on Gauda Prime, so if you want to argue by canon...
Oh, bother canon. Since when did any PGP (that's Post-Gauda Prime) zine
story bother about canon? If we stuck to canon, there would be no PGP
because, *obviously* EVERYBODY IS DEAD!!!
Michael, I'm soldily with you. Sleer was behind the whole set up. Avon
smelled her like a rat from the beginning, much as Xena is able to sense
the presence of the God of War Ares - almost like the tingle of oozone
in the air - before he appears.
Avon's enigmatic smile is a self congratulatory smirk: saying silently,
when Sleer steps through that door (now that all the nasty rebels are
dead and it's safe to come out) to *gloat* (oh! how that evil villian
loves to gloat!) 'yeah Servie, I knew you were behind this debacle
somehow - what a game of cat & mouse we've played!) And he raises his
gun - much to her surprise! - and plugs her right between the eyes.
Pat
P.S. Penny, condolences on the sad news re: the Travis costume. But hey,
what a way to go!
http://www.geocities.com/area51/1707
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:36:44 -0000
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: re [B7L] The Surrender
Message-ID: <005301bf78b5$621c51a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Re the various comments by Ellynne, Pat etc, I spent much of my student
years on the fringes of various causes where non-violence was axiomatic, or
indeed dogmatic. Indeed, one of the deeper schisms in some of these groups
(Animal Rights especially) was over the legitimacy of violent protest, and
each faction tended to look down on the other more than they did on the
common enemy. There was a certain artificiality about this absolutist
rejection of violence (remembering the evening I and a fellow self-declared
vegan pacifist indulged our mutual passion for Clint Eastwood shoot-em-ups)
but we believed it at the time. Of course, we weren't up against the
Federation, only the British police (not normally the ruthless thugs we
liked to think they were, though they do have their moments), but Bran
Foster's simplistic pacifist position comes across as very much like our own
at that time - a conscious, deliberate repudiation of violence because it is
violent, and hence 'wrong'. Claiming some kind of moral high ground was a
corollary of this, not the primary motivation, and though I think most of us
privately thought of ourselves as the moral superiors of the system we were
(largely ineffectually) opposing, we claimed that moral superiority for our
beliefs rather than ourselves. (Our willing subordination to those various
causes was very important at the time, though in retrospect I'd say we'd
made up our minds to have our minds made up for us. Not unlike fascists, in
some ways, only somewhat nicer.)
Neil
"...Lennon got in the habit of issuing vague orders for the creation of
evocative sounds (he once asked Martin to make a song sound like an
orange)."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:38:53 -0500
From: Michael Bailey <michaelabailey@netzero.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #43
Message-ID: <38AAFCCC.1C926305@netzero.net>
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When I said:
What I think happened in the last episode is:
>
> Avon killed Servalan. That distinctive smirk on his face was so
obvious
> to me that I caught it the first time I saw it. I think the way he
acted
> said it all...
>
I meant that the whole series meant him and Servalan. Rebellions against
the Federation. Leader against leader. He even said in the episode
"Gold" That it would be worth it to die killing her. It's at the end of
the episode. I have no other explanation... I still enjoy reading all of
your ideas though, and I respet all those who disagree...
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 07:11:57 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Last Episode (was Re: [B7L])
Message-ID: <20000217071157.A1487@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 08:11:19AM +0100, Tanja Kinkel wrote:
> Michael Bailey wrote
> > What I think happened in the last episode is:
> >
> > Avon killed Servalan. That distinctive smirk on his face was so obvious
> > to me that I caught it the first time I saw it. I think the way he acted
> > said it all...
> >
> > Anyone agree with me?..... Any different ideas?.....
>
> Sorry, Michael, but that's highly unlikely. First of all, Servalan wasn't in the
> episode, and there was no indication by dialogue that she was behind the Gauda
> Prime operation, either. Of course, in some PGP's she turns up just after the
> final scene ends, but Chris Boucher, who wrote the episode "Blake", said she
> wasn't on Gauda Prime, so if you want to argue by canon...
To be pedantic here, *canon* consists of what we saw on the screen,
not what anybody said, even if they wrote the episode, directed it, or
played one of the parts. Such supporting evidence can only tell us
what the *intent* was, it cannot tell us what actually happened.
Servalan not being on Gauda Prime isn't cannonical. It's just
*likely* that she wasn't on GP, but we don't *know* that she wasn't.
We just happened not to see her in the episode.
All that being said, however, even though she could have been there,
she wouldn't have been such a fool to go in there until all the
rebels were dead or disarmed - including Avon. So he couldn't have
shot her, however desirable an outcome that might have been.
> Avon's smirk at the end: there are lots of interpretations around, but I'd go
> with the one that he knew his fate finally was settled and that they wouldn't
> catch him alive. It also always reminded me of the way he laughed in Horizon
> when he does have the opportunity to escape with the Liberator on his own but
> instead decides to go down and rescue Blake & the others.
I agree, it's an ironical smile. A grimace. Probably a suicidal
grimace, as he was about to start shooting troopers and be gunned down
in return. IMHO, he's the most likely to be dead. IMHO, they're all
dead - but, as my "This is the way the world ends" article says (on my
B7 web page, plug, plug) that isn't going to stop anybody writing a
PGP from deciding that *any* combination of characters is actually
alive. People seem to pick their favourites, and manufacture reasons
to fit. And I don't care, so long as the story is well-written.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:48:46 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Grand Opening
Message-ID: <200002161948_MC2-996E-811D@compuserve.com>
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Neil commented on the new Blake's 7 gallery at Judith's:
>Impressive. Most impressive (he said, deliberately lifting
> a quote from Darth Vader rather than anything Blakey)
So will you be joining the party in the Gents'?
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:17:44 -0800
From: Susie Wright <piscescat@home.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Final Episode - Did Avon Kill Servalan?
Message-ID: <38AB4C37.FC42593E@home.com>
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Hi Michael,
Intriguing idea...care to elaborate? However, I agree with Tanja's
assessment. Seems to me he had nothing left to lose and why not smile
at the irony of it all. Avon was a complete psychological mess by the
end anyway... he'd have smiled at anything I imagine.
I'm still not finished with Muir's book... but I did peek at his
comments for "Blake" and Muir thinks Avon realized in the final moment
that Blake was right all along and that he (Avon) should've done things
differently. I don't agree with that, but it's an interesting thought.
I do like that Muir takes the series as the development of Avon as the
lead character even with it being called "Blake's 7."
Susie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:46:44 +1030
From: "Martin Dunn" <Martindunne@bigpond.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]
Message-Id: <04455855577917@domain2.bigpond.com>
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----------
> From: Tanja Kinkel <Angria@t-online.de>
> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
> Subject: Re: [B7L]
> Date: Wednesday, 16 February 2000 17:41
>
> Michael Bailey wrote
> > Hi... I'm new in this list and I'm very happy to be in it...
> > anyways...
> >
> > What I think happened in the last episode is:
> >
> > Avon killed Servalan. That distinctive smirk on his face was so obvious
> > to me that I caught it the first time I saw it. I think the way he
acted
> > said it all...
> >
> > Anyone agree with me?..... Any different ideas?.....
>
> Sorry, Michael, but that's highly unlikely. First of all, Servalan wasn't
in the
> episode, and there was no indication by dialogue that she was behind the
Gauda
> Prime operation, either. Of course, in some PGP's she turns up just after
the
> final scene ends, but Chris Boucher, who wrote the episode "Blake", said
she
> wasn't on Gauda Prime, so if you want to argue by canon...
I'm going to go with Michael on this one. In that he was thinking of doing
something to Servalan, whether she was there or not.
Actually, I wrote one of those PGPs in question. It goes for a page and she
dies. The only B7 fiction I have ever written.
Canon means a body of work. To me, this means the work itself, not the
intentions of its creator/s. That is why there are so many fun
interpretations of this series.
However, I would give anything Mr. Boucher said due recognition owing to
his priviliged insight.
I suspect she didn't feature as Jaquelin Pearce (sp?) had been in a quota
of episodes. Any information, Please?
Previously, I have suggested this episode is of a less straightforward
authority than the rest of the show, to me it seems like some strange
dream. It is the one that most seems to be argued about in this context.
So. Perhaps Michael could elaborate on his interpretation of this episode?
--
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 22:07:31 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: re [B7L] The Surrender
Message-ID: <20000216.223114.-217241.1.Rilliara@juno.com>
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On Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:36:44 -0000 "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
writes:
but
> Bran
> Foster's simplistic pacifist position comes across as very much like
> our own
> at that time - a conscious, deliberate repudiation of violence
> because it is
> violent, and hence 'wrong'. Claiming some kind of moral high ground
> was a
> corollary of this, not the primary motivation, and though I think
> most of us
> privately thought of ourselves as the moral superiors of the system
> we were
> (largely ineffectually) opposing, we claimed that moral superiority
> for our
> beliefs rather than ourselves.
Yeah, what bugs me about that episode is that, while I'm willing to
respect pacifistic beliefs, I do expect a little logical or ethical
grounding for them. These people never really did seem to have that. Or
other necessary parts of a gme plan. The effectiveness of the Quakers
fight against slavery in 19th century America, for example, was directly
based on their ability to _hide people_ and _evacuate them_.
Ellynne
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 22:31:07 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Odd quotes
Message-ID: <20000216.223114.-217241.2.Rilliara@juno.com>
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Sorry, I'm in that odd, try and tie the quote to B7 mood again. These are
also, once again, from Cordwainer Smith.
"Come along, little man, she thought. Come along little man, and die.
Don't keep me waiting."
OK, so I don't know who in B7 would say this. I'm sure Vila hears this
line in his nightmares.
And here's one for Tarrant (only change the word 'child' to female)--
"I cannot do it," he whined. "What have you done to me?"
"I have done nothing to you. You do not wish to kill a child and I look
to you like a child. Besides, I think you love me. If this is so, it must
be very uncomfortable for you."
And, just because I can imagine a B7 character having this matter of fact
attitude to trouble--
"I can tell that you will not digest your food if you sit here waiting
for bad news. When I said you had to do something worse than killing, I
suppose I was speaking from a woman's point of view. We have a homicidal
maniac in the house. He is a house guest .... That means we cannot expel
him or kill him, though he is almost as immortal as I am."
All right, a B7 'woman's point of view' involves guns and explosives, but
tell me that's not a great hook.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:58:28 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L]
Message-ID: <20000216.223114.-217241.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
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On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:46:44 +1030 "Martin Dunn"
<Martindunne@bigpond.com> writes:
> I suspect she [Servalan] didn't feature as Jaquelin Pearce (sp?) had
been in a
> quota
> of episodes. Any information, Please?
From what I've read, I understand the contract would have allowed them to
get her for this, but that they decided there just wasn't room in the
time they were working with to work her into the story in a credible
fashion. I read something where Ms. Pearce (I'm not sure of the spelling
either at the moment) said she thought they could have had Servalan come
in right at the end to smirk over Avon.
Deja vu ....
>
> Previously, I have suggested this episode is of a less
> straightforward
> authority than the rest of the show, to me it seems like some
> strange
> dream. It is the one that most seems to be argued about in this
> context.
>
> So. Perhaps Michael could elaborate on his interpretation of this
> episode?
Well, this is just _my_ opinion, but I think they hit that little
doomsday device and went back in time 13 seconds, which is one full
season in DVD time, leaving Avon the only one who knew what had happened
and who had to spend the whole season acting from motives the rest of the
crew couldn't understand and couldn't explain as he tried to head off all
the trouble he _knew_ they were going to get into.
In short, pretty much like always as far as character interaction goes.
Ellynne
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 22:10:54 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Servalan or Not Servalan?
Message-ID: <38AB82DD.33DA@jps.net>
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Angria said:
Servalan wasn't in the
episode, and there was no indication by dialogue that she was behind the
Gauda
Prime operation, either. Of course, in some PGP's she turns up just
after the
final scene ends, but Chris Boucher, who wrote the episode "Blake", said
she
wasn't on Gauda Prime, so if you want to argue by canon...
But there *was* a Federation Commisioner on the way to Guada Prime, said
by one of the staff where Blake was hanging out. So... well, the
Federation was large. Surely there were at least a dozen other
Comissioners. Funnily enough though, in 4th season, Sleer was the only
commissioner we saw, and she seemed to be everywhere the rebels went.
And it could be argued with hairsplitting-- Servalan wasn't there; Sleer
was.
I suspect the majority of fans thought she was coming into the room,
though never shown, at the end. But here, we can take a poll.
BTW, my computer is acting very strange and seems to keep losing track
of my hard drive. So if I'm missing in action for a while, I may very
well be adjusting it with a sledgehammer or taking it in for more
professional repairs.
--Avona
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:10:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Final Episode - Did Avon Kill Servalan?
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000217101014.13602A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 16 Feb 2000, Susie Wright wrote:
> I do like that Muir takes the series as the development of Avon as the
> lead character even with it being called "Blake's 7."
Ah. A "Beautiful Suffering" account, then.
Iain
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #44
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