From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #296 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/296 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 296 Today's Topics: [B7L] Gareth photos [ Judith Proctor ] [B7L] Re:The good twin [ Helen Krummenacker ] [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief [ Helen Krummenacker ] [B7L] Re:Avon as loner [ Helen Krummenacker ] Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (part 1) [ "Sally Manton" ] Re: [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief [ Betty Ragan ] Re: [B7L] Re:Avon as loner [ Betty Ragan ] Re: [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief [ Kathryn Andersen To: Lysator List Cc: Freedom City Subject: [B7L] Gareth photos Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Here's the relevent numbers from the contact sheets. I've only listed ones that I felt were good pictures, but there's quite a lot of them. I've picked out a few particular favourites with 'recommended', but all the ones listed here were selected from a much larger original set. (I hope to goodness I copied the numbers down correctly - they're quite hard to read sometimes): A Midsummer Night's Dream Black and White sheet 8 2 - full length Oberon and Puck with full moon in background (I think this is the one I have on the web site - recommended) 10 - Oberon and Puck - 1/2 height 26 - Oberon and Titania 3/4 height sheet 7 3 - Oberon and Titania - heads back to back 11- Oberon half-holding Titania 23 - full length - Oberon facing Titania sheet 11 4 - Puck holding sword at Oberon's throat. sheet 6 0 - Theseus and Hippolyta - full length 7 - Theseus with another man 3/4 length 11 - Oberon and Puck view the sleepers in the wood. Colour sheet F 31 - Oberon and Titania full length 34 - Theseus and a group of people sheet C 33 - Oberon and PUck sheet D 12 - Oberon and the sleepers sheet A 21 - OBeron and Puck laughing, heads only - recommended 7 - Titania's head resting on Oberon's back - recommended 10 - Oberon and Titania - heads close together - almost kissing Dear Brutus Colour sheet G 33 - Dearth - head and torso - looking up sheet C 21 - Dearth with a lady dressed in white - full length sheet B 14 - Dearth and daughter, full length - looks as though he's trying to shield her from something sheet A 28 - Dearth and daughter - 3/4 length - recommended 13 - Dearth and daughter 1/2 length, laughing Black and white sheet 3 27 Dearth and daughter, 3/4 length, playful sheet 4 24 Dearth and daughter sitting under the moon, full length 28 Dearth holding daughter - full length sheet 5 21 - Dearth holding cigar, 3/4 length sheet 2 17 - Dearth and daughter, 3/4 length, sitting, looking happy - recommended To order *colour* photos, write to Marketing, Nottingham Playhouse, Wellington Circus, Nottingham, NG1 5AF. You will need to quote the name of the play, the sheet number and the photo number. The cost is: 5x7 = 1.85 pounds 8x10 = 3.25 12x16 = 9.35 There's no mention of any extra cost for postage. Cheques must be payable to "Nottingham Theatre Trust Ltd" To order *Black and white* photos, write to Robert Day, 69 Park Grove, Derby, DE22 1HG. You need to quote the name of the play, the sheet number and the photo number. Costs are: 7x5 = 3 pounds 10x8 = 4.25 pounds 16x12 = 9.50 20x16 = 15 For orders including sizes upto 10x8 add 80p P+P For orders including sizes upto 20x16 add 1.70 pounds P+P Cheques payable to "Robert Day". If overseas fans want photos and have currency problems, contact me and I'll see if I can help. Please use your common sense and add a pound or so extra for overseas postage (for colours and black and white) as overseas prices aren't quoted. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 100 13:46:26 +0000 From: huh@ccm.net To: b7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...) Message-Id: <200010231846.e9NIkQP26426@ccm.net> > Sounds more to me like an arrogant big-nosed bastard sneering down his snoot > at the brainless riffraff whose company he hav to kepe ect. > > Neil finally, an Avon character analysis I can agree with whole heartedly. always struck me as a distant contained sort of man who thinks of himself as superior to all and would prefer to associate only with his level- which almost no one else is on. ----------------------------------------------------- This message was sent via the CCMnet Mailman. Visit our website: http://www.ccm.net ------------------------------ Date: 23 Oct 00 12:36:10 PDT From: Jacqui Speel To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [[B7L] I didnt say he *paid* for them ...] Message-ID: <20001023193610.22103.qmail@wwcst088.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And who would collect all the 'fast food shop free gifties'? "Sally Manton" wrote: A question. Who else thinks that Vila would pick up all sorts of dreadfu= l, = wonderful souvenirs on all the more civilised planets we *don't* see Our = Heroes visiting? ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home= =2Enetscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:48:30 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Neil wrote: But I'm sure you can fix that if you try ... :-) Now which of us all said that? Carol thinks they're all good friends (at least the post-War lot); I said he's indifferent to most of 'em (except as sounding boards/targets/possibly-useful tools. Though Marian (if I recall the start of this) did say he's a natural loner ... I like this (Neil, you should play in more character threads - you usually *do* say quite a lot I like). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:58:41 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed huh wrote: Seriously though ... that doesn't explain why he gets on so much better with Vila than nearly anyone else, despite the fact that (love them both as I do) they are a loooonnng way apart on an intellectual level. Of course, sneering at Vila is one of Avon's best games (at least from late 1st season through to Terminal, where one can argue it's in fun. After that it gets a bit cold and really nasty - see Assassin). Avon's natural habitat (IMHO) would be the information technology section of a university (I work with some of these extremmely august IT professors, and while they dress worse and are for the most part far sunnier people, talking to them sometimes is like listening to Avon when he's got something to show off). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:41:57 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: b7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...) Message-ID: In message <001801c03d1a$11be44a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>, Neil Faulkner writes >Y'know, it's rather fun watching a bit of fur flying around on the Lyst >whilst knowing that just for once I had nothing to do with it:) > I was thinking the very same thing... > >Sounds more to me like an arrogant big-nosed bastard sneering down his snoot >at the brainless riffraff whose company he hav to kepe ect. > If you're trying to wind up the Avon fans, recall that a good few of us like him *because* he's an arrogant etc. -- Julia Jones "There are people in the world who believe that Elvis did not die but was abducted by aliens. Most of these people have the vote and many own guns." Terry Pratchett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:50:59 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Neil: Julia: And we *like* the big nose ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 17:49:40 -0400 From: Susan Beth To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...) Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.20001022174940.0073acc8@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" huh@ccm.net wrote: >> Sounds more to me like an arrogant big-nosed bastard sneering down his snoot >> at the brainless riffraff whose company he hav to kepe ect. >> >> Neil > >finally, an Avon character analysis I can agree with whole heartedly. >always struck me as a distant contained sort of man who thinks of himself as >superior to all and would prefer to associate only with his level- which almost >no one else is on. I'm beginning to think that Avon is a sort of sopron: what you see in him depends on what *you* are. Me, I see him as an a rather typical introvert, albeit a very smart one. He doesn't voluntarily seek out large gatherings of people, most especially of people he doesn't know, but he gets along fine in small groups and with those he has come to know well. He can happily spend long stretches alone (in fact, positively prefers it when he has an intriguing problem to work on) but he's just as happy to have someone else at the table to talk to when he isn't being obsessed by something. BTW -- that reaction to the handshake? My theory is that Max is one of those disgusting people who blow their noses with their fingers. Avon just got a palmful of snot.... Susan Beth (susanbeth33@mindspring.com) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:20:44 EST From: "J MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (part 1) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "Sally Manton" >This also nicely explains him putting on that Matador jacket - when you're >feeling cruddy, you don't tend to think too hard about what >you're doing >first thing in the morning. >(PS - Joanne, Mistral, does this let him off the hook?) No. Most human beings would go for a habitual favourite wardrobe item, or something cuddly and comfortable they didn't have to worry about. Haven't had breakfast yet, so I've still time to believe that leather and studs is cuddly and comfortable. Regards Joanne (now trying to erase the thought that the matador jacket was Avon's "fat day" clothing. That's a bad start to my day, Sally, let alone thinking about the damn coat at all.) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:15:59 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Had to be seen to be ... believed? Message-ID: <00b901c03d41$6cab2d20$d3604e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally said: > So when do *you* hear that little mental 'twang' when said suspension gives > way entirely? Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a DSV! I mean, what was Blake going to do if the Liberator HADN'T floated up? -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:18:37 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...) Message-ID: <00ba01c03d41$6efe44e0$d3604e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Sally Manton To: Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 2:55 AM Subject: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...) > Dana says : > prepared to take him as he is, Blake has the irritating habit of asking more > of him than Avon wishes to give.> Apologies--Marian, not Sally. > > > Dana goes on: > not Guerilla Cally): he doesn't initiate a lot of plans with a high capacity > for fatality.> > > Actually, does Vila initiate any plans *at all*?? (Well, I'd guess he put > forward quite a few involving bars, rest centres and luxury resorts full of > badly-secured riches, but for some reason they never got very far with > either of his Leaders, Fearless or Downright-Frightening). Exactly. He's restful. > > talks TO anyone.> > > There's some rather strange angles, true. I believe that the flight deck of > the Liberator was extremely difficult to shoot. 1. That still shouldn't preclude a two-shot with actual eye contact 2. Didn't they think about that when they approved the sketches? -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:29:59 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] bfi poll Message-ID: <00bb01c03d41$70f44880$d3604e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harriet said: I can't now remember if Tudor has a fan club (I did have a close friend who was rather keen on him), but there is one for Henry VI, whose principal aim as I remember is to campaign for his canonisation. And the RIIIS to which I belong promotes the line that Richard was a non-murdering, hard-working administrator, But Henry VI became a sound candidate for canonization by being deposed and killed by Edward IV and his brothers, including the then-Duke of Gloucester (subsequently Richard III). It is certainly arguable that this was murder. I did find Josephine Tey's "Daughter of Time" quite convincing, and based on his portraits Richard III did have a nice face, and I'm all in favor of anyone who was nervous enough to be caught fidgeting in an official portrait. ObB7: there appears to be an affinity between B7 and RIII fandoms. I've found enough people who belong to both to crew a large spaceship called White Surrey. Where they probably have videotapes of Paul Darrow as Richard III. But are the White Surrey crew fans of the chatty Vice figure or the stout Northern administrator? -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: 23 Oct 00 16:46:20 PDT From: Jacqui Speel To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: b7 Subject: Re: [Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)] Message-ID: <20001023234620.9035.qmail@www0d.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Probably hiding out with Lord Lucan (there was acartoon to this effect - = 'Far Side' collection possibly, Shergar the horse etc. Julia Jones "There are people in the world who believe that Elvis did not die but was abducted by aliens. Most of these people have the vote and many own guns." Terry Pratchett ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home= =2Enetscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:31:33 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Avon the loner (was Dorian and Avon) Message-ID: <39F4E675.6496@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > He compounds this with a habit of turning his back on the very > person he *is* talking at or who's talking to him (particularly in the third > series, I counted up the number one time, and it's fairly impressive). The > only person he seems to talk *to* in the third series is Vila, IMO, and not > always him. > > Actually, this could be used as an argument that he *is* a loner by instict, > but I think it's more complicated than that. For example, it could mean that he uses prolonged eye contact in confrontational conversation and prefers to briefly acknowlege and then look away from people in non-confrontational. Thus, his encounters with Servalan tend to include apparent staring contests, but in instructing Gan on computers keeps his gaze mostly on the hardware in question. Eye contact can be intimidating; indeed, in dealing with animals, prolonged eye contact may be recommended to keep a wild animal at distance, or avoided to keep a large dog from feeling challenged. Humans get emotional reactions from eye contact. We're told not to make eye contact with strangers in a city. What I wrote in the Avon and Dorian thread was an immediate reaction to the question posed about the apparent similarity created between them by the script and designers and what it might mean. Certainly Avon has never been a people person, but there is a difference between not wanting constant company or nattering conversations and allowing the relationships one has valued to atrophy in the hopes of cutting oneself off from vulnerability. The latter is what I was speculating Kerr may have been doing in the last season, while the former is his pattern of behavior beforehand. As for his stand-offishness in Spacefall, he is an embezzler amid a bunch of criminals that range from petty thief to killers. > > don't see why that should be emotionally damaging. I don't see Avon as > emotionally damaged. [No, not even in S4 :-)]> > Isolation is generally thought to be emotionally damaging. Humans are social, even the most introverted. Isolation and solitary confinement have been traditional methods of punishment. Avon ran all the physical needs past ORAC in Horizon, and decided he didn't *need* the others, then endangered himself to get them. Some people say this is because the Federation ships were coming, but he could have cleared out a lot faster than recovering the crew. > I think he is (and frozen over badly) but it's less to do with this than > simply four massive shocks in such a short time (Anna's betrayal in Rumours, > finding and losing 'Blake', and losing the Liberator in Terminal, Cally's > death in Rescue. Who *wouldn't* come out of that lot a bit tattered?) > And I think those events are key to his decision, conscious or subconscious, to further distance himself emotionally from the remainder of the crew. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:32:00 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re:The good twin Message-ID: <39F4E690.141C@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > And she is totally impervious to the charms of Our Heroes, because she fell > head over heels at first sight of, and is now totally and blissfully > committed to the man of her dreams (and the bad Servie's nightmares) ... > > Go on, guess > Del Grant. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:55:40 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief Message-ID: <39F4EC1C.7981@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So when do *you* hear that little mental 'twang' when said suspension gives > way entirely? (And no fair writing 'when reading one of Sally's longer > posts', thank you :-) Stick to the script.) > When Tanith Lee writes? Mind, I liked Sarcophagas in some ways, but... the avatars business was too wierd for me. I don't mind discussing them as theoretical avatars, i.e. Vila as the Artful Dodger-type. Seeing 'real' avatars of them, like they are reincarnations of her slavies, really stuck in my throat. I don't mind reincarnation per se, but granting it as a possibility, they are all on the same ship and find her? Too much. In 'Sand', I could deal with the silicon energy vampire, but not with Avon's problem-solving methods. He turned away from logic. Those episodes are fantasy. Any of the others, no matter how bad the science facts/SFX, are meant to take place in a universe of rationality and impartial logic. Her stories are set in a different universe, one of meaningful coincidence and high emotion. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:00:33 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re:Avon as loner Message-ID: <39F4ED41.5FBE@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Actually, now that I think of it board and card games and the like are > always a very good way to fill in time with people (like relatives) you > don't really have all that much to talk about with ... > Vindicated. I quote in finer detail very good way to fill in time with people Important emphasis on filling time *with people*. If you don't want people, you fill time by sitting in your room with an apple, reading a nice tech manual or Nietzche's poetry. Then turn on some music and do excercises. He chose to sit with the others and play meaningless games and listen to their chat. Ergo, he is not acting like a loner. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:55:05 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (part 1) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Joanne wrote: < Most human beings would go for a habitual favourite wardrobe item, or something cuddly and comfortable they didn't have to worry about. Haven't had breakfast yet, so I've still time to believe that leather and studs is cuddly and comfortable.> But for all we know, the Matador jacket could have been made of the finest exomorph-skin, with downy soft fur in delicate shades of pastel inside. <(now trying to erase the thought that the matador jacket was Avon's "fat day" clothing. That's a bad start to my day, Sally, let alone thinking about the damn coat at all.)> well they do say part of the appeal of shoulder pads is that they tend to draw the eyes up and make the waist look slimmer ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:56:56 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re:Avon as loner Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Helen wrote: Now while I actually agreed that he wasn't a loner as such, I have to quibble a bit with this argument, because ... well, from what we've seen of the cabins on the Liberator (cell blocks in space), you'd have to be pathologically unfriendly to want to spend twenty unnecessary minutes in them. Methinks even My Darling would rather play nude Twister on the flight deck with Largo, Piri, Tara, Egrorian and Vargas than 'relax' in them ... (Oooo-errr. Thinks a bit harder about that image ... maybe not). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:45:44 +0200 From: Natasa Tucev To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Planning and acting skills Message-Id: <200010241445.QAA13244@Tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sally observed about Blake: > >Of course, if you believe he was bluffing when he threatened Kayn, that's a >brilliant piece of low-key acting (for that matter, his threatening Travis >and Servalan with the Phobon disk ain't bad). This, of course, doesn't >quite work if you don't think he *was* bluffing ... > I don't know about Kayn (Blake can be ruthless sometimes, remember when he snaps that guard's neck in Project Avalon), but I'm quite sure he wasn't bluffing in the Phobon disk scene. His 'are you quite sure I wouldn't do it?' strikes me as genuinely determined, and I don't think he would hesitate if things went wrong. I'm afraid that at times Blake is quite willing to die if there's something worth dying for, and having the Federation Supreme Commander as a companion for his death seems like a good offer, if there are no other options. Even when, in Time Squad, he says to Cally, 'I wasn't planning a suicide mission', it sounds to me like, 'I wasn't planning one today, but if you stick around, there may be one in store tomorrow.' And he certainly wasn't bluffing when he offered the Kommissar to keep him upon leaving Horizon and release the others in return. Much as I like Blake's character, I'm afraid he does have a death wish from time to time. Well, considering what we know about his pre-series experience, you can hardly expect him to have a 'carpe diem' life philosophy. He is a bit suicidal, but I accept it as a part of his personal charm. And as for acting and bluffing - he isn't too successful in Cygnus Alpha, when he says that the bracelets 'have no value in themselves.' It doesn't fool Vargas. N. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:13:14 -0600 From: Betty Ragan To: B7 Lyst Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...) Message-ID: <39F5A70A.1469205E@sdc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil wrote: > shunning the proximity of his fellow crew probably come from reading too > much fanfic. It wasn't in the series.> Hey, you can *never* read too much fanfic! And Sally responded: > Now which of us all said that? Carol thinks they're all good > friends (at least the post-War lot); I said he's indifferent to most of 'em > (except as sounding boards/targets/possibly-useful tools. Though Marian (if > I recall the start of this) did say he's a natural loner ... Wasn't me who said that, either, although I am (as usual) more inclined to agree with Sally than with Carol. I *do* agree with whoever (was it Marian?) said that he's a natural introvert. And, speaking as another natural introvert, I'd be quite surprised if he *didn't* feel a periodic need to get away from the others for a while. But it shouldn't be too surprising that we don't really see that on the screen; Avon locking himself in his cabin and happily tinkering with Orac for a few hours wouldn't exactly make for exciting TV, would it? We mostly only get to see these people when Important Things are happening, after all... -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ "I love hearing that lonesome wail of the train whistle as the magnitude of the frequency of the wave changes due to the Doppler effect." -- Sidney Harris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:39:31 -0600 From: Betty Ragan To: B7 Lyst Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief Message-ID: <39F5AD33.79C6695E@sdc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen Krummenacker wrote: > When Tanith Lee writes? Mind, I liked Sarcophagas in some ways, but... > the avatars business was too wierd for me. I don't mind discussing them > as theoretical avatars, i.e. Vila as the Artful Dodger-type. Seeing > 'real' avatars of them, like they are reincarnations of her slavies, > really stuck in my throat. I don't mind reincarnation per se, but > granting it as a possibility, they are all on the same ship and find > her? Too much. Oh, I didn't see "Sarcophagus" as suggesting that at *all*. More that she was forcing them into those roles (which, admittedly, they just happened to be well suited for...). -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ "I love hearing that lonesome wail of the train whistle as the magnitude of the frequency of the wave changes due to the Doppler effect." -- Sidney Harris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:45:55 -0600 From: Betty Ragan To: B7 Lyst Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Avon as loner Message-ID: <39F5AEB3.B06535EA@sdc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally Manton wrote: > Methinks even My Darling would rather play nude > Twister on the flight deck with Largo, Piri, Tara, Egrorian and Vargas > than 'relax' in them ... > > (Oooo-errr. Thinks a bit harder about that image ... maybe not). Aaaaaaarggh! My eyes! My eyes! -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ "I love hearing that lonesome wail of the train whistle as the magnitude of the frequency of the wave changes due to the Doppler effect." -- Sidney Harris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:28:25 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief Message-ID: <20001024222825.I31527@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 06:55:40PM -0700, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > So when do *you* hear that little mental 'twang' when said suspension gives > > way entirely? (And no fair writing 'when reading one of Sally's longer > > posts', thank you :-) Stick to the script.) > > > When Tanith Lee writes? Mind, I liked Sarcophagas in some ways, but... > the avatars business was too wierd for me. I don't mind discussing them > as theoretical avatars, i.e. Vila as the Artful Dodger-type. Seeing > 'real' avatars of them, like they are reincarnations of her slavies, > really stuck in my throat. I don't mind reincarnation per se, but > granting it as a possibility, they are all on the same ship and find > her? Too much. Reincarnation??!! I never saw that there at all! The "avatars" were merely a vision of the future; assurance that the Alien would, indeed, find her destined servitors eventually, after they cast off her barque into the seas of space. At that point, their faces were unknown. When the B7 crew found the ship, then they began falling into their foretold roles. I thought it was cool. But then I like symbolism and synchronicity. Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Blake: Orac, why won't you give us the background to that prediction? Orac: Because that would invalidate the prediction. Blake: And if we knew the future in detail we could change it, and so it wouldn't be the future. Orac: Correct. That is the paradox of prediction. (Blake's 7: Redemption [B1]) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | \_.--.*/ | v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:20:48 EDT From: Mac4781@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan Beth wrote: > Me, I see him as an a rather typical introvert, albeit a very smart one. > He doesn't voluntarily seek out large gatherings of people, most especially > of people he doesn't know, but he gets along fine in small groups and with > those he has come to know well. He can happily spend long stretches alone > (in fact, positively prefers it when he has an intriguing problem to work > on) but he's just as happy to have someone else at the table to talk to > when he isn't being obsessed by something. I had to quote this paragraph in its entirety. It's perfect. Avon wasn't a dysfunctional human being; he was a very normal introvert. Betty wrote: > I *do* agree with whoever (was it > Marian?) said that he's a natural introvert. And, speaking as another > natural introvert, I'd be quite surprised if he *didn't* feel a periodic > need to get away from the others for a while. Speaking as another natural introvert, I very much agree with Betty. Introverts need "down" time. As I've said before, I think part of the conflict between Avon and Blake was the extreme differences in their personality types. Blake wouldn't mean to discomfort Avon, but his personality is so overwhelming it would be very difficult for an introvert to cope with that in close quarters over a long period of time. There was also an indication that Avon inadvertently hurt Blake--because introverts don't understand how cold and uncaring they can appear to extroverts--which is why Blake responded with the hurt comment about Avon really hating him in STAR ONE. I also think the sensitivity that built up during seasons one and two led to Avon's quick trigger finger in BLAKE. Whether he realized it or not, Avon's body was probably tensing in anticipation of another "dose" of Blake from the moment he decided to go to Gauda Prime. Betty also wrote (in a different post; I'm playing catch-up at the moment): > (I *still* think > the Warlord alliance was a mighty fine idea, in principle.) I agree. There was no way the few of them and "Trooper Orac" stood a chance against the size and might of the Federation. Their best hope was an alliance. And that seems to have been on their minds long before WARLORD. In VOLCANO Dayna and Tarrant attempted to forge an alliance with the Obsidians. In ANIMALS Dayna tells Justin, "We've got a base, we're gathering equipment and we're looking for allies. We're also trying to recruit experts... specialists in relevant fields." Unfortunately their attempts at alliances (VOLCANO and WARLORD) both resulted in betrayals. Which doesn't bode well for the alliance method actually working. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: 24 Oct 00 12:19:27 PDT From: Jacqui Speel To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: b7 Subject: [B7L] strange coincidence Message-ID: <20001024191927.3190.qmail@ww183.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Because of my historical interests I am going through some of The Times (newspaper): in the early twentieth century there was a company called Av= on Tyres: in 1917 they did a series of 'Landmarks of London' as part of thei= r advertising campaign - and the first one was the Bank of England. Any connection? ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home= =2Enetscape.com/webmail -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #296 **************************************