From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #296
X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume00/296
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 296
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Gareth photos [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian [ huh@ccm.net ]
Re: [[B7L] I didnt say he *paid* for [ Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape. ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian [ Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones. ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian [ Susan Beth <susanbeth33@mindspring. ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (part 1) [ "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.co ]
Re: [B7L] Had to be seen to be ... b [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ]
Re: [B7L] bfi poll [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ]
Re: [Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was D [ Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape. ]
[B7L] Re: Avon the loner (was Dorian [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
[B7L] Re:The good twin [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
[B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
[B7L] Re:Avon as loner [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (part 1) [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
[B7L] Re:Avon as loner [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Planning and acting skills [ Natasa Tucev <tucev@tesla.rcub.bg.a ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian [ Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org> ]
Re: [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief [ Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org> ]
Re: [B7L] Re:Avon as loner [ Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org> ]
Re: [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief [ Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana. ]
Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian [ Mac4781@aol.com ]
[B7L] strange coincidence [ Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape. ]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:37:52 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Gareth photos
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1023183752-b07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Here's the relevent numbers from the contact sheets. I've only listed ones that
I felt were good pictures, but there's quite a lot of them. I've picked out a
few particular favourites with 'recommended', but all the ones listed here were
selected from a much larger original set. (I hope to goodness I copied the
numbers down correctly - they're quite hard to read sometimes):
A Midsummer Night's Dream
Black and White
sheet 8
2 - full length Oberon and Puck with full moon in background (I think this is
the one I have on the web site - recommended)
10 - Oberon and Puck - 1/2 height
26 - Oberon and Titania 3/4 height
sheet 7
3 - Oberon and Titania - heads back to back
11- Oberon half-holding Titania
23 - full length - Oberon facing Titania
sheet 11
4 - Puck holding sword at Oberon's throat.
sheet 6
0 - Theseus and Hippolyta - full length
7 - Theseus with another man 3/4 length
11 - Oberon and Puck view the sleepers in the wood.
Colour
sheet F
31 - Oberon and Titania full length
34 - Theseus and a group of people
sheet C
33 - Oberon and PUck
sheet D
12 - Oberon and the sleepers
sheet A
21 - OBeron and Puck laughing, heads only - recommended
7 - Titania's head resting on Oberon's back - recommended
10 - Oberon and Titania - heads close together - almost kissing
Dear Brutus
Colour
sheet G
33 - Dearth - head and torso - looking up
sheet C
21 - Dearth with a lady dressed in white - full length
sheet B
14 - Dearth and daughter, full length - looks as though he's trying to shield
her from something
sheet A
28 - Dearth and daughter - 3/4 length - recommended
13 - Dearth and daughter 1/2 length, laughing
Black and white
sheet 3
27 Dearth and daughter, 3/4 length, playful
sheet 4
24 Dearth and daughter sitting under the moon, full length
28 Dearth holding daughter - full length
sheet 5
21 - Dearth holding cigar, 3/4 length
sheet 2
17 - Dearth and daughter, 3/4 length, sitting, looking happy - recommended
To order *colour* photos, write to Marketing, Nottingham Playhouse, Wellington
Circus, Nottingham, NG1 5AF. You will need to quote the name of the play, the
sheet number and the photo number.
The cost is:
5x7 = 1.85 pounds
8x10 = 3.25
12x16 = 9.35
There's no mention of any extra cost for postage.
Cheques must be payable to "Nottingham Theatre Trust Ltd"
To order *Black and white* photos, write to Robert Day, 69 Park Grove, Derby,
DE22 1HG. You need to quote the name of the play, the sheet number and the
photo number.
Costs are:
7x5 = 3 pounds
10x8 = 4.25 pounds
16x12 = 9.50
20x16 = 15
For orders including sizes upto 10x8 add 80p P+P
For orders including sizes upto 20x16 add 1.70 pounds P+P
Cheques payable to "Robert Day".
If overseas fans want photos and have currency problems, contact me and I'll see
if I can help. Please use your common sense and add a pound or so extra for
overseas postage (for colours and black and white) as overseas prices aren't
quoted.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 100 13:46:26 +0000
From: huh@ccm.net
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)
Message-Id: <200010231846.e9NIkQP26426@ccm.net>
> Sounds more to me like an arrogant big-nosed bastard sneering down his snoot
> at the brainless riffraff whose company he hav to kepe ect.
>
> Neil
finally, an Avon character analysis I can agree with whole heartedly.
always struck me as a distant contained sort of man who thinks of himself as
superior to all and would prefer to associate only with his level- which almost
no one else is on.
-----------------------------------------------------
This message was sent via the CCMnet Mailman.
Visit our website: http://www.ccm.net
------------------------------
Date: 23 Oct 00 12:36:10 PDT
From: Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [[B7L] I didnt say he *paid* for them ...]
Message-ID: <20001023193610.22103.qmail@wwcst088.netaddress.usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
And who would collect all the 'fast food shop free gifties'?
"Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> wrote:
A question. Who else thinks that Vila would pick up all sorts of dreadfu=
l, =
wonderful souvenirs on all the more civilised planets we *don't* see Our =
Heroes visiting?
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home=
=2Enetscape.com/webmail
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:48:30 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)
Message-ID: <LAW-F93XNhX9hyZRiEK00008aba@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Neil wrote:
<Y'know, it's rather fun watching a bit of fur flying around on the Lyst
whilst knowing that just for once I had nothing to do with it:)>
But I'm sure you can fix that if you try ... :-)
<Any ideas of Avon spending most of his time brooding in isolation and
shunning the proximity of his fellow crew probably come from reading too
much fanfic. It wasn't in the series.>
<gurgle> Now which of us all said that? Carol thinks they're all good
friends (at least the post-War lot); I said he's indifferent to most of 'em
(except as sounding boards/targets/possibly-useful tools. Though Marian (if
I recall the start of this) did say he's a natural loner ...
<Maybe the notion of Avon-as-loner arose from the way he can distance
himself emotionally from people (and situations in general) even when he's
in close physical proximity to them.>
I like this (Neil, you should play in more character threads - you usually
*do* say quite a lot I like).
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:58:41 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)
Message-ID: <LAW-F116dgoMAmb9CrK000091ab@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
huh wrote:
<finally, an Avon character analysis I can agree with whole heartedly.
always struck me as a distant contained sort of man who thinks of himself
as superior to all and would prefer to associate only with his level- which
almost no one else is on.>
Seriously though ... <g> that doesn't explain why he gets on so much better
with Vila than nearly anyone else, despite the fact that (love them both as
I do) they are a loooonnng way apart on an intellectual level.
Of course, sneering at Vila is one of Avon's best games (at least from late
1st season through to Terminal, where one can argue it's in fun. After that
it gets a bit cold and really nasty - see Assassin).
Avon's natural habitat (IMHO) would be the information technology section of
a university (I work with some of these extremmely august IT professors, and
while they dress worse and are for the most part far sunnier people, talking
to them sometimes is like listening to Avon when he's got something to show
off).
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:41:57 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)
Message-ID: <s0f80DBlhH95Ewi+@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <001801c03d1a$11be44a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>, Neil Faulkner
<N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>Y'know, it's rather fun watching a bit of fur flying around on the Lyst
>whilst knowing that just for once I had nothing to do with it:)
>
I was thinking the very same thing...
>
>Sounds more to me like an arrogant big-nosed bastard sneering down his snoot
>at the brainless riffraff whose company he hav to kepe ect.
>
If you're trying to wind up the Avon fans, recall that a good few of us
like him *because* he's an arrogant etc.
--
Julia Jones
"There are people in the world who believe that Elvis did not die
but was abducted by aliens. Most of these people have the vote
and many own guns." Terry Pratchett
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:50:59 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)
Message-ID: <LAW-F206j6iZkxUWZoI00004191@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Neil:
<Sounds more to me like an arrogant big-nosed bastard sneering down his
snoot at the brainless riffraff whose company he hav to kepe ect.>
Julia:
<If you're trying to wind up the Avon fans, recall that a good few of us
like him *because* he's an arrogant etc.>
And we *like* the big nose ...
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 17:49:40 -0400
From: Susan Beth <susanbeth33@mindspring.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long
...)
Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.20001022174940.0073acc8@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
huh@ccm.net wrote:
>> Sounds more to me like an arrogant big-nosed bastard sneering down his
snoot
>> at the brainless riffraff whose company he hav to kepe ect.
>>
>> Neil
>
>finally, an Avon character analysis I can agree with whole heartedly.
>always struck me as a distant contained sort of man who thinks of himself
as
>superior to all and would prefer to associate only with his level- which
almost
>no one else is on.
I'm beginning to think that Avon is a sort of sopron: what you see in him
depends on what *you* are.
Me, I see him as an a rather typical introvert, albeit a very smart one.
He doesn't voluntarily seek out large gatherings of people, most especially
of people he doesn't know, but he gets along fine in small groups and with
those he has come to know well. He can happily spend long stretches alone
(in fact, positively prefers it when he has an intriguing problem to work
on) but he's just as happy to have someone else at the table to talk to
when he isn't being obsessed by something.
BTW -- that reaction to the handshake? My theory is that Max is one of
those disgusting people who blow their noses with their fingers. Avon just
got a palmful of snot....
Susan Beth (susanbeth33@mindspring.com)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:20:44 EST
From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (part 1)
Message-ID: <F254jv8R2dFtD9I9HTc0000b6e6@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
>This also nicely explains him putting on that Matador jacket - when you're
>feeling cruddy, you don't tend to think too hard about what >you're doing
>first thing in the morning.
>(PS - Joanne, Mistral, does this let him off the hook?)
No. Most human beings would go for a habitual favourite wardrobe item, or
something cuddly and comfortable they didn't have to worry about. Haven't
had breakfast yet, so I've still time to believe that leather and studs is
cuddly and comfortable.
Regards
Joanne
(now trying to erase the thought that the matador jacket was Avon's "fat
day" clothing. That's a bad start to my day, Sally, let alone thinking about
the damn coat at all.)
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:15:59 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Had to be seen to be ... believed?
Message-ID: <00b901c03d41$6cab2d20$d3604e0c@dshilling>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sally said:
> So when do *you* hear that little mental 'twang' when said suspension
gives
> way entirely?
Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a DSV! I mean, what was
Blake going to do if the Liberator HADN'T floated up?
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:18:37 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)
Message-ID: <00ba01c03d41$6efe44e0$d3604e0c@dshilling>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----- Original Message -----
From: Sally Manton <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 2:55 AM
Subject: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)
> Dana says :
> <Sally: He stays wary of Blake - understandable as, while Vila and Cally
are
> prepared to take him as he is, Blake has the irritating habit of asking
more
> of him than Avon wishes to give.>
Apologies--Marian, not Sally.
>
>
> Dana goes on:
> <One thing you can say for Vila (and of later, This Space for Rent Cally
but
> not Guerilla Cally): he doesn't initiate a lot of plans with a high
capacity
> for fatality.>
>
> Actually, does Vila initiate any plans *at all*?? (Well, I'd guess he put
> forward quite a few involving bars, rest centres and luxury resorts full
of
> badly-secured riches, but for some reason they never got very far with
> either of his Leaders, Fearless or Downright-Frightening).
Exactly. He's restful.
>
> <The blocking of B7 episodes is often very peculiar--hardly anyone
actually
> talks TO anyone.>
>
> There's some rather strange angles, true. I believe that the flight deck
of
> the Liberator was extremely difficult to shoot.
1. That still shouldn't preclude a two-shot with actual eye contact
2. Didn't they think about that when they approved the sketches?
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:29:59 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] bfi poll
Message-ID: <00bb01c03d41$70f44880$d3604e0c@dshilling>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Harriet said:
I can't now remember if Tudor has a fan club (I did have a close friend who
was rather keen on him), but there is one for Henry VI, whose principal aim
as I remember is to campaign for his canonisation. And the RIIIS to which
I belong promotes the line that Richard was a non-murdering, hard-working
administrator,
But Henry VI became a sound candidate for canonization by being deposed
and killed by Edward IV and his brothers, including the then-Duke of
Gloucester (subsequently Richard III). It is certainly arguable that this
was
murder. I did find Josephine Tey's "Daughter of Time" quite convincing,
and based on his portraits Richard III did have a nice face, and I'm all in
favor of anyone who was nervous enough to be caught fidgeting in an official
portrait.
ObB7: there appears to be an affinity between B7 and RIII fandoms. I've
found enough people who belong to both to crew a large spaceship called
White Surrey.
Where they probably have videotapes of Paul Darrow as Richard III.
But are the White Surrey crew fans of the chatty Vice figure or the
stout Northern administrator?
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: 23 Oct 00 16:46:20 PDT
From: Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)]
Message-ID: <20001023234620.9035.qmail@www0d.netaddress.usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Probably hiding out with Lord Lucan (there was acartoon to this effect - =
'Far
Side' collection possibly, Shergar the horse etc.
Julia Jones
"There are people in the world who believe that Elvis did not die
but was abducted by aliens. Most of these people have the vote
and many own guns." Terry Pratchett
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home=
=2Enetscape.com/webmail
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:31:33 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Avon the loner (was Dorian and Avon)
Message-ID: <39F4E675.6496@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> He compounds this with a habit of turning his back on the very
> person he *is* talking at or who's talking to him (particularly in the third
> series, I counted up the number one time, and it's fairly impressive). The
> only person he seems to talk *to* in the third series is Vila, IMO, and not
> always him.
>
> Actually, this could be used as an argument that he *is* a loner by instict,
> but I think it's more complicated than that.
For example, it could mean that he uses prolonged eye contact in
confrontational conversation and prefers to briefly acknowlege and then
look away from people in non-confrontational. Thus, his encounters with
Servalan tend to include apparent staring contests, but in instructing
Gan on computers keeps his gaze mostly on the hardware in question. Eye
contact can be intimidating; indeed, in dealing with animals, prolonged
eye contact may be recommended to keep a wild animal at distance, or
avoided to keep a large dog from feeling challenged. Humans get
emotional reactions from eye contact. We're told not to make eye contact
with strangers in a city.
What I wrote in the Avon and Dorian thread was an immediate reaction to
the question posed about the apparent similarity created between them by
the script and designers and what it might mean.
Certainly Avon has never been a people person, but there is a difference
between not wanting constant company or nattering conversations and
allowing the relationships one has valued to atrophy in the hopes of
cutting oneself off from vulnerability. The latter is what I was
speculating Kerr may have been doing in the last season, while the
former is his pattern of behavior beforehand.
As for his stand-offishness in Spacefall, he is an embezzler amid a
bunch of criminals that range from petty thief to killers.
>
> <As I said above, IMO he's always perfectly capable of being alone, and I
> don't see why that should be emotionally damaging. I don't see Avon as
> emotionally damaged. [No, not even in S4 :-)]>
>
Isolation is generally thought to be emotionally damaging. Humans are
social, even the most introverted. Isolation and solitary confinement
have been traditional methods of punishment. Avon ran all the physical
needs past ORAC in Horizon, and decided he didn't *need* the others,
then endangered himself to get them. Some people say this is because the
Federation ships were coming, but he could have cleared out a lot faster
than recovering the crew.
> I think he is (and frozen over badly) but it's less to do with this than
> simply four massive shocks in such a short time (Anna's betrayal in Rumours,
> finding and losing 'Blake', and losing the Liberator in Terminal, Cally's
> death in Rescue. Who *wouldn't* come out of that lot a bit tattered?)
>
And I think those events are key to his decision, conscious or
subconscious, to further distance himself emotionally from the remainder
of the crew.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:32:00 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:The good twin
Message-ID: <39F4E690.141C@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> And she is totally impervious to the charms of Our Heroes, because she fell
> head over heels at first sight of, and is now totally and blissfully
> committed to the man of her dreams (and the bad Servie's nightmares) ...
>
> Go on, guess <g>
>
Del Grant.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:55:40 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief
Message-ID: <39F4EC1C.7981@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> So when do *you* hear that little mental 'twang' when said suspension gives
> way entirely? (And no fair writing 'when reading one of Sally's longer
> posts', thank you :-) Stick to the script.)
>
When Tanith Lee writes? Mind, I liked Sarcophagas in some ways, but...
the avatars business was too wierd for me. I don't mind discussing them
as theoretical avatars, i.e. Vila as the Artful Dodger-type. Seeing
'real' avatars of them, like they are reincarnations of her slavies,
really stuck in my throat. I don't mind reincarnation per se, but
granting it as a possibility, they are all on the same ship and find
her? Too much.
In 'Sand', I could deal with the silicon energy vampire, but not with
Avon's problem-solving methods. He turned away from logic.
Those episodes are fantasy. Any of the others, no matter how bad the
science facts/SFX, are meant to take place in a universe of rationality
and impartial logic. Her stories are set in a different universe, one of
meaningful coincidence and high emotion.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:00:33 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:Avon as loner
Message-ID: <39F4ED41.5FBE@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Actually, now that I think of it <veg> board and card games and the like are
> always a very good way to fill in time with people (like relatives) you
> don't really have all that much to talk about with ...
>
Vindicated. I quote in finer detail
very good way to fill in time with people
Important emphasis on filling time *with people*. If you don't want
people, you fill time by sitting in your room with an apple, reading a
nice tech manual or Nietzche's poetry. Then turn on some music and do
excercises. He chose to sit with the others and play meaningless games
and listen to their chat. Ergo, he is not acting like a loner.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:55:05 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (part 1)
Message-ID: <LAW-F940BwSNsiXxfzh00009236@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Joanne wrote:
< Most human beings would go for a habitual favourite wardrobe item,
or something cuddly and comfortable they didn't have to worry about.
Haven't had breakfast yet, so I've still time to believe that leather
and studs is cuddly and comfortable.>
But for all we know, the Matador jacket could have been made of the
finest exomorph-skin, with downy soft fur in delicate shades of pastel
inside.
<(now trying to erase the thought that the matador jacket was Avon's "fat
day" clothing. That's a bad start to my day, Sally, let alone thinking about
the damn coat at all.)>
<gurgle> well they do say part of the appeal of shoulder pads is that they
tend to draw the eyes up and make the waist look slimmer ...
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:56:56 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re:Avon as loner
Message-ID: <LAW-F227SnMGEAGrebx000094d1@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Helen wrote:
<Important emphasis on filling time *with people*. If you don't want
people, you fill time by sitting in your room with an apple, reading a
nice tech manual or Nietzche's poetry. Then turn on some music and do
excercises. He chose to sit with the others and play meaningless games
and listen to their chat. Ergo, he is not acting like a loner.>
Now while I actually agreed that he wasn't a loner as such, I have to
quibble a bit with this argument, because ... well, from what we've
seen of the cabins on the Liberator (cell blocks in space), you'd have
to be pathologically unfriendly to want to spend twenty unnecessary
minutes in them. Methinks even My Darling would rather play nude
Twister on the flight deck with Largo, Piri, Tara, Egrorian and Vargas
than 'relax' in them ...
(Oooo-errr. Thinks a bit harder about that image ... maybe not).
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:45:44 +0200
From: Natasa Tucev <tucev@tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Planning and acting skills
Message-Id: <200010241445.QAA13244@Tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sally observed about Blake:
>
>Of course, if you believe he was bluffing when he threatened Kayn, that's a
>brilliant piece of low-key acting (for that matter, his threatening Travis
>and Servalan with the Phobon disk ain't bad). This, of course, doesn't
>quite work if you don't think he *was* bluffing ...
>
I don't know about Kayn (Blake can be ruthless sometimes, remember when he
snaps that guard's neck in Project Avalon), but I'm quite sure he wasn't
bluffing in the Phobon disk scene. His 'are you quite sure I wouldn't do
it?' strikes me as genuinely determined, and I don't think he would hesitate
if things went wrong. I'm afraid that at times Blake is quite willing to die
if there's something worth dying for, and having the Federation Supreme
Commander as a companion for his death seems like a good offer, if there are
no other options. Even when, in Time Squad, he says to Cally, 'I wasn't
planning a suicide mission', it sounds to me like, 'I wasn't planning one
today, but if you stick around, there may be one in store tomorrow.' And he
certainly wasn't bluffing when he offered the Kommissar to keep him upon
leaving Horizon and release the others in return.
Much as I like Blake's character, I'm afraid he does have a death wish from
time to time. Well, considering what we know about his pre-series
experience, you can hardly expect him to have a 'carpe diem' life
philosophy. He is a bit suicidal, but I accept it as a part of his personal
charm.
And as for acting and bluffing - he isn't too successful in Cygnus Alpha,
when he says that the bracelets 'have no value in themselves.' It doesn't
fool Vargas.
N.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:13:14 -0600
From: Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org>
To: B7 Lyst <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)
Message-ID: <39F5A70A.1469205E@sdc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Neil wrote:
> <Any ideas of Avon spending most of his time brooding in isolation and
> shunning the proximity of his fellow crew probably come from reading too
> much fanfic. It wasn't in the series.>
Hey, you can *never* read too much fanfic!
And Sally responded:
> <gurgle> Now which of us all said that? Carol thinks they're all good
> friends (at least the post-War lot); I said he's indifferent to most of 'em
> (except as sounding boards/targets/possibly-useful tools. Though Marian (if
> I recall the start of this) did say he's a natural loner ...
Wasn't me who said that, either, although I am (as usual) more inclined
to agree with Sally than with Carol. I *do* agree with whoever (was it
Marian?) said that he's a natural introvert. And, speaking as another
natural introvert, I'd be quite surprised if he *didn't* feel a periodic
need to get away from the others for a while. But it shouldn't be too
surprising that we don't really see that on the screen; Avon locking
himself in his cabin and happily tinkering with Orac for a few hours
wouldn't exactly make for exciting TV, would it? We mostly only get to
see these people when Important Things are happening, after all...
--
Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/
"I love hearing that lonesome wail of the train whistle as
the magnitude of the frequency of the wave changes due to
the Doppler effect." -- Sidney Harris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:39:31 -0600
From: Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org>
To: B7 Lyst <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief
Message-ID: <39F5AD33.79C6695E@sdc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Helen Krummenacker wrote:
> When Tanith Lee writes? Mind, I liked Sarcophagas in some ways, but...
> the avatars business was too wierd for me. I don't mind discussing them
> as theoretical avatars, i.e. Vila as the Artful Dodger-type. Seeing
> 'real' avatars of them, like they are reincarnations of her slavies,
> really stuck in my throat. I don't mind reincarnation per se, but
> granting it as a possibility, they are all on the same ship and find
> her? Too much.
Oh, I didn't see "Sarcophagus" as suggesting that at *all*. More that
she was forcing them into those roles (which, admittedly, they just
happened to be well suited for...).
--
Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/
"I love hearing that lonesome wail of the train whistle as
the magnitude of the frequency of the wave changes due to
the Doppler effect." -- Sidney Harris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:45:55 -0600
From: Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org>
To: B7 Lyst <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Avon as loner
Message-ID: <39F5AEB3.B06535EA@sdc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sally Manton wrote:
> Methinks even My Darling would rather play nude
> Twister on the flight deck with Largo, Piri, Tara, Egrorian and Vargas
> than 'relax' in them ...
>
> (Oooo-errr. Thinks a bit harder about that image ... maybe not).
Aaaaaaarggh! My eyes! My eyes!
--
Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/
"I love hearing that lonesome wail of the train whistle as
the magnitude of the frequency of the wave changes due to
the Doppler effect." -- Sidney Harris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:28:25 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:suspension of disbelief
Message-ID: <20001024222825.I31527@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 06:55:40PM -0700, Helen Krummenacker wrote:
> > So when do *you* hear that little mental 'twang' when said suspension gives
> > way entirely? (And no fair writing 'when reading one of Sally's longer
> > posts', thank you :-) Stick to the script.)
> >
> When Tanith Lee writes? Mind, I liked Sarcophagas in some ways, but...
> the avatars business was too wierd for me. I don't mind discussing them
> as theoretical avatars, i.e. Vila as the Artful Dodger-type. Seeing
> 'real' avatars of them, like they are reincarnations of her slavies,
> really stuck in my throat. I don't mind reincarnation per se, but
> granting it as a possibility, they are all on the same ship and find
> her? Too much.
Reincarnation??!!
I never saw that there at all!
The "avatars" were merely a vision of the future; assurance that the
Alien would, indeed, find her destined servitors eventually, after
they cast off her barque into the seas of space. At that point,
their faces were unknown. When the B7 crew found the ship, then they
began falling into their foretold roles.
I thought it was cool. But then I like symbolism and synchronicity.
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Blake: Orac, why won't you give us the background to that prediction?
Orac: Because that would invalidate the prediction.
Blake: And if we knew the future in detail we could change it, and so it
wouldn't be the future.
Orac: Correct. That is the paradox of prediction.
(Blake's 7: Redemption [B1])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | <http://www.foobox.net/~kat>
\_.--.*/ | <http://angelcities.com/members/rubykat>
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:20:48 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon as loner? (was Dorian and Avon and *is* long ...)
Message-ID: <f.ae26d8d.27271ef0@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Susan Beth wrote:
> Me, I see him as an a rather typical introvert, albeit a very smart one.
> He doesn't voluntarily seek out large gatherings of people, most especially
> of people he doesn't know, but he gets along fine in small groups and with
> those he has come to know well. He can happily spend long stretches alone
> (in fact, positively prefers it when he has an intriguing problem to work
> on) but he's just as happy to have someone else at the table to talk to
> when he isn't being obsessed by something.
I had to quote this paragraph in its entirety. It's perfect. Avon wasn't a
dysfunctional human being; he was a very normal introvert.
Betty wrote:
> I *do* agree with whoever (was it
> Marian?) said that he's a natural introvert. And, speaking as another
> natural introvert, I'd be quite surprised if he *didn't* feel a periodic
> need to get away from the others for a while.
Speaking as another natural introvert, I very much agree with Betty.
Introverts need "down" time.
As I've said before, I think part of the conflict between Avon and Blake was
the extreme differences in their personality types. Blake wouldn't mean to
discomfort Avon, but his personality is so overwhelming it would be very
difficult for an introvert to cope with that in close quarters over a long
period of time. There was also an indication that Avon inadvertently hurt
Blake--because introverts don't understand how cold and uncaring they can
appear to extroverts--which is why Blake responded with the hurt comment
about Avon really hating him in STAR ONE.
I also think the sensitivity that built up during seasons one and two led to
Avon's quick trigger finger in BLAKE. Whether he realized it or not, Avon's
body was probably tensing in anticipation of another "dose" of Blake from the
moment he decided to go to Gauda Prime.
Betty also wrote (in a different post; I'm playing catch-up at the moment):
> (I *still* think
> the Warlord alliance was a mighty fine idea, in principle.)
I agree. There was no way the few of them and "Trooper Orac" stood a chance
against the size and might of the Federation. Their best hope was an
alliance. And that seems to have been on their minds long before WARLORD.
In VOLCANO Dayna and Tarrant attempted to forge an alliance with the
Obsidians.
In ANIMALS Dayna tells Justin, "We've got a base, we're gathering equipment
and we're looking for allies. We're also trying to recruit experts...
specialists in relevant fields."
Unfortunately their attempts at alliances (VOLCANO and WARLORD) both resulted
in betrayals. Which doesn't bode well for the alliance method actually
working.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: 24 Oct 00 12:19:27 PDT
From: Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] strange coincidence
Message-ID: <20001024191927.3190.qmail@ww183.netaddress.usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Because of my historical interests I am going through some of The Times
(newspaper): in the early twentieth century there was a company called Av=
on
Tyres: in 1917 they did a series of 'Landmarks of London' as part of thei=
r
advertising campaign - and the first one was the Bank of England.
Any connection?
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home=
=2Enetscape.com/webmail
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #296
**************************************