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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 293
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] bfi poll [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
[B7L] Blake as a cultural emissary [ Natasa Tucev <tucev@tesla.rcub.bg.a ]
Re: [B7L] Food and fantasy [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ]
Re: [B7L] Food and fantasy [ Mistral <mistral@centurytel.net> ]
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #290 [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
[B7L] Dorian and Avon [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
Re: [B7L] Christmas presents [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] bfi poll [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Blake as a cultural emissa [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
[B7L] Servalan's Clones [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
Re: [B7L] Servalan's Clones [ Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana. ]
Re: [Re: [B7L] bfi poll] [ Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape. ]
Re: [B7L] Servalan's offspring [ "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> ]
Re: [B7L] Dorian and Avon [ "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> ]
Re: [B7L] Servalan's Clones [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
Re: [Re: [B7L] Dorian and Avon] [ Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape. ]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:39:26 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] bfi poll
Message-ID: <002101c03abd$993b3c80$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Emma Peel <emmapeel@calvino.freeserve.co.uk>
> > From: Julie Horner <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
> > > Check out the results on
> > > http://213.253.19.130/features/tv/100/poll/index.html
> >
> Neil replied:-
> >
> > BLOODY HELL!!
>
> *swoon*
>
> I love an eloquent man...
Oh ghod, not another one...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:17:52 +0200
From: Natasa Tucev <tucev@tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake as a cultural emissary
Message-Id: <200010202017.WAA30872@Tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The British Cultural Centre in Belgrade is open again. I thought it would be
an interesting information for the people on the list to know that the
library contains some videos featuring Gareth Thomas - so far I've managed
to dig out The Naval Treaty and The Children of the Stones, all six
episodes. It is a small video library, no more than 200 titles. If it is
supposed to be some kind of a cross-section of contemporary British culture,
than I'm glad they've chosen GT as one of the representatives. (I'm even
more glad that, thanks to my profession, I was able to rent these videos as
'teaching material', for the period of seven days and free of charge.)
The library contains some ancient Dr Whos, but alas and much to my
grievance, no B7.
N.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:40:20 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Food and fantasy
Message-ID: <008201c03ade$75ea1640$82614e0c@dshilling>
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Alison said:
> Aga - the kitchen appliance which combines maximum danger and discomfort
> with minimum convenience. But it does take your dog out.
AND if it was cold outside, can pop your dog into the plate-warming oven.
>
> On the cooking thread - nobody in B7 has a clue, everyone is brought up
with
> institutional food. Like being at boarding school, or in the army.
This opens up entirely new vistas...like a special section in Avon's address
book of places he isn't supposed to know about, for illicit temples of
gastronomy.
Nobody knows the truffles I've seen,
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:59:32 -0700
From: Mistral <mistral@centurytel.net>
To: B7 lyst <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Food and fantasy
Message-ID: <39F0C044.AAEFF3AC@centurytel.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Dana Shilling wrote:
> This opens up entirely new vistas...like a special section in Avon's address
> book of places he isn't supposed to know about, for illicit temples of
> gastronomy.
>
> Nobody knows the truffles I've seen,
Both types, undoubtedly.
Mistral
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:31:59 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #290
Message-ID: <39F0F20E.25EA@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Yet she seems confident she'll be able to control the 12 (?) clones we see
> in Children of Auron. Imagine they had survived - the infighting would
> never stop!
>
> Raja: I'm going to be president.
> Travisa: No, I'll be president!
> Avona: Mother's going to appoint me.
This is SCAREY! This is *my* nickname... and I do make a pretty good
Servalan-clone in costume. May I never be reincarnated as such!
But I think Servie believes she can control them because they were going
to be aged only to infancy, at which point they'd be brought up as good
little Federation children. (Just wait til they hit teenage rebellion!
Maybe they *would* tear down the empire, just to spite mommy.) Anyhow,
she was 'reproducing' through cloning, which seems a bit different from
creating an adult copy meant to fool coworkers.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:48:04 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Dorian and Avon
Message-ID: <39F0F5D4.6CFF@jps.net>
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> True, he's right, but it also suggests something else, that Avon
> understands Dorian because of underlying similarities.
>
> JMHO - well, not even that, just my humble speculation, but maybe this
> was an attempt to foreshadow Avon's decline and growing ruthlessness over
> S4. Any thoughts?
>
> Ellynne
This made me think: Avon was part of the group at that time. There was
no question about him getting absorbed into the gestalt, in Dorian's
mind (since the group was still tight enough that he thought Soolin
could substitute for Cally as there were no other problems). Avon, the
loner by desire, has never actually been a loner in the series. He is
always interacting, always drawn to one of his companions. (Gan and
Jenna actually revealed and interacted less, or such is my impression)
Post-Rescue, he continues the secrecy he created for *good* reasons in
Terminal for more trivial missions, hiding parts of his plans. He
becomes more of an authoriarian on the bridge. His 3rd season traces of
warmth (helping up Dayna in 'Sarcophogas', checking on Cally's emotions
after the Children of Auron-Rumours of Death fiascos virtually
disappear.
On top of that, he breaks Vila's trust in him in Orbit, that being the
strongest bond he had left in the group.
In Blake, he has lost his place as part of the team-gestalt. He is
truely alone.
What he thought was the rational thing to be, a loner, is actually
emotionally damaging to him. He can no longer determine who to trust; he
make the greatest error he has ever made, and he dies with his former
friends.
Dorian and Avon both placed survival above connections with other
people; Dorian went mad in a nearly indiscernable way, Avon had a
nervous breakdown.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:11:45 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Christmas presents
Message-ID: <LAW-F32zadTMVwVn20l000001db@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Joanne wrote:
<Does that mean I have to write another Jarriere filk to a Beatles tune? I
remember the circumstances where I had to do that last year rather vividly.
>
I remember it too. Yes you do gave to <g> pretty please?
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:16:21 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] bfi poll
Message-ID: <LAW-F47OQ2haHHG7DrO0000016d@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Emma wrote:
<*swoon* I love an eloquent man...>
Neil, you ought to empthasize more with Avon, don't you think? Being a
sweetness-and-light-challenged sex magnet like My Darling ...
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:27:59 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake as a cultural emissary
Message-ID: <20001020.222850.-88783.3.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:17:52 +0200 Natasa Tucev
<tucev@tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu> writes:
> The British Cultural Centre in Belgrade is open again. I thought it
> would be
> an interesting information for the people on the list to know that
> the
> library contains some videos featuring Gareth Thomas - so far I've
> managed
> to dig out The Naval Treaty and The Children of the Stones, all six
> episodes.
What? He was in Children of the Stones? I haven't seen that for ages
(long before I saw B7). I can't remember the characters clearly. Was he
the father? What part did he play?
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:26:18 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Servalan's Clones
Message-ID: <20001020.222850.-88783.2.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:31:59 -0700 Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
writes:
> > Yet she seems confident she'll be able to control the 12 (?) clones
> we see
> > in Children of Auron.
> But I think Servie believes she can control them because they were
> going
> to be aged only to infancy, at which point they'd be brought up as
> good
> little Federation children. (Just wait til they hit teenage
> rebellion!
> Maybe they *would* tear down the empire, just to spite mommy.)
> Anyhow,
> she was 'reproducing' through cloning, which seems a bit different
> from
> creating an adult copy meant to fool coworkers.
>
If I remember right, Blake's clone wasn't a literal clone - not made from
his DNA - but made from the Federation's records of Blakes DNA (so long
as no whizzo computer fiends had cause to mess with the record, not much
practical difference [assuming the records and the Clone masters are as
good as advertised]). But the Clone masters could probably have made a
double who would pass basic physical comparisons and maybe even more in
depth tests without being a genetic copy.
So maybe Servalan had a _physical_ double made but whom she believes
(rightly of wrongly) doesn't have her genetic tendency to overthrow the
current president and appoint herself.
Or, given the fact Blake's clone had been imprinted to think according to
the Clone masters' philosophy, Servalan may have also have expected them
to do one incredibly indepth programming job.
Also, given the way the Clone masters seemed to have felt about Servalan,
there's no reason to believe they wouldn't have tossed in a few
modifications of their own.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:00:16 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan's Clones
Message-ID: <20001021160016.A8142@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Fri, Oct 20, 2000 at 10:26:18PM -0600, Ellynne G. wrote:
>
> If I remember right, Blake's clone wasn't a literal clone - not made from
> his DNA - but made from the Federation's records of Blakes DNA (so long
> as no whizzo computer fiends had cause to mess with the record, not much
> practical difference [assuming the records and the Clone masters are as
> good as advertised]). But the Clone masters could probably have made a
> double who would pass basic physical comparisons and maybe even more in
> depth tests without being a genetic copy.
>
> So maybe Servalan had a _physical_ double made but whom she believes
> (rightly of wrongly) doesn't have her genetic tendency to overthrow the
> current president and appoint herself.
>
> Or, given the fact Blake's clone had been imprinted to think according to
> the Clone masters' philosophy, Servalan may have also have expected them
> to do one incredibly indepth programming job.
>
> Also, given the way the Clone masters seemed to have felt about Servalan,
> there's no reason to believe they wouldn't have tossed in a few
> modifications of their own.
Ooooooh! I like this idea! A "good" Servalan!
Instead of an Evil Twin, a Good Twin...
Though unfortunately it seems likely that Good Twin is dead...
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Avon: Logic says we're dead.
Blake: Logic has never explained what dead is.
(Blake's 7: Duel [A8])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | <http://www.foobox.net/~kat>
\_.--.*/ | <http://angelcities.com/members/rubykat>
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: 21 Oct 00 04:57:40 PDT
From: Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape.net>
To: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [Re: [B7L] bfi poll]
Message-ID: <20001021115740.19736.qmail@ww190.netaddress.usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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"Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> wrote:
Emma wrote:
<*swoon* I love an eloquent man...>
Neil, you ought to empthasize more with Avon, don't you think? Being a =
sweetness-and-light-challenged sex magnet like My Darling ...
But such persons as Avon are far more 'fun' (and consider - why are there=
several Richard III societies and none for Henrys VI & VII etc)
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Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:17:50 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan's offspring
Message-ID: <000c01c03b61$4ff1ff60$5bed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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To my:
>> Yet she seems confident she'll be able to control the 12 (?) clones we
see in Children of Auron. Imagine they had survived - the infighting would
never stop!
>>
>> Raja: I'm going to be president.
>> Travisa: No, I'll be president!
>> Avona: Mother's going to appoint me.
Helen commented:
>This is SCAREY! This is *my* nickname... and I do make a pretty good
Servalan-clone in costume. May I never be reincarnated as such!<
Sorry. No disrespect meant.
What kind of names would Servalan choose for her offspring? Would she spend
long nights in deep pondering to find something meaningful for each of them
or would she go for the Roman tradition and just name them Prima, Secunda,
Tertia etc.?
>But I think Servie believes she can control them because they were going to
be aged only to infancy, at which point they'd be brought up as good little
Federation children.<
That was what I thought.
>(Just wait til they hit teenage rebellion! Maybe they *would* tear down
the empire, just to spite mommy.)<
<grin> I think the infight would start a little earlier, though. (As soon
as they can sit up and talk.) And as they would be of equal strength and
deviousness, they might well manage to destroy themselves along with their
mother's empire.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:36:52 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dorian and Avon
Message-ID: <001301c03b6c$6657a2e0$5bed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Helen wrote:
>This made me think: Avon was part of the group at that time. There was no
question about him getting absorbed into the gestalt, in Dorian's mind
(since the group was still tight enough that he thought Soolin could
substitute for Cally as there were no other problems). Avon, the loner by
desire, has never actually been a loner in the series.<
In Space Fall, he's presented as a loner. Our very first view of him is him
sitting in the farthest corner. Although he must be the last in the row we
get to see only him, emphasising his isolation. In the recreation/sleeping
area he stands aloof, not talking to the other prisoners. (But his reaction
to Raiker's clash with Jenna indicates he's aware what's going on.)
He moves over to the table without acknowledging the presence of the others.
Later when Blake decides to talk him into helping them, Avon sits alone in
the flight seats erea. IMO this all serves to establish him as a loner.
>He is always interacting, always drawn to one of his companions.<
The fact that he can get along with this small group of crewmates doesn't
mean that he needs company. I see him as a truly independent soul who can
be perfectly happy on his own.
>(Gan and Jenna actually revealed and interacted less, or such is my
impression)<
In Time Squad Gan confides in Jenna about his limiter and she's very
sympathetic. (More than we see her to anyone else except Blake.) In that
scene they interact more with each other than either of them ever does with
Avon, IMHO.
Initially, Avon seems very set at keeping his distance. When he gets to
know the others better, it looks like he's prepared to let his defences down
a bit towards Vila and Cally. He may even begin to enjoy their company - he
seems more relaxed with them than with the others. He stays wary of Blake -
understandable as, while Vila and Cally are prepared to take him as he is,
Blake has the irritating habit of asking more of him than Avon wishes to
give. [And Avon always ends up delivering :-)]
Avon never seems to develop any feelings for Jenna or Gan. [And one can
imagine Jenna never forgiving him for tempting her into abandoning Blake.
After that, things never come right between them. :-)]
>Post-Rescue, he continues the secrecy he created for *good* reasons in
Terminal for more trivial missions, hiding parts of his plans. He becomes
more of an authoriarian on the bridge. His 3rd season traces of warmth
(helping up Dayna in 'Sarcophogas', checking on Cally's emotions after the
Children of Auron-Rumours of Death fiascos virtually disappear.<
Circumstances become much more dire in S4, leaving no room for chivalry :-)
But there are still instances when he's prepared to take risks for the
others, like in 'Assassin' when lets himself be taken prisoner by the
slavers instead of allocating that task to Tarrant.
>On top of that, he breaks Vila's trust in him in Orbit, that being the
strongest bond he had left in the group.
>
>In Blake, he has lost his place as part of the team-gestalt. He is
truely alone. What he thought was the rational thing to be, a loner, is
actually emotionally damaging to him.<
As I said above, IMO he's always perfectly capable of being alone, and I
don't see why that should be emotionally damaging. I don't see Avon as
emotionally damaged. [No, not even in S4 :-)]
> He can no longer determine who to trust;<
Ironic, considering Blake can't either.
> he make the greatest error he has ever made, and he dies with his former
friends.<
We don't know that he dies - or that any of his 'former friends' do :-)
And isn't it significant that in 'Blake' Avon's crew is still following him?
After the Warlord fiasco they could have decided to drop him somewhere or
even to leave him behind on Xenon when they leave with Scorpio, yet they
still go along with his plans.
>Dorian and Avon both placed survival above connections with other
people; Dorian went mad in a nearly indiscernable way, Avon had a
nervous breakdown.<
We don't know how Dorian was before he discovered that cave. He may have
been mad from childhood.
All right, I'll stop rambling. I'm now off to the delights of London, so I
won't be able to partake in these stimulating discussions for the next week.
But I'll catch up :-)
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:26:06 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan's Clones
Message-ID: <20001021.102607.-106241.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:00:16 +1100 Kathryn Andersen
<kat@welkin.apana.org.au> writes:
>
> Ooooooh! I like this idea! A "good" Servalan!
> Instead of an Evil Twin, a Good Twin...
>
> Though unfortunately it seems likely that Good Twin is dead...
>
Sudden mental picture of Avon & co. meeting up with the good twin. She
explains how it was the toughest decision of her life, but she really
didn't feel it was right to help prop up Servalan's regime anymore. She
sent out messages saying 'The president's gone, come on in,' to anyone
interested in seizing power and took off (she can now see it was a bit
naive to send the message to _everyone_ instead of screening for
suitability first, but she was kind of new at this). It was a great
relief to grow out her hair and stop wearing so much make up all the time
(although she does feel it's important to have a good skin care regime).
She also enjoys being able wear blue jeans, sensible shoes, and plaid
shirts on a dayly basis.
Not sure yet what she does for a living, but it probably involves some
kind of political advocacy, trying to set right legal wrongs through
honest persuasion and appealing to people's better natures.
Why do I suspect she met up with Blake before Gauda Prime, leaving him
convinced he could no longer tell when people were good guys or just
faking it?
Ellynne
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Date: 21 Oct 00 14:38:28 PDT
From: Jacqui Speel <jacquispeel@netscape.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [Re: [B7L] Dorian and Avon]
Message-ID: <20001021213828.5877.qmail@www0u.netaddress.usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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"Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> wrote:
Helen wrote:
>Dorian and Avon both placed survival above connections with other
people; Dorian went mad in a nearly indiscernable way, Avon had a
nervous breakdown.<
We don't know how Dorian was before he discovered that cave. He may have=
been mad from childhood.
I would have thought Dorian linking up with all those extra personalities=
would create problems - not quite 'split personality' but something of th=
at
nature.
Jacqui
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #293
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