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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 272
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Introduction [ "Jeroen J. Kwast" <jeroenkw@gns.get ]
[B7L] Anna & the nature of love [ Tavia Chalcraft <tavia@btinternet.c ]
Re: [B7L] new souls for the faith [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ]
[B7L] Kaldor City CDs [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Neil's conspiracy theo [ "Doraleen McArthur" <d.mcarthur@wor ]
Re: [B7L] Introduction [ "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl> ]
[B7L] Re: Anna [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and pr [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and pr [ "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.de ]
Re:[B7L] Anna [ Natasa Tucev <tucev@tesla.rcub.bg.a ]
[B7L] VAT (was Zine Bindings) [ "rita d'orac" <orac@inorbit.com> ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and pr [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ]
Dates of First Broadcast [ "DragonFly" <dragonfly@pond65.fsnet ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Anna [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and pr [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and pr [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Neil's conspiracy theo [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] Introduction [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] Dates of First Broadcast [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
[B7L] A:ATA [ B7Morrigan@aol.com ]
Re: [B7L] Avon (was: Rumours of Deat [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Welcome back [ Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones. ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and pr [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
Re: [B7L] Anna & the nature of love [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and pr [ Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demo ]
Re: [B7L] OFFTOPIC Re: Fantasy, sati [ Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.s ]
Re: [B7L] OFFTOPIC Re: Fantasy, sati [ Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.s ]
Re: [B7L] Introduction [ Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@w ]
Re: [B7L] Introduction [ Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@w ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and pr [ Russ Massey <russ@wriding.demon.co. ]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 100 11:58:48 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" <jeroenkw@gns.getronics.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Introduction
Message-Id: <200009280958.e8S9wn316382@tragebak.gns.getronics.nl>
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>
> In a message dated 9/27/00 8:59:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> d.mcarthur@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> > Oh, tell me I'm not the only person in the world who finds "Terminal"
> > more depressing than "Blake". For some reason I spend all of "Terminal"
> > thinking "Good-bye, Zen; Good-bye Liberator; Good-bye Cally; Good-bye
> > curling iron guns; sniffle..." While in "Blake" I spend most of the
> episode
> > thinking "no, you idiots! Don't do it!"
>
> OK, Katie, you're not the only one. I dread "Terminal" and have it fixed in
> my head that Cally dies (even though she doesn't until "Rescue") and
> everything goes to hell. The only good thing about "Terminal" (at least in
> my view) is the lovely interaction between Avon and Blake and GT's beard.
>
> Morrigan
>
> Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!
>
>
Make that 3! I think Terminal is so depressing that I skip the tape it is on!
(most of the time) I even stop the tape before the I ... scene.
I think that episode loses a lot of great characters. I (as a boy) always loved
the ship, it's great strength and now it disintegrates !!! :( (it can't be!)
Jeroen
PS: It makes the storyline great though!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:40:30 +0100
From: Tavia Chalcraft <tavia@btinternet.com>
To: 'Lysator mailing list' <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Anna & the nature of love
Message-ID: <01C02940.E9B605C0.tavia@btinternet.com>
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Someone lost in the mists of time wrote:
>I think the question of whether Anna loved Avon rather depends
> on how you define 'love'.
And a lot of wibbling ensued. It might be worth saying that some otherwise
relatively normal people seem to find it simply impossible to love in any
real sense. They can show affection or sexual interest, they can be
excellent friends, they can be generous (especially if they sense a future
pay-back), but they never give love or true trust. I would have put Anna in
this category. Possibly Servalan too, depending on how seriously you take
her sand-induced fit of the maudlins re Don Keller. I've also read a lot of
fiction which assumed that Blake, for reasons of Cause and/or Federation
mind-mangling, was incapable of love.
The fact that Avon -- who finds it hard to love, but certainly succeeded
with Anna at least -- was drawn to these two women (and possibly also in
some sense Blake) thus becomes rather interesting, and possibly masochistic
?
Tavia
--When the fire and the rose are one
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:10:30 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] new souls for the faith
Message-ID: <005f01c0294f$94d1b360$e1684e0c@dshilling>
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Claudia said:
> Last night I introduced those who went through B5 last year to B7.
> I had thoroughly warned them that budgets were nil and styles were
> seventies, so they weren't in shock at production values.
It recently occurred to me that in B7 "special effects" is used in
the sense of "Special Olympics."
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:22:25 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Kaldor City CDs
Message-ID: <06cf01c0295f$f63e3dc0$0d01a8c0@codex>
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There's a small amount about the forthcoming Kaldor City CDs in DWM this
month, in the Gallifrey Guardian news section (p. 4). There's a photo of
Russell Hunter and a VOC robot head, and mentions for Paul Darrow, Brian
Croucher, Peter Tuddenham, Chris Boucher, Scott Fredericks and Peter Miles.
Alan begs me to point out that the first CD will be out in the first
quarter of 2001, but I couldn't possibly advertise.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:30:43 -0400
From: "Doraleen McArthur" <d.mcarthur@worldnet.att.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Neil's conspiracy theories (was Typesetting preferences)
Message-ID: <000201c02968$153f9540$4df25a0c@oemcomputer>
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From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
>
> It's quite possible that I'm superimposing the film over it.
I like both the book and the movie (of _The Princess Bride_ - there,
context restored) but they're very different. The movie succeeds by
stripping away the, umm, what to call it - metastory, maybe? - that anchors
the book.
--Katie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:44:25 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Introduction
Message-ID: <001401c02973$c0820c20$64ee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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Katie wrote:
>Oh, tell me I'm not the only person in the world who finds "Terminal" more
depressing than "Blake". For some reason I spend all of "Terminal" thinking
"Good-bye, Zen; Good-bye Liberator; Good-bye Cally; Good-bye curling iron
guns; sniffle..." While in "Blake" I spend most of the episode thinking
"no, you idiots! Don't do it!"
You are not alone. I Hate "Terminal". It has a much greater sense of
finality than "Blake". They all may have survived the shoot out in "Blake".
After all, at the end Avon's still standing, the other Scorpio crew can be
merely stunned and Blake's stomach wound doesn't need to be fatal.
In "Terminal" we have the irrevocable loss of Liberator (somehow Scorpio's
loss doesn't cause the same feeling of emptiness) and that's followed by
Cally's death in "Rescue". Terminal/Rescue is my least watched tape, even
Stardrive/Animals gets less chance to gather dust. [Well, I like the
beginning of Stardrive, when they collide with that asteroid :-)]
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:53:37 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Anna
Message-ID: <200009281353_MC2-B504-A3B3@compuserve.com>
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Sally wrote:
>I do get the feeling she had a personal loathing
>of Servalan, and that led her to over-focus on the =
>latter as the source of all 'evil' and the main obstacle
> to her plans. She made the one mistake Blake didn't
> (of course, Blake made quite a few others :-)) of =
>*not* realising that the individual Power-That-Be's =
>doesn't matter, that killing Servalan (or holding her =
>prisoner) was of no use whatsoever if the machine
> was still entrenched.
No, that's the very theory which she argues against. It's the others who=
don't get it:
HOB: Servalan IS the Federation. Kill her and it's over.
SULA: You're not really that naive, are you?
HOB: I'm speaking for the others. It's what they believe.
And probably one of the reasons they believe it is that Chesku and his li=
ke
keep spouting stuff about "our inspiration, our unity, our leader,
President Servalan", but I incline to the notion that the more Chesku say=
s
something, the less Anna believes it.
If it's so obvious to all of us that a one-off kidnapping by a small,
single group could never change the system, why assume Anna was so stupid=
that she missed it? She has to have another card to play, even it she
doesn't tell the rebels what it is. One that I've toyed with is that
Servalan has access to some sort of nuclear button (more likely to be und=
er
the President's personal control after the destruction of Star One) and
that Anna can threaten the rest of the Federation that she'll use it if
they don't give way. Or she has allies who will come in only if she
succeeds with Stage One. We're reminded, too, throughout the episode, th=
at
there was an earlier uprising which has only just been crushed - she may
have contacts with many more rebel groups than Hob's and be hoping for so=
me
sort of popular support (she's hardly got enough of them on site for a
People's Council).
One other thing: Servalan wasn't supposed to be the only hostage - large
numbers of VIPs were expected to arrive at any moment for the dinner to
celebrate the crushing of the resistance. If Grenlee hadn't got the
warning out, they should all have walked straight into the trap. This
might not have bothered an ambitious general very much if there was nothi=
ng
else to stop him bombing Residence One, but if there was any reason to
hesitate it strengthened her hand.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:29:21 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and princess brides
Message-ID: <000201c0297c$c8632c40$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Murray <mjsmith@tcd.ie>
> You've made a good point about fantasy films, particularly the ones you
> mentioned by name. That said, I liked 'The Princess Bride' because I
> thought that it was a good fantasy film, with the emphasis on romance and
> comedy. To be fair, it wasn't intended to be satrical.
True, and I think that's where it fell down, at least on the comedy front.
Without any firm sense of direction, the film became just a platform for a
random sequence of jokes, most of them not terribly good (I was especially
diasppointed with Peter Cook's bishop. Peter Cook as a bishop ought to be
outrageously funny, but it wasn't). I'd like to have seen more of a
deliberate parody of the fairy tale genre, as Terry Gilliam did with
'Jabberwocky' (another rather dull film punctuated by moments of absolute
hilarity, like the knights playing hide and seek).
Thinking about it, my Ideal Fantasy Film would have a lot of elements in
common with my Ideal B7 Movie. In particular a sense of a coherent,
consistent background that makes you believe that events are happening in a
beleivable other world (or galaxy, for B7). A consistency of design in
things like props and costumes helps enormously here, but some designers
seem to view SF/F as an excuse for over-indulgence.
Star Wars, at least the first three, pulled this off pretty well, IMO. The
sequels built on the groundwork laid down by the first, expanding and
enriching the background without introducing any significantly jarring
elements. Even the ewoks fit in, however much I hate the scabby
flea-infested vermin. B7, on the other hand, wasn't nearly so consistent,
even with episodes from the same writer (does TWB really belong in the same
universe as Duel? I don't think so). Doctor Who had almost none at all,
though that was almost a fundamental premise of the series' concept.
Fantasy films also tend to spring a series of fantastic rabbits out of a
hat, with little thought as to how all of these disparate wonders lock
together in a plausible social, economic and political whole. I'd like to
see a fantasy movie that tries to achieve just that.
I'd also like to see (or rather hear) believable, unaffected dialogue,
preferably laced with plenty of wit and cynicism and a smattering of
in-world slang (there was a bit of this in B7, like Chris Boucher's use of
'slime' as a euphemism for 'shit'.) Humour should come *out of* the
characters and situations rather than being imposed *on* them (the latter
can work for parody, especially self-parody, but not something that takes
itself seriously. And a good fantasy film should take itself seriously,
though perhaps not earnestly).
I'd be definitely put off by any plot that revolves around saving the
world/galaxy from some external inimical Evil, especially if it's a
straightforward Good vs Evil herofest where the good guys win out against
totally unreasonable odds with seconds to spare. Exhilirating it might be,
but it's also crap.
On the fantasy-specific front, I'm definitely one for grim, gloomy,
Gothic/Teutonic, with lots of chainmail. Give me Siegfried over Hercules
any day. Chainmail doesn't really belong in my ideal B7 vision, nor really
the Gothic bit, but grim and gloomy certainly.
The hardest part in both cases is fitting in the penguins.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:00:21 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and princess brides
Message-ID: <002c01c02981$2abfb260$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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good fantasy film... hmmm.. time bandits...
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:24:49 +0200
From: Natasa Tucev <tucev@tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re:[B7L] Anna
Message-Id: <200009281924.VAA22933@Tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sally wrote:
She made the one mistake Blake didn't (of course,
>Blake made quite a few others :-)) of *not* realising that the individual
>Power-That-Be's doesn't matter, that killing Servalan (or holding her
>prisoner) was of no use whatsoever if the machine was still entrenched.
This is an interesting question. The Federation is a dictatorship.
Dictatorships usually have a dictator at the top. The death of a dictator
usually marks the beginning of the end for a dictatorship (or at least its
weakening). On the other hand, Servalan is not a 'charismatic leader' type
(such as Stalin, or Orwell's BB, for instance) and the Federation's power is
not embodied in any particular individual, but in Central Control/Star One
and in the military in general.
Natasa
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:42:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "rita d'orac" <orac@inorbit.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] VAT (was Zine Bindings)
Message-ID: <383553863.970170174967.JavaMail.root@web302-mc.mail.com>
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Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com> wrote:
>But I presume that if you reclaim it, then you also have to charge it?
(That
>would rather defeat the object of keeping costs down)
Yes, but you would not need to charge VAT on zero rated items such as
magazines, books and newspapers. VAT chargeable and VAT claimable have
separate definitions. This may make it worthwhile registering if your sales
are mainly zines and other printer materials, but it would be a less
clear-cut decision if you also sold Vatable items such as tapes & CDs.
If you're not sure what counts as zero rated, check out the webiste of HM
Customs & Excise (a bit difficult to navigate through, but the answer will
usually be there somewhere):
http://www.hmce.gov.uk/
Hope this helps Judith/Tavia/anybody else, but feel free to email me if you
still want a bit more help (I think the lyst might be getting a little bored
with VAT...? <g>).
rita d'orac
"If you think of this mouse as a space captain..."
http://www.vilaworld.com
______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:17:15 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and princess brides
Message-ID: <078001c02980$c8bbfdd0$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Neil wrote:
> I'd be definitely put off by any plot that revolves around saving the
> world/galaxy from some external inimical Evil,
You're not going to like the LOTR movies then?
> Chainmail doesn't really belong in my ideal B7 vision, nor really
> the Gothic bit
Apart from that piccie of Cally.
> The hardest part in both cases is fitting in the penguins.
They always find a way, the little slimes.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:19:52 +0100
From: "DragonFly" <dragonfly@pond65.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Dates of First Broadcast
Message-ID: <003e01c029ee$0b838da0$a748883e@oemcomputer>
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I am trying to obtain the dates on which each of the episodes were first
broadcast. I have all dates for the first two series but I don't have any
dates for the third and forth series...can anyone help.
Oh I'm off to see Dear Brutus on Sat. 7th October - Next week!!!!!!!
Julia - Loughborough.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:39:21 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Anna
Message-ID: <LAW-F190DVXLuSbh29c00006681@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Harriet wrote:
<No, that's the very theory which she argues against. It's the others who
don't get it:
HOB: Servalan IS the Federation. Kill her and it's over.
SULA: You're not really that naive, are you?
HOB: I'm speaking for the others. It's what they believe.>
Yes, and then she goes on to say ...
"Alive, Servalan can order her forces to disarm. Alive, Servalan can
announce that she's standing down in favor of the People's Council, which
you and the others will lead. Alive, Servalan can hand over power. Dead,
she's just one more corpse."
All of which indicates an overriding belief that Servalan's command to
disarm will be effective. I don't believe it will. Anna's not stupid, but
she is ignorant in *military* matters or high-level *totalitarian* politics
(she was trained in the secret police, remember - aka Gestapo, KGB - she
would be used to working very much alone. And from their talk, and Anna's
bitterness, I shouldn't be surprised if Chesku kept his trophy wife right
out of anything and everything where she could develop political nous or
influence. Maybe that's why she *enjoyed* killing him so much. {This bit is
of course totally uncanonical but fun - as a character, I prefer Chesku to
Anna]).
<She has to have another card to play, even it she doesn't tell the rebels
what it is.>
Then why doesn't she seem to take any precautions against possible alarms
etc? Did she assume that everything *would* go so perfectly that there would
be no need for a back-up force in case an alarm got through (as it did?)
Why, if she has contacts outside, was there apparently no effort to get them
to hold off any counter-attack? From the period between Greenlee's dying
call for help and the very speedy arrival of Servalan's forces it's clear
that *they* weren't impeded in getting there. So if Anna had back-up forces
they were clearly either totally inadequate or blithely ignored the most
obvious source of danger to their plans ...
If she had another card, it appears to have been a joker, with the joke on
her.
<We're reminded, too, throughout the episode, that there was an earlier
uprising which has only just been crushed - she may have contacts with many
more rebel groups than Hob's and be hoping for some sort of popular support
(she's hardly got enough of them on site for a People's Council).>
Oh, I agree with this point, I think Anna definitely was expecting some
support from outside once she had Servalan hand over power. I also think -
given that she waits until *after* the rebels on Earth have been crushed and
the military/civilian repression is back in full swing - that that comes
under the heading of wishful thinking. Again, this isn't stupidity, but it
is blinkered.
<One other thing: Servalan wasn't supposed to be the only hostage - large
numbers of VIPs were expected to arrive at any moment for the dinner to
celebrate the crushing of the resistance. If Grenlee hadn't got the warning
out, they should all have walked straight into the trap.>
But any half-way-decent plan would have allowed for the probability (almost
a certainty) that an alarm *would* go out (after all, Greenlee and Forres
are actually rather remiss by not hitting the alarm button as soon as they
realised they were under attack).
Anna isn't stupid, but - like every character in this wonderful series of
ours - she does have her moments of jaw-dropping stupidity. And her fumbled
part in Rumours is actually, wonderfully B7 - just as Avon and Vila are so
totally unsuited to the roles of rebel heroes :-), as Servalan is so totally
unsuited to the role of President, so Anna is actually unsuited to the role
of coup leader.
Obviously JMO ...
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:26:29 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and princess brides
Message-ID: <00e301c029a3$800fc8a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
> Neil wrote:
>
> > I'd be definitely put off by any plot that revolves around saving the
> > world/galaxy from some external inimical Evil,
>
> You're not going to like the LOTR movies then?
Well, it *was* in the book...
> > Chainmail doesn't really belong in my ideal B7 vision, nor really
> > the Gothic bit
>
> Apart from that piccie of Cally.
Different kind of gothic, as well you know. Now give it a fish and tell it
to shut up.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:26:42 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and princess brides
Message-ID: <00e401c029a3$833b8d20$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Alison Page <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
> good fantasy film... hmmm.. time bandits...
Yup, it was good, but not the kind of fantasy I'm on about.
'Fantasy' is a problem term, since it can mean many different things, with
plenty of scope for misinterpretation. The type I'm talking about here is
actually quite narrow - a story set in a world that is not unlike our own at
some point in our past, but yet is not our own and has no connection with
it. This is the stuff of LotR and rpgs like ADnD. Yet, though Tolkien is
amazingly popular (Book of the Century, remember?) and his second-rate
imitators fill the shelves in bookshops, and the rpg market -
fantasy-dominated, as I've already remarked - is sizable, there are
surprisingly few films made in that genre. The Conan dirges, Hawk the
Slayer, Krull (though that had SF leanings), a spate of cheap'n'nasty
releases in the early 80s, of which The Beastmaster was probably the best,
Red Sonja ... perhaps a few others. Oh yeah, a nasty piece of Boormanskraft
called Legend.
Non-qualifiers include Time Bandits (time travel through our historical
past), Princess Bride (frame story set in the real world, and references to
real world places in the fantasy text, eg Australia), Ladyhawke (not
actually seen it, though I understand it has firm real world connections),
Excalibur (one of my favourite films, but firmly set in the real world and
drawn from real world legends), anything to do with Robin Hood (though the
design work on Robin of Sherwood was exactly what I'd like to see),
Xena/Hercules, and Harry Potter (when that makes it to the big screen).
Which just goes to show I'm a tough bugger to please and I've only got
myself to blame.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:30:56 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Neil's conspiracy theories (was Typesetting preferences)
Message-ID: <00e501c029a3$851185a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: <B7Morrigan@aol.com>
> > Seen it twice, actually. Enjoyed it, but can't say I loved it.
>
> Inconceivable!
What? That I've seen it twice, that I enjoyed it, or that I didn't love it?
> > They're only worth watching to see if the bird gets her kit off.
>
> And here I was thinking your hobby was watching the ones with feathers...
They're the ones I actively go out looking for. I think I've got my
priorities right.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:07:52 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Introduction
Message-ID: <00e701c029a3$87078940$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: Jeroen J. Kwast <jeroenkw@gns.getronics.nl>
> Make that 3! I think Terminal is so depressing that I skip the tape it is
on!
I like Terminal because it *is* so depressing.
Neil the Happy Chappy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:19:30 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dates of First Broadcast
Message-ID: <00e801c029a3$88712b60$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: DragonFly <dragonfly@pond65.fsnet.co.uk>
> I am trying to obtain the dates on which each of the episodes were first
> broadcast. I have all dates for the first two series but I don't have any
> dates for the third and forth series...can anyone help.
From Tony Attwood's Programme Guide:
3rd Season
Every Monday for 13 weeks from 7th January 1980 to 31st March, except
Children of Auron which went out on Tuesday 19th February. (I don't know
why it went out a day later. My diary from that time doesn't say anything.)
4th Season
Every Monday for 13 weeks from 28th September 1981 to 21st December. Hey,
19 years ago today.
Hope that helps
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:52:09 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, freedom-city@blakes-7.org
Subject: [B7L] A:ATA
Message-ID: <f5.3222964.27055dd9@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I know someone mentioned in the last few months that she (or he?) was trying
to find a copy of Avon: A Terrible Aspect. There's one up for bid on eBay
right now. The auction is:
Blake's 7 Seven and Prisoner PB Lot
Item #451301179
A:ATA is offered with two paperbooks from "The Prisoner."
Morrigan
Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 04:42:06 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon (was: Rumours of Death question)
Message-ID: <LAW-F2614RoapFmUv6F000066e0@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Joanne wrote:
<Well, he isn't referred to as the Snarly One for nothing ...>
Yes, but do admit, for someone with all the overt charm and social graces of
your average Centauran mega-scorpion-with-teeth, he seems to inspire a
startling amount of ... errr ... regard (even affection, if one uses the
correct rose-coloured glasses) in a number of his crewmates. Not that any of
them would probably like to have to explain *why* ...
<There may be other minor unspeakablenesses (coining words now...) that
weren't shown on screen!>
Now now, Joanne - one does not want one's Fantasy Object infected with any
unpleasant realities, thank you. Fixating on how pretty he looks with his
eyes closed (those eyelashes, mmmmmm ...) is not as much fun if one mentally
add buzz-saw-SFX.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:48:21 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Welcome back
Message-ID: <gAve6BA1o105Ewp9@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <18.2d1bc2a.2703e08d@aol.com>, B7Morrigan@aol.com writes
>Julia,
>
>Nice to see you back on list; we missed you. I hope the move wasn't too
>stressful. Welcome to the US - and no, not everyone is a lunatic though
>sometimes it does seem that way, especially when driving.
>
Haven't actually moved permanently yet - this is a preliminary trip to
get some things sorted out (and see my husband for the first time since
Easter). The permanent move is after the house is sold and I get my H4
visa, which I *hope* will be before Christmas.
Currently thrashing around trying to get access to the News.CIS.DFN.DE
free news server, in the course of which I discovered that the version
of my software on this computer is three years old and won't talk to it
until I upgrade. I'm so glad this is a mailing list and not a
newsgroup...
--
Julia Jones
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:05:06 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and princess brides
Message-ID: <20000928.232805.-88579.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:00:21 +0100 "Alison Page"
<alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> writes:
> good fantasy film... hmmm.. time bandits...
>
Ladyhawke, Labyrinth, Death Takes a Holliday (a bit pretentious, but it
works), The Court Jester (it had a witch), The Devil and Daniel Webster,
Beauty and the Beast (Disney's, the French version, and the TV show).
What else? So long as I've thrown in TV, Gargoyles, Dungeons and
Dragons, Alf Tales, Buffy, Angel, and Early Edition, and a lot of
Twilight Zone episodes.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:55:12 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Anna & the nature of love
Message-ID: <20000928.232804.-88579.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:40:30 +0100 Tavia Chalcraft <tavia@btinternet.com>
writes:
> Someone lost in the mists of time wrote:
> >I think the question of whether Anna loved Avon rather depends
> > on how you define 'love'.
>
> And a lot of wibbling ensued.
Question: What is wibbling?
That aside, back to beating the dead horse. Yes, I've known of people
who, IMHO, if they weren't capable of feeling love, did a very convincing
imitation. Yes, I've come across definitions of love that make me ill
(like ones based on pure lust [it's frightening the number of romance
novels where the characters are ready to run off with each other on the
basis of an relationship most people wouldn't consider lasting enough to
ask the time (no, I _don't_ read them, but the checkout line is too long
sometimes and there isn't much else to look at)]). However, I think love
is also like conscience. It's a powerful force but one whose input can
be overriden or even ignored. It's not an absolute.
Was Anna capable of it? I'm inclined to believe her line about letting
Avon go. Therefore, I'd probably say yes. OTOH, there are hints Chesku
once thought she loved him, too. We all know how that turned out.
> The fact that Avon -- who finds it hard to love, but certainly
> succeeded
> with Anna at least -- was drawn to these two women (and possibly
> also in
> some sense Blake) thus becomes rather interesting, and possibly
> masochistic
> ?
>
Hmm.
In Anna's case, I think she initially aproached him as assignment. She
obviously had a manipulative streak. At least in the beginning, she was
looking for the best way to manipulate him. Just as obviously, she
succeded.
For the other two, part of it is that Blake appeals to the idealism Avon
would sooner die than admit he has (actually, that he may _not_ have -
but the fact that he keeps running into the fact that Blake's idealism is
real and that it can appeal to him is just as bad). Servalan, OTOH,
appeals to every ruthless pragmatism Avon claims to live by. The
interesting thing there is how she both attracts and repels him.
The thought of Avon lying on a couch explaining all his problems to a
shrink seems a little hard to imagine. Maybe, if it was like Search for
Spock, with Avon's memories and some parts of his psyche stuck in Vila
who _would_ talk about it.....
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:34:07 +0200
From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
To: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
Cc: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, spinlist@whitecrow.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and princess brides
Message-Id: <200009282234.XAA25835@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
[ Heading spin-ward... ]
> Fantasy films also tend to spring a series of fantastic rabbits out of a
> hat, with little thought as to how all of these disparate wonders lock
> together in a plausible social, economic and political whole. I'd like to
> see a fantasy movie that tries to achieve just that.
But then, this thinking is endemic in the role-playing origins, too.
Lew Pulisfer[1] muttered about the three Orcs in one room, and the bloody
great dragon in the next, and wondered (a) what the hell did the dragon
*eat*, down there, and (b) why wasn't it the Orcs next door..?
> I'd be definitely put off by any plot that revolves around saving the
> world/galaxy from some external inimical Evil, especially if it's a
> straightforward Good vs Evil herofest where the good guys win out against
> totally unreasonable odds with seconds to spare. Exhilirating it might be,
> but it's also crap.
Thing is, that's hard to get away from, from SF/F[2], to Bond[3], with every
action film[4] going in between.
As Una pointed out, Tolkien's[5] queered this particular pitch. It needs a
reinvention, badly. Preferably by Gilliam[6] or Burton[7]. Unfortunately, the
spectre of LOTR is going to spawn a series of pathetic Tours[8], when what
we really need is something that's character-driven.[9]
steve
[1] Best of White Dwarf, yonks ago.
[2] The Fifth Element, say.
[3] Destroy Silicon Valley (View to a Kill), Oil Supplies (World is Not Enough),
Gold Supplies (Goldfinger), etc.
[4] Deadly contagions (Outbreak), Toxins (The Rock, Airforce One), Bombs
(The Peacemaker), etc.
[5] Book of the Century, mainly because it's the only book most people have
read. That's what they think fantasy is, period.
[6] Time Bandits, Brazil.
[7] Batman, Sleepy Hollow.
[8] The Rough Guide to Fantasyland, Dianna Wynne Jones. You *will* visit
every sodding place named on the Map at the start of the book.
[9] Namely, anything by Guy Gavriel Kay, or someone like Mary Gentle or
Sheri Tepper.
------------------------------
Date: 29 Sep 2000 08:25:43 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] OFFTOPIC Re: Fantasy, satire and princess brides
Message-ID: <86r963lno8.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>> "Alison" == Alison Page <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> writes:
> good fantasy film... hmmm.. time bandits...
"Chinese Ghost Story". But it's based on Chinese myth, so it isn't
fantasy enough for Neil. Same goes for "Mononoke Hime" (except that's
Japanese myth).
Rutger Hauer has been in two halfway decent fantasy movies,
"Ladyhawke" and "Flesh and blood".
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"...a festering realization that all you do is no more than the futile
slapping of paint onto the rotting, decayed infrastructure of the
Information Superhighway." -- Jinx_tigr
------------------------------
Date: 29 Sep 2000 11:02:54 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] OFFTOPIC Re: Fantasy, satire and princess brides
Message-ID: <86zokrbmf5.fsf_-_@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>> "Neil" == Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes:
> a story set in a world that is not unlike our own at some point in
> our past, but yet is not our own and has no connection with it.
That must be one of the most flawed definitions of fantasy I've ever
seen. How can a world at the same time be "not unlike our own at some
point in our past" yet have "no connection with it"?
Even if you chose interpretations of "unlike" and "connection" that
are wide/narrow enough to make the definition make some sort of sense,
it throws out works that are generally agreed to be fantasy. For
example, Tanith Lee's World Fantasy Award winner "Death's Master" gets
thrown out, because that world is nothing like our own at any point in
time (unless you weaken "like" to the point of being totally
meaningless), and Donaldson's series about Thomas Covenant gets thrown
out because Covenant _comes_ from our world.
If you're a bit picky with the "connection" stuff, Lord of the Rings
goes as well, since Gandalf and most of the dwarves appear in the Elder Edda.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"Just about anything can be done if you are demented enough."
-- Christopher C. Petro, scary.devil.monastery
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:48:07 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Introduction
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.0.20000929114535.009d9df0@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 15:42 28-9-00 -0500, J MacQueen wrote:
>>From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
>>Hmph, just another bloody amateur.
>
><grin> Now there's a slogan. For someone...
I'm going to think about that and if I decide that it means what I think it
means, someone's going to be spending a long time in the comfy chair. With
the teletubbies and the karaoke.
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:50:11 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Introduction
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.0.20000929114824.009db7d0@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 06:31 28-9-00 +0100, Una McCormack wrote:
>Jacqueline wrote:
>
> > At 07:59 28-9-00 -0500, J MacQueen wrote:
> >
> > >>From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
> > >>and a demand for great wodges of cash.
> > >
> > >Ooh, that's what I call paying for your sins. I think GITHOG have just
> > >found a Jacqueline-without-Tellytubbies equivalent.
> >
> > Hmph, just another bloody amateur.
>
>The Teletubbies are indeed a cruel and unusual punishment, but I prefer the
>straightline simplicity of extortion.
There's something to be said for that, I suppose. It's the results that
count, after all. But there's no reason why getting those results shouldn't
be fun...
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:02:03 +0100
From: Russ Massey <russ@wriding.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fantasy, satire and princess brides
Message-ID: <LCM2hBA7xE15EwVL@wriding.demon.co.uk>
In message <00e401c029a3$833b8d20$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>, Neil
Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>Yet, though Tolkien is
>amazingly popular (Book of the Century, remember?) and his second-rate
>imitators fill the shelves in bookshops, and the rpg market -
>fantasy-dominated, as I've already remarked - is sizable, there are
>surprisingly few films made in that genre. The Conan dirges, Hawk the
>Slayer, Krull (though that had SF leanings), a spate of cheap'n'nasty
>releases in the early 80s, of which The Beastmaster was probably the best,
>Red Sonja ... perhaps a few others. Oh yeah, a nasty piece of Boormanskraft
>called Legend.
>
You might like 13th Warrior. To quote the blurb on the DVD:
"Antonio Banderas brings huge star power to an immensely thrilling
action-adventure. An exiled ambassador far from his homeland,
Ahmed (Banderas) comes across a fierce band of warriors who are
being attacked by ferocious creatures legendary for devouring all
living things in their path! And when an old fortune teller warns the
combatants that they are doomed to failure without a 13th warrior,
Ahmed is given no choice but to join their battle and help conquer the
mysterious enemy!"
Fortunately the film is *much* better than the above makes it sound.
Ahmed is a sybaritic Arab poet who was made ambassador to the
court of Kiev after an embarrassing incident at court. He encounters a
group of raiding Vikings and is forcibly adopted by them when they
return North to defend their homes against 'troll' attack. Initially all
the Viking dialogue is in Norse, but Ahmed gradually, over a period of
weeks, begins to pick up the language and occasional words and
sentences become understandable until finally we hear all the
communication as English. It's very well done. The combat scenes are
also excellent. It's a bit like a Dark Age Magnificent Seven, and there
are several plot holes that made me go 'But...! (frex - how come these
trolls live in the bleak mountains caves and have become unseen myth
for decades yet somehow manage to have a herd of several hundred
horses?) but overall it's a nice, bleak, grungy real-world fantasy.
>
--
Russ Massey
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #272
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