From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #256 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume00/256 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 256 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7- religion [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ] Re: [B7L] Confession [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ] Fwd: Re: [B7L] Confession [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ] [B7L] Awkward phrases (was Sara = 54 [ Andrew Williams <AWilliams@daikin.c ] Re: [B7L] Confession [ Tavia Chalcraft <tavia@btinternet.c ] Re: [B7L] Awkward phrases (was Sara [ "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au> ] [B7L] Update on Rare and Out Of Prin [ Bizarro7@aol.com ] Re: Re [B7L] New zine - submissions [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ] Re: [B7L] Confession [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ] Re: Re [B7L] New zine - submissions [ Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> ] [B7L] Fwd: Returned mail: Host unkno [ Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> ] [B7L] Forgot to change subject line [ Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> ] Re: [B7L] Jenna's Skills [ Kai V Karmanheimo <karmanhe@cc.hels ] [B7L] Penguins (was Fwd: Returned ma [ "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.co ] [B7L] To Heck or not to Heck [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:27:29 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7- religion Message-ID: <20000910.230723.-80919.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:55:48 +0100 "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes: > From: Dana Shilling <dshilling@worldnet.att.net> > > But I think that it's a basic human impulse to wonder about > cosmogeny, and > > to try to derive ethical principles for conduct (other than > "ooops, it's > the > > slave > > pits of Ursa Prime if I get caught"). Intelligent and thoughtful > people > have > > come up with very different answers to the questions, but I don't > see how > > the > > Federation could stop people from asking. > > Same way any other intellectual hegemony does it - encourage people > to ask > while denying them any certainty in their answers. > Actually, I suppose the Federation does it by promoting an attitude of ridicule and condescension towards any and all religious belief. You know, ignore the fact that the educated had known the world was round for ages before Columbus and promote the idea that he was the man of science who proved the supersticious fools who believed it was flat were wrong. Push the idea that every social evil that ever existed was based in religion, that all supposedly religious people are afraid to think for themselves, suffer from major hang-ups as an inevitable result of their beliefs, or are either hypocrites or nut cases. Oh, and definitly encourage people to think science and religion are incompatible and, when differences of opinion arise between the two, that science is _always_ right (for the record, my mild persecution complex comes from kindergarten and developed more from things like not having grown as much as I might have [and this and other shortcomings not going as unnoticed as they might have by bigger kids], but I also became sensitive [maybe even somewhat paranoidly and hair-triggerishly so] to this kind of bullying in almost any context). ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:41:05 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Confession Message-ID: <1a4e01c01bbc$65082c90$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morrigan: > Some time ago, I confessed that I had actually doubted the word of Una when > it came to the John Muir book. I swore then that I would never doubt her > again. Gnog jumped on that vow and asked my opinion of Animals. At the time > I had not ever seen Animals and was able to sneak out of answering the > question. > > I watched it last night. > > I did not hate it. [Various air-punching victory dance style stuff] See! > I'm actually a little bit worried by all of this.... Welcome to my world. Una ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:04:07 GMT From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Fwd: Re: [B7L] Confession Message-ID: <LAW-F29XMw9uNCxkQWh000030dc@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Morrigan wrote: <I had not ever seen Animals and was able to sneak out of answering the question. I watched it last night. I did not hate it.> <snip> <I won't put it in my top 10 of course, but I'm not sure I'd put it in the botton 10 either.> Wellllllll ... probably on sheer quality (or lack thereof) it would get there (though not in the bottom 5, it's still better than DOTG or Power or Stardrive). But in my personal list, me neither. Rumours, DeathWatch and Sand are technically much better episodes, but I like them less (won't say dislike because when I think about it, there *are* only 7 episodes I actually dislike. Traitor, Sand, Chrildren of Auron, Dawn of the Gods, Moloch, The Keeper, Power and Stardrive. Others I may not actually like/love/absolutely and besottedly adore, but that's different.) Animals could have been worse. Give me a few months and I'll work out just how ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:47:46 +1000 From: Andrew Williams <AWilliams@daikin.com.au> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Awkward phrases (was Sara = 54124) Message-ID: <4103E830BB67D211877400A0247B635E34E12B@dialup49.actonline.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Marian wrote: >What does feel out of place to me is Vila referring to "Judgement Day" in >Horizon. I feel that Vila's remark in Harvest, "They don't take (too?) kindly to scrumping on Kairos", is hideously out of place. It's all too Billy Bunter and Jennings & Derbyshire etc. Andrew. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:21:10 +0100 From: Tavia Chalcraft <tavia@btinternet.com> To: 'Lysator mailing list' <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Confession Message-ID: <01C01BD1.BBFF27F0.tavia@btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morrigan wrote, re 'Animals': >I watched it last night. ... I did not hate it. Whilst I do put it bottom of my list, I don't actually hate it. I'd rather watch it than many other things. >... I thought that Og >and the other creatures were some of the better B7 creatures-other-than-human. I agree. Og and his compatriots were not on my list of dislikes. B7 is so poor at creatures-other-than-human (moon discs and sopron being about the only two I liked). Tavia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:15:06 +0930 From: "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au> To: "Andrew Williams" <AWilliams@daikin.com.au>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Awkward phrases (was Sara = 54124) Message-ID: <003901c01bd4$f848a120$cec326cb@marina> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew wrote: >I feel that Vila's remark in Harvest, "They don't take (too?) kindly to >scrumping on Kairos", is hideously out of place. It's all too Billy Bunter >and Jennings & Derbyshire etc. > Im sorry, but what is 'scrumping'????? or shouldnt I ask? <VBG> Min.xxx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:19:05 EDT From: Bizarro7@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, freedom-city@blakes-7.org Subject: [B7L] Update on Rare and Out Of Print Zine Auction Message-ID: <50.aac7354.26ee19a9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The first round of zines has rolled off. The following zines are currently up and some of these will be ending today. There are only one copy of each of these available; come and have a look before they are gone for good! http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/ashton7/ DESPERADO RETURN OF THE SEVEN #3 B7 INTERVIEWS DOWN AND UNSAFE #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ORBIT #1, 4 AVON #1, 2, 7, 8 FAITH, HOPE & CHARITY LEDGE BETWEEN THE STREAMS B7 BEHIND THE SCENES (Terminal) HORIZON #4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 14, 15 STAR ONE THE WEB #1 BROTHER OF SHADOWS IMAGININGS #1, #2 AVON ONLINE MAGIFICENT 7 #1, 2, 5 LONE STAR NEW HORIZON #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 POWERPLAY #1, 2, 5 HORIZON NEWSLETTER #19, 20, 21 Leah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:28:17 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net> To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: Re [B7L] New zine - submissions wanted Message-ID: <00c901c01bfc$cebd60c0$6b684e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil said: > > > >PS Where is Onan? I can't find it listed in my atlas. Do you mean that > >big deserty bit on the corner of the Arabian peninsula? It's the very self-reliant one that doesn't accept imports. -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:42:54 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com> To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Confession Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0911074254-b49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Mon 11 Sep, B7Morrigan@aol.com wrote: > Some time ago, I confessed that I had actually doubted the word of Una when > it came to the John Muir book. I swore then that I would never doubt her > again. Gnog jumped on that vow and asked my opinion of Animals. At the time > I had not ever seen Animals and was able to sneak out of answering the > question. > > I watched it last night. > > I did not hate it. > > Actually, I thought it better than some other episodes and I thought that Og > and the other creatures were some of the better B7 creatures-other-than-human. I've always had a soft spot for Og. I even wrote a filk song for him. (I'd post it here, but I'm too sore to dig out the file right now. It's on the filk section of the web site though) He looks so mournful and certainly looks more believable than some of the 'tribal' human extras. JUdith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:47:13 GMT From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Re [B7L] New zine - submissions wanted Message-Id: <200009111747.SAA06238@smtp.uk2net.com> Responding to my onanism question, Neil wrote: > PS Where is Onan? I can't find it listed in my atlas. Do you mean that > big deserty bit on the corner of the Arabian peninsula? And Dana wrote: > What if the new frame captures encourage us to scatter our CDs on the > ground? Deuce. Ms Shilling to serve. Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net NEWS - CHEAPEST DEDICATED SERVERS IN THE WORLD - 29/month UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:10:54 GMT From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: lsyator.liu.se: host not found) Message-Id: <200009111810.TAA06481@smtp.uk2net.com> > Judith wrote: > > > I don't let Vila use that word at all as tends to smack of Cockney and I've > > never thought of Vila as Cockney and tend to wince at the occasional story > that > > takes him excessively far in that direction (one or two American writers - not > > you - have taken Vila down the Dick Van Dyke road and there is no greater > > sin...) (well, no greater sin apart from making Avon collapse in floods of > tears > > <grin>) I'm sure you didn't mean this literally but I am full of visions of Vila as one of the children in Mary Poppins (or "Maori Perpins" as Dick Van Dyke would say), with his hand trustingly in the chimney-sweep's, being led off down the Dick Van Dyke Road into one of those weird fantasy sequences (with penguins, Neil, if I remember rightly, which I may well not - I saw Mary Poppins in teh same week as two other "nanny" films - The Omen and The Hand That Rocks the Cradle - and I get them confused) It'll be pink asteroids next. Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net NEWS - CHEAPEST DEDICATED SERVERS IN THE WORLD - 29/month UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:35:14 GMT From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Forgot to change subject line Message-Id: <200009111835.TAA06756@smtp.uk2net.com> Aha! One of the disadvantages of not having default reply-to being the Lyst: people like me screw up typing the name in, get the mail returned, forward it back with the right address, and forget to change the subject line. Sorry about that. I can't even remember what the right thread was. (Anyone who remembers the nightmare of returned-mail from my address on the Other List - don't worry, this isn't not my server f*cking up again. Promise.) Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net NEWS - CHEAPEST DEDICATED SERVERS IN THE WORLD - 29/month UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:28:23 +0300 (EEST) From: Kai V Karmanheimo <karmanhe@cc.helsinki.fi> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Jenna's Skills Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0009112216290.21291-100000@kruuna.Helsinki.FI> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Tavia wrote: <Whilst what you say is self-evidently correct, the _Liberator_ is frequently featured as being more manoeuverable than the smaller slower pursuit ships -- they frequently seem to manage to outmanoeuver them simply by flying in between (eg Hostage?, says she trying to think...). Not sure what's going on here> Though the Liberator obviously is an agile for a ship of its size, I can't think of a single example where they obviously outfly their opponent (perhaps in "Harvest", but the ship isn't necessarily moving at its maximum speed then, rather in a dogfighting situation Tarrant would try to bleed off speed in order to outturn an opponent). Speed remains their main weapon. My comment about the Liberator's manoeuvrability being affected by its greater speed was to mainly point out that speed has its drawbacks, and the faster things get, the harder it is for both the attacker and the defender. Actually, in "Hostage" though they jink a bit between the pursuit ship groups, I'm not sure whether they are actually turning within them (apart from that moment just before they slip into the ionised particle cloud), rather they are just barely managing to avoid them, their forward velocity keeping them just ahead of the opposition. When they run headlong into the ambush, Blake actually tells Jenna to maintain their present course and increase speed, just boring right through the enemy line without trying to evade (which would probably be too late in that situation, and would only present the attackers with a larger target cross section), minimising the enemy's attack window and gambling that the force wall will hold against the blows that find their mark. The pursuit ships fail to close the line because their attack is based on a prediction of the Liberator's speed that is inaccurate, the finely calculated attack run failing to compensate for the increase in ship's velocity (the Federation obviously doesn't know the Liberator's exact performance envelope). It's speed that wins the day, not manoeuvrability. Then again, it's all pretty vaguely presented, so who can say for sure? This is just my reading of it (the problem with reconstructing battles for military historical analysis is that for some reason the stupid buggers who actually fight the battles often appallingly neglect to record an exact and detailed chronology of the events transpiring, which is most annoying and shows great inconsideration for all the scholars who want to understand these things). Kai ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:43:03 EST From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Penguins (was Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown etc.) Message-ID: <F149FyfL1QMaCAP6KiM0000934f@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> >It'll be pink asteroids next. No, never mind Vila (for now), it'll be you reminding me of the giant, albino penguins in one of Lovecraft's stories. Why, or rather how, did I get the impression that shoggoths resemble dark-coloured, malevolent versions of the bright green *thing* from the Doctor Who story The Creature from the Pit? Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:29:30 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] To Heck or not to Heck Message-ID: <20000911.232931.-94579.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having accidentally deleted the post I meant to reply to, here goes the reply anyway. Yes, I know heck is one of those cases of sanitized swear words. Flip is a little different since it has a seperate meaning than the word it may be considered to sound like and 'What the flipping heck?' besides actually being in use in some quarters makes more sense than certain other profanities since, taken literally, it states a situation is such that even certain areas not usually considered very susceptable to shock would be reeling in disbelief. I actually do talk this way. What can I say? Just call me a hick at heart and proud of it. It also has a certain shock value (that the more offensive stuff lacks) simply by being so uncommon. I will admit, the shock value might be a little much even for me if Avon started saying these things (but then, they're Americanisms and [with few exceptions] geographically limited ones at that). Vila or Gan maybe (OK, with Gan, no one would even blink), possibly even Jenna, _maybe_ (depending what planet he'd been on and what his motives were) even Blake, but not Avon. As for Han, his "Then I'll see you in h---" comment could fit several religious backgrounds (imagine it from the Viking viewpoint, for example). The others could just be general translations of cursing, I guess, although Star Wars has enough theology to support arguments for a Good Place and a Bad Place in a hereafter (also a few arguments against, but let's not go there since I don't see much potential for a B7/SW crossover I could get into [Emperor: Avon, give in to your hate, give yourself to the Dark Side. Avon: All right [shoots at Emperor Servatine, misses. Hits Darth Blake instead. End of series] ). Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #256 **************************************