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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 184
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference
Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status
Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference
Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status
[B7L] Creations
[B7L] Zenith
[B7L] Paul Darrow
Fwd: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Other peoples mail
Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender
Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision)
Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision)
Re: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Fwd: [B7L] Creations
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Creations
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Creations
Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes
Re: [B7L] ZENITH IS HERE...
Re: [B7L] [Off-topic] Greco-Roman comedy
Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Re: [B7L] Re: Women we like
DotG back story [was Re: [B7L] Fav episodes]
Re: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:22:55 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes
Message-ID: <0dea01bfe274$c82d02e0$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Harriet wrote:
> Neil wrote:
> >My least favourite Narnia saga too, as it happens, though
> >I think it's the overt Christian propaganda that puts me off.
>
> So what's your favourite Narnian episode? Mine is The Silver Chair.
Me too, Harriet. Especially after seeing Tom Baker as Puddleglum (the only
redeeming feature in those whole ghastly BBC productions). 'The Magician's
Nephew' would probably come a close second.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:19:50 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference
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Jacqueline:
> At 18:45 29-6-00, Iain Coleman wrote:
>
> >I could happily burble on at much greater length about that, but I'm
> >afraid I don't have time right now. Get me a beer sometime and I'll
reveal
> >all.
>
> That's three beers in all that you've managed to get out of us before
> redemption has even started.
Don't worry, Jacqueline. Iain can be easily distracted in a pub. All you do
is point at a window and shout, 'Look! Sinofar!' and then run away to the
bar when he looks away hopefully.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:28:51 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status
Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000630102558.00a8d140@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 14:45 29-6-00, Nyder wrote:
>I think the Daily Mail would call Vila workshy
I think even Vila would call Vila workshy. That doesn't turn him into an
example of the "working class". He's more like someone who uses "working
class" status because he thinks that that'll keep him from being held
responsible for anything.
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:21:45 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000630112110.17161B-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
> At 18:45 29-6-00, Iain Coleman wrote:
>
> >I could happily burble on at much greater length about that, but I'm
> >afraid I don't have time right now. Get me a beer sometime and I'll reveal
> >all.
>
> That's three beers in all that you've managed to get out of us before
> redemption has even started.
That's the first hour sorted, then.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:01:36 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status
Message-ID: <008c01bfe28b$062542e0$df099ad8@cgorman>
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From the keyboard of Jacqueline Thijsen :
> At 14:45 29-6-00, Nyder wrote:
> >I think the Daily Mail would call Vila workshy
>
> I think even Vila would call Vila workshy. That doesn't turn him into an
> example of the "working class". He's more like someone who uses "working
> class" status because he thinks that that'll keep him from being held
> responsible for anything.
>
Yes, and when he gets the oppotunity to do something he likes and it good
at, he can put a lot of effort into it. Like in City or in
Seek-Locate-Destroy. Nothing gets Vila working harder than when he's in
danger himself.
Steve Dobson.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:54:29 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Creations
Message-ID: <0f6801bfe2ab$93f364b0$0d01a8c0@codex>
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I've been slow answering these - sorry. It's much easier just to fire off
frivolous responses to other people's frivolous remarks. Having to think
about what I'm writing is too much for this cat.
I wrote:
> I'm going to argue that B7 was a Chris Boucher creation rather than a
Terry Nation one
Neil responded:
> It depends what you mean by creation. As far as I can gather, the
original
> concept was all Nation's (all but the bits he pillaged from elsewhere,
like
> Robin Hood and the Dirty Dozen and Huxley etc, which actually adds up to
> quite a lot of the original concept). Boucher refined and redefined it,
not
> least through writing some of the most important episodes, but I wouldn't
> say he created the series as such.
>
> Depends on what you mean by 'creation', I s'pose...
Fiona countered:
> In defense of Nation-- Pillaging doesn't count.
<snip>
> but there's nothing new under the sun. It's not whether the
> concept is original, it's what you do with it.
It's not so much the pillaging I was thinking about - Boucher was as much a
pillager as everyone else: look at all the lines he'd lift from westerns.
I'll freely admit that the concept is Nation's, but your point is right,
Fiona. It's not the concept, it's what you do with. This is where I think
Boucher's influence is absolutely key.
Iain sums up very well:
> Obviously, there's a clear sense in which Terry Nation was the creator.
> However, if we ask about what makes B7 unique, about who created that part
> of the show that is distinctly its own and differentiates it from any
> other TV space opera, then it has to be Boucher.
Absolutely, and this is not just because I think Boucher wrote what are, to
me, definitive episodes ('Blake', 'Star One', 'Rumours' etc). It's because
of the job he held throughout the production of the show. As script editor,
Boucher pretty much had the final word on *all* the scripts that went out.
This would mean that *every single episode* would be subjected to Boucher's
touch. I'd bet my bottom dollar that most of those one-liners that people
love from even the crappier episodes are the result of Chris Boucher's red
pen.
Moreover, there are several occasions when scripts were running under and
Boucher wrote more material (uncredited) to bring the episode up to the
right time length (is it 'Breakdown' or 'Bounty' - or both - that's the
classic one here?). I wonder if there any other examples from later seasons
when Boucher basically had to rewrite an entire script so that is was
suitable for the show.
Terry Nation had limited input on the show during season 3, and none across
season 4. The producer (the other person who really would have significant
impact on a show) changed between seasons 3 and 4. Directors were BBC staff
who were brought in for individual episodes. Only Boucher was there
throughout the full 4 season run.
It's interesting to remember that Bob Holmes was offered the job of script
editor on B7. I'd argue that the show would have been *completely* different
if he'd accepted, rather than suggesting Boucher to Maloney. What would a
Bob Holmes B7 have been like? 'Gambit' meets 'Raffles' is my bet.
Incidentally, I think 'Survivors' is terrific, is absolutely Nation's
creation, and that once he was off the show (season 3?), it was crap (except
for 'The Last Laugh'). Of course, maybe there was a really good script
editor there too... <g>
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:11:17 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Zenith
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0630071117-b49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Fri 30 Jun, Christine+Steve wrote:
> Fiona requested :
> >
> > You want to read my article in Zenith (plug, plug!)
>
> Ummm.... I would if I knew what Zenith was... and it was available in
> Canada. *s*
It's the trial issue of a B7 magazine and I can easily mail copies to Canada.
You can order it via my web site and pay by plastic.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:08:21 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Paul Darrow
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0630070821-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Fri 30 Jun, DragonFly wrote:
>
> this is going to sound a funny questions (and I am asking on behalf of my
> husband) does anyone know Paul Darrow's agent address or where he would
> write to him on business level?
You can write to Paul care of Ann Bown of the Avon club, 37 Byfleet Ave, Old
Basing, Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG24 7HR
She'll forward mail to him. (It's courteous to enclose stamps for return
postage)
>
> whats happening with the proposed film? not heard much about it lately.
Well, <grin> in the issue of the Avon club magazine that reached me last week,
it says that things are moving forward slowly. There's more detail, but I'm
feeling too grotty to type much today.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Fri Jun 30 20:44:41 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Fwd: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-Id: <200006301949.UAA32438@ns4.uk2net.com>
Someone (have lost track) re: Trial:
> >
> > I *like* the alien-- one of B7's few goes at doing a really alienesque
> > alien, and it wasn't as overdone as it might have been.
I like the alien because it's another fresh-out-of-drama-school moment. I find
it endearing. (And it's nice to see someone on B7 who does physical acting
rather than intense, broody closeups and clipped dialogue - not that I'd be
without those for the world... see below...)
> Neil/Una/Fiona:
>
> > > > There's also Thania, who definitely had the
> > > > Best Boots in the entire series.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest Hair
> > > <handbag>
> >
> > Handbags at dawn, McCormack! I shall rise to the defence of the Bimbo with
> > the Boots!
>
> I watched it back last night, just to make sure I wasn't being unjust. Trust
> me. Zits galore.
>
Zits or not, you've got me *and* Fiona to contend with now. Thania's chin is
above reproach.
Love,
Ika
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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:29:19 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Other peoples mail
Message-ID: <20000629.094845.-104627.1.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:45:13 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
> >
> Ellynne wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 09 Jun 2000 23:41:20 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Jessica Taylor wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was trying to think of
> > > > people for Cally and Vila but I got stuck, any ideas?
> > >
> > > Ellynne does a good Cally.
> >
> > I've been thinking about this and, despite some feelings some
> people have
> > towards Cally, think I can live with it. Cally probably is the
> one I
> > identify with the most.
>
> And I've been thinking about this, and it rather worries me that you
> might think my comment was intended as a dig. It wasn't.
>
No, no, no. I didn't take this as a dig. My first reaction was she _is_
the one I most identify with. Then I thought about the fanfic I did for
Kathryn's Staked Blake, in which Cally figures prominently, and had a
knee-jerk desire to point out this is NOT Mary Sue by another name. I'm
not so much self-conscious about the Cally comparison as I am incredibly
self-conscious about having written a nonflippant B7 story and getting
nervous about how it will be received (although Kathryn liked it, which
is a very good sign, I hope).
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
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Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
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------------------------------
Date: Fri Jun 30 20:51:51 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender
Message-Id: <200006301956.UAA32505@ns4.uk2net.com>
My e-mail messed up the other day and I inadvertently deleted a bunch of
messages, so I can't remember who said it, but it was something like:
"Servalan as a role model for women is like Himmler as a role model for
chicken farmers"
Which is a fair point, but I don't mean she's an inspiration because she got to
run a military dictatorship - um... Consider the difference between Servalan
and Margaret Thatcher for a moment, if you will. One of them, despite running
the country, remained firmly within a particular frilly-blouses-and-smart-shoes
safe, respectable-woman, self-presentation: Servalan, on the other hand,
despite being a fascist and not a good role model for anyone, messed about with
gender categories to an extent where it's not even possible to talk about
"masculinity" and "femininity" any more, through excessive clothing and a near-
constant (let's leave Harvest and Sand out of it for a moment) refusal to lapse
into any kind of traditional 'feminine' behaviour. She's not your typical femme
fatale at all - I've never seen a female character like her. (Actually, she
reminds me a bit of Jareth out of Labyrinth, which is great because I thought
you had to be a bloke to be that cool).
Not making much sense here, sorry.
Love,
Ika
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Date: Fri Jun 30 21:12:43 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision)
Message-Id: <200006302017.VAA32642@ns4.uk2net.com>
Gnog:
> But, you are correct, the main screen on the liberator does not display a
> direct optical image, but an image processed by the computer. As such it is
> equally likely to be inaccurate as any other information the computers
> present. I think what Jarvik is refering to is that he has an instinct that
> there is a conflict between the two forms of data (main screen and Zen's
> verbal report). [snip] On the whole this scene comes down to the theme of
> the episode. Servalan believes the direct output of the computer
> unquestioningly, and acts to minimise her personal danger. Jarvik interprets
> all of the information presented to him, takes into acount the human
> element, trusts his instincts, and takes calculated risks.
Ha! Ha! I *knew* it! Just because *we* know Jarvik is right doesn't mean he
actually has a likely chance of being right! (Sorry, the whole "I'm a natural
man" thing gets on my nerves. And as for the last time Servalan felt the sun of
a world on her skin, it was Aftermath and she was being semi-crucified by the
Sarrans. There's good reason for her to stay on her ship.)
>
> How about Servalan only stunning Jarvik, rather than killing him, and Jarvik
> joining the crew, set on overthrowing a Federation regime so cold, heartless
> and dependant on technology ? A three way struggle for control ?
I'm afraid I hate Jarvik more than anyone else in the B7 universe, so this
prospect fills me with cold shuddering. But, past the cold shuddering, I can't
see Tarrant trying to overrule him that much - too much FSA conditioning in
their pasts. What *would* be interesting to me would be the ex-Federation vibe
between them, and how that would affect the politics of the season.
If I got my hands on Jarvik, I would teach him some history. The human race has
been dependent on technology since we discovered fire. Just because computers
are harder to build doesn't make them qualitatively different. *Chimpanzees*
are dependent on technology. (Sorry, Jarvik makes me angry.)
> >(Also: can voice messages and images be transmitted faster than light in
> the B7
> >universe? How?)
>
>
> It appears so, but they do appear to travel at a FINITE speed. In the same
> way that the ship travels faster than light ? The signals do pass through
> real space (not other dimensions or temporary wormholes or hyperspace or
> anything), because they can be intercepted. But as well as how fast they
> travel, how do they get them to travel so far. What about loss, what about
> the divergence of the beam.
Basically, the whole communications system is a gift to fanfic writers, and I'm
not going to look it in the mouth. As it were.
Love,
Ika
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Date: Fri Jun 30 21:15:05 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision)
Message-Id: <200006302019.VAA32661@ns4.uk2net.com>
Sorry, I knew there was something else I had to say - Trish, I haven't been
able to read your message on this thread (my computer said "Error loading the
specified message from disc". I said "What?" and it said "What is not a
question. Kindly be more specific." Then I gave up.) Can you mail it to the
list (or just to me) again, please? Ta.
(PS and re: The Other List - I feel bad that I haven't commented on your story
after your help with mine - but I haven't got round to reading it yet. Among
the frenzied writing this w/e will be some frenzied reading - I'm looking
forward to it.)
Love,
Ika
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:34:20 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <001a01bfe2d2$93cabc50$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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Ika:
> > Neil/Una/Fiona:
> >
> > > > > There's also Thania, who definitely had the
> > > > > Best Boots in the entire series.
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest
Hair
> > > > <handbag>
> > >
> > > Handbags at dawn, McCormack! I shall rise to the defence of the Bimbo
with
> > > the Boots!
> >
> > I watched it back last night, just to make sure I wasn't being unjust.
Trust
> > me. Zits galore.
>
> Zits or not, you've got me *and* Fiona to contend with now. Thania's chin
is
> above reproach.
And above cleanser.
I notice, also, that no-one has leapt to the defence of Thania's greasy
hair.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri Jun 30 21:49:44 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Fwd: [B7L] Creations
Message-Id: <200006302054.VAA00178@ns4.uk2net.com>
Una:
> Absolutely, and this is not just because I think Boucher wrote what are, to
> me, definitive episodes ('Blake', 'Star One', 'Rumours' etc). It's because
> of the job he held throughout the production of the show. As script editor,
> Boucher pretty much had the final word on *all* the scripts that went out.
> This would mean that *every single episode* would be subjected to Boucher's
> touch. I'd bet my bottom dollar that most of those one-liners that people
> love from even the crappier episodes are the result of Chris Boucher's red
> pen.
I just wanted to say that in my house (currently a fan-only zone, hooray, we
got rid of the Thieving Skag Addict) if any good line comes up in an episode
which otherwise isn't popular, we turn to each other and say "Boucher" and nod
wisely. It may or may not be true, but the fan-construct "Boucher" is certainly
responsible for All Good Things about the show. (Although a lot of Terry Nation
episodes are among my favourites.)
>
> It's interesting to remember that Bob Holmes was offered the job of script
> editor on B7. I'd argue that the show would have been *completely* different
> if he'd accepted, rather than suggesting Boucher to Maloney. What would a
> Bob Holmes B7 have been like? 'Gambit' meets 'Raffles' is my bet.
Ooh, that would have been interesting. ("Gambit" is such a weird episode - I
*always* think it's Season 3, because it has that feel to it, and have to force
myself to remember that it can't be because Blake and Travis are in it.)
Another fantasy in my house is (for some reason) that Robert Holmes and Chris
Boucher were best friends and used to spend a lot of time drinking Earl Grey
and discussing B7 and getting good lines into otherwise naff episodes. God
knows why (probably the influence of the Whovian who started us off on B7 in
the first place) but we see RH as the second parent of the show, an invisible
guiding hand. (There are a couple of 'reasons', but these are more suited to
the Other List.)
Love,
Ika
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:27:10 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <7e.6fd2049.268e6aae@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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> I notice, also, that no-one has leapt to the defence of Thania's greasy
> hair.
Una, if she's a Marxist and wears coveralls, she may be Neil's dreamgirl...
Morrigan (aka Trish)
"I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. "
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:50:15 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Creations
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0630195015-199Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
When looking at Boucher's influence on B7, it's interesting to cross-compare
with Star Cops.
Devis has distinct shades of Vila and Kenzie makes me think of how a female Avon
might have been.
The overlap is by no means total, but comparing Box to Orac will give an instant
flash of recognition.
I've never felt Theroux mapped onto anyone in B7, but the relationship between
Nathan and Kenzie (honest cop, bent cop) did have shades of Blake and Avon as
the two developed a strong mutual respect over time.
Judith
PS. One of the more interesting bits of Attwood's B7 programme guide is the
interview with Chris Boucher.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 22:57:38 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <004f01bfe2de$e1377b70$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Trish:
> > I notice, also, that no-one has leapt to the defence of Thania's greasy
> > hair.
>
> Una, if she's a Marxist and wears coveralls, she may be Neil's
dreamgirl...
Oh *that's* where I've been going wrong! And there was I thinking no-one
could resist a Tory twinset and blue rinse...
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:04:54 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Creations
Message-ID: <005e01bfe2df$3ac84110$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Ika:
> I just wanted to say that in my house (currently a fan-only zone, hooray,
we
> got rid of the Thieving Skag Addict) if any good line comes up in an
episode
> which otherwise isn't popular, we turn to each other and say "Boucher" and
nod
> wisely.
Yes, we do that too!
> It may or may not be true, but the fan-construct "Boucher" is certainly
> responsible for All Good Things about the show.
An uber-Boucher, huh?
> Another fantasy in my house is (for some reason) that Robert Holmes and
Chris
> Boucher were best friends and used to spend a lot of time drinking Earl
Grey
> and discussing B7 and getting good lines into otherwise naff episodes.
Like Barry Letts and Terrence Dicks, who meet up for a chip supper every
week, bless.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:01:54 +0100
From: "Ariana" <ariana@ndirect.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes
Message-ID: <01a101bfe2e1$8c759ba0$bde407c3@ariana>
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From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
> > Neil wrote:
> > >My least favourite Narnia saga too, as it happens, though
> > >I think it's the overt Christian propaganda that puts me off.
> >
> > So what's your favourite Narnian episode? Mine is The Silver Chair.
>
> Me too, Harriet. Especially after seeing Tom Baker as Puddleglum (the only
> redeeming feature in those whole ghastly BBC productions). 'The Magician's
> Nephew' would probably come a close second.
"The Magician's Nephew" and "The Horse and His Boy" for me, though I agree
"The Silver Chair" was very good too -- and very spooky. I wasn't too struck
on Lucy, so the stories where she features heavily tend not to be my
favourites. Still, I indulged myself a few years back and read the whole
saga onto cassette for a library for the Blind. Which was nice.
Amazingly, the Narnia stories came recently up on another list I'm on. We
then branched off onto Watership Down -- hands up anyone who worshipped that
book as much as I did (first thing I wrote fanfic for!).
Ariana
http://www.alpha.ndirect.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:32:29 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: fav episodes
Message-ID: <007d01bfe2e3$15092e40$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Ariana:
> Amazingly, the Narnia stories came recently up on another list I'm on. We
> then branched off onto Watership Down -- hands up anyone who worshipped
that
> book as much as I did (first thing I wrote fanfic for!).
Yeah, I loved 'Watership Down'. And I love the cartoon film as well. I
wasn't keen on his other books, tho'.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:45:24 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Andy Hopkinson" <andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk>,
"Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] ZENITH IS HERE...
Message-ID: <000a01bfe2e4$36e28920$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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I just got my contributor's copy (shameless bias warning) and I have to say
it is great. The cover exceeds expectations (love the picture of Brian
Croucher on the back. Why isn't this man playing big-man-on-the-manor in
any of the recent spate of cockney-gangster films?). The articles, my own
efforts aside, are thus far excellent-- I haven't had a chance to get all
the way through yet as I got in around eleven last night, but Una's piece on
the Beeb is spot on, Judith's take on Collector's Lot provoked the odd
knowing chuckle, and I'm sure the other pieces will be as good.
To add to this praise, my flatmate, who is a non-fan and has never seen any
B7, borrowed my copy (before I'd had a chance to read it, the beggar) and
was equally impressed; said it was better than three-quarters of the
professionally produced stuff out there.
Let's have an Issue 2, Andy, please? Willing to help in any capacity but the
financial...
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:30:39 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] [Off-topic] Greco-Roman comedy
Message-ID: <01d601bfe2ee$3043b260$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Meredith Dixon <dixonm@pobox.com>
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:26:12 -0400, you wrote:
> >I thought it was on the way to the forum... but yes, I believe it was
> >based on Plautus. Very vague feeling the original play might be
> >"Pseudolus", but I can't remember ever reading any Plautus, so if someone
> >knows better...
>
> It is "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum", and it's based on
> the "Captivi".
At the risk of being ultra-pedantic, not to mention pointlessly so, I
believe the original Broadway production was called "A Funny Thing Happened
*to me* on the Way to the Forum".
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:33:24 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Message-ID: <01d401bfe2ee$2e19cd80$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Time to try and catch up on all those posts I would have liked to have
answered sooner. (Why has the Lyst suddenly exploded of late?)
Ellynne:
>But there's also the long standing
> tradition of the trickster in folklore or the jester in real life.
> Shakespeare lived in a rather dangerous time (producing the wrong play
> could get you sent to the hangman) but still wrote (quoting from memory
> and probably getting it wrong), "There is no slander in a licensed fool
> though he do nothing but rail." Jesters and fools were supposed to act
> as some kind of social safety valve, criticizing ironies in life and in
> individual conduct but often from within a context of overall social
> support.
Rather like the slave whispering "Remember you are mortal" in the general's
ear. Because that's what he was told to do.
Isobel:
<Early modern carnival is a case in point. It entertained through
subversion, with cross dressing, street parties, peasants as lords of
misrule etc. As Ellynne said it works like a safety valve. The ruling class
frequently joined in with street parties as if they were the same as the
lower classes. The carnival did on a number of occasions lead to riots and
major uprising, so despite the upper class
patronage, true subversion was never that far away.>
This is straying somewhat from the line I was taking, since a carnival is a
participatory event directly involving the people, whilst the Cheeky Cockney
archetype is an element within a media product (book, film, whatever)
produced for consumption by the people.
Dana:
<The Cheeky Cockney is also a lower-class figure who is supposed to be able
to really enjoy life, unlike the respectable bourgeois or the
responsibility-
laden aristocrat--compare with the id projections associated with black
people in the US. In other words, "we" don't have to do anything about
their situation because "they" are capable of enjoying life much more than
"we" do.>
Good comparison. Why does it bring to mind a certain song by Pulp (Alison
should know which one I mean).
Ika:
<Comrade, while I appreciate your analysis (as ever), I feel you are not
taking
a properly dialectic view of the situation, since Vila works, surely, as
both
the Cheeky Cockney who will deflect any effort to create an appropriate
class-
based critique, and the Holy Fool whose subversive interventions in class
relations may go some way towards making the inequalities visible.>
The two can work in tandem. The Cheeky Cockney does not deny the
inequalities, rather he is there to affirm their validity. He is not a
safety valve, but a salve for upper class guilt. He is created by the
ruling class, for the ruling class, and then foisted on the unwashed masses
as an example of what they ought to be like. His rotten lot has been
acknowledged, ergo nothing more need be done to improve it. This
trivialising misrepresentation, repeated with sufficient frequency, then
enters into society's perception of itself, establishing a tradition which
the lower classes themselves might end up perpetuating if only to gain
approval from above. In Britain, this treatment of the lower classes in
popular media was probably predominant until the end of the Second World
War, after which the traditional class boundaries began to crumble in
earnest. Vila might be regarded as one of the last of his kind, as created
by a child of that war.
Thank you, comrades, for expressing your willingness to question certain
aspects of the superior ideology's prevailing correctness. I did consider
issuing you all with a set of winter clothing and packing you all on board a
train to Siberia, but then I had a change of heart.
You're not getting any winter clothing*.
Neil
*(Yes, alright, I know, I nicked that one from Judge Dredd.)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:34:06 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Women we like
Message-ID: <01d701bfe2ee$31504060$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
> Neil wrote:
>
> > PS Do not trust the judgement of the one called Una. I once saw her
pull
> > some small change out of her pocket to buy a pint at the convention bar,
> and
> > what came out with her coinage? Fish bones and black and white
feathers,
> > that's what. Oh, how shamelessly does evil flaunt itself in its
> arrogance!
>
> Don't be ludicrous, Neil - I have never knowingly paid for drinks in my
> life.
So you don't actually know that you are an unwitting pawn in their grand
conspiracy? There might yet be some slender filament of hope for you.
Of course, as an unwitting pawn you could hardly be expected to know, could
you? Just keep your wits about you in future, and be extra cautious of
anything that shuffles.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:50:44 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: DotG back story [was Re: [B7L] Fav episodes]
Message-ID: <200006301951_MC2-AAD1-75DC@compuserve.com>
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Ellynne wrote:
>OK (warning, this may bore some people more than
> the original, but, hey, I like it).
and then went on to outline her backstory to Dawn of the Gods...
I'm overwhelmed... I think it's wonderful.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 01:14:10 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <021901bfe2f6$978d1120$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
> I notice, also, that no-one has leapt to the defence of Thania's greasy
> hair.
Thania is clearly a woman who views spotty chins and greasy hair in their
due sense of proportion, and I want her telephone number *now*.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:25:42 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Penny Dreadful" <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Message-ID: <000301bfe2e4$315a8520$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
> Well, since Alice has rejected me once twice thrice, what the hey [Penny
> falls on bended knee and proffers the yellow candy ring she has kept close
> to her heart through all the lonely disenchanted years] -- Fiona, will you
> marry me?
Ooh, this is so sudden...
<thinks>
All right-- but only if *I* get to wear the flightsuit and eyepatch at the
ceremony...
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:30:49 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Jacqueline Thijsen" <inquisitioner@wish.net>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Message-ID: <000801bfe2e4$3569a4c0$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
> At 10:47 29-6-00, Penny Dreadful wrote:
> >At 10:41 PM 6/27/00 +0100, Nyder wrote:
> >
> > >In *my* fantasy-football version they'd've kept Brian Croucher and
raised
> > >his salary.
> >
> >Well, since Alice has rejected me once twice thrice, what the hey [Penny
> >falls on bended knee and proffers the yellow candy ring she has kept
close
> >to her heart through all the lonely disenchanted years] -- Fiona, will
you
> >marry me?
>
> <bounce> <bounce> <bounce>
>
> Oh this is so great! Can I be bridesmaid? Can I, can I, please, please,
please?
Hmm, shall we allow this? Penny?
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:32:12 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <mistral@ptinet.net>, "B7 List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <000201bfe2e4$30a1e380$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: <mistral@ptinet.net>
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
> No, no, no! ;-) Nova was the exception, he was the cheerful
> baby-faced serial murderer, and we should all be grateful he
> wound up in the sealing gel, else he'd have knocked off the whole
> crew by 'Deliverance'.
Actually... one of my favourite SF novels, "The Sardonyx Net," which
revolves around a society in which the punishment for most crime is
enslavement, features a character who is a slave, in her late teens, and
very, very innocent-seeming and childish. The reader, along with the
protagonist, wonders what the h dash double hockey sticks she did to warrant
slavery-- right until the point at which we discover that she had been a
brilliant and uncontrollable thief... who had undergone a "brain-wipe." Nova
*could* have done something really nasty, and, given the Federation's
fondness for mind-altering technology, had it edited out of him.
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:28:05 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>, "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <000601bfe2e4$33cda800$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
> B7 was, of course, caught in the trap of being evening family
entertainment,
> so it had to follow the conventions of that time slot. In a way this
worked
> to the series' advantage, since it allowed the writers to allude to
> something darker and more realistic without splattering it all over the
> screen (which can be very effective, but also tends to be defused by its
own
> over-indulgence).
Yes, though one of the moments that most made me wince in the series was the
quick scene in Cygnus Alpha where Blake is dragged off, we hear a scream of
agony, and then see him later, visibly somewhat the worse for wear. It's
often more effective to put violence offstage, just like explaining a joke
kills the humour.
I agree about the evening family entertainment bit-- but I think that could
provide a good answer to the question of why our heroes weren't the most
believable as criminal masterminds.
> that Terry Nation wanted to dip his toes in dark waters but was too
hesitant
> to do so too often, while Chris Boucher had far less reluctance.
Hm. Might do an essay on that sometime, as I've heard that a lot and I love
taking on received wisdom...
Thanks Neil!
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:11:57 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>,
"Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Message-ID: <000401bfe2e4$3211a020$311086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
> From: Ellynne G.
> >Sadly, I think Blake saw himself more as a reformer than a revolutionary.
Not sure about that-- but Morrigan said it better than I could. On occasion,
though, I wonder if Blake *did* have a coherent platform or whether he was
just aware that the moment he crossed the line it was only a matter of time
before he was tracked down, and was just going to go down with as much fight
as possible.
> I might agree with the "removing evil from the healthy body" bit. But
> doesn't "healthy body" kind of suggest that the Federation, as such, is
not
> fundamentally evil, but rather a force for "good", that is suffering from
a
> degree of corruption ?
I tend to take the Chris Boucher line myself-- i.e. that it isn't inherently
good OR bad, but a degree of both. We do see lots of people who are
perfectly happy under the Federation, and to whom Blake etc. do more damage
than the Federation ever did; by contrast we also see a lot of horror. But
let's pull out a bit. Take the USA-- the most powerful country in the world,
third highest standard of living worldwide according to the Metro this
morning, generally agreed to have a political system which, for all its
faults, is much better than living under a totalitarian dictator. And yet
the murder rate is through the roof, large portions of it still allow
capital punishment (which is IIRC technically cruel and unusual) and the
government places economic sanctions on Cuba simply for having the wrong
party in power. Now let's take fascist Italy: a totalitarian dictatorship
and an unforgivable one, with a regime merciless to its opponents and
notoriously given to activities like chucking "degenerate" art out of
windows and deporting foreigners-- and yet I know of elderly Sicilians who
have (rather quietly) remarked that they were grateful for the rise in
living standards and the suppression of the Mafiosi.
I am not in favour of fascism or of totalitarianism of any sort, but I think
one can't characterise any regime as *inherently* good or evil. Even the
Federation.
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:19:02 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status/gender
Message-ID: <20000701101902.G2765@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 10:51:55PM +0000, Ika wrote:
> constant (let's leave Harvest and Sand out of it for a moment)
> refusal to lapse into any kind of traditional 'feminine' behaviour.
> She's not your typical femme fatale at all - I've never seen a
> female character like her. (Actually, she reminds me a bit of Jareth
> out of Labyrinth, which is great because I thought
> you had to be a bloke to be that cool).
What, she reminds you of Jareth from Labyrinth because she's cool, or
because he defies gender roles?
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat
\_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #184
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