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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 171
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator crew size
Re: [B7L] Episode reviews (was RoD)
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #168
Re: [B7L] Jelly Rebellion
Re: [B7L] Recruitment
shields up
Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Re: [B7L] Animals
Re: [B7L] Orac
Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Re: [B7L] Re: Animals (Was Josette Simon)
Re: [B7L] Uncut "Rescue"
Re: [B7L] Model of Avon and possibly Blake
[B7L] Interesting food (not jelly or Jell-O)
[B7L] Haunted Lives
[B7L] looking for Zelda
[B7L] crew
Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
[B7L] Gauda Prime
[B7L] the passing of a fan
Re: [B7L] Orac
Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator crew size
Re: [B7L] Animals
Re: Re: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Re: [B7L] crew
Re: [B7L] Gauda Prime
[B7L] Computer controlled combat
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 100 15:16:31 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" <jeroenkw@gns.getronics.nl>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator crew size
Message-Id: <200006221316.e5MDGZL32734@pampus.gns.getronics.nl>
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Hello,
> >>I think the Liberator was *supposed* to have enough people that one
> >>person could just stand there and press the button. 5-6 people do not
> >>make a full complement for a ship that size.
>
> I'm afraid that I have to disagree with you. The Liberator was built by the
> System, and was supposed to be crewed by Altas. From what we saw and heard
> about them in 'Redemption', they were beings with a lot of machine
> components, like Seven of Nine. Persumably, they would be directly wired
> into Zen; so a small crew of Altas would have had no problems in controling
> the ship. Of course, this begs the question as to why Avon, if he was such
> a genius, didn't adapt the system to cope with a fully human crew.
>
>
We can talk about this as much as we like but it just doesn't make sense to have the
forcewall button over there. It should be at one of the control seats!
The correct answer to this question falls into the same catagory as the way the
crew teleports down/up to/from the surface. (= random buttons/with or without needle/tread)
It is a shame they didn't pay more attention to these details.
Jeroen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:17:57 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Episode reviews (was RoD)
Message-ID: <003801bfdc4c$698348e0$40ee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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Jurgen wrote:
>Unfortunately I couldn't find the reviews of 'Orac' to 'Killer'. Haven't
they been added yet?
They have been written but not yet put up. 'Orac' to 'Weapon' should be
added shortly, the rest will follow in due course.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 05:30:45 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #168
Message-ID: <395206F4.6449C432@ptinet.net>
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Jacqueline wrote:
> Mistral, I know you like Vila, but did you really have to get into a
> contest with him about who could hit the most targets with the blasters?
Well, what else was I supposed to do? You wouldn't let me play
with Orac, and Vila was afraid to show me how to pick the lock
on Avon's cabin (I wanted to play keep-away with the teddy bear),
and then Sally beat me to all the good stuff in the wardrobe room.
It's not easy to find fuchsia leather catsuits, you know, especially
with matching black-and-fuchsia boots and gloves. Though I think
I'd have personally left off the black-and-silver headdress.
> Those poor people at station XF43 still haven't come out of their hiding
> places.
Now, that's not my fault. We were doing just fine until Una hit
that high note. Or was that Blake? I couldn't tell. Anyway, when
you're playing noughts and crosses, you just have to go for the
center square, don't you? I always play to win.
> Maybe you should send them some jelly to make it up to them. There
> was quite a lot of it lying around in the galley.
I don't think they'd want it after Vila and I rolled Avon and Blake
in it. We were only trying to show them how to disguise themselves
as Andromedans! I wanted to throw Neil in, too, but he wouldn't
co-operate. I can't understand why; it was lime, after all.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 06:13:40 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Jelly Rebellion
Message-ID: <39521103.BFB7EE80@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Susan Moore wrote:
> > Vila: Jelly and jam-jam?
>
> Do they keep jam-jam in Jar-Jar?
<groan> And I thought I was pushing it!
> > Blake: I'll stick to the jam tart, thanks. Sorry, Avon, but that was a
> > terrible aspic.
>
> And how long have you been planning this pun? Excellent work!!
Thank you, Susan, but I'm afraid that was a recycled pun; I used it
last year. Just seemed to belong, though.
Thanks everybody for the kind words.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:10:34 +0200
From: "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Recruitment
Message-ID: <002901bfdc4b$425fdd60$40ee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl>
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Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net> wrote:
>> begin Helen Krummenacker quotation:
>> > I think the Liberator was *supposed* to have enough people that one
person could just stand there and press the button. 5-6 people do not make a
full complement for a ship that size.
> This, of course, makes the whole "why doesn't Blake invite more people on
to his crew?" bit the more ridiculous.
Considering the trouble he had getting his small crew to do his bidding, he
can be excused for not bothering. :-) Besides, Avon, Jenna and Vila would
not be pleased with the addition of some dedicated, selfless freedom
fighters who would encourage Blake in his dangerous missions. I can see
those three working together to prevent any candidate from joining them.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 23:08:36 +1000
From: "Roger the Shrubber" <powerplay@cheerful.com>
To: "blake's seven" <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: shields up
Message-Id: <200006221412.AAA19874@vasquez.zip.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Steve K wrote
Consider also all computers that
need to be *told* to put the %$!"£ shields up when being shot at.
***
Perhaps they don't _really_ need to be told, but human self-preservation
being what it is, the flight crew simply don't 100% trust the automatics to
detect the incoming threat & react accordingly.
For example
Microsoft is pleased to announce Plasma Bolt Detector v1.0, incorporating
Shield Raiser public beta - Trust it with your life !
And when the time comes, how are they going to beta test Microsoft Teleport
Control Software build 937 for Windows 3000 ? And would anyone buy V1.0
when it was finally released ? Bugs ? You might actually turn into one !
darren r
A sense of superiority to the sufferer is a component of the human
experience of compassion.
-----------------------------------------
Life, liberty and the pursuit of property are the fundamental natural
rights and the social contract is made to protect these rights.
-----------------------------------------
Panic Disorder
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu Jun 22 16:03:15 BST 2000
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Message-Id: <200006221508.QAA21533@ns4.uk2net.com>
> At 07:34 PM 6/20/00 -0700, Sally Manton wrote:
> >After Marian wrote: <So I'm not the only one who dislikes that episode?>
> >
> >Lisa answered:
> ><I expect we're in a small minority, but no, you're not entirely alone.>
>
Penny said:
> When the Other List (the list of evil and chaos) was reviewing "Rumours of
> Death" (hereafter known as RoD) I was astounded at the amount of negativity
> and/or ambivalence expressed toward it, given that:
>
> (a) it's a vehicle for Avon
> (b) I am part of the miniscule and oppressed minority who are not Mad for
Avon
> (c) RoD is (up until that point I would have said "nevertheless") one of my
> favourite episodes.
>
> Now I wonder -- is RoD more popular among those who are *not* Mad for Avon
> than among those who are? Is it only popular among sappy sentimental souls
> like me (er, no offense Ika)? Una? U-u-una...
>
None taken.
Though I am Mad for Avon, I have to admit.
I quite like Anna Grant as well, once she loses the dreadful perm and stops
being a simpering git and turns into hardcore Federation chick with ambitions.
And it's a great Servalan episode. She is so brave...
(The one thing about RoD I do hate is the bit where they all walk in circles
round Shrinker going "Did they scream, Shrinker?" in a
drama-school-improvisation-exercise stylee. I know Josette Simon was only 5
minutes out of RADA, but still...)
Love,
Ika
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:22:51 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Animals
Message-ID: <20000621212251.79957.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Ika wrote:
<I was trying to watch S4 in order but my two mentors refused to watch
Stardrive & Animals with me, so I waited till they fell asleep in front of
Dawn of the Gods ...>
<gurgle>
Do we *all* have Valium episodes (as apart from just plain ones we don't
like?) I recall Betty saying that a possible convert fell asleep during TWB
on her ... I only recently managed to stay awake right the way through
Ultraworld, though I wouldn't call it one of my *most* un-favourite episodes
(and before anyone says it, no, Avon's sleepiness is not what sets me off,
since we get to see the eyelashes then and I always sit up for them :-)).
________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:25:18 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: B7Morrigan@aol.com, Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orac
Message-ID: <20000622172519.58732.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>Judith asked:
> >
> > Why does Orac give them the answer? Is Orac just a machine that must
>reply
> > to any question asked it? I think not (if Orac doesn't want to answer,
>it
> > generally involves a long argument to get your own way)
> >
> > Does Orac have any sympathies with the Federation? I doubt it. He had
>Ensor's
> > personality.
> >
> > Can anyone give me a convincing reason why Orac sells out the crew?
And Trish replied:
>I found that scene unusual for another reason. Servalan's fleet (you know
>the 8 ships that attacked Liberator and the 8 ships that retreated after 3
>of
>them were destroyed <g>) would use the information to threaten and attack
>the
>planet, therefore threatening Orac's safety. Usually that is one of his
>primary concerns, and often his loyalty to the crew is really self-serving.
>In this case, giving Mori the coordinates doesn't really endanger Liberator
>so much as it endangers those on the planet (Cally, Tarrant, and Dayna).
>
>I agree with Nick that Orac did like the challenge aspect, but wondered how
>Orac thought Mori and company would get it/him to safety. It may have
>calculated that its chance of survival was better if Servalan's threat was
>successful than if he remained in the hands of Federation officers while
>Servalan's fleet was destroyed. He miscalculated the planet's resistance,
>didn't he?
I was under the impression (I might be wrong - it's been a while) that the
Sardoans detected the approach of the attacking ship, that's how they were
able to activate their 'secret weapon'. Maybe Orac gave Mori the exact
co-ordinates that the ship *would* be detected on?
Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?"
________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:55:33 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>,
"lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Message-ID: <000101bfdc72$632ded80$0bc828c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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----- Original Message -----
From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
> well be the first step towards ending the holy Travis war...
Sorry... just picturing Brian Croucher in eyepatch, leathers, wings and
halo...
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:07:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Wendy S. Penberriss" <penberriss@yahoo.com>
To: Sally Manton <smanton@hotmail.com>, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Message-ID: <20000622180727.6396.qmail@web5203.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
--- Sally Manton <smanton@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Perplexed Penny asked:
>
> <Now I wonder - is RoD more popular among those who
> are *not* Mad for Avon
> than among those who are? Is it only popular among
I'll shamelessly admit I like RoD mainly for Avon
being all tough and all vulnerable by turns. The bit
where they're taunting Shrinker I liked for showing up
another difference between Cally and the rest of the
crew-- you'd think, having been tortured herself,
she'd be even less lenient with him than the others.
Maybe this is unusual for someone who's Mad About
Avon, but I like Anna. I wonder, was she the real
reason Avon is so cynical about idealists? Something
to think about in the scenes where he's arguing with
Blake early one...
Wendy
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:16:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Wendy S. Penberriss" <penberriss@yahoo.com>
To: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Animals (Was Josette Simon)
Message-ID: <20000622181648.24293.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
--- "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> wrote:
> If the aversion therapy was designed specifically
> for Aurons (say, this
> scenario has Justin as an exiled/defecting Auron
> scientist. What are the
> story implications if _he_ sold this to the
> Federation [which goes a long
> way toward explaining why it wouldn't work on
> him]?), this would draw
> another parallel between how Justin treats Cally and
> how he treats his
> experiments.
The aversion therapy thing actually was the part I
thought would have made the most sense for Cally not
Dayna. The thing that always bugged me the most was
how quickly the aversion therapy worked; if you're
going to brainwash somebody, it's got to take longer
than *that!* But if you were using some kind of
telepathic device-- whether from Auron or, maybe,
thought up by Federation scientists to use on Auronar,
then you could have a near- instantaneous change of
mind.
But you're right, I hadn't really thought about the
ethics of all that, or why Servalan smiled....
IIRC in the ending Justin wasn't supposed to die and
Cally was supposed to go off with him-- which seems a
bit more Doctor Who than Blake's 7 to me, but since it
didn't happen, it's a moot point.
Wendy
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:31:04 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Uncut "Rescue"
Message-ID: <39522328.BE7EA65B@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Going back a bit,
Julia Jones wrote:
> rita d'orac <orac@inorbit.com> writes
> >was rescue edited? just checked my tape & its says 2 uncut episodes.
>
> Yes, it was, whatever it might say on the box. The end of one scene was
> cut, changing its meaning, and a completely different take was
> substituted in another scene, again changing it.
Will someone please elaborate on this? I'd like to know what
exactly I'm looking for before I go comparing copies. Thanks.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:34:07 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Model of Avon and possibly Blake
Message-ID: <395223DE.7E5E0CE2@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Judith Proctor wrote:
> On Wed 14 Jun, mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
>
> > I should like a Vila, as well. And a Soolin. Actually I'd like
> > a whole set, but I'd *commit* to Vila and Soolin.
>
> Ah well <grin>, committing is what really counts.
Yes; but I've noticed my two posts on this thread arrived at
Lysator in reverse order. I'd sent the one about Vila and Soolin
*before* the subject of Jarriere came up; I'd commit to a
Jarriere as well.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:43:04 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Interesting food (not jelly or Jell-O)
Message-ID: <200006221444_MC2-A9C9-10DD@compuserve.com>
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charset=ISO-8859-1
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Neil revealed:
> I am actually quite partial to a peanut butter/lemon-
>and-lime marmalade sandwich.
Have you tried marmite on chocolate cake?
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:56:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Haunted Lives
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0622155603-c72Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Jacqueline Pearce is the guest star in Haunted Lives, the 6th Soldiers of Love
CD. It's her second appearance as Madame Deephole, a brothel owner.
I have a feeling that some of Jackie's male fans might enjoy this one...
The humour, as it usual for this series, is pretty adult. I'll quote just one
exchange to give you the general idea:
Major Grondlepuss: Well, I'll be blowed!
Madame Deephole: (smiling) It'll cost you, dear.
My eldest son found some of the conversations highly amusing. My youngest son
(fortunately) didn't get the jokes. (His favourite characters weren't in this
one, so he was rather disappointed - they'll both be back in number 7 though.)
For fans of the series, I can tell you that some of the different plot lines are
starting to come together and characters in different threads of the story are
joining up. One of the villain's motives has come to light - if you're sharp
enough to catch the reference. For all the smut and parody, there's some deep
plot in this series and it rewards the listener who pays attention. Even minor
details are sometimes relevent. It's to Mark's credit that I haven't caught a
single continuity error over 6 CDs. When I think I've found a mistake, such as
one character unexpectedly sounding like another on the current CD, Mark assures
me that there is a reason for it that will come out later on.
Perhaps the best point about this series is that it has high replay value. I
often go back and listen to earlier ones and often get some new insights into
the plot when viewing things in the light of what happens later.
I didn't find this CD as funny as some of the earlier ones - there were less
outright laughs. On the other hand, listening to it for the third time today, I
realised that I was smiling most of the time.
This is the first SOL CD with no songs on it. I didn't miss them.
Frag is growing on me greatly as a character. She's one of life's losers, fated
to never find the right man. Caelys is also a favourite, which is odd really as
he's the kind of brash young man whom I'd probably hate in real life!
Jackie gives a highly enjoyable performance and Madame D is a character I hope
to hear more of - and I think we will as she's getting more and more embroiled
in the plot. I have a feeling that we will have one or two interesting
revelations about her character...
Judith
PS. Fans of Jackie might want to know how this CD compares with The
Fearmongers. There are pros and cons. I think the Fearmongers has slightly
higher production standards and is a very good, straightforward, stand-alone
drama (enjoyable even if you aren't a Who fan). It's also suitable for all age
groups.
Haunted Lives gives her what I consider to be the more interesting part - I
enjoyed Madame Deephole in her first Soldiers of Love appearance, and was glad
to see her back again here. It allows us to see a bit more variety in what
Jackie can do as an actress, while retaining Servalan's sexual allure. However,
if you're offended by explicit adult humour (and I do mean explicit) then you
aren't going to like it at all.
Soldiers of Love is an ongoing series, and that's a drawback if you're only
interested in hearing Jackie (though earlier CDs have featured Jan Chappell,
Gareth Thomas and Michael Keating). On the other hand, there's several good,
brief recaps of the plot so far, so if you fancy jumping into the series part
way through, this might not be a bad place to try it.
If you're uncertain whether you'll like Haunted Lives or not, (and I find it
very hard to predict who will and who will not) then give it a go and if you
find that you don't like it, return it undamaged to me and I'll refund what you
paid (minus a quid to cover my postage costs).
PPS. Both CDs can be ordered via http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:56:52 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] looking for Zelda
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0622155652-339Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Tue 20 Jun, Sally Manton wrote:
> You can find one of Jarvik (looking immaculately smug and macho) in the
> Sevencyclopedia at
>
> http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7/SevenCyc/J.html
>
> There wasn't one of Zelda on the Z page yet, though there might be
> *somewhere* in the whole work, I'm still working my way through them.
If she's not under 'Zelda' then she won't be there yet. We tend to work through
an episode at a time, grabbing lots of useful pictures and then putting them
with the appropriate article (or occasionally writing it when we realise we
don't have one...).
It is worth checking through the unfiled pictures though (there's a load of
those with the Sevencyclopaedia) - they're a batch of ones we've grabbed but
haven't yet had time to sort - there's always a chance Zelda is among those.
The beastie keeps growing: new pictures, new articles.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:58:56 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] crew
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0622065856-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 22 Jun, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> begin Helen Krummenacker quotation:
> > I think the Liberator was *supposed* to have enough people that one
> > person could just stand there and press the button. 5-6 people do not
> > make a full complement for a ship that size.
>
>
> This, of course, makes the whole "why doesn't Blake invite
> more people on to his crew?" bit the more ridiculous. Sadly, we all
> know that the budget for the show did not allow for any more regular
> cast members.
Well, he did invite one or two people who declined.
Of all the people whom they met on their travels, who would you most like to
have joined the crew?
I'd nominate Levett from Mission to Destiny - brains and cool and not fazed by
Avon.
Though Sinofer might have been interesting - a ghost on board would have been
different (though I think Sinofer was bound to her native planet).
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:34:39 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Message-ID: <004901bfdc81$dfab4a60$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Ika wrote:
> (The one thing about RoD I do hate is the bit where they all walk in
circles
> round Shrinker going "Did they scream, Shrinker?" in a
> drama-school-improvisation-exercise stylee. I know Josette Simon was only
5
> minutes out of RADA, but still...)
Agreed. It might have worked if it had been filmed in some quasi-surreal
way from Shrinker's POV, complete with fish-eye lens overkill, but the way
it's done in the episode is just flat-out embarrassing to watch. Too
stagey. Was this written into the script by Chris Boucher or was it the
director's idea?
> And it's a great Servalan episode. She is so brave...
I think I may have mentioned before that one of my favourite moments in RoD
is the bit when the rebels are hammering down the door, and we see a rather
frail and frightened Servalan cowering in her office. But when the rebs
finally break through, she comes sweeping majestically across the floor. A
nice contrast between private and public faces (which can't help but remind
me of Prime Minister 'Kenny' in Radio 4's current satirical drama).
Neil
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jun 2000 12:57:35 -0700
From: "Bob Vinisky" <bobvin@europa.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Gauda Prime
Message-Id: <B577BDC4-1B0DF2@192.168.107.1>
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Hi all
I have been lurking on the list for some time now, just enjoying the
banter. I must, however, try to clear the air about the fate of Our Heros
on Gauda Prime.
Avon escaped!
Yes, its true. After escaping the trap (a flimsy trap, at best), he went to
the one place no one would ever look - Earth.
He went undercover in Argentina, changed his name to Guillermo Barros
Schelotto and is now playing football for the Boca Juniors in the Argentine
Clausera.
Don't believe me? Check out a picture I liberated :-) from TV coverage of
Boca's win in the Copa Libertadores (the South American version of the UEFA
cup, only better (g) )
http://www.europa.com/~bobvin/Alive.html
You be the judge
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:56:13 EDT
From: JEB31538@cs.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] the passing of a fan
Message-ID: <68.4c32ebb.2683c95d@cs.com>
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This morning Marion McChesney passed away. She was involved in many fandoms
over the years, and one of those fandoms was Blake's 7.
I had the pleasure of meeting Marion several years ago. She was a gracious
lady and a wonderful conversationalist.
In Blake's 7, she is mainly known for the seven POWERPLAYs. These are
genzines filled with good stories and great art, a lot of it by Suzan
Lovett. Suzan, also, wrote one of the best stories in B7 that I have ever
read, "The Road to Hell," and it appeared in POWERPLAY 1. I particularly
love Suzan's cover to POPWERPLAY 2, and I know Marion did, too, because she
was its original owner. I only just bought it from her last year.
IF you have POWERPLAY 2, may I suggest you turn to page 83 which has a
wonderful illo by Suzan and a poem called "The Nature of the Beast" by
Marion. It's an interesting poem and picture comparing Avon to a panther
and Blake to a bull.
Blake's 7 fandom was enriched by Marion McChesney and her POWERPLAYs. I
mourn her passing.
Joyce Bowen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:02:14 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orac
Message-ID: <395262B5.C9CC7F00@ptinet.net>
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Judith Proctor wrote:
> Did Orac have loyalties? I like to think he did, and for a story I'm trying to
> work out in my head, it may be relevent, but I keep running up against Volcano.
<snip>
> Why does Orac give them the answer? Is Orac just a machine that must reply to
> any question asked it? I think not (if Orac doesn't want to answer, it
> generally involves a long argument to get your own way)
It seems to me that whether or not Orac had loyalties hinges on
whether or not he is self-aware, which is arguable either way. He
certainly had complex enough programming to *appear* self-aware;
for me that's close enough, because I know I'd treat him as such.
But loyalties are complex things anyway, they're usually based on
something like friendship, mutual advantage, etc., and therefore
are approximable by programming (AI) routines. Just at a rough
guess, I'd say Orac's behaviour is generally governed by three
factors. First, a set of directives, with a hierarchy of fulfillment,
and they might include:
Run programs and answer meaningful questions as directed.
Protect yourself.
Protect your user.
Acquire and interpret data.
The hierarchy must be fairly complex, because those seem to
shift in importance from time to time. (No fair yelling continuity
gap!) Some of those directives are probably imperatives, and some
are 'if possibles'. I do think answer questions is an imperative,
(remember in Headhunter he tells Avon that he must do what
Avon says, even though he knows it to be wrong) but the
'meaningful' (first encountered in 'Orac') keeps Orac from
being bogged down with nonsensical questions.
The second factor would be that Orac shares Ensor's personality;
which appears to include, among other things, impatience, egotism,
irritability, and stubbornness. It's probably a function of personality
how much or little information he gives in answer to a question, or
how far he'll make the user jump through hoops before he'll admit
an order or question as meaningful. And it also probably has to do
with how interesting the question is in relation to whatever data he's
processing at the time, and whether it makes him look clever or not.
The third factor would be that Orac appears to have the ability to
learn. In 'Orac', he has to ask them to define terms; in Horizon, he's
asking Avon whether or not Avon's conjectures *are* questions; by
City, he's pointing out (rather perfunctorily, it seems to me) that the
word 'Well' is not a question. And one of the things I think Orac
learns is that Avon asks better questions than some of the others; he
might tell Vila to go away and get away with it, but not Avon, so he
just saves the time and gives Avon more leeway on 'meaningful'.
How does all this affect Orac's loyalties? Well, as long as he's on
the Liberator (or Scorpio, or at Xenon base), its safety is his safety.
He's also protecting his user. Also, it's possible that Orac knows
that he gets a lot more chance to explore and analyze data with the
rebels than he'd ever have if the Federation got its hands on him--in
which case he'd probably be running battle scenarios and doing
military and political surveillance until his chips wore out, or wind
up disassembled for research and duplication. So protecting the
rebels is self-interest, not very enlightened. Once Mori put Orac's
key in the slot, though, Orac had to answer the question (IMHO),
but I do think he would give the least possible co-operation.
OTOH, if you don't want to think Orac has to answer questions,
Mori's line 'Can you do that?' could function as effectively as an
appeal to Orac's (Ensor's) ego as Avon's challenge to shrink in Gambit.
Mistral
(who's either thought about this way too much or way too little)
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:08:49 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator crew size
Message-ID: <20000622210849.12478.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Murray wrote:
<a small crew of Altas would have had no problems in controling the ship. Of
course, this begs the question as to why Avon, if he was such a genius,
didn't adapt the system to cope with a fully human crew.>
<grin> he tried to. But every time he spent two hours re-jigging one of the
systems, the auto-repair saw it as damaged and 'repaired' it back to
original in six minutes flat.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:46:20 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
"Penny Dreadful" <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Animals
Message-ID: <000401bfdc72$667cca60$0bc828c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 12:01 AM
Subject: [B7L] Animals
> I gotta say I thought it was better than "Stardrive".
Ooh, handbag! *That's* a criticism if ever I heard one.
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:16:04 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Ika" <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Message-ID: <000201bfdc72$63dd6760$0bc828c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 2:34 PM
Subject: Fwd: Re: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
> boy - I think it's a replica of Michaelangelo's David - in their cupboard.
So
> far these are the only two nude statues I have noticed in Blake's 7, but
since I
> saw the David replica I've been keeping an eye out for them)
Good heavens. Now *I'm* going to start doing the same... though a
Michaelangelo nude struck me as, erm, more of a Krantor and Toise sort of
thing...
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:26:57 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Penny Dreadful" <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Message-ID: <000301bfdc72$64c863a0$0bc828c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
> At 10:54 PM 6/20/00 -0700, Sally Manton wrote:
>
> >Could one factor be what reaction we have to Anna/Sula?
>
> I am totally neutral on the character/portrayal of Anna, I swear.
Me too, frankly. At least she wasn't an utter airhead.
> I figure if Avon chose to throw his life away for her, *he* must have seen
> something in her.
Or not. I do rather like the idea that the one time Avon truly loved, he was
horribly mistaken.
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:47:32 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Penny Dreadful" <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Message-ID: <000001bfdc72$62648300$0bc828c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
> Now I wonder -- is RoD more popular among those who are *not* Mad for Avon
> than among those who are? Is it only popular among sappy sentimental souls
> like me (er, no offense Ika)?
To expand on what I said earlier:
a) I am decidedly NOT Mad for Avon.
b) RoD is not one of my favourites.
c) RoD is not one of my least favourites either, for all that. The
Avoncentric bits make me yawn, but I love those two troopers, and Servalan
oozes evil sexuality. So I guess I don't fall into either camp-- worth
watching every so often, but if I started making up a top-ten list it would
be well below Trial, Gambit, Blake.... mind you, it'd probably be above
Sarcophagus.
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:42:57 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RoD (was Animals)
Message-ID: <200006221443_MC2-A9C9-10DB@compuserve.com>
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Penny wrote:
>When the Other List (the list of evil and chaos)
>was reviewing "Rumours of Death" (hereafter
>known as RoD) I was astounded at the amount
>of negativity and/or ambivalence expressed toward it
I go through great mood swings with regard to RoD. At the time of first
broadcast, I fell for it hook line and sinker. Later I rebelled against
it, for being too romantic. Later I decided it was Countdown that was too
romantic, and RoD was the cynical sequel which was necessary to shatter
Avon's illusions. And it does have Federation politics in it, which is
always a plus (that's why I like Voice from the Past, quite apart from Avon
in a black shirt grabbing Blake). And I adore Anna (one of the mysteries
of life I sometimes sit and ponder is why Sally's attitudes to male
characters are so uncannily like mine - except that she likes Tarrant more
- when her attitudes to female characters are diametrically opposed). And
I like the idea of RoD as anti-romance (re any alleged lack of chemistry,
that would be totally realistic to me - meeting one's ex unexpectedly after
several years is usually rather embarrassing and awkward, even if you
haven't just worked out she set you up).
My vague impression is that it's most popular with Avon fans who accept
Anna.
My principal objection to it is that it's too popular. I like it, but
don't think it would be in my top five, not that I can remember which those
are after the first two (damn, Una may dig up the Q study now and tell me I
had it at number three... no, it's OK, I've still got my reply here, and I
had it as joint tenth!).
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:26:46 -0700
From: Nick Moffitt <nick@zork.net>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] crew
Message-ID: <20000622152646.H19259@zork.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
begin Judith Proctor quotation:
> Of all the people whom they met on their travels, who would you most
> like to have joined the crew?
I think Del Grant would have been quite useful, and would have
generated a lot of good dialogue with Avon. Would have made RoD far
more interesting.
Also, just for laughs, The Klute would have been fun to see.
I can just imagine him in his command chair, laughing gleefully and
firing the neutron blasters at federation pursuit ships.
--
CrackMonkey.Org - Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks
LinuxCabal.Org - Co-location facilities and meeting space
Pigdog.Org - The Online Handbook for Bad People of the Future
You are not entitled to your opinions.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:36:30 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Gauda Prime
Message-Id: <4.1.20000622163437.009a6c60@mail.powersurfr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:57 PM 6/22/00 -0700, Bob Vinisky wrote:
>You be the judge
Too young. I think it's a clone, or possibly Anna's secret lovechild.
--
For A Dread Time, Call Penny:
http://members.tripod.com/~Penny_Dreadful/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:47:08 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Computer controlled combat
Message-ID: <000101bfde1e$426eb540$8854073e@leanet>
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> It does annoy me that the 'battle computers' need so much human support to
> do their most basic tasks.
>Ah, well, all skiffy computers need an amount of instruction inversely
>proportional to the amount of processing required to program it in
>real life. Compare Star Trek's computers, that can not only understand
>human speech, plus nuances, but also work out who the hell the crew are
>referring to, with all the pronouns. Consider also all computers that
>need to be *told* to put the %$!"£ shields up when being shot at.
Some of the examples you are probably thinking about.....
We are treated to a vision of how Zen would conduct a battle in Volcano.
Avon more or less tells Zen to just blast them "When targets bear, fire
blasters" or something like that. Zen actually manages to hold of an attack
from more than the infamous "three" pursuit ships (quite good), but drains
the energy banks in so doing - leaving the Liberator vulnerable to, say, a
stray space chopper (very bad).
At the other extreme, we have the example from Kairos where the computers
are left to predict the whole shooting match, and fall foul of human
unpredicability. What computer would risk the odds of flying straight at the
obvious trap. The program would take an infinite time to run if you allowed
the battle computer to work out bluff and counter bluff (and double crossed
bluffs etc), so it doesn't.
In dual, Zen would never have tried to ram Travis, although it was,
apparently, the only way out.
The computers just don't seem to have that certain "something" programmed
in.
So basically, we are left to conclude that a battle computers artificial
intelligence (with the excpetion of Orac, who can't be bothered) (Oh yes,
and the System, which was so intelligent it took over everything) (Oh yes,
and Star One, which was so powerful nobody was allowed to ask it to do
anything) is still not sufficiently advanced to take risk, balance
probabilities and estimate resource implications.
Or was it that the computers all had limiters in them, to prevent a
reoccurance of the disaster that became the System. Perhaps the tariel cell
was something to do with the limiting function ?
Just some thoughts
Gnog
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #171
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